People sing They Don't Care About Us at US protest

[tricia70]

For some of us who lived through it, we were far too eager to purchase Michael’s HIStory album and purchased it immediately upon its release. The version we purchased contains the unaltered version of TDCAU and it is grand to hear it in its unaltered glory!

Yes indeed it was good for me to have lived it.

Yes I lived through it and I still enjoy the unaltered version which is fabulous and I am so lucky I have it. it's wonderful

 

[ivy]

that is why you researched it.

the only reason I researched it because I'd like to back up what I say with receipts. I feel people appreciate it.

For those of us who lived through it. The version we purchased contains the unaltered version of TDCAU and it is grand to hear it in its unaltered glory!

don't worry I lived through it too - In Europe though and still have original cassettes for all the albums.

As for the rest given that you aren't into discussing, I won't spend any more time answering. As I said before I refuse to get personal.

Why does it bother you that much when people say it was banned or partly banned? it's not some anti-MJ thing you know and it's not even harmful if it's wrong... I don't get it. It's not like it's a brand new information this song wasn't embraced by the music industry.

One thing that's dangerous is to change MTV, VH1's history with Michael, their treatment of Michael and somewhat portray them more positive towards Michael. MTV censored panther dance for Black and White saying MJ was touching himself inappropriately. VH1 removed the graffiti from video. I believe enough proof was shown here to demonstrate TDCAU was banned / censored by MTV and VH1. If my memory isn't failing me ITC was banned by MTV India.

To me this shows an unfair treatment towards Michael by MTV and VH1. So I personally don't get what is being achieved by denying their unfair behavior towards Michael. But that's me.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

I had MTV a available on cable until 1998 but I've never seen the prison version aired at all. When I saw Ghosts and the HIStory concert in Munich on another channel, they aired some shorts beforehand, those times the censored TDCAU Brazil was broadcast. It seems the prison version was indeed banned here. I continued checking until the mid 2000s (2005-2006) and MTV stopped broadcasting his shorts in 2003. I watched Michael's shorts again on vh1 classics in 2008 but they didn't broadcast either version, even Black Or White's ending was cut. I watched it full once by chance when I couldn't sleep in a early morning at 1am, they broadcasted the Brazil version though. Is there indeed an uncensored version of the Brazil version?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

One thing that's dangerous is to change MTV, VH1's history with Michael, their treatment of Michael and somewhat portray them more positive towards Michael. MTV censored panther dance for Black and White saying MJ was touching himself inappropriately. VH1 removed the graffiti from video. I believe enough proof was shown here to demonstrate TDCAU was banned / censored by MTV and VH1. If my memory isn't failing me ITC was banned by MTV India.

To me this shows an unfair treatment towards Michael by MTV and VH1. So I personally don't get what is being achieved by denying their unfair behavior towards Michael. But that's me.

And I absolutely agree with that, Ivy. I think demonstrates the tragedy of Michael's art and his freedom of speech. MTV and Vh1 were both proven to be unfair with Michael and I think it was completely unjust especially since we've all seen much more violent and sexually explicit videos on both of them. What I don't understand is why acknowledging the ban\partial ban is that upsetting to anyone here as if it's something that is demaging to Michael's image - even if it's not 100% true, and I don't believe it's false...

The BOW ban was disgusting IMO... Even with the blurred signs they wouldn't show it - WHY? it's a dance sequel, it's art. I know they said it's inappropriately and too sexual but PLEASE.

f

To
.me it was more about pacifing the Jews because they were all up in arms about how anti-Semitic Michael was which was ridiculous as we all know.
I

Both versions has the same sound effect on the "Jew Me"\"**** Me" part. With that logic, Brazil version should have been banned too.

 

[tricia70]

Both versions has the same sound effect on the "Jew Me"\"**** Me" part. With that logic, Brazil version should have been banned too.[/QUOT


I was referring to the prison version and why they banned/censored that one and how their excuse for that particular video being banned was the violence. To me, the violence was a lame excuse and bad one at that. The real reason was that to them it was anti-semetic.

