If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

[Mikky Dee]

That is another perpetuated myth.

Quincy Jones did like ‘Billie Jean’ & he wanted it on the album, too.

“… This whole fallacy, about me not liking ‘Billie Jean’ is a lie…” (Quincy Jones, Jian Ghomeshi interview)

That interview took place in 2014.

Who says it's a myth? Quincy Jones?? He has tried to rewrite history with much of what he has said about Michael and the music, ever since Michael hasn't been here, to correct him.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Yeah, quincy never hated Billie Jean. He just wanted the intro cut.

 

[Annita]

Re: sales

Michael wanted to name the album Smooth Criminal. Q was against such an album title, and nothing more.

Quincy did not like Smooth Criminal and did not want it on the album. He hated the song. You can hear the quote in the the Spike Lee docu.

 

[DuranDuran]

the ‘Thriller’ video would have never existed.

Well Mike was going to have the video destroyed because of the Jehovah's Witness leaders not approving of the theme. John Landis came up with the disclaimer idea.

 

[Fuzball]

Re: sales

Quincy did not like Smooth Criminal and did not want it on the album. He hated the song. You can hear the quote in the the Spike Lee docu.

Just LOL.

 

[83magic]

Re: sales

It would never not happen. It was destined to happen. If not on Thriller, then it would have been on another album. Let's remember that Quincy Jones didn't want it on Thriller....it was Michael who fought for it, by crying in Walter Yetnikoff's office.

Michael's mother Katherine also confirmed this in her first book 'my family, the jacksons'. she didn't mention the crying part, just that quincy didn't like it and Michael had to fight for it.

quincy was quite rude about the family in his autobiography. he referred to the jacksons albums/projects that came before and after 'off the wall' and 'thriller', as retaliations against him. he called Michael's brother Jackie a liar for telling cnn that once again, quincy didn't want 'billie jean' on the album. interestingly enough, there was nothing in his biography about Michael being a thief. on the contrary, he claimed that Michael was 'writing like a machine' during the 'thriller' sessions. this book was released when Michael was alive mind you...oh, how times change! *this* is why I don't trust anything that came after '09

 

[barbee0715]

Michael's mother Katherine also confirmed this in her first book 'my family, the jacksons'. she didn't mention the crying part, just that quincy didn't like it and Michael had to fight for it.

quincy was quite rude about the family in his autobiography. he referred to the jacksons albums/projects that came before and after 'off the wall' and 'thriller', as retaliations against him. he called Michael's brother Jackie a liar for telling cnn that once again, quincy didn't want 'billie jean' on the album. interestingly enough, there was nothing in his biography about Michael being a thief. on the contrary, he claimed that Michael was 'writing like a machine' during the 'thriller' sessions. this book was released when Michael was alive mind you...oh, how times change! *this* is why I don't trust anything that came after '09

I don't either. I go back to interviews that they made at the time when they were eager and happy to tell the back stories-back when they all considered themselves a team. That's why I dismiss anything that Q or Yetnikoff say now. They had plenty of time to tell their "stories" prior to 2009.

Well Mike was going to have the video destroyed because of the Jehovah's Witness leaders not approving of the theme. John Landis came up with the disclaimer idea.

Nope. It was John Branca that was holding on to the tapes and came up with the disclaimer idea. He lied and told Michael that Bela Lugosi was deeply religious and put disclaimers on his movies. Landis WROTE the disclaimer-against his will, he says.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Just because it was said in an interview does not mean it was the truth. Although, I think everyone knows Quincy wanted Billie Jean, just not the intro, hence the shaving comment.

Who says it's a myth? Quincy Jones?? He has tried to rewrite history with much of what he has said about Michael and the music, ever since Michael hasn't been here, to correct him.

Yeah, quincy never hated Billie Jean. He just wanted the intro cut.

Quincy Jones publicly said several times that he liked ‘Billie Jean’ & he wanted it on the album.

He said that before & after 2009.

That 2014 interview quote that I posted was just one of his quotes about that.

Well Mike was going to have the video destroyed because of the Jehovah's Witness leaders not approving of the theme. John Landis came up with the disclaimer idea.

