Was He The Most Famous Person On Earth?

[HIStory]

That type of accessibility cost people a lot of money.

If you are trying to make the argument that Elvis somehow had it more difficult then Michael, it's very much wrong. Some people would argue that Elvis actually enjoyed white privilege. Meanwhile Michael was a black man who had to fight MTV to get his music played and I'd argue that in certain segments of the media there were still subtle racist attitudes against him. Some people would argue that the fact that more innovative and more original black artists were still marginalized due to racism during Elvis' era, that helped Elvis shine - being the white guy who played black music. So to somehow make it out to be that Elvis was not given enough publicity and platform - that could not be further from the truth.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I wouldn't discount David Beckham either, especially during the 1990s and early 2000s. I don't think there are a lot of people around the world who don't know who he is or what he does.

What about Michael Jordan?

Not even close.

While I agree they're both very famous especially in their time there are two things to consider - a) Not that many people are into sports, musicians are most likely to be more known because music is everywhere. b) Succesful athletes are considered as common knowledge in their time, musicians' work are being played and talked about decades after their last work.

You can also add Muhammad Ali and Diego Maradona to that list of legendary athelets that became part of pop culture at some point, but are they as famous as the most successful musicians of their time and will they be as famous 20 years from now? Doubt it.

 

[HIStory]

But, it goes without saying that modern technology offers indisputably more effective & broader exposure & Elvis Presley missed that opportunity.

He did not. TV existed, records existed, movies existed. And now his music is being promoted through the same channels as everyone else's. And if you want to factor in one circumstance why don't you factor in all others too? Like his white privilege which was also a product of his era?

 

[mj_frenzy]

Meanwhile Michael was a black man who had to fight MTV to get his music played and I'd argue that in certain segments of the media there were still subtle racist attitudes against him.

That is true.

 

[HIStory]

Yes, Cristiano Ronaldo is also a good candidate but I think David Beckham was even more famous, for reasons that have little to do with his athletic skills.

I think Ronaldo's popularity also does not only have to do with his athletic skills.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Many renowned classical musicians didn't enjoy the advantage of technology and their legacy and influence have lasted for centuries.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I am not saying (or implying) that Presley would have been more famous than MJ because of technology. They lived in different periods, so any comparison is, in my opinion, pointless.

But, it goes without saying that modern technology offers indisputably more effective & broader exposure & Elvis Presley missed that opportunity.

Well you are the one who brought him up.

They lived in the same age, Thriller was released 5 years after Elvis died. OTW two years. What's the big invention that made things more possible for Michael that Elvis couldn't do?

TV? Movie theaters? Vinyls? Airplanes? Cars?

You're talking like there were 100 years between them.

 

[LindavG]

I think Ronaldo's popularity also does not only have to do with his athletic skills.

True but David Beckham had the advantage that he's British, dating Posh Spice and the first famous "metrosexual" man.

 

[HIStory]

While I agree they're both very famous especially in their time there are two things to consider - a) Not that many people are into sports, musicians are most likely to be more known because music is everywhere. b) Succesful athletes are considered as common knowledge in their time, musicians' work are being played and talked about decades after their last work.

You can also add Muhammad Ali and Diego Maradona to that list of legendary athelets that became part of pop culture at some point, but are they as famous as the most successful musicians of their time and will they be as famous 20 years from now? Doubt it.

Indeed, which is why I think the question of this thread does not make much sense (sorry, OP). How do we even define "fame"? Jesus came up for example and I'm trying not to get into religious debates in this thread, but regardless of whether he existed or not in reality, is the person whom people have in their minds as Jesus today the same as the possible real figure (or several figures) behind this story? Is really the real Jesus that is famous or is it his myth? Of course, the answer may depend on what you personally believe about him.

And if we talk about such figures as Jesus. If he existed during his era he was of course not as famous as any living celeb is now. Today there is global mass media, Internet etc., while the real Jesus probably was only famous in and around his own town or so. If he was famous at all outside of his immediate followers. The fact is there are no contemporary writings about him and contemporary Romans apparently did not consider him significant enough to have even a note about him. So he did not seem that famous to me. The gospels were all written several decades after Jesus supposedly lived so how credible can they be considered? It's like we had to reconstruct Michael's life based on tabloids.

