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Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?

jamba;3763237 said:
"you need to answer my question do you believe Thriller sold 40 million during the trial or all the numbers from 82 to 2006 including RIAA certificates were terribly wrong?"

I think we have a slight language issue here but I will say this, according to a book by Martin Gitlin (Baby Boomer Encyclopedia) the GB of WR certified sales of Thriller album worldwide in 1990 as 65 million. That was 8 years after its release in 1982. So from 1990 to 2006, to my mind, is enough time for another 40 million sales--yes indeed. Keep in mind how many billions of people are on this planet--7--so sales of 100 million over 30 years is not too hard for me to accept. Keep in mind Michael's tours after 1990--Dangerous, HIStory--and all the people who went to see him perform, saw his short films, etc. etc. etc.
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The 65 mil mark in 1990 makes sense to me because back in 1984 Thriller had been released just over a year and a few months and was certified the greatest selling album of all time, selling 33 million copies worldwide. So it only makes sense it would have sold more by 1990, and then again by 2000, and again by 2006-2009.

Maybe we should do some attempt at counting it in a thread somewhere?

If it was 65 million worldwide in 1990, do we know what the sales for Thriller were like in 1991, 1992, 1993, etc? Because it was still selling very well at that point.

I think it would be useful for fans to calculate something together and circulate a few blog posts about it with good links, so that when we need to argue about this again, because they will force people to argue with it again and again because they won't let MJ have credit for anything, we have things to back us up.
 
The estate's response should be a sticky and LaCienega you are right they will try to argue with us about that and every thing else, as they try to take Michael's accomplishments away. The foolish thing is that they think by writing untruths which show his numbers lower than they are, that this somehow would cause his importance and accomplishments to disappear. Poor things, they really have begun to believe what they write.
 
la_cienega;3764149 said:
The 65 mil mark in 1990 makes sense to me because back in 1984 Thriller had been released just over a year and a few months and was certified the greatest selling album of all time, selling 33 million copies worldwide. So it only makes sense it would have sold more by 1990, and then again by 2000, and again by 2006-2009.

Maybe we should do some attempt at counting it in a thread somewhere?

If it was 65 million worldwide in 1990, do we know what the sales for Thriller were like in 1991, 1992, 1993, etc? Because it was still selling very well at that point.

I think it would be useful for fans to calculate something together and circulate a few blog posts about it with good links, so that when we need to argue about this again, because they will force people to argue with it again and again because they won't let MJ have credit for anything, we have things to back us up.
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I don't think they need to argue. The Estate just put it to rest. Over 100 Million for Thriller. (confirmed)
 They would not have even commented on this if they did not in fact have the valid stats to back it up. If the industry acknowledges it why should others and even some of Michael's own fans doubt it. Fans could try but it's near impossible for a fans/ a lay person to count all the stats and sales from every countries valid charts and estimated sales reliably.

ivy;3764091 said:
Statement From The Estate Of Michael Jackson Regarding Thriller

We understand that loyal MJ fans are reacting to the article that appeared in the New Yorker questioning the sales of Michael’s “Thriller” album. Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE. In addition, the number of singles sold cannot even be tallied. It is far and away the largest selling album in record industry history which, ironically, the same reporter noted in the December issue of the same magazine. Quite frankly, we are unaware of the credentials of the blogger in the New Yorker, and point out that it is his opinion only, and not based on the facts of the extraordinary 30-year sales history of Michael’s masterpiece.


- John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors, The Estate Of Michael Jackson
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But my question is why would ANY fan of Michael's want to doubt or disprove those numbers. He was always loyal to his fans so Why would they want disprove what has been stated to take that great achievement and honor away from him. What would be their Reason/motive to want to disprove that ?? Don't we have the media for that job who still tries to beat him down and downplay every thing he has ever accomplished.

