Death from Propofol Article

TinaG

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I just came across a very interesting article about death by propofol that is from April of 2009. It's called Death from Propofol: Accident, Suicide or Murder? I'll just state up front that I in no way believe MJ committed suicide! There are just very interesting things in this article about propofol abuse, victims of murder and suicide, ways propofol is detected at autopsy--just many interesting facts. There was one case listed where a nurse was initially indicted with second degree murder after a patient's death, but then was upgraded to first degree murder and was convicted to life without parole. Anyway, thought I would share this link for anyone interested:

http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/reprint/108/4/1182.pdf
 
That's scary. This article makes me real mad at Michael. He was very familiar with propofol and its adverse effects. He probably knew that injections of 50 milligrams of propofol every night for six weeks could lead to intoxication/death. He played with his life! Michael should have avoided any danger - at least for the sake of his innocent children.This article makes him appear tired of life.
 
this really upset me... so much abuse of this drug, so much waste of life. Although ive been defending Michael, im starting to think that maybe he was an addict and maybe reports of him being thin, and not in his right mind are true. Why else would he have risked his life and his kids?
 
I agree with the comments so far. This has been the way I've been thinking for some time now.

IMO Murray fed his addiction.
 
I do not believe Michael was an addict he was murdered with propofol.

An doctor of Michael says he was free of drugs 6 years ago as does Dick Gregory.


A medic who became tragic pop icon Michael Jackson's personal doctor has told how the star was completely drugs free as recently as just six years ago.
Romanian-born Dr Alexie Ionache first met Jackson when he was a house doctor for the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas where the singer was staying in 1996.
But within days ***** had asked the medic to join his personal staff, Dr Ionache told Libertatea newspaper.
"He had no need of my help as a doctor, but I called on him to make a routine check and he told me he always wanted to have a doctor with him to monitor his health.
"So we met and he asked me to come onto his staff as his personal doctor," he explained.
But Ionache claims that the troubled star had no health problems when he worked for him and was not taking cocktails of painkillers.
"Back in 2003, Michael was not receiving any treatment and never asked me for any painkillers. He was not dependent on anything," said the doctor.
But he would never go out in public without applying layers of special cream to help disguise his vitiligo - a skin pigmentation disorder, he revealed.
"The only thing he was very careful about was his was skin.
"He always covered his face in cream and wouldn't leave the house without make-up," added Dr Ionache.
"I examined him from head to toe and he was perfectly healthy. But the law in America forbids me to give information about the health of a patient," he explained.

The doctor became close to the star and regularly examined his three children during nearly 10 years as one of Jackson's medical team.
And he denies claims that Jackson had become a shambling wreck living an eccentric reclusive life.
"I went several times to his home and his place was clean and tidy. I could see he had a room where he kept his cash.
"He used to mention this room from time to time and every time, before leaving the house, he would go inside," he said.
But the doctor says Jackson was desperately lonely.
"He spent a lot of time with his kids. He played with them a lot and you could tell he loved them very much.
"He told me he did not like the fact that he could not go around like a normal person because of the fans and that he prefered living his life around the children.
"He could not go to a supermarket like a normal person. When he did, his bodyguards would go ahead of him and evacuate the location so that he could have some privacy," he said.

But Dr Ionache has called on American authorities to jail whoever is responsible for the star's death after downing a cocktail of potent painkillers.
"The problem with the anesthetic propofol, or diprivan as it is called, is that it only stays in the blood two to three minutes.
"If the autopsy and the tests can prove the drug was still in his system at the time of his death then whoever administered it, should go to prison.
"This drug cannot be used at home but only in medical clinics," he said.
But despite his own troubles Jackson always had time to help others, said the doctor who lost touch with the star after his 2005 world tour was cancelled amid child sex allegations.
The medic lost touch with ***** after his 2005 tour was cancelled over the child sex accusations the star faced, and beat.
He once saw the singer make a 45,000 USD cash donation to a charity to help a child with a rare skin condition.
"I was at his home when his dermatologist came over and showed him a special case. Michael went into another room and immediately brought him the money the charity needed," he said.

http://www.romaniantimes.at/news/Pan...personal_medic
 
That's scary. This article makes me real mad at Michael. He was very familiar with propofol and its adverse effects. He probably knew that injections of 50 milligrams of propofol every night for six weeks could lead to intoxication/death. He played with his life! Michael should have avoided any danger - at least for the sake of his innocent children.This article makes him appear tired of life.
That is my belief from top to bottom as well. And I'm now called a hater on these parts... -.-'

It makes complete sense to me that Michael was a drug addict. He declared himself as addicted back in 1993-95, then a whole lot of different drugs were found at Neverland after a search warrant in 2003 (marijuana, ecstasy, demerol, cocaine etc.) and a few years prior to his death the same pharmacy that the DEA searched after his death (Mickey Fines Pharmacy) sued Michael for the lack of payment on bills that exceeded $100,000 dollars! And if I remember correctly, Michael also declared he was addicted in 2007 as well, in a court deposition.
 