Due to technology, video, recordings etc. - as long as those exist - I think people will know more about the real Michael than the real Jesus. Even if unfortunately Michael's story too is polluted with myths and untruths "thanks" to tabloids, false accusers etc. - but the factual records will always be there as well. Unlike about Jesus about whom we do not really have any factual records. So can you then really call Jesus "famous"? It's the Bible's version of Jesus that is famous due to the fact that because of historical circumstances Christianity went on to become a major world religion.

On the other hand, the Biblical Jesus has been famous for 2000 years, so I think if we add all the Christians (and later Muslims and others) who lived in the past 2000 years, I think we would get a number of people that is much bigger than the people who live today and so despite of global mass media today - due to 2000 years of head start - no current celebrity can compete with the fame of the Bible's Jesus.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Well you are the one who brought him up.

They lived in the same age, Thriller was released 5 years after Elvis died. OTW two years. What's the big invention that made things more possible for Michael that Elvis couldn't do?

TV? Movie theaters? Vinyls? Airplanes? Cars?

You're talking like there were 100 years between them.

I am referring mostly to the periods when both were at the height of their success.

 

[LindavG]

While I agree they're both very famous especially in their time there are two things to consider - a) Not that many people are into sports, musicians are most likely to be more known because music is everywhere.

I disagree. Football is far more global and popular than music could ever be. Most music is confined to specific cultural, linguistic or geographical areas. Michael was one of the few who managed to break those barriers and that's what makes him so special. Major football competitions like the World Cup or the Champions League are watched by hundreds of millions of people around the world at the same time. Name one artist, past or present, that can draw such a crowd?

b) Succesful athletes are considered as common knowledge in their time, musicians' work are being played and talked about decades after their last work.

You can also add Muhammad Ali and Diego Maradona to that list of legendary athelets that became part of pop culture at some point, but are they as famous as the most successful musicians of their time and will they be as famous 20 years from now? Doubt it.

For those that can transcend their fame as an athlete, no doubt about it. And Beckham is one of those people. I don't know if you quite grasp how famous the man really is. This is Wiki has to say about it:

Beckham's fame extends beyond the pitch; in much of the world his name is "as instantly recognisable as that of multinational companies like Coca-Cola and IBM."[SUP][218][/SUP] Beckham's relationship and marriage to Victoria, who has been famous in her own right as part of the Spice Girls, contributed to his celebrity beyond football.

Beckham became known as a fashion icon, and together with Victoria, the couple became lucrative spokespeople sought after by clothing designers, health and fitness specialists, fashion magazines, perfume and cosmetics manufacturers, hair stylists, exercise promoters, and spa and recreation companies. One example is a line of aftershave and fragrances called David Beckham Instinct.[SUP][219][/SUP] In 2002, Beckham was hailed as the ultimate "metrosexual" by the man who invented the term[SUP][220][/SUP] and has been described as such by numerous other articles since.[SUP][221]
[/SUP]
The Beckhams were paid $13.7 million in 2007 to launch his fragrance line in the U.S.[SUP][222][/SUP] In the world of fashion, David has already appeared on the covers of many magazines. U.S. covers have included the men's magazine Details, and with his wife for the August 2007 issue of W.[SUP][223][/SUP]According to Google, "David Beckham" was searched for more than any other sports topic on their site in 2003 and 2004.[SUP][224][/SUP][SUP][225][/SUP] According to Ask Jeeves, Beckham ranked third, after Britney Spears and Osama bin Laden, among subjects most searched for by British users of that site in the first decade of the 2000s.[SUP][226]
[/SUP]
Upon their arrival in Los Angeles on 12 July 2007, the night before Beckham's formal introduction, Los Angeles International Airport was filled with paparazzi and news reporters.[SUP][227][/SUP] On the next night, Victoria appeared on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno to talk about the their move to LA, and presented Leno with a number 23 Galaxy jersey with his own name on the back. Victoria also talked about her NBC TV show Victoria Beckham: Coming to America.[SUP][228][/SUP] On 22 July, a private welcoming party was held for the couple at the Museum of Contemporary Art, Los Angeles. A-list celebrities attending included Steven Spielberg, Jim Carrey, George Clooney, Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, Will Smith, Jada Pinkett Smith, and Oprah Winfrey.[SUP][229][/SUP]

Beckham's many endorsement deals make him one of the most recognisable athletes throughout the world. In 2003 he signed a $160 million lifetime contract with Adidas, earning nearly half the money upfront and will continue to earn percentages of profits on all of his branded Adidas products.[SUP][230][/SUP] He had a 10-year collaboration with Pepsi Co. that expired in 2009.[SUP][231][/SUP] Other endorsements include Armani, Breitling, H&M, Diet Coke, Burger King and Samsung, which in 2012 earned him $27.7 million.[SUP][232][/SUP][SUP][233][/SUP] He has also promoted Walt Disney Co. theme parks.[SUP][234][/SUP] His fragrances include, Homme by David Beckham.[SUP][235][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Beckham

 

[Psychoniff]

Well you are the one who brought him up.