Michael deserves to soar .. above the rest. He rightfully earned that place with his God given talent, persistence and his blood sweat and tears. We should all be celebrating and honoring him for Thriller's 100 Million and tell the others who are jealous and feel threatened by it to eat his dust. He did "Threatened" even when he is gone they still feel threatened by him becuase the "Artists" they support can never reach the bar that Michael set and thats the truth.
 
Great that the Estate weighed in with their emphatic statement: "Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE."

It was interesting to think about the whole issue of statistics and the 2 different recording companies involved in Thriller (Michael's label Columbia that got bought by SONY), and the different forms the album took over 30 years time (vinyl, cassettes, cd's, downloads), and the certifying agencies involved (GB of R, RIAA, the Japanese recording industry figures, and the international certifying agency used by the WMA). And I considered how difficult it must be, especially when you are dealing with countries that may not be ready re gathering/compiling data. Someone objected to going by how many albums were shipped as opposed to sold. But if you want data on sold, then the stores have to provide it. But they are not getting paid to do that, so why should they? It is just another hassle for them if they don't have that kind of equipment, esp. in decades past. So MORE than 100 million albums of Thriller sold, sounds right. They are being conservative.

As far as Michael not getting his due--what's up with that?? Time to stop that, Bill Wyman. Time give it up for the King of Pop--as Beyonce said at the WMA 2006.
 
But my question is why would ANY fan of Michael's want to doubt or disprove those numbers. Why would they want to take that great achievement and honor away from Michael. Don't we have the media for that job who still tries to beat him down and downplay every thing he has ever accomplished.
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I think it is because of the media treatment of MJ is why some fans over analyze to exhaustion a point, so he doesn't get call out for it later. But, to what point? Sometimes it just becomes straight up over kill!-_-

He deserved to soar .. above the rest. He rightfully earned that place with his God given talent, persistence and his blood sweat and tears.
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Agree!
 
Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE

The bolded part.

I believe they have access to all sort of numbers from various places, so they know the correct numbers.


Did anyone posted this to no-credentials Bill Wyman?
 
The media wont be happy until they can wipe mjs name from the history books. wipe the fact he ever walked the earth. they belittle him with lies about his personal life inorder to re write history and try to downplay his musical success. the actual figures are not important to me its the fact this is happening in the first place and this article was written. do we see articles questioning elvis "billion" sales. of course we dont because it is the media who push that figure regardless of the truth. because he is one of their own. their king. mj got above his station and ever since thriller came out it was about putting mj in his place
 
144 said:
it doesn't matter what you believe. 100 mill happened anyway. if someone posted a lesser figure you'd believe even lesser.
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There are not proofs Thriller sold over 100 mill.
I hope to be proved wrong but with real facts ;-)
 
I love Michael, is by far my favourite artist ever, but i don't believe Thriller sold that much, sorry.
 
I do belive that it sold 100 milion cuz really when u look at the crazyness that surronded thiller when it was released there had never been such overwhelmed attention & love for an album like that. That album had touched so many ppl with different races, all ages from kid to elderly
 
pierpinto1 said:
Try now.
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Thanks. Lots of numbers to check:D

I understand that you don't believe Thriller sold over 100 million because no proof, and you will believe it when you see it. Fair enough.

You have numbers from the countries listed on your page, but what about the countries that you do NOT have the numbers from? Does it mean that Thriller didn't sell in those countries at all? You have included counties from Europe and Asia but not all of the countries within those continents?

Anyways, I had a quick glance at Thriller numbers on the first page.
First of all, you have listed there this: RUSSIA - Gold (10,000) ("Thriller 25th" - 2009)
Where is the numbers for original Thriller or it didn't sell there at all?
For a population over 100 million, Michael did very poorly there:bugeyed
I would love to hear from fan from Russia if they have some sort of numbers for Thriller.


Btw, UKmix forums has the same thing, they don't have Russian numbers either for original Thriller.

Also, there are sales numbers for Thriller taken from small European countries, and no numbers from bigger countries at all, such as Turkey? Whats with that? Just because you don't have numbers for that country, those numbers doesn't exists?