I do not believe Michael was an addict he was murdered with propofol.

An doctor of Michael says he was free of drugs 6 years ago as does Dick Gregory.


A medic who became tragic pop icon Michael Jackson's personal doctor has told how the star was completely drugs free as recently as just six years ago.
Romanian-born Dr Alexie Ionache first met Jackson when he was a house doctor for the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas where the singer was staying in 1996.
But within days ***** had asked the medic to join his personal staff, Dr Ionache told Libertatea newspaper.[/url]

That article sounds like BS to me... They call him Jácko in the article.
http://www.romaniantimes.at/news/Panorama/2009-07-28/1966/Inside_*****%B4s_world_by_personal_medic

Also makes you wonder how a Romanian newspaper is the only one in the whole world who seems to know about this "Dr." Alexie Ionache...
 
That article sounds like BS to me... They call him Jácko in the article.
http://www.romaniantimes.at/news/Panorama/2009-07-28/1966/Inside_*****%B4s_world_by_personal_medic

Also makes you wonder how a Romanian newspaper is the only one in the whole world who seems to know about this "Dr." Alexie Ionache...



The articles I don't trust are western world mass media, this article is extremely hard to find on google due to censorship of google and tptb media portraying MJ in particular light.

Are you are aware of how western world mass media treated Michael

Dick Gregory also said he was clean of drugs during this period as well as TM.
 
That is my belief from top to bottom as well. And I'm now called a hater on these parts... -.-'

I don't know exactly what you have said about Michael in other threads. But people tend to put lipstick on the pig. The main problem is that a lot of them approve wrong behavior to keep up their ideal world. When someone starts to challenge Michael's behavior in order to get an idea of the truth you will be automatically labeled a hater. But the so called haters are mostly the ones who truly care. It's always good to have people around to tell you the truth. If Michael hadn't people around to overlook/support his "unconventional addiction?", he would have been alive today.
 
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That's scary. This article makes me real mad at Michael. He was very familiar with propofol and its adverse effects. He probably knew that injections of 50 milligrams of propofol every night for six weeks could lead to intoxication/death. He played with his life! Michael should have avoided any danger - at least for the sake of his innocent children.This article makes him appear tired of life.

You know these things how? telepathy?


That is my belief from top to bottom as well. And I'm now called a hater on these parts... -.-'

It makes complete sense to me that Michael was a drug addict. He declared himself as addicted back in 1993-95, then a whole lot of different drugs were found at Neverland after a search warrant in 2003 (marijuana, ecstasy, demerol, cocaine etc.) and a few years prior to his death the same pharmacy that the DEA searched after his death (Mickey Fines Pharmacy) sued Michael for the lack of payment on bills that exceeded $100,000 dollars! And if I remember correctly, Michael also declared he was addicted in 2007 as well, in a court deposition.

Penguin, can you find me a link or proof that the raid found ecstasy, marijuana, and COCAINE???
It is trued that the police found prescription medications.
Some of you want to believe or find it easy to believe that HE WAS AN ADDICT, as oppose to trying to have an open mind about it.
You don't want to think that there may have been a reason for Michael to have prescription drugs... such as his medical issues.

I hope some of you are perfect. Further more I hope some of you never face the things he faced.

Dear Michael,
I am proud of you Michael. I don't blame you for your death. I blame the idiot doctor that was there who was responsible for your death. And Michael, if you have an addiction to drugs, I am sorry. I am sorry you felt so alone and was betrayed by the vast majority of people that surrounded you.

And this is not to say it is ok to abuse drugs, but Michael I don't know if you had a dependency on prescription drugs because of your medical issues or because you just couldn't take the JUDGMENTS of people anymore and just needed to escape.

Lastly, Michael, you will not get judgments from me. I am sorry for what you had to deal with in life and in death I am sorry people still sit here and make judgments about you when they didn't know you for 1 minute. Rest in Peace. We love you most.
 