Nope. It was John Branca that was holding on to the tapes and came up with the disclaimer idea. He lied and told Michael that Bela Lugosi was deeply religious and put disclaimers on his movies. Landis WROTE the disclaimer-against his will, he says.

John Branca came up with the disclaimer idea because this is also what John Randy Taraborrelli wrote in his book (‘The Magic & The Madness’).

MJ immediately accepted that Branca’s idea.

Also, it was George Folsey Jr (who at the time was John Landis’ producer) who came up with an idea about its financing.

If MTV & Showtime wanted to air the ‘Thriller’ video (along with the ‘The Making of Thriller’ video), these two networks had to cover most of the costs of the production of the two videos.

MTV & Showtime agreed on that.

 

[83magic]

Michael wasn't anyone's puppet - especially during 'thriller'. he may have been soft spoken, but he was direct and clear about what he wanted. as shown here:

Motown 25 would have ended with the j5 medley (which was good enough) had Michael not insisted on performing 'billie jean'. the song didn't need promotion because it had already been to number one in the u.s and u.k. yet he took it upon himself to make the most of an opportunity to create a *moment* that was magical!

'thriller' saved the record industry, which was in a slump in the early '80s. yet as early as feb '83 (before the 'beat it' video!), he is being noted as the exception. which is why this interviewer was trying to figure out his formula for being popular in all music markets.

this video is from june '83, before the 'thriller' film, or even 'say say say' was filmed! Michael and quincy receive a platinum disc. the album is already one of the biggest in the world (probably *the* biggest studio one by a solo artist) at this point. the look of relief and elation in Michael's face says it all

 

[dam2040]

John Branca came up with the disclaimer idea because this is also what John Randy Taraborrelli wrote in his book (‘The Magic & The Madness&#8217.

Yeah, we all know how great that book is. That thing has been a laughing stock for years.

 

[83magic]

Michael had to fight for co-production credits on the songs that he wrote! quincy didn't want to give that to him. if we listen to this demo of 'beat it', the song was already there before anybody else got their hands on it. the only instrument heard is Michael's voice. yet we have (some) lyrics, harmonies, bass, beats, guitar line, and overall structure. it was his vision from the start.

in the video, it was his idea to have the gang members emerge from the sewer. an idea that he reused in 'thriller', as told by director bob geraldi @5:32 notice how he mentions 'peter pan'? that movie *was* meant to be his next project in place of 'thriller'.

in the book 'I want my mtv', bob geraldi also claimed that the two of them around drove in a van scouting out dangerous locations to shoot in. Michael was always involved in his career - especially during this time.

 

[83magic]

proof that 'thriller' was already the biggest selling album of all time, before the film was made

from the mouth of john landis @5:40. 'thriller' had already been the biggest album of all time before the film was shot. it was starting to slide down the charts, which is why the record company did not want to pay for the film. the campaign had already been *beyond* successful. *note* if you are going to watch the whole clip, beware of profanity and some unflattering commentary

I love how he mentions the videos 'billie jean' and 'beat it' . those, along with 'say say say', redefined the format. each new release from that time added a new element. 'say say say' was the first to have dialogue between the characters. it's the ones before 'thriller' that need more credit in my opinion. all the way back to 'blame it on the boogie'

 

[Fuzball]

'thriller' had already been the biggest album of all time before the film was shot. it was starting to slide down the charts, which is why the record company did not want to pay for the film.

Seriously, do you really think, after 30 plus x years, Landis did exactly recall sales figures and their dates?

By November, it had sold 16 million copies worldwide and 10 million in the U.S. alone. It had also become the first nonsoundtrack LP to spawn five Top Ten singles: “The Girl Is Mine,” “Billie Jean,” “Beat It,” “Wanna Be Starting Something” and “Human Nature,” with “P.Y.T.” looking to make it six.

Rolling Stone, 12/22/1983

Jackson’s Thriller album has sold more than 25 million copies worldwide – more than Grease, more than Saturday Night Fever, more than any other album in history. Thriller makes even Jackson’s previous LP, Off the Wall, which sold 8 million copies, look like something of a stiff. In the one year and two months since its release, 15 million copies of Thriller have been sold in the United States alone. The LP has gone platinum in fourteen foreign countries, gold in seven more. The record is unstoppable. In January, right after Michael swept the American Music Awards, more than a million copies of Thriller were sold in just one five-day period. The following week, after his accident in L.A., over 700,000 copies were sold.