I believe that Thriller DID NOT sell over 100 million once you show me a complete list of all the countries all over the world and their sales for Thriller, and if their total comes under 100 million, so be it.


Note that I had time to look only first page of your link, so you may have changed some numbers later.
I'll read more later when I have time to delve in:)
 
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I think the 100+ millions for Thriller is true.

In 1982 released on casette and LP, then later released on CD - and then later again digital download, itunes etc.!

Also - the 100+ is for all the versions of Thriller combined. Thriller, Thriller special 2001, T25 etc.

ALSO - I think Thriller may still sell 1 million copies a year. - Whenever a new MJ release comes arounf Thriller sales rises.

I have no reason to not believe the estate - surely they have access to knowledge we don't!
 
In Russia or other east European countries "Thriller" wasn't released at all, probably only pirated.imported copies were available, but of course them do not count towards the official sales figures.
The album was of course released in the 90's but we do no have any info.
In Russia certifications are available only for albums released from 2003 onwards.
Thriller may have sold not more than 30-40,000 copies overall, but the only official figure we got was the gold award for the sales of Thriller 25th achieved in 2009.
Same goes for other little countries.
With official confirmed and available figures Thriller is up to ~60 mill. copies and adding up sales we don't have access to i don't think is over 70 mill, let alone 100 mill!!
 
In Russia or other east European countries "Thriller" wasn't released at all,
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HUh? but i thought thiller was released worldwide
 
pierpinto1 said:
In Russia or other east European countries "Thriller" wasn't released at all, probably only pirated.imported copies were available, but of course them do not count towards the official sales figures.
The album was of course released in the 90's but we do no have any info.
In Russia certifications are available only for albums released from 2003 onwards.
Thriller may have sold not more than 30-40,000 copies overall, but the only official figure we got was the gold award for the sales of Thriller 25th achieved in 2009.
Same goes for other little countries.
With official confirmed and available figures Thriller is up to ~60 mill. copies and adding up sales we don't have access to i don't think is over 70 mill, let alone 100 mill!!
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Are you insinuating that Sony would willingly paid royalties on 30,000,000 records that MJ DID NOT SELL? That makes sense...
 
pierpinto1 said:
In Russia or other east European countries "Thriller" wasn't released at all, probably only pirated.imported copies were available, but of course them do not count towards the official sales figures.
The album was of course released in the 90's but we do no have any info.
In Russia certifications are available only for albums released from 2003 onwards.
Thriller may have sold not more than 30-40,000 copies overall, but the only official figure we got was the gold award for the sales of Thriller 25th achieved in 2009.
Same goes for other little countries.
With official confirmed and available figures Thriller is up to ~60 mill. copies and adding up sales we don't have access to i don't think is over 70 mill, let alone 100 mill!!
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and because we don't have the info, but the estate might have, those sales doesn't count?
Since 90's many thing has changed in many countries, including Russia and other "small" counties like Turkey (population 56,704,327 (July 1990), I believe it is possible that the estate could have numbers from those countries from lets say 1990 onwards, which make it possible to Thriller has sold more than 100 million since release date to current.

I would like to hear from person/fan living/lived in Russia what they think and if they have information regarding sales there.

Sorry to sound like dog with bone, but at the moment I find hard to believe Thriller not selling 100 million, counting on all the countries, album/cassette/cd/and digital releases (iTunes)and other places like Nokia Ovi (MJ being most download artist in their history), and there could be other places where you can buy music that I don't know about.
Of course you probably don't consider that as "official sales" as it doesn't come from formally known place when tracking album sales, but then again that doesn't mean that it is impossible Thriller to sell over 100 million.

I cannot access your link again, did you give a boot or whats wrong:)

What number did you have for China? I remember seeing Hong Kong in some list but did you have China separately?
 
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Memefan said:
Are you insinuating that Sony would willingly paid royalties on 30,000,000 records that MJ DID NOT SELL? That makes sense...
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Do you mind if I ask where did you get that number?
Is that royalties paid for Thriller?