Hmm...can I just say (for my own benefit if no one else's) that I never said I thought Michael was an addict, nor was that my intent in linking to that article. The article just has lots of good information about death by propofol (under all sorts of circumstances, including murder), which I thought might be interesting to others since MJ died as a result of being injected with propofol. But even IF he was an addict, I certainly wouldn't judge him for it. I have no right to judge anyone else. I don't want it to appear as though I'm trying to make a case for addiction by starting this thread. Honestly, if I thought that would happen, I'd never have posted this. :(
 
You know these things how? telepathy?


These are only assumptions. It's part of investigation.

"He was familiar with propofol and its adverse effects." (Do you never inform yourself about the drugs your doctor prescribes to you? Not doing it - I believe this is unlikely.)

I've said "he 'probably' knew that injections of 50 milligrams of propofol every night for six weeks could lead to intoxication/death." And I've also said "this article 'makes him appear' tired of life".
It's the same thing when you say:

And Michael, if you have an addiction to drugs, I am sorry. I am sorry you felt so alone and was betrayed by the vast majority of people that surrounded you.


I hope some of you are perfect. Further more I hope some of you never face the things he faced.

Nobody is perfect. Everybody deals with problems in a different way.
Some people need more help than others (obviously).
 
Penguin, can you find me a link or proof that the raid found ecstasy, marijuana, and COCAINE???
It is trued that the police found prescription medications.
Here are the list of court documents I have been able to assemble so far. If anyone has additional documents with other findings, please feel free to share them.

Marijuana, ecstasy etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/120403irsw91307.pdf
Medicine bottles, item 515 and downwards:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/060804sdcontsheet.pdf
Page 14, line 15 - cocaine, demerol etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/013105pltmotrd14itms.pdf
Lawsuit by Mickey Fines Pharmacy, lack of payment on bills; exceeding $100,000 dollars:
http://cdn.digitalcity.com/tmz_documents/m_jackson_prescripstions.pdf
 
Hmm...can I just say (for my own benefit if no one else's) that I never said I thought Michael was an addict, nor was that my intent in linking to that article. The article just has lots of good information about death by propofol (under all sorts of circumstances, including murder), which I thought might be interesting to others since MJ died as a result of being injected with propofol. But even IF he was an addict, I certainly wouldn't judge him for it. I have no right to judge anyone else. I don't want it to appear as though I'm trying to make a case for addiction by starting this thread. Honestly, if I thought that would happen, I'd never have posted this. :(

Tina, the article is interesting. I am not trying to question your motives or reasons for posting this at all. :agree:
My issue is for people to read this argue and then go way off base and start making assumptions as to this and that. Thanks for posting.
 
These are only assumptions. It's part of investigation.

"He was familiar with propofol and its adverse effects." (Do you never inform yourself about the drugs your doctor prescribes to you? Not doing it - I believe this is unlikely.)

I've said "he 'probably' knew that injections of 50 milligrams of propofol every night for six weeks could lead to intoxication/death." And I've also said "this article 'makes him appear' tired of life".
It's the same thing when you say:






Nobody is perfect. Everybody deals with problems in a different way.
Some people need more help than others (obviously).

If Michael had know the IDIOT Murray was going to KILL HIM whether due to negligence or premeditation, I highly doubt Michael would have allowed this man to be his physician.
Michael wanted 8 hours of sleep, not sleep for ETERNITY.

investigate all you want but don't site here and make assumptions about someone's state of mind.
"he was tired of life" - oh, yea... so this means what? he wanted to die? die by lethal injection of profofol? really?
 
Here are the list of court documents I have been able to assemble so far. If anyone has additional documents with other findings, please feel free to share them.

Marijuana, ecstasy etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/120403irsw91307.pdf
Medicine bottles, item 515 and downwards:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/060804sdcontsheet.pdf
Page 14, line 15 - cocaine, demerol etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/013105pltmotrd14itms.pdf
http://cdn.digitalcity.com/tmz_documents/m_jackson_prescripstions.pdf

1. thanks for the links.
2. i have to read it line by line which i can't do right now.
3. i distrust anything the SB PD has to say so .... this won't convince me
4. cocaine and estacy--- hahhahahha, yea ok... i dont' think so.

i don't question prescription meds (demerol) being used by MJ or being prescribed to MJ. Due to lupus and other ailments I am sure MJ needed this and other meds like most of us do. But i can't make a judgment that he abuse of these drugs vs. taking the proper amount to treat his medical issues.
but the use of these meds doesn't automatically lead me to "addiction".

and profofol is a whole different issue.

with that said ... i am leaving this thread.....
 