They lived in the same age, Thriller was released 5 years after Elvis died. OTW two years. What's the big invention that made things more possible for Michael that Elvis couldn't do?

TV? Movie theaters? Vinyls? Airplanes? Cars?

You're talking like there were 100 years between them.

I would have said the obvious...music videos, but Elvis DID appear in movies and promotional videos too.

 

[analogue]

There's stars, there's super stars, there's mega super stars and then there's Michael Jackson

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I am referring mostly to the periods when both were at the height of their success.

Then it's not a matter of money, different time periods or accessibility.

I would have said the obvious...music videos, but Elvis DID appear in movies and promotional videos too.

That's precisely the point. People did music videos before Michael Jackson. Elvis did have the technology and the money. The fact that Michael was smart enough to use this platform and take it to another level does not mean Elvis couldn't do it. He just didn't do it. That's the difference between pioneers and other people of their time.

It's not like Michael had the advantage of new technology and that's why he was more famous. Anything he had, Elvis had too.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Then it's not a matter of money, different time periods or accessibility.

These factors played a role, but, because of the different periods, the significance of each one may be liable to subjectivity.
That’s why I said that any comparison & conclusion is almost impossible.

 

[Antwort]

I believe he was (and still is) the most famous contemporary musician/pop star/celebrity on earth.

For a really short answer for the time being I'll have to go with librarian girl Dewey I think that sums it all up pretty well. There are quite a few other things I want to say on the subject, but now it's not the time.

 

[Gatesy2006]

Indeed, which is why I think the question of this thread does not make much sense (sorry, OP). How do we even define "fame"? Jesus came up for example and I'm trying not to get into religious debates in this thread, but regardless of whether he existed or not in reality, is the person whom people have in their minds as Jesus today the same as the possible real figure (or several figures) behind this story? Is really the real Jesus that is famous or is it his myth? Of course, the answer may depend on what you personally believe about him.

And if we talk about such figures as Jesus. If he existed during his era he was of course not as famous as any living celeb is now. Today there is global mass media, Internet etc., while the real Jesus probably was only famous in and around his own town or so. If he was famous at all outside of his immediate followers. The fact is there are no contemporary writings about him and contemporary Romans apparently did not consider him significant enough to have even a note about him. So he did not seem that famous to me. The gospels were all written several decades after Jesus supposedly lived so how credible can they be considered? It's like we had to reconstruct Michael's life based on tabloids.

Due to technology, video, recordings etc. - as long as those exist - I think people will know more about the real Michael than the real Jesus. Even if unfortunately Michael's story too is polluted with myths and untruths "thanks" to tabloids, false accusers etc. - but the factual records will always be there as well. Unlike about Jesus about whom we do not really have any factual records. So can you then really call Jesus "famous"? It's the Bible's version of Jesus that is famous due to the fact that because of historical circumstances Christianity went on to become a major world religion.

On the other hand, the Biblical Jesus has been famous for 2000 years, so I think if we add all the Christians (and later Muslims and others) who lived in the past 2000 years, I think we would get a number of people that is much bigger than the people who live today and so despite of global mass media today - due to 2000 years of head start - no current celebrity can compete with the fame of the Bible's Jesus.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP. I basically envision a scenario that if you got everyone in the entire world into a room (would have to be a very big room ) and asked for a show of hands who knew who MJ was, how many would put their hands up. Maybe they don't have to know anything about the man, but just if they know his name. That's how I would define fame.

 

[Autumn II]

Elvis never toured outside the United States (and yes, Hawaii is a part of the United States. . . . LOL). Michael was known for his WORLD tours. He had a forty year career, and his music is heard pretty much -- everywhere.

I think the scope of sports is over-estimated, compared to music and musicians. (I wouldn't recognize even a photograph of David Beckham and really don't care one way or another. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. LOL. There may not be a person in the world, anywhere, who would not recognize a photo of Michael.)