Rolling Stone, 03/15/1984

 

[mj_frenzy]

Michael had to fight for co-production credits on the songs that he wrote!

What about all those undue co-credits that MJ took during his career (co-production but also co-writing ones)?

What about MJ’s unreasonable demands for getting excessive royalties payments for his albums (including the ‘Thriller’ album)?

What about MJ’s odd desires for not wanting Quincy Jones to get any Grammy Awards for the ‘Thriller’ album?

Michael's Essence, the fact that you are not willing to accept anything negative about MJ does not allow me to take you seriously.

That is all I have to say to you.

Yeah, we all know how great that book is. That thing has been a laughing stock for years.

Concerning 'The Magic & The Madness', most of the information that comes from the first half of that book is accurate, detailed & reliable.

The problems have to do mainly with its second half, where the author’s sensationalism really takes off.

 

[KOPV]

I did not expect this to become a debate..

Thriller sold amazingly before the thrilled video, a large portion of its sales were before the video..

From Feb 1983 to April 1984 it stayed number one.. 37 weeks!! Thriller video was released december 1983..

That means that it spent more time at number one without the thriller video than with it..

The album became #1 in Feb 1984..

Do the math, while thriller video helped and was a huge part of the era. The album was killing it without it

 

[ChrisC]

What about all those undue co-credits that MJ took during his career (co-production but also co-writing ones)?

What about MJ’s unreasonable demands for getting excessive royalties payments for his albums (including the ‘Thriller’ album)?

What about MJ’s odd desires for not wanting Quincy Jones to get any Grammy Awards for the ‘Thriller’ album?

Michael's Essence, the fact that you are not willing to accept anything negative about MJ does not allow me to take you seriously.

That is all I have to say to you.

To be honest, it's you who I can't take seriously. Some of the points you make might actually be worth discussion, but you discredit them with baseless garbage like what about Michael's 'odd desires'. The kind of nonsense that appears to have been plucked from either thin air or some National Enquirer article.

You also seem to accept everyone's word at the drop of a hat provided it presents Michael in a negative light. Yet treat Michael's side, or a positive remark, with extreme suspicion and scepticism.

I rarely ever like to cross the line into what could be considered personal on here but you are being extremely unfair.

 

[travis3000]

What about all those undue co-credits that MJ took during his career (co-production but also co-writing ones)?

What about MJ’s unreasonable demands for getting excessive royalties payments for his albums (including the ‘Thriller’ album)?

What about MJ’s odd desires for not wanting Quincy Jones to get any Grammy Awards for the ‘Thriller’ album?

Michael's Essence, the fact that you are not willing to accept anything negative about MJ does not allow me to take you seriously.

That is all I have to say to you.



Concerning 'The Magic & The Madness', most of the information that comes from the first half of that book is accurate, detailed & reliable.

The problems have to do mainly with its second half, where the author’s sensationalism really takes off.

I don't know why you're on a Michael Jackson fan club site , you seem to treat any negative word about MJ like the gospel, but any positive info you question and doubt. Nobody here is trying to say MJ was perfect, but you seem to be on a mission to smear his name and focus on only negative hearsay.

 

[dam2040]

I don't know why you're on a Michael Jackson fan club site , you seem to treat any negative word about MJ like the gospel, but any positive info you question and doubt. Nobody here is trying to say MJ was perfect, but you seem to be on a mission to smear his name and focus on only negative hearsay.

I don't mean for this to become a Lynch mob by any means, but this poster previously said MJ had it easy growing up because he was the centre of attention and exaggerated being assaulted by his father.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Nobody here is trying to say MJ was perfect, but you seem to be on a mission to smear his name and focus on only negative hearsay.

Am I on a mission to smear his name & focus on only negative hearsay?

That particular comment is really funny. That makes me laugh.

To be honest, it's you who I can't take seriously. Some of the points you make might actually be worth discussion, but you discredit them with baseless garbage like what about Michael's 'odd desires'. The kind of nonsense that appears to have been plucked from either thin air or some National Enquirer article.