1. thanks for the links.
2. i have to read it line by line which i can't do right now.
3. i distrust anything the SB PD has to say so .... this won't convince me
4. cocaine and estacy--- hahhahahha, yea ok... i dont' think so.

i don't question prescription meds (demerol) being used by MJ or being prescribed to MJ. Due to lupus and other ailments I am sure MJ needed this and other meds like most of us do. But i can't make a judgment that he abuse of these drugs vs. taking the proper amount to treat his medical issues.
but the use of these meds doesn't automatically lead me to "addiction".

and profofol is a whole different issue.

with that said ... i am leaving this thread.....
But you have to keep in mind that Michaels own legal defense team agreed that the cocaine had been found. And Michael himself stated both in 1993 and 2007 that he is addicted.

And with the enormous bills he has from Mickey Fines Pharmacy... It makes you think what was really going on.
 
I don't know exactly what you have said about Michael in other threads. But people tend to put lipstick on the pig. The main problem is that a lot of them approve wrong behavior to keep up their ideal world. When someone starts to challenge Michael's behavior in order to get an idea of the truth you will be automatically labeled a hater. But the so called haters are mostly the ones who truly care. It's always good to have people around to tell you the truth. If Michael hadn't people around to overlook/support his "unconventional addiction?", he would have been alive today.
You are taking the words out of my mouth...

I think some people are way too delusional or paranoid when it concerns Michael. If he didn't have enablers around him he would be alive today!

His family were the first ones in row. The biggest enablers. But even they (reportedly) tried to get him out of addiction.
 
If Michael had know the IDIOT Murray was going to KILL HIM whether due to negligence or premeditation, I highly doubt Michael would have allowed this man to be his physician.

You doubt it. Doubt isn't knowledge. Or... do you know all aspects of Michael? Neither do I! Don't forget Michael talked about death in interviews. And I believe you know about his attitude to death. By the way - I doubt it, too. But it's an assumption.

I'm not defending Murray. Murray is guilty as hell. I'm just saying - Michael could anticipate his death: "One side of my body is hot, it's hot, and one side of my body is cold. It's very cold,". Michael could go to hospital or stop using propofol/benzodiazepine! Why he didn't do? Doesn't an addiction 'make sense'?
Not necessarily a long-term addiction? Maybe Murray fed his addiction.


Michael wanted 8 hours of sleep, not sleep for ETERNITY.

Are you 100% sure? Maybe you know him for more than 1 minute?

investigate all you want but don't site here and make assumptions about someone's state of mind.


What does that mean? You make assumptions about Michael's state of mind, too. Take a look at your own statements! Why are you allowed to site here? Freedom of opinion? There's no reason to be rude.

"MJJC Investigative Unit In this forum we question Michael's death, the latest news and stories surrounding his death and the conspiracy theories - contains heavy spectulation so please if you aren't able to respect the atmosphere of this section do not enter."

"he was tired of life" - oh, yea... so this means what? he wanted to die? die by lethal injection of profofol? really?

Who knows? Could be. Could not be. People go through phases. Benzodiazepine use has a big bearing on our state of mind. I've said "this article makes him appear tired of life". That's a big diffrenece.
If Michael hadn't people around to overlook/support his use of drugs, he would have been alive today. Sometimes it's better to think of the worst case in order to save a life. Don't you think? PEACE.
 
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Dr. Arnie Klein: I Warned Michael Jackson About Propofol

ET's Kevin Frazier exclusively sits down with Michael Jackson's former dermatologist Dr. Arnie Klein, who says he warned Michael about the dangers of the powerful drug that allegedly led to his death.

"I told him that it was very dangerous. I told him it was addicting. And, I told him that he really shouldn't be using it," Klein says he told Michael about Propofol.

Klein says he didn't know Jackson was allegedly using Propofol around the time of his death, but he says Jackson had told him in years past that he'd used the drug.

"I knew that he had over-used Profol because in Germany on a tour, he told me that he was using Propofol. And I know that he had a bag of Propofol and called me one night and wanted me to start, and I told him how insane he was and went out there and told him, 'You can't start doing this.'"