 

[Tygger]

InvincibleTal, it is offensive to me when Michael’s history is rewritten after his passing to fit a poster’s agenda or an author of an article. I have said consistently the video was not banned in the U.S. and I will maintain that stance.

MTV released a statement the prison version of TDCAU was banned yet played it - albeit late night. That is not the true definition of a ban nor a partial ban. The Panther Dance section of the Black or White short film was a partial ban as that segment alone was not aired until it was updated with racial slurs. After time, the shorter version of the Black or White short film was played in favor of the long/full version. My experience dictates to me if TDCAU’s short film was banned or partially banned; not a poster here attempting to reinterpret the accepted meaning and not this author.

Question please: why are some acceptable of a half truth or no truth at all only if the overall message about Michael is positive?

One thing that's dangerous is to change MTV, VH1's history with Michael, their treatment of Michael and somewhat portray them more positive towards Michael. MTV censored panther dance for Black and White saying MJ was touching himself inappropriately. VH1 removed the graffiti from video. I believe enough proof was shown here to demonstrate TDCAU was banned / censored by MTV and VH1. If my memory isn't failing me ITC was banned by MTV India.

To me this shows an unfair treatment towards Michael by MTV and VH1. So I personally don't get what is being achieved by denying their unfair behavior towards Michael. But that's me.

InvincibleTal, readers, beware as herein lay another twist. NO ONE HERE stated MTV/VH1 was favorable to Michael with the release of TDCAU’s short film minus Ivy.

Ivy is the only one to state such and it is the opposite of what I previously stated.

Are you able to find anything stating the scenes were more violent when shown on other music channels that were not BET at the time? Any proof those viewers somehow more sensitive than BET viewers? Seems those scenes were subjective and was a convenient excuse for music channel stations who sided against Michael in favor of those – again, not limited to Michael’s camp and Sony executives - who initiated the controversy.

MTV/VH1 released a statement stating a ban of TDCAU yet, played the prison version. Seems MTV/VH1 used the controversy to receive attention for themselves. MTV/VH1 continued to be unfavorable to Michael when they decided to play Enimen’s video when he requested they refrain.

As for the rest given that you aren't into discussing, I won't spend any more time answering. As I said before I refuse to get personal.

laughs

Ivy, predictable, as usual. You have attempted to reinterpret the traditional meaning of the word ban and phrase partial ban in your attempt to prove me wrong. You will never find the receipts for the situations I posed to you and I am sure you know that.

No worries, others here have already given their eyewitness testimony that they saw the prison version play on MTV/VH1 and BET within the U.S. (and outside the U.S. which was not what the author referred to).

The ban written on paper by MTV seemed to have been lifted rather immediately or - as it happened - simply did not exist except on the papers the statement was written and reprinted for attention. Nice try though.

 

[ivy]

InvincibleTal, readers, beware as herein lay another twist. NO ONE HERE stated MTV/VH1 was favorable to Michael with the release of TDCAU’s short film minus Ivy.

Ivy is the only one to state such and it is the opposite of what I previously stated.

well you are twisting here. I didn't claim anyone stated MTV/VH1 as favorable to Michael. I said "somewhat portray them more positive towards Michael."

allow me to explain what I meant: What would be the most positive way to air TDACAU? No ban at all, right? Both videos playing freely at all day long. Which would be followed by censorship, temporary ban and full long time ban.

So a ban is the most negative thing that could happen to any song/video. Being just censored or never ever banned at all is a more positive thing than being banned.

That's what I meant by portraying them as more positive towards Michael. If anyone believes MTV/VH1 or any other channel banned / censored Michael's songs unfairly, MTV/VH1 should be named and shamed - and that's what I believe the author is doing here. Shaming the parties who resulted in such ban/censorship. Denying what MTV/VH1 did only helps to portray them more positively and with less fault.

I get it that you don't believe MTV/VH1 banned TDCAU. I believe they did. Even if it was just censorship - such as airing video late at night- it wasn't okay in my book. I don't want to see them to get a free pass . So I'm glad that there is such a positive article calling all those parties on their role in "banning" TDCAU.

