General info about the Arvizos

[ILoveHIStory]

Redfrog at this point you are going in circles, spinning and twisting and I am getting bored by it so I am out of that.

yeah... Redfrog, you are very helpful in searching, but please, calm down, you are overjacksoned right now...., so stay focused on REAL things.

 

[redfrog]

Redfrog at this point you are going in circles, spinning and twisting and I am getting bored by it so I am out of that.

That's rich you were caught in contradictions you said one cannot say MJ never opened that book because he wrote an inscription inside the cover you compared notes in a book he was reading to the inscription in Boys and you accuse me of spinning and twisting.

You dismiss reasonable speculations as desperate at the same time you speculate that
MJ saw the pictures and kept both books anyway because "it's not only pedophiles who can have such books"
and "the inscription shows he looked at those pictures with innocence" and "he had an interest in art photography, vintage, rare art books".

Here's what you are missing:

There is not a shred of evidence that MJ would have knowingly kept any book full of pictures of nude boys, rare art book or not.
There is evidence to the contrary.
Forget about the suggestive pictures. He was asked about pictures of "boys who were undressed".
Watch his reaction. It's not only that he didn't remember those books and was genuinely surprised by the news
that they found them but he said the only way such books could be in his place is if he never opened them,
meaning if he never saw the pictures.

So the facts regarding those books are not inconclusive. It's conclusive that Mj was not interested in keeping
books with pics of naked boys, art or no art, innocent or not.

It's also conclusive that a pedophile would have used those books for sexual gratification, that's not speculation that's as much of a fact
as hetero guys using Playboy for the same thing. So the fact that MJ wasn't even interested in those books, didn't remember them
at all didn't get rid of them while he was being threatened with a police investigation is significant evidence
to show that he was not a pedophile.

That's why they need to imagine and speculate that MJ hid stuff before the raid. Ridiculous, unsubstantiated speculations. Let's not get dragged into it by similarly desperate counter-speculations.

They are not similarly desperate counter-speculations, not even close. How can you say they are?
Earlier you admitted it's not unreasonable to assume that he wrote that message to someone else
and as for clearing the house what haters say makes absolutely no sense: they say he was crazy
about those books for years, made sure they were in his bedroom in that file cabinet,
then hid stuff before the raid got rid of logs and everything dirty but left those books in his bedroom. Ridiculous.

However it's not ridiculous that a guilty person anticipating a police raid would get
rid of such books after being threatened with an investigation and you still dodge this simple question:
Do you honestly believe a mentally capable pedophile trying to clear his house of incriminating evidence would
make the mistake of leaving two such books he used for gratification for years in his bedroom?
Yes or no?

yeah... Redfrog, you are very helpful in searching, but please, calm down, you are overjacksoned right now...., so stay focused on REAL things.

LOL I like that word. The real thing is that all the facts about those books point to MJ absolutely not having any interest in obtaining and keeping any book with pics of nude boys and that is very relevant to prove he was not a pedophile especially when these two
books are frequently used to prove the opposite. Tell a non fan that the books are inconclusive evidence
and watch how convinced they will be that MJ didn't use those books to jerk off.

 

[terrell]

Redfrog at this point you are going in circles, spinning and twisting and I am getting bored by it so I am out of that.

The bottom line is, when you let yourself dragged into this so much you give it more importance than it really has - and that's exactly what haters want. To focus on things that don't really matter in themselves in the grand scheme of things and give them disproportionate importance and be consumed by those minor issues instead of focusing on the big picture because they know they lose there.

We can go around in circles about certain cherry-picked pics and speculate about how much of it MJ saw or remembered or whether he wanted to send them to someone or not until the cows go home, but thing is that's always going to be a speculation and speculations are easy to counter and shoot down with other speculations. They are not going anywhere. They just make you look desperate.

What is not a speculation is that the the books in themselves are inconclusive. Even haters know they are inconclusive. Why do you think they need a conspiracy theory about MJ hiding stuff before the raid? They know damn well that for this stuff to be conclusive they would need a LOT more of this and/or worse.

Yes, pedophiles can have these books, but also people can have these books who are not pedophiles, people who are simply interested in art photography, art history and vintage, rare art books. There is no evidence of the former when it comes to MJ, in fact, all the cases against him crumble one by one under scrutiny and in fact, it is not like he had an obsessive amount of such books. We are talking about two, one of which looks to be a gift from a fan. And in 2003 he didn't have them or similar again. Doesn't seem like a guy who was obsessed with this material like pedophiles are obsessed with these kind of things. On the other hand, there is a lot of evidence for his general interest in art, art photography, vintage, rare art books - that's the conext they were in, not in the context of an obsessive collection of pics of nude kids. IMO that's all you need to say about these books. Haters know the books in themselves are weak as evidence. That's why they need to imagine and speculate that MJ hid stuff before the raid. Ridiculous, unsubstantiated speculations. Let's not get dragged into it by similarly desperate counter-speculations.

I agree. I think also with issues like this people bring their own beliefs into these issue. To me. Michael was a heterosexual but he was a man of standard being raised under JW. He was in a business where people throw themselves at celebs with no morals and scheme (listen to Billie Jean) and did not want to be one of those types of men. He respected women. One woman I can really say MJ loved was Diana Ross (look at his actions around her even look who the kids were second to be left with. MJ loved Diana if he could have been her husband, he would have jumped of it). Some people have standards and do not sleep with everything including some men especially in this day and age. And many gay people sleep around just like hetreo people.

 

[KOPV]

I just don't get the debate with people that are on the same side.. I could only imagine how debates with haters would go.. All I know if I were a hater and I saw what I see in here.. I'd run further lol!