Click the video for more of Kevin's interview with Dr. Klein

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFmeQm-Le-g



Cherilyn Lee: Michael Jackson's Nurse Refused to Help Get Powerful, Dangerous Sedative


"...Jackson did not go to the hospital as far as Lee knows. She said he was "adamant" about getting the drug, although she warned him of the drug's extreme dangers, over and over:
He wasn't looking to get high or feel good and sedated from drugs," she said. "This was a person who was not on drugs. This was a person who was seeking help, desperately, to get some sleep, to get some rest.

In recent months, Lee said, Jackson waved away her warnings about it.

"I had an IV and when it hit my vein, I was sleeping. That's what I want," Lee said Jackson told her.

"I said, 'Michael, the only problem with you taking this medication' — and I had a chill in my body and tears in my eyes three months ago — 'the only problem is you're going to take it and you're not going to wake up," she recalled.

Lee said, she wasn't familiar with the drug when he first asked for it three months ago, but, after consulting with a doctor, warned Jackson it could kill him.

"I look at you Michael and I've been around you long enough now, I love you as family. I would not give this to anyone,'" Lee said she told Jackson. "I said, 'This is not a safe medicine, please don't take this.'" ... "'The problem with you telling me you want to be knocked out,'" She says she told him, is "'you might not wake up the next morning. You don't want that.'"
http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/07/cherilyn-lee-is-michael-jacksons.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7975029&page=1&page=1

Matt Fiddes: The tragic singer's friend and UK bodyguard
Drugs Hell Of Michael Jackson

Matt says he and Uri tried in vain to keep drugs away from Jackson only for him to get more from the doctors, who he accused of charging fans up to £10,000 for introductions to their idol.
"I never witnessed him actually taking drugs but I knew they were there and I confiscated packages, and Uri did too," he said.

"And Uri confiscated injection equipment from his room... Uri would scream at Michael, you know, intensely, to stop doing this but we were getting pushed out.
"The doctor had such an influence over Michael that we felt our efforts were falling on deaf ears.
"As far as I'm concerned they have Michael's blood on their hands, they know what they've done and there's people out there who could have helped, could have stepped in but didn't for financial reasons.
"We went to great efforts to keep the doctors away. But as soon as we said anything and it gets back to Michael, Michael would have a screaming fit that we were interfering with his private life, that he knew what he was doing and he was in denial."
The worst state he ever saw Jackson get in to was before a trip to London Zoo, he said.
"We were extremely concerned. Uri would say 'Michael, have you taken something?'. He would come round and say it was jet lag.
"We never made it to that London Zoo visit. We couldn't get him in a state that would portray him in a good light so we had to cancel and Uri donated £1,000 to the Zoo because he felt so bad."
Yet Matt said the star was not taking hard drugs. "Michael Jackson was not a druggie. There was no cocaine or anything crazy like that. It was prescription drugs and painkillers from what I understand."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...friend-And-Drugs-Hell/Article/200907115327444

Virginia Family Says Michael Jackson Hid Out In Their Home

"The couple witnessed odd behavior too. The windows were taped up so no one could see in. They say Jackson slept during the day and roamed the house at night. 9NEWS NOW asked if they suspected drug use back then.
Robin Walters said, "There was something making him sleep, don't know if it were drugs but something to get him off the world for a moment."

http://www.wusa9.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=88893&catid=148



Bodyguard: Michael Was Addicted to Prescriptions
Michael Jackson's former bodyguard, Mike La Perruque, claims that Michael had a problem with prescription medication.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entert...ted_to_Prescription_Drugs_All__National_.html


Dr. Susan Etok:British doctor claims she was offered £500k to supply Michael Jackson with drugs for his O2 shows