You also seem to accept everyone's word at the drop of a hat provided it presents Michael in a negative light. Yet treat Michael's side, or a positive remark, with extreme suspicion and scepticism.

I rarely ever like to cross the line into what could be considered personal on here but you are being extremely unfair.

I don't know why you're on a Michael Jackson fan club site , you seem to treat any negative word about MJ like the gospel, but any positive info you question and doubt. Nobody here is trying to say MJ was perfect, but you seem to be on a mission to smear his name and focus on only negative hearsay.

Co-credits that people deserved to have on MJ’s certain songs, they eventually did not get them.

Check out musicians from whom MJ took certain elements without their permission, or he did not credit them rightfully on certain songs.

One example is, of course, the Cameroonian musician Manu Dibango, whose "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa" hook (from his 1972 'Soul Makossa' song) was used without his permission in ‘Wanna Be Startin' Somethin’.

MJ himself admitted that he borrowed the hook with that line. MJ eventually settled out of court.

Or, check out songs that MJ took sole credit when he did not deserve it.

I will give to both of you a very characteristic example about that.

MJ took sole credit for writing the lines of ‘Little Susie’. But certain lines of that song are identical to the ones included on ‘The Bridge Of Sighs’ which is a poem by Thomas Hood (1844).

In general, there are many other similar cases throughout his career (not negative hearsay, but verified facts), which personally I cannot ignore.

 

[dam2040]

MJ took sole credit for writing the lines of ‘Little Susie’. But certain lines of that song are identical to the ones included on ‘The Bridge Of Sighs’ which is a poem by Thomas Hood (1844)..

<address style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; caret-color: rgb(71, 71, 71); color: rgb(71, 71, 71); font-family: &quot;Myriad Pro&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-position: 0px 0px;">She lies there so tenderly </address><address style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; caret-color: rgb(71, 71, 71); color: rgb(71, 71, 71); font-family: &quot;Myriad Pro&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-position: 0px 0px;">Fashioned so slenderly</address><address style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; caret-color: rgb(71, 71, 71); color: rgb(71, 71, 71); font-family: &quot;Myriad Pro&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-position: 0px 0px;">Lift her with care</address><address style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; caret-color: rgb(71, 71, 71); color: rgb(71, 71, 71); font-family: &quot;Myriad Pro&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-position: 0px 0px;">So young and so fair

vs

<address style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: 0px 0px;">Take her up tenderly</address><address style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: 0px 0px;"> Lift her with care;</address><address style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: 0px 0px;">Fashion&#8217;d so slenderly</address><address style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: 0px 0px;"> Young and so fair!</address></address>

 

[Fuzball]

Re: sales

edited

 

[ChrisC]

Co-credits that people deserved to have on MJ&#8217;s certain songs, they eventually did not get them.

Check out musicians from whom MJ took certain elements without their permission, or he did not credit them rightfully on certain songs.

One example is, of course, the Cameroonian musician Manu Dibango, whose "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa" hook (from his 1972 'Soul Makossa' song) was used without his permission in &#8216;Wanna Be Startin' Somethin&#8217;.

MJ himself admitted that he borrowed the hook with that line. MJ eventually settled out of court.

Or, check out songs that MJ took sole credit when he did not deserve it.

I will give to both of you a very characteristic example about that.

MJ took sole credit for writing the lines of &#8216;Little Susie&#8217;. But certain lines of that song are identical to the ones included on &#8216;The Bridge Of Sighs&#8217; which is a poem by Thomas Hood (1844).

In general, there are many other similar cases throughout his career (not negative hearsay, but verified facts), which personally I cannot ignore.

You've quoted me. But I can't understand why.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Thriller was a perfect storm and I honestly feel if any one of the main parts of it were different then things could have been veery different

 

[Zeus7]

What about all those undue co-credits that MJ took during his career (co-production but also co-writing ones)?

What about MJ&#8217;s unreasonable demands for getting excessive royalties payments for his albums (including the &#8216;Thriller&#8217; album)?
.

