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Thread: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

   
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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Yes he's changed his mind because he heard of the Robson allegations.
    To most people, the higher the number of allegations the greater the chance of them being true and to be honest that opinion is difficult to fault. Take Jimmy Savile for example, he was never convicted in court but after his death a large number of victims came forward and alledged he abused them. Few people would seriously argue he was innocent. Even his own family consider him guilty now. People like to compare MJ with the 'profile' of an abuser, but the contrasts are clear to see. Now compare MJ, even 9 years after death only 3 new allegations have been made (if you include Jane Doe), all with the same lawyer and all with the same credibility issues. In fact Jane Doe has disappeared into the woodwork once again and will probably never be heard of again (except when trolls use her as 'evidence' in online debates). If MJ had abused kids over many years I'm sure there would have been a swarm of credible accusations within months of his death. In MJ's case we know the Robson/Safechuck allegations are difficult to be considered credible for a whole host of reasons that the alternate wouldn't have been told about I'm sure. Sadly they will always be considered victims by the trolls who will say that the only reason they didn't go to court is because of a technicality.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by MJTruth View Post
    Yes he's changed his mind because he heard of the Robson allegations.
    To most people, the higher the number of allegations the greater the chance of them being true and to be honest that opinion is difficult to fault. Take Jimmy Savile for example, he was never convicted in court but after his death a large number of victims came forward and alledged he abused them. Few people would seriously argue he was innocent. Even his own family consider him guilty now. People like to compare MJ with the 'profile' of an abuser, but the contrasts are clear to see. Now compare MJ, even 9 years after death only 3 new allegations have been made (if you include Jane Doe), all with the same lawyer and all with the same credibility issues. In fact Jane Doe has disappeared into the woodwork once again and will probably never be heard of again (except when trolls use her as 'evidence' in online debates). If MJ had abused kids over many years I'm sure there would have been a swarm of credible accusations within months of his death. In MJ's case we know the Robson/Safechuck allegations are difficult to be considered credible for a whole host of reasons that the alternate wouldn't have been told about I'm sure. Sadly they will always be considered victims by the trolls who will say that the only reason they didn't go to court is because of a technicality.
    You know, Michael's treatment has led me to become extremely neutral when it comes to very public sex allegations. In no way am I drawing parallels between Michael and any of the people who were investigated as part of Operation Yewtree - I'm only indicating that I'm not immediately ready to join any bandwagon as a result of one, or many, mere accusation. As a result it bothers me that Saville never had a chance to defend himself or have a fair trial. And I found it irksome that some persons who were so afraid to speak out for decades were suddenly queuing up to speak on television in gory detail about their experiences.

    I'm not suggesting Saville was innocent nor am I suggesting any one of those people are liars - I don't know I haven't read into those cases enough to establish a well grounded opinion.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Fair enough. I too am very sceptical about any media reporting. Political, celebrity, environment. Anything. but I think it's true that there must be a 'critical mass' of allegations where the weight of evidence becomes compelling.
    In Saville's case it's not as if the accusers were all appearing on TV, nor did they try to sue anybody for money. They didn't appear to be making claims to sell a book or make money from other revenue streams. I don't believe there was any motive other than to expose their abuser.

    In MJ's case there are relatively few accusers, though by now the number is starting to sound significant. I don't believe the accusations but with Wade, Safe**** and Jane Doe added to the tally, trolls have a far easier time making against MJ. It's important to note that in EVERY case the accuser has been targetting MJ or his Estate for money. It could be the unhealthy litigation culture that exists in the USA but from a UK perspective their thirst for money devalues the allegations IMO.
    If Wade, Safechuck and Jane Doe had simply appeared on a TV show, made the claims and then gone back to normal life they would have been more credible. But to shop a book deal before the allegations are made public (Wade), or to join a civil case against the estate for the only reason of getting paid (Safechuck and Doe) raises serious credibility questions to anybody willing to scrutinise the allegations.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    I think it is notable that whenever the media tries to stir negativity around MJ regarding the allegations they never really use Robson or Safechuck, let alone Jane Doe. It's always some false story about "child porn" of a false story about "FBI files" or, as recently, name dropping Jordan Chandler. To me that is very telling of how (non)compelling the Robson/Safechuck allegations are even to the general public. If anything rather than adding more credibility to the allegations I think, in actuality, they add more cyncism and scepticism in the general public. Numbers aren't everything.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    for those who did not watch.. the only reasoning any jury member wanted to vote guilty was off of 'feeling' and believing Gavins + the video of him being questioned.. No actual physical evidence!

    Honestly it's a good show, anyone that were to watch it would side more so on MJ side than anything.. the only people that would take the guilty vote serious are those who are already fueled to hate on him.. and because it is JUST a vote of guilt by a feeling, it is easily dismissed.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post
    I think it is notable that whenever the media tries to stir negativity around MJ regarding the allegations they never really use Robson or Safechuck, let alone Jane Doe. It's always some false story about "child porn" of a false story about "FBI files" or, as recently, name dropping Jordan Chandler. To me that is very telling of how (non)compelling the Robson/Safechuck allegations are even to the general public. If anything rather than adding more credibility to the allegations I think, in actuality, they add more cyncism and scepticism in the general public. Numbers aren't everything.
    I agree. Robson shot himself in the foot with this one. It is much easier to see through him because he already testified under oath that nothing happened and is on record numerous times praising Michael. When Robson's allegations are reported on, I've noticed they almost always mention how he testified in 2005 that MJ didn't molest him. That kills the credibility of his current allegations immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    for those who did not watch.. the only reasoning any jury member wanted to vote guilty was off of 'feeling' and believing Gavins + the video of him being questioned.. No actual physical evidence!