A British woman has told how Michael Jackson offered her £500,000 to supply a shopping list of dangerous drugs to see him through his O2 shows.
Dr Susan Etok said ***** summoned her to a clandestine 90-minute meeting at a top London hotel, where he made the extraordinary proposal.
Desperate and agitated, he begged her to use her contacts in the UK to obtain a cocktail of drugs including Diprivan and Demerol - the same ones suspected to have killed him - because he "couldn't trust a doctor here".
She said: "He kept saying, 'Are you going to do it for me, you are going to do it for me, aren't you?'. He was desperate, like a child begging his mum for sweets.
"Then he said, 'I don't care what it takes, I don't care how much money it takes - if it costs half a million, that's fine'." Susan, 32, has spoken out to reveal the truth about how serious the star's habit had become, and her story gives a chilling insight into his manipulation of those around him to get drugs.
....
"I got a call from a guy called Vince from the States on March 2, telling me to keep the 6th free. I did and met him outside a café at Paddington station. He was waiting in a black SUV with blacked-out windows. He took a roundabout way to the hotel, as if he wanted to be sure we weren't being followed."
She added: "Michael was waiting for me. He was in black trousers, a red cotton top and one of his black fedora hats with a hairnet on underneath. He looked the thinnest he'd ever been in the 11 years I'd known him. When I came in, he stood up and gave me a big hug."
Jackson made small talk then steered the chat to drugs.
"I was excited about the concerts. He was saying, 'Mmm, I know', but seemed reluctant - not like someone ready to do so many concerts. He kept talking about the 'pain' it caused him when people were unkind. And he seemed stressed out and upset - I felt like his counsellor. He started saying how he couldn't trust a doctor here and asked what would happen if the kids got sick.
"Then he turned it round and said, 'Do you think you could look after me?'" Susan then realised Jackson was referring to members of her family who worked in medicine.
She said: "Then he said there were medications he took in the States that he needed. He said the names but they didn't mean much to me.
"The one name I recognised was Diprivan. I knew it was something to do with anaesthetics and thought that seemed strange. But Michael kept saying, 'They're just routine'."
As well as Diprivan - suspected to have led to his death - the list included other restricted drugs. Susan said: "That's when I got really suspicious."
To escape the intense atmosphere in the suite she pretended she needed the toilet. But when she went to the star's bathroom, she discovered yet more addictive pills piled up in boxes next to the sink.
The stash included Sertraline, Lofepramine, another antidepressant, and Zopiclone, a hypnotic drug used to treat insomnia. The labels suggested a UK-based doctor was prescribing them.
She decided on the spot to put the boxes in her bag to keep them away from Jackson - and to check if they really were "just routine".
She still has them at home in case they are needed as evidence in the police inquiry into his death. She said: "In the end, I just told him, 'I'll sort you out' because I wanted to get out of there. One of his minders drove me back to Paddington."He told me, 'You're in a position to help Mike, so why don't you?' The implication was that it would be better for me if I did it."
Jackson was mobbed by fans that night as he took older children Prince Michael and Paris to see West End musical Oliver! But away from the cameras, he was ringing to check if Susan was OK with the deal.
She said: "Even then, I wasn't convinced he was an addict. I was wondering if maybe he was really sick, maybe he had cancer and he was dying. But he kept ringing for days afterwards. In the end, I had to switch my phone off."
Susan talked Jackson's proposal through with two trusted friends.
Then she emailed him on March 20, saying "Dude, I'm really sorry, I can't help you with what you asked me to do. I just don't feel that it is right and I don't want to get myself or anyone else into trouble.
"I don't think you're being fair putting me in that position. If you are sick in any way or you need help, get it sorted with your GP in the USA. I'm there for you if you need to talk but I can't help you if you don't tell me what is going on!!" She said the singer called back five days later on her birthday. "He told me not to worry - he would get someone else to help him out."
It was the last time they spoke. Now, Susan is due to fly to the US to meet the Jackson family. She has vowed to help them nail those they hold responsible for Michael's death.
She added: "I tried so hard to get him to seek help for his addiction - I just feel guilty I couldn't do more to save him."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...et-him-drugs-for-his-02-gigs-115875-21583602/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3xV42lFh7U&NR=1



Six unrelated persons with the same opinion on Michael. I guess - Michael has needed professional help (detox)/someone to break this vicious circle he was in - already a long time ago.:sad:
 
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okay, can we all agree that he shouldn't have been taking the Propofol? he asked people to give it to him. VARIOUS people. Murray acquiesced and administered it. bad move, Murray. you should be in jail right now. but that does not mean Mike wasn't responsible in any way.

look, I am not saying he was an addict before he died. not in the strictest sense of the word. but he wanted/hungered for a good night's sleep. the Propofol gave it to him (or so he thought... it really didn't. in reality, it was messing with his system and putting him into an induced comatose state). so he "abused" it. no other "drugs" were found in his system in terms of long term abuse. his organs were okay. so we can rule out any kind of street drugs addiction, or even basic prescription drugs addiction because then his kidneys would have been shot.

but Mike should have checked into a sleep clinic, not ask for Propofol. aside from Murray's part in his death, Mike was certainly co-responsible for his demise.

it's not easy for me to say this. believe me, I would rather not. it just feels like that, in reality, is what went down.
 
Indranee, AlvaMJJ -- I'm glad you're saying these things, thanks for your posts.