Thinking of royalties, the estate knows how much money MJ have received royalties from Thriller, before his death and after, so they may have calculated how many albums sold.
It doesn't make any sense that they go on RECORD saying Thriller sold over 100 million without any backup for that claim, so they must have more info in their hands than we are aware of.
 
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Thriller LP
Thriller CD
Thriller Cassette
Thriller Special Edition
Thriller SACD
Thriller Millennium Edition
Thriller 25th Anniversary
Thriller 25th Anniversary - Japan

I wonder if I have any other editions of it...lol
 
pierpinto1 said:
There are not proofs Thriller sold over 100 mill.
I hope to be proved wrong but with real facts ;-)
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The only people completely privy to all 'proof' and 'facts' related to Michael's album sales will be those working for his Estate or SONY. So unless you belong to one of these groups, you do not know all the 'facts' to dispute a statement made by someone belonging to either of those groups.

It's your word over the Estate's, and I choose to believe the latter for the above mentioned reason. Sorry ;D
 
Rhilo said:
The only people completely privy to all 'proof' and 'facts' related to Michael's album sales will be those working for his Estate or SONY. So unless you belong to one of these groups, you do not know all the 'facts' to dispute a statement made by someone belonging to either of those groups.

It's your word over the Estate's, and I choose to believe the latter for the above mentioned reason. Sorry ;D
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I know what you mean, but....

mjjsource gave a figure of 59 mill, back in 2004 and the # of copies suddenly jumped to 104 mill. in 2006.

There's something wrong....
 
The MJ Estate are probably the people in the right position to know the truth about the total sales of Thriller (or at least shipments) as MJ should have received royalties proportionate to the sales. Sadly they are also the people who are most inclined to 'lie' or 'stretch the truth' where MJ's sales are concerned, therefore haters won't believe the MJ Estate's word. I actually agree with that. You can't just say Thriller has sold 100,000,000 and expect people to believe it. The MJ Estate's confirmation proves nothing. It is not evidence IMO.
Sony would also be able to confirm official sales (I mean shipments since they don't know how many are sitting on store shelves). Again, they have an interest in exagerating the figures so cannot be believed IMO.
Certifications would be the only proof to people who doubt the sales figure, but sadly proper tracking was not in place throughout Thrillers complete lifetime and wasn't in place in all countries, even recently. Therefore it is impossible to independently verify the sales of Thriller, unless an independent auditor is brought in by Sony / MJ Estate. Even then, doubters would question the independence of the auditor because they're being paid by MJ EState/Sony.
Unfortunately the Guiness Book of World Records is also not a valid source. The guy who runs it even said that the 100,000,000 figure came from MJ's people and that they awarded MJ, but MJ's people didn't provide the proof the book required, and so the award was withdrawn from the book after it had already been published. I haven't looked at the last few issues so if you have a copy, check it. the award won't be there - it was only listed in 1 issue before being removed AFAIK.
 
If this was about Elvis or the Beatles there would be no article like this. This person has wrote previous articles about Michael that comes across as disrespectful to him as an artist and a person. The estate doesn't comment on a lot of things. 30 years later Thriller still sells.
 
I'm not quite getting it. So we have someone on here who says they are from Russia where they say Thriller didn't sell at all, yet, over the years, I have seen many come on sites like this who say they are from Russia who are ardent Michael Jackson fans who said he came there, and there were Russians who were on the sidelines screaming for him. Same for Italy. I've seen Russian and Italian fan sites dedicated to Michael, let alone, the rest of the world.
 
pierpinto1 said:
In Russia or other east European countries "Thriller" wasn't released at all, probably only pirated.imported copies were available, but of course them do not count towards the official sales figures.
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Its not true, Thriller, as well as BAD, was released in former Czechoslovakia on LP and MC, and afaik also in Hungary.
 
Guinness Book of World Records is quoted in 1990 as confirming worldwide sales of Thriller as 65 million. I posted that link earlier.
 
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