I wouldn't call that unreasonable, I'd call that business. Every musician negotiates with their label, Michael made his label much more than other artists so why not negiotate higher royalties? He got 27% for Dangerous, Madonna as remember got 22% in the same period

 

[mj_frenzy]

I wouldn't call that unreasonable, I'd call that business. Every musician negotiates with their label, Michael made his label much more than other artists so why not negiotate higher royalties? He got 27% for Dangerous, Madonna as remember got 22% in the same period

Good point about being business.

But, no matter how you slice it, his royalty rates still were unreasonable & excessive, not only for his &#8216;Dangerous&#8217; album but also for his previous adult albums (including &#8216;Thriller&#8217.

Not to mention that he often took advantage of his powerful business position by not giving due credits to musicians who contributed to his songs.

In most cases, these musicians were not as powerful as him, so they could not get what they deserved (in terms of credits).

One example of the many is C.J. DeVillar, who although contributed to the &#8216;Break Of Dawn&#8217; song, in the end he was not credited on that song.

The reason is that C.J. DeVillar lacked adequate representation at the time (management, lawyers, etc), so MJ took advantage of his weak position.

I could easily compile & post here a concise, bullet point list of 100+ similar cases during MJ&#8217;s career, but that would upset many of you.

 

[Annita]

You should give yourself a few intentions for the next year and put your life a more meaningful perspective than spreading hate and defamation. Sad that some is not even on Christmas able to stop it.

 

[mj_frenzy]

You should give yourself a few intentions for the next year and put your life a more meaningful perspective than spreading hate and defamation. Sad that some is not even on Christmas able to stop it.

You do talk a lot of crap, as usual.

 

[KOPV]

^ some people will act out of hate for love of michael..

Ironic isnt it?

 

[blair]

I am not looking for any way to diminish MJ.

What I am saying is that if Frank Dileo had never proposed that video & had never pressed MJ for shooting it, the &#8216;Thriller&#8217; video would have never existed.

Who fronted how much money (for that video) was a rather secondary matter which would have been resolved in one way or another.

That not true, at least according Bruce Swieden and Quincy Jones, we have just one source for this claim, Dileo himself, so imo not really credible, specially because he have said that after the Jackson death, for Bruce and Quincy quotes, see that here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...ler-video-changed-face-music-nearly-made.html

"Bruce continued: 'Michael always wanted to make movies really as well as record records. Michael wanted to make a video that was a complete story, like a mini-movie&#8230; and that is what he did. Thriller was the perfect vehicle for that.'"

Quincy Jones:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/michael-jackson-25-1217514

"recalled the making of the video.

&#8220;Michael had no idea what we were doing there, man, with &#8216;Thriller&#8217;,&#8221; he said, reports The Hollywood Reporter. &#8220;You know, with Vincent Price there and Edgar Allan Poe narration, and stuff like that. There&#8217;s crazy stuff on there. And people didn&#8217;t get it until, I&#8217;d say, eight months later.&#8221; "

So these two quotes seem to prove that a music video for Thriller, at least potentially, was already in place during the recording scession of the song, there are also the fact that Michael have already done a very short movie with the song "Can you feel it", so it was not something new for him, it was also his decision to hire Landis because he loved the Werewolf in London movie, he co-wrote the story etc..., so for me these elements speak for themselves.

Co-credits that people deserved to have on MJ&#8217;s certain songs, they eventually did not get them.

Check out musicians from whom MJ took certain elements without their permission, or he did not credit them rightfully on certain songs.

One example is, of course, the Cameroonian musician Manu Dibango, whose "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa" hook (from his 1972 'Soul Makossa' song) was used without his permission in &#8216;Wanna Be Startin' Somethin&#8217;.

MJ himself admitted that he borrowed the hook with that line. MJ eventually settled out of court.

Well I know very well this case, first no, Dibango in his song don't say "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa", it was Michael, Dibango say: "Mamako-mamasa-mako-makossa", there are Mamasa, and maybe two "Mama" who comeback in the two version, the problem makossa is the name of a musical style, the traduction is "I dance", so that real words not created by Dibango (used multiples time before him, in songs too), also Jackson say "Macoosa", not "makossa", the sound is different; a strong inspiration, yes, but he didn't take it directly; and he could have changed very easily with other african sound words.