I feel I made myself extremely clear in this regard and majority will understand my position and as I said before I have no interest in engaging in any personal jabs with you. So I'll continue to ignore them while focusing on the discussion.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

it was the the attention seakers at the ADL (remind me of peta) who cried foul. of the rest of the establishment will take any excuse to attack mj as he shows the truth about many things. a truth many cant handle and dont want to be seen.

i remember seeing the prison version on mtv. but it was a rare event. thibk we waited a good while to finally see it

 

[soulmum]

Lets not get sterotypical here inregards to who runs the media. the most powerful man is murdoch and hes not jewish. is viacom owned by jews?? it was the the attention seakers at the ADL (remind me of peta) who cried foul. of the rest of the establishment will take any excuse to attack mj as he shows the truth about many things. a truth many cant handle and dont want to be seen.

i remember seeing the prison version on mtv. but it was a rare event. thibk we waited a good while to finally see it

The video was indeed severely restricted, during that time frame I saw it ONCE on MTV. I liked the version so much I remember paying £25 just to get a promo tape of it. Re the panther dance - I taped it live on the day of its premier and that was the last time in my recollection it was shown fully. TDCAU was critisized for it's graphic imagery yet we see far worse daily in the news channels. I will once again state that I am delighted to see Michael's work being used in a positive way to get a message across, he has influenced, for the good, many people of all colours.

 

[Tony R]

Both versions has the same sound effect on the "Jew Me"\"**** Me" part. With that logic, Brazil version should have been banned too.

I was referring to the prison version and why they banned/censored that one and how their excuse for that particular video being banned was the violence. To me, the violence was a lame excuse and bad one at that. The real reason was that to them it was anti-semetic. Jewish ppl in this country account for 1.5% of the population but they have the most power and money and that trumps everything it seems.

As a Jewish man, I wasn't offended by the TDCAU original lyrics when I bought the CD on first day of release. I realised that he was referring to all minority groups. At the same time, you don't use a work like k*** without expecting some reaction. It's like a non-black person using the N word. It's just not done.

Also for the record, I don't remember it being Jewish groups being offended at the usual, as normal it was other people getting offended on behalf of other minority groups.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Thats funny tony seeing as we are both from Leeds. my dad and his side of the family are aswell. Our familes might have known of each other

 

[InvincibleMJ]

As a jewish man, I wasn't offended by the TDCAU original lyrics when I bought the CD on first day of release. I realised that he was referring to all minority groups. At the same time, you don't use a work like k*** without expecting some reaction. It's like a non-black person using the N word. It's just not done.

Also for the record, I don't remember it being Jewish groups being offended at the usual, as normal it was other people getting offended on behalf of other minority groups.

I hope my quote just snuck in and it wasn't because you think I was generalizing it too, because it was quite the contrary.

I think the media was only too eager to accuse Michael of anti semitism and it wasn't just jewish groups that were "offended" by those terms. I disagree with those accusation and I think it was a misconception of a song that was written to identify with victims of hate.

Please don't turn this thread from objecting to one kind of racism to supporting another.

Lets not get sterotypical here inregards to who runs the media. the most powerful man is murdoch and hes not jewish. is viacom owned by jews?? it was the the attention seakers at the ADL (remind me of peta) who cried foul. of the rest of the establishment will take any excuse to attack mj as he shows the truth about many things. a truth many cant handle and dont want to be seen.

 

[Tony R]

Thats funny tony seeing as we are both from Leeds. my dad and his side of the family are aswell. Our familes might have known of each other

Possibly! You'll have to PM me details!

I hope my quote just snuck in and it wasn't because you think I was generalizing it too, because it was quite the contrary.

Please don't turn this thread from objecting to one kind of racism to supporting another.