It doesn't make us fans look good to the world if we seem blinded to truth by affection.
 
Yeah Indranee.. you are right after all. I think a combination of things reveal the true story. I think its probably true the dozens of reports that he wasn't an addict, and that he did get off his addictions in the 90s.

However, I think its probably also true that he may have picked it up again relatively recently, this past year or so. Severe insomnia was evidently a really bad problem for Mike, and he ended up getting Murray who evidently felt fine about pumping him full of sedatives at night. Leading to his untimely murder by a man who knew fully what he was doing.

There's still a hell of a lot of suspicious stuff around it all though... something doesn't add up.
 
Here are the list of court documents I have been able to assemble so far. If anyone has additional documents with other findings, please feel free to share them.

Marijuana, ecstasy etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/120403irsw91307.pdf
Medicine bottles, item 515 and downwards:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/060804sdcontsheet.pdf
Page 14, line 15 - cocaine, demerol etc:
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/013105pltmotrd14itms.pdf
Lawsuit by Mickey Fines Pharmacy, lack of payment on bills; exceeding $100,000 dollars:
http://cdn.digitalcity.com/tmz_documents/m_jackson_prescripstions.pdf


well well, as for the marijuana and xtacy which were items 905 & 903 both were found together in the KITCHEN in a container . do you seriously believe they belonged to mj :smilerolleyes:seriously :scratch:(MJ was in vegas for more than a month when they raided his ranch )

as for the cocaine , yes sneedy ass said they traced it on mj's underwear and he said there was a blood strain on that unerwear , and the cocaine was found on two spots one of them the blood stain . so he concluded that the cocaine was both in mj's urine and blood . BUT the defense replied that NO cocaine was detected in that blood stain as snedyass claimed . so that "cocaine" did not belong to MJ but was implanted there .

demerol , yes mj had problems with demerol in 1993because of the burns and then the allegations . and he had a problem again in 2001-2002 .



Mikey Fine pharmacy : first of all MJ was not in the united states during the period they claimed they were not paid . he was in Bhrain where the sheiks are very known for obtaining whatever they want , mj did not need Mikey pharmacy help at all.

second, mikey pharmacy listed 50 names as people who were getting drugs and MJ had an agreement with them to pay for those people .
do you seriously believe the network to obtain drugs for mj consisted of 50 different people ? :smilerolleyes:

during that period Randy failed to pay the employees at neverland and they were getting their meds from that pharmacy .

finally , only ONE half empty bottle of demerol was found in neverland in 2003. but I'm not denying he had a problem with painkillers back then .

also they found two prescription drugs to Frank Tyson, alprazolam which is "Xanax" prescribed by klien and VanValin

and Zanax prescribed to Manual Rivera but this was found at a remote place of the ranch .

is it really hard to believe that Frank himself was taking the xnax not mj, frank was living there and believe it or not according to Bob Sanger the porno magazines belonged to Frank not to mj .


also very important thing those who will bother and read those motions filed by sneddon keep in mind that sneddon twisted everything in those motions and when these books recovered in the 2003 raid were presented to the jurors , they were not as sneddon described them in those motions , be sure there was never any chidlren in those books as he and his detective were claiming , they were adult men and Zonan kept saying they looked like teenagers so they were considered "children" .:smilerolleyes: yeah he said that when he questioned Wade and Barens, he kept telling them look at these children and they kept answering what children ? "those are men "

3 of the books were recovered from a CARDBOARD box from the library which was not even opened . many others were recovered from the library shelves and were ART BOOKS , but contain nudity . they went through the 4000 books and came back with the books that contained "nude" pics because they claimed they were evidence of "grooming " and "child molestation"

one book talks about men sexuality both hetro and homo and sneddon said it was a homosexual book , the 2 "homosexual books", which were infact photography books were sent to mj by very well known photographers one of them had photos of the jackson five and Liz Taylor . they wanted to offer their material in hope that MJ would hire them to do some job for him .
 
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Michael should not have been taking Propofol. He should have known better. But ultimately, it was the fault of the doctor who administered it to him so recklessly. And I don't think there is any purpose to trying to determine if Michael was an addict, or the degree to which his alleged addiction potentially escalated. We are clearly getting accounts from at least some untruthful people, and we have no way of knowing the truth.
My best friend died of an accidental prescription medication overdose. She was stressed and couldn't sleep. I don't know how long she had been doing it for. But I don't sit around trying to determine if she was an addict, because I will never know for sure. And I don't do it to Michael either.
 