For the Rythm, the chorus etc... of the two songs, they are completly different; see yourself the part of Dibango song (in the intro of Makossa):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWK_Josc0Og

Jackson (around 4min40):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KWf_-ofYgI&index=39&list=LLlqELlQYeoNb9gBi_rnA5Gg&t=0s

If it's an a copy, so we can say the same thing for Heartbreak Hotel because that have the same title that the Elvis song, also to settle in court mean nothing, just they have found a compromise; I would like to put a quote about this subject:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/prog-god-2016-jon-anderson-in-his-own-words

"There&#8217;s my classic story of how we inspired Michael Jackson&#8217;s Thriller. Quincy [Jones] told me that he and Michael had been listening to our [Jon & Vangelis&#8217;] album The Friends Of Mr. Cairo. They took the riff and made it funky for Billie Jean. Quincy said he&#8217;d been recording our song State Of Independence with Donna Summer, and I said he had an incredible guy singing backing vocals. He said, &#8216;That guy was Michael &#8211; we were both digging your album!&#8217; So that&#8217;s kinda cool, that cross-pollination in music. Yes were always doing things like that: jazz fusion, classical fusion. "

Imo that the difference between take inspiration and to copy, imo for the "Mama-say", it was an inspiration, not a direct copy.


For the album Thriller, well Temperton himself say Jackson was the force behind the project, yes he was not alone, but it was clearly the main force, for example it was more or less his decision, with the inspiration of "this place hotel", to turn starlight into an horror song.

http://im4mj.blogspot.com/2013/09/quincy-jones-bruce-swedien-rod.html

&#8220;He always sat on top of the beat and really pushed it along and gave it a lot of melody,&#8221; described the British songwriter Rod Temperton, responsible for penning classic tunes including Rock with You, Off the Wall and Thriller.

&#8220;Writing for him, I knew he loved songs with a strong melody with a lot of short notes in it. The other thing I noticed about Michael is that he loved a lot of vocal harmonies on the song, so that was something I included. I always tried to make the words melt into the melody.&#8221;

&#8220;There was no one like him,&#8221; Jones said. &#8220;He focused on everything he did and he would never give up. I have never seen anyone like him.&#8221; Temperton believes Jackson&#8217;s personality was largely responsible for the magic on the albums.

&#8220;All the inspiration was driven by Michael,&#8221; said Temperton. &#8220;He was a very quiet man off the stage but once that tape rolls, you realise no one has that electric energy that he had.&#8221;

 

[mj_frenzy]

Well I know very well this case, first no, Dibango in his song don't say "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa", it was Michael, Dibango say: "Mamako-mamasa-mako-makossa", there are Mamasa, and maybe two "Mama" who comeback in the two version, the problem makossa is the name of a musical style, the traduction is "I dance", so that real words not created by Dibango (used multiples time before him, in songs too), also Jackson say "Macoosa", not "makossa"

I know that there are subtle differences in the syllables in that hook (in these two songs).

I just wanted to present the Dibango case in one sentence, so I avoided getting into such details which do not change the fact.

That not true, at least according Bruce Swieden and Quincy Jones, we have just one source for this claim, Dileo himself, so imo not really credible, specially because he have said that after the Jackson death, for Bruce and Quincy quotes, see that here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...ler-video-changed-face-music-nearly-made.html

"Bruce continued: 'Michael always wanted to make movies really as well as record records. Michael wanted to make a video that was a complete story, like a mini-movie&#8230; and that is what he did. Thriller was the perfect vehicle for that.'"

Quincy Jones:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/michael-jackson-25-1217514

"recalled the making of the video.

&#8220;Michael had no idea what we were doing there, man, with &#8216;Thriller&#8217;,&#8221; he said, reports The Hollywood Reporter. &#8220;You know, with Vincent Price there and Edgar Allan Poe narration, and stuff like that. There&#8217;s crazy stuff on there. And people didn&#8217;t get it until, I&#8217;d say, eight months later.&#8221; "

So these two quotes seem to prove that a music video for Thriller, at least potentially, was already in place during the recording scession of the song, there are also the fact that Michael have already done a very short movie with the song "Can you feel it", so it was not something new for him, it was also his decision to hire Landis because he loved the Werewolf in London movie, he co-wrote the story etc..., so for me these elements speak for themselves.