Yes, yours just snuck in. And I don't want to turn the thread, but the posts - apart from being innacurate - were insinuating that 'The Jews' (whoever 'the jews are' - me, Barry Manilow & Barbra Streisand???) were the ones who enforced the chnage of lyrics & I disagree.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I think we are moving away from the original comment and follow up discussion inregards to they who control the media and it been they who helped ban the song. And about sterotypes been used

 

[Tony R]

I think we are moving away from the original comment and follow up discussion inregards to they who control the media and it been they who helped ban the song. And about sterotypes been used

Indeed, and finally from me (maybe!), a pop star having to amend or censor lyrics is possibly the most usual thing in the world. Everytime a rapper uses the N word it will get censored (e.g. Kanye's Golddigga, Arrested Development's People Everyday as two obvious examples that spring to mind).

It was n'owt to do with it being a consipracy or that it was Michael Jackson.

 

[Paris78]

D.B.Anderson @DBAnderson1 · Dec 22th
Michael Jackson as Charlie Chaplin. This isn't random. #TheInterview They Don't Care About Us http://bit.ly/1BXbTeL

D.B.Anderson @DBAnderson1 · Dec 22th

Very interesting to see renewed interest in Chaplin's The Great Dictator. Time for schooling on MJ/Chaplin? http://vult.re/1JFG5gJ

 

[Bonnie Blue]

And I don't want to turn the thread, but the posts - apart from being innacurate - were insinuating that 'The Jews' (whoever 'the jews are' - me, Barry Manilow & Barbra Streisand???) were the ones who enforced the chnage of lyrics & I disagree.

It's a fact that 'jewish groups' were the ones who forced mj to change. The anti-defamation league is an organisation dedicated to fight anti-semitism and it's director, abraham h foxman was a leading critic of tdcau, he's jewish.

After ADL protested the lyrics, "Jew me, Sue me" and "Kick me, **** me," in the song which was released as part of the album HIStory, Mr. Jackson wrote to Mr. Foxman on June 22 saying, "...I have chosen to re-record it ["They Don't Care About Me"], deleting the words found offensive." In the letter to ADL, Mr. Jackson said, "I acknowledge that I seriously offended some people which was never my intention and for that I am deeply sorry... I have come to understand over the past days that these words are considered anti-Semitic...I sincerely hope that anyone offended by my words will forgive me for not recognizing this sooner."

http://archive.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/2662_12.html

At the same time, you don't use a work like k*** without expecting some reaction. It's like a non-black person using the N word. It's just not done.

Judging from mj's reaction to all this hoohaa, i really don't think he was doing it for a reaction or to be deliberately controversial. He went to great lengths to apologise to the jewish community about any offence caused and i'm sure he recongnised how damaging it was to him personally and the message that he wished to promote. I kind of assume he just hadn't realised the sensitivities around that word, idk.

 

[metermaid]

wow this thread got weird.......anyways....DB Anderson is connecting a lot of dots. Please support him on twitter if you can.

@DBAnderson1
@vulture @BilgeEbiri 'Great Dictator' finally explains that Michael Jackson HIStory teaser http://bit.ly/13q1Q2z

D.B.Anderson @DBAnderson1 · Dec 22th
Michael Jackson as Charlie Chaplin. This isn't random. #TheInterview They Don't Care About Us http://bit.ly/1BXbTeL

D.B.Anderson @DBAnderson1 · Dec 22th

Very interesting to see renewed interest in Chaplin's The Great Dictator. Time
for schooling on MJ/Chaplin? http://vult.re/1JFG5gJ

also interesting that the MJ twitter tweeted a link to his first article but not to this one about sony....

 

[elusive moonwalker]

This guys gonna end up getting the sack if he carries on like this!

 

[metermaid]

This guys gonna end up getting the sack if he carries on like this!

lol he's a free lance writer so as long as he keeps getting the hits, he will keep getting the jobs. his last story about the sony hack made it to gawker's front page. the momentum is incredible.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Ah thats why then. freelance. good luck to him

 

[HIStory]

Maybe mj used the **** and jew me inrelation to some of those involved in 93.

I don't think so. That would suggest he really used that line to negatively refer to Jews which is not the case - as it is clear from the context. He uses those terms to identify with victims of discrimination, not to curse them out.

Actually, Evan Chandler in his 1996 lawsuit tried to use this interpretation of this line, claiming that it referred to him, but it was clearly a deliberate, out-of-context misrepresentation of the song and this line just to boost his case.