Michael should not have been taking Propofol. He should have known better. But ultimately, it was the fault of the doctor who administered it to him so recklessly. And I don't think there is any purpose to trying to determine if Michael was an addict, or the degree to which his alleged addiction potentially escalated. We are clearly getting accounts from at least some untruthful people, and we have no way of knowing the truth.

Yes.This doctor has made a terrible and an unforgivable mistake. His whole life is ruined. But Michael was warned against the use of propofol by several people. Don't you wonder why all the warnings have fallen on deaf ears? Michael wasn't interested in the dangers of this drug. He only wanted to have this drug. At any price.

Furthermore, I think it's important to get an idea of the truth. I personally would like to know why I was taken away my chance to see my star on the stage. I need clarifications in order to cope with the situation.

In addition, the truth about a crime committed is always determined by the testimony of people, who can contribute something to the case. Whether these people to give truthful testimony is initially irrelevant. The truth turns out later. The overall effect of any statements made is crucial. Actually, this is the same, what we fans try to do in this forum.


My best friend died of an accidental prescription medication overdose. She was stressed and couldn't sleep. I don't know how long she had been doing it for. But I don't sit around trying to determine if she was an addict, because I will never know for sure. And I don't do it to Michael either.

Do you have accepted the death of your best friend without questioning it? I can't imagine.
Have you ever asked yourself how it could have gotten to that point.
Why did it happen? How could it come to such an absurd mistake? Weren't you angry? Haven't you asked yourself what you could have done.
 
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okay, can we all agree that he shouldn't have been taking the Propofol? he asked people to give it to him. VARIOUS people. Murray acquiesced and administered it. bad move, Murray. you should be in jail right now. but that does not mean Mike wasn't responsible in any way.

I've come to the sad conclusion that Michael just never ever should have performed again. It seems he was clean and healthy until he made that commitment to get back on stage. The chronic sleepless nights appear to have been triggered by that commitment which led to the propofol.

I've been in denial about it, but that's what I seriously believe now. MJ should have remained in permanent retirement.
 
Gerryevans, that is sp true,,,i think Mj should of stayed in retirement too as much as we missed him

the fact remains though, the
saso he should be held accountable for MJ death
 
I've come to the sad conclusion that Michael just never ever should have performed again. It seems he was clean and healthy until he made that commitment to get back on stage. The chronic sleepless nights appear to have been triggered by that commitment which led to the propofol.

I've been in denial about it, but that's what I seriously believe now. MJ should have remained in permanent retirement.

I have to disagree with you on this one. Michael WANTED to perform again, he WANTED to show his children want he said HE CAN STILL DO. And with the nights where he couldn't sleep, I get nights like that too sometimes, especially when I have these big creative ideas in my head, I want to stay up with them. So that was normal for Michael.

Michael probably never even asked for propofol. Just think about it, Michael is not here to say otherwise. All he has speaking for him now are shady people who contradict themselves. Hell no, I wouldn't believe those people. I could go on and explain more why I don't think he asked for the drug but it's too much and I don't feel like it.

Just imagine if Michael accidently died on the day he was convicted on child molestation. He would not be there to tell the truth and say otherwise. And EVERYONE, maybe even some fans, would believe he was a freak. But, Michael was alive. He told the truth. We heard his side and what he had to say. And now, the people know he was innoncent. (Although, us fans always knew he was, right?)

But now, Michael is not here. And people are saying that he asked for that deadly propofol even after so many different injections. However, Michael is not here. He cannot tell his side of the story. So now many are believing the whole propofol thing, because it is the only thing being said about him, this man who has been surrounded by lies nearly all his life.

Come on guys, I thought Michael's fans didn't fall for things like this.

Anyways, during the invincible era, Michael told his fans, "I PROMISE next time will be even better. I PROMISE."

That shows us right there that Michael wasn't planning to quit still. Plus, he doesn't break promises. He tried to make an album in 2005 but he was stopped. Then he was planning to not only make an album in 2009, but also the best tour in history, so he was killed.

And yes, Michael said he didn't want to grow very old and still perform like Jame's Brown and Fred Austere. But I remember Michael saying on his 50th Birthday, "I feel very young." Michael felt he was not too old, but young enough to do his final curtain call. To me, that's sound like the way he would want to do it anyways, with a final curtian call, not saying "im through. that's it" and retire. Michael was a professionalist.
 
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