Frank Dileo&#8217;s contribution to the success of the &#8216;Thiller&#8217; album was huge (at that time he was Vice President of Promotions at Epic Records).

But especially Dileo&#8217;s idea about shooting & releasing the &#8216;Thriller&#8217; video, which boosted even more sales of the album.

It was because of those contributions that MJ thought that he should hire him as his manager, which he did in March (1984).

Dileo himself, so imo not really credible, specially because he have said that after the Jackson death

All your quotes you posted come after MJ&#8217;s death, too.

For the album Thriller, well Temperton himself say Jackson was the force behind the project, yes he was not alone, but it was clearly the main force, for example it was more or less his decision, with the inspiration of "this place hotel", to turn starlight into an horror song.

http://im4mj.blogspot.com/2013/09/quincy-jones-bruce-swedien-rod.html

&#8220;He always sat on top of the beat and really pushed it along and gave it a lot of melody,&#8221; described the British songwriter Rod Temperton, responsible for penning classic tunes including Rock with You, Off the Wall and Thriller.

&#8220;Writing for him, I knew he loved songs with a strong melody with a lot of short notes in it. The other thing I noticed about Michael is that he loved a lot of vocal harmonies on the song, so that was something I included. I always tried to make the words melt into the melody.&#8221;

&#8220;There was no one like him,&#8221; Jones said. &#8220;He focused on everything he did and he would never give up. I have never seen anyone like him.&#8221; Temperton believes Jackson&#8217;s personality was largely responsible for the magic on the albums.

&#8220;All the inspiration was driven by Michael,&#8221; said Temperton. &#8220;He was a very quiet man off the stage but once that tape rolls, you realise no one has that electric energy that he had.&#8221;

Do not rely on such public, positive events (like the MJ&#8217;s part of the 2013 Dubai Music week festival), when you want to gather unbiased, reliable information about MJ.

The aim of such events is to portray MJ in a positive light because they want to promote his posthumous legacy.

They even advertise that particular aim they serve.

Also, Bruce Swedien always butters MJ up, so, do not take everything he says about MJ as fact.

Well I know very well this case, first no, Dibango in his song don't say "mama-say mama-sa mama-coo-sa", it was Michael, Dibango say: "Mamako-mamasa-mako-makossa", there are Mamasa, and maybe two "Mama" who comeback in the two version, the problem makossa is the name of a musical style, the traduction is "I dance", so that real words not created by Dibango (used multiples time before him, in songs too), also Jackson say "Macoosa", not "makossa", the sound is different; a strong inspiration, yes, but he didn't take it directly; and he could have changed very easily with other african sound words.

For the Rythm, the chorus etc... of the two songs, they are completly different; see yourself the part of Dibango song (in the intro of Makossa):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWK_Josc0Og

Jackson (around 4min40):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KWf_-ofYgI&index=39&list=LLlqELlQYeoNb9gBi_rnA5Gg&t=0s

If it's an a copy, so we can say the same thing for Heartbreak Hotel because that have the same title that the Elvis song, also to settle in court mean nothing, just they have found a compromise; I would like to put a quote about this subject:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/prog-god-2016-jon-anderson-in-his-own-words

"There&#8217;s my classic story of how we inspired Michael Jackson&#8217;s Thriller. Quincy [Jones] told me that he and Michael had been listening to our [Jon & Vangelis&#8217;] album The Friends Of Mr. Cairo. They took the riff and made it funky for Billie Jean. Quincy said he&#8217;d been recording our song State Of Independence with Donna Summer, and I said he had an incredible guy singing backing vocals. He said, &#8216;That guy was Michael &#8211; we were both digging your album!&#8217; So that&#8217;s kinda cool, that cross-pollination in music. Yes were always doing things like that: jazz fusion, classical fusion. "

Imo that the difference between take inspiration and to copy, imo for the "Mama-say", it was an inspiration, not a direct copy.

MJ settled the Dibango case out of court not because they found a compromise, but because he knew he would lose the case, so he wanted to avoid further, huge legal damages.