 

[HIStory]

Indeed, and finally from me (maybe!), a pop star having to amend or censor lyrics is possibly the most usual thing in the world. Everytime a rapper uses the N word it will get censored (e.g. Kanye's Golddigga, Arrested Development's People Everyday as two obvious examples that spring to mind).

It was n'owt to do with it being a consipracy or that it was Michael Jackson.

Is that really so? I mean maybe you can name examples where the n-word is censored but then there are a lot of Hollywood movies where it is not censored at all (typically by white directors, I have to add). Quentin Tarantino is famous for using the n-word a lot in his movies. He's been criticized for it, but I don't think it got his movies censored. Of course, in movies this is always excused saying that such things are needed for the realism of the movie etc. Well, in the artistic context of TDCAU MJ using the k-word makes at least as much sense...

 

[HIStory]

MJJCommunity ?@MJJCommunity Heal The World Played At Sydney Siege Site [Video] http://mjjc.info/1CqWVhk #MJJCNews

A Sydney man played the music of Michael Jackson's Heal The World at the site of the recent cafe siege in the CBD.
The man, identified on Twitter as "Josh from Parramatta" brought a small sound system to the area outside the Lindt Cafe in Martin Place on Wednesday .

He played the song at the site where flowers were being placed as a memorial to the two people who were killed in [last] Tuesday's siege.

The song carries a very deep and profound message about changing the world and leaving it a better placefor you, for me, and for all future generations. A message that we all be listening to very, very carrefully.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/news/he...e-video?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Tony R]

Is that really so? I mean maybe you can name examples where the n-word is censored but then there are a lot of Hollywood movies where it is not censored at all (typically by white directors, I have to add). Quentin Tarantino is famous for using the n-word a lot in his movies. He's been criticized for it, but I don't think it got his movies censored. Of course, in movies this is always excused saying that such things are needed for the realism of the movie etc. Well, in the artistic context of TDCAU MJ using the k-word makes at least as much sense...

Yeah, but I'm not referring to movies, I'm referring specifically to music. There are no instances where a song would be played on mainstream radio with the N word in it (not in UK anyway) and therefore by the same logic, neither should k-ke. Even if it wasn't meant in a derogatory manner.

 

[HIStory]

Yeah, but I'm not referring to movies, I'm referring specifically to music. There are no instances where a song would be played on mainstream radio with the N word in it (not in UK anyway) and therefore by the same logic, neither should k-ke. Even if it wasn't meant in a derogatory manner.

I deliberately looked for a white artist doing it because some people feel it's different when someone uses these kind of words for their own group of people (ie. black rappers using the n-word is different than white people). So here is a white artist constantly using that word. Does it get censored on TV? I don't know. Is he told to beep it out on his albums? Can someone more familiar with Eminem tell?

And BTW, why do movies get a pass?

 

[Tony R]

I deliberately looked for a white artist doing it because some people feel it's different when someone uses these kind of words for their own group of people (ie. black rappers using the n-word is different than white people). So here is a white artist constantly using that word. Does it get censored on TV? I don't know. Is he told to beep it out on his albums? Can someone more familiar with Eminem tell?

Yes, in UK at least whenever his songs are on TV or radio it would get censored.

 

[HIStory]

Yes, in UK at least whenever his songs are on TV or radio it would get censored.

Is it also censored on his albums? Also as I can see from the above video, some of that concert footage was played at mainstream TV stations without the n-word being beeped out. (VIVA for example is a very mainstream German music channel.)

 

[Tony R]

Is it also censored on his albums? Also as I can see from the above video, some of that concert footage was played at mainstream TV stations without the n-word being beeped out. (VIVA for example is a very mainstream German music channel.)

Yeah, fair point. It's rare the album version gets censored.

Like I've said before, I don't think MJ was being deliberately offensive but I do understand people being upset at its usage.

 

[metermaid]

and for the record, I have no problem with how Michael used the word "****" because I understand the context. disclaimer because I can easily see how this could turn into a "well then you don't support Michael" irrationality fest lol