 

[HIStoric]

Elvis Presley does enjoy all the advantages of technology. I mean his music is on Spotify, his videos are on YouTube, his image and likeness is used in movies etc. It's not like his work is buried under some rock in this age of technology just because he lived two decades earlier. In fact, technology helps to spread his work as well. And again, Elvis is mainly popular in Western cultures (USA, and Europe to a lesser extent). Those cultures are not the whole world.

In all honesty, Elvis' music hasn't really lived on that well. I find he's far more famous as an icon rather than for his music nowadays.

 

[HIStory]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP. I basically envision a scenario that if you got everyone in the entire world into a room (would have to be a very big room ) and asked for a show of hands who knew who MJ was, how many would put their hands up. Maybe they don't have to know anything about the man, but just if they know his name. That's how I would define fame.

If you define fame that way then yes, Michael is very famous but so are a number of other people at this age where many people have some sort of mass media (TV, Internet etc.) I think anyone with an access to those will know Michael's name, but they would also know a lot of other celebrities' names. There are still isolated tribes and very poor areas where there is no mass media and they may or may not know about Michael. Certainly Michael is one of those people whose fame could definitely reach through to even such populations.

 

[Electro]

Regarding sport stars...

It might be true that football has a wider audience than music.
but those sport stars ususally have a rather short life in the public eye.
beckham had his years... but what about him in 10 years? will new generations know about him?
Do todays kids know who Mohammed Ali was?
Michael keeps living on through his conserved art, as it keeps being played.
sports people are usually only famous as long as the do it. who watches old football games?

So if you add the time dimension to Michaels popularity... i think he can't be beaten by any other "star" in whatever field.

 

[mj_frenzy]

These are mostly famous names, not famous personalities.

No.

Every human being has a personality that consists of both positive & negative traits. Regarding these extremely renowned people I am pretty sure that their global achievements can be surely attributed to their (good or bad) personality traits.

Names, on the other hand, determine (lifeless) objects as well.

That’s why, I said personalities (instead of names).

 

[Electro]

Since there's absolutely no reliable evidence Jesus actually existed, he might be the most famous fictional character.

I am not religious, but there is no question about that this guy existed.
You can also easily reserach this... start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

What's in question is what later generations made out of him.

 

[Electro]

Non-Christians (Muslims, etc&#8230 know about Jesus.

Of course the elites do. I was referring to the majority of average people in certain areas of this world.
Education about alternative religions probably isn't a mass phenomena.
How many average western people know about central figures of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc?

Anyway, just a thought. I havn't asked every single one of them.

 

[MIST]

I suppose we can say Michael was more famous when he was alive than Jesus was when he was alive.
I don´t doubt Jesus was a historical person but just as we as Michael´s fans see him in differnt ways , i think those who followed Jesus had different views of him but there are only 4 disciples who has books in the bible.
First Mary from Magdala was a disciple with high reputation but after 400-500 years they made her to an prostitute

I wonder what will happen after 2000 years, will people know about Michel Jackson then?

 

[analogue]

It might be true that football has a wider audience than music.

I don't believe that someone kicking a ball around a field could touch more people than a beautiful piece of music

 

[Erandi]

And this:


They award him for Thriller, but the guy from Guiness tells him that he is the most famous person in the world

 

[mj_frenzy]

Since there's absolutely no reliable evidence Jesus actually existed, he might be the most famous fictional character.

Even Muslims admit the existence of Jesus (not to mention that they refer to Jesus with enormous respect).

Of course the elites do. I was referring to the majority of average people in certain areas of this world.
Education about alternative religions probably isn't a mass phenomena.
How many average western people know about central figures of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc?

Anyway, just a thought. I havn't asked every single one of them.

I think that these figures are well-known among the average people (even to the non-religious ones).

For example, the average Christian knows about Muhammad & vice versa.

 

[analogue]

Even Muslims admit the existence of Jesus (not to mention that they refer to Jesus with enormous respect).

Sorry but that's not real evidence to me. Just because Muslims say that Jesus exited doesn't mean that he actually did exist.

 

[HIStory]

Even Muslims admit the existence of Jesus (not to mention that they refer to Jesus with enormous respect).

Are you aware how Islam was formed? That it's largely based on Judaism and Christianity (with their own twist)?