    Honestly it's a good show, anyone that were to watch it would side more so on MJ side than anything.. the only people that would take the guilty vote serious are those who are already fueled to hate on him.. and because it is JUST a vote of guilt by a feeling, it is easily dismissed.
    Also agree. The show was decent and fair. As someone mentioned previously, the narration even seemed pretty "Pro-MJ." The way they presented the prosecution's evidence and then discussed how the defense invalidated them was a great way to execute the story. That might be the most information the public has gotten about what happened on the defense's team. I also was very impressed with the amount of background information they provided about Janet Arvizo. I was not expecting them to go that far. I think the show got the point across that she was a scammer. The discussion and reenactment of Gavin's interview with the police was a pivotal point of the show as well.

    Regarding Ray Hultman's "gut feeling": It's funny because he still agrees with their verdict and would still vote not guilty. I wonder if this guy hears himself when he speaks?


    Overall, good program, but there is room for improvement. I didn't think it was fair to cite Wade's allegations without any background information. But most of the jurors seemed to dismiss it anyway, which was nice to see. Also liked how they debunked the "porn" stories from last year.
    I've seen all of the ones that aired so far up to the George Zimmerman one and they all have been fairly interesting. If any of you haven't watched them yet, I recommend it!
    Last edited by Angel of Light; Yesterday at 09:23 PM.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by MJTruth View Post
    Fair enough. I too am very sceptical about any media reporting. Political, celebrity, environment. Anything. but I think it's true that there must be a 'critical mass' of allegations where the weight of evidence becomes compelling.
    In Saville's case it's not as if the accusers were all appearing on TV, nor did they try to sue anybody for money. They didn't appear to be making claims to sell a book or make money from other revenue streams. I don't believe there was any motive other than to expose their abuser.

    In MJ's case there are relatively few accusers, though by now the number is starting to sound significant. I don't believe the accusations but with Wade, Safe**** and Jane Doe added to the tally, trolls have a far easier time making against MJ. It's important to note that in EVERY case the accuser has been targetting MJ or his Estate for money. It could be the unhealthy litigation culture that exists in the USA but from a UK perspective their thirst for money devalues the allegations IMO.
    If Wade, Safechuck and Jane Doe had simply appeared on a TV show, made the claims and then gone back to normal life they would have been more credible. But to shop a book deal before the allegations are made public (Wade), or to join a civil case against the estate for the only reason of getting paid (Safechuck and Doe) raises serious credibility questions to anybody willing to scrutinise the allegations.
    And do not forget, these guys DEFEND Jackson for YEARS Wade DEFEDNED MJ even in COURT OF LAW. And anyone who to dismissed that is only a fool who just want to believe MJ is an abuser which makes them sick, NOT Michael. It is just wishful thinking.

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    Default Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel of Light View Post
    I agree. Robson shot himself in the foot with this one. It is much easier to see through him because he already testified under oath that nothing happened and is on record numerous times praising Michael. When Robson's allegations are reported on, I've noticed they almost always mention how he testified in 2005 that MJ didn't molest him. That kills the credibility of his current allegations immediately.



    Also agree. The show was decent and fair. As someone mentioned previously, the narration even seemed pretty "Pro-MJ." The way they presented the prosecution's evidence and then discussed how the defense invalidated them was a great way to execute the story. That might be the most information the public has gotten about what happened on the defense's team. I also was very impressed with the amount of background information they provided about Janet Arvizo. I was not expecting them to go that far. I think the show got the point across that she was a scammer. The discussion and reenactment of Gavin's interview with the police was a pivotal point of the show as well.

    Regarding Ray Hultman's "gut feeling": It's funny because he still agrees with their verdict and would still vote not guilty. I wonder if this guy hears himself when he speaks?


    Overall, good program, but there is room for improvement. I didn't think it was fair to cite Wade's allegations without any background information. But most of the jurors seemed to dismiss it anyway, which was nice to see. Also liked how they debunked the "porn" stories from last year.
    I've seen all of the ones that aired so far up to the George Zimmerman one and they all have been fairly interesting. If any of you haven't watched them yet, I recommend it!
    Well, there are plenty of people whose "gut feeling" told them Michael was innocent and all of this was a set up". So who is right? based on the evidence, it is the people who "gut" told them MJ was innocent. Look at George Zimmerman. His "gut feeling" told him to bother Trayvon Martin due to the steerotype about black men. He was WRONG and killed that teen and then LIED about it. When something is the truth, there bare no needs for lies or coverup. Same with that MJ juror. He was shopping for a book deal (I believe he has some "issue" in his private life. It never fail when people judge like this.

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