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It looks like 3D version of the Munich 1997 concert was made years ago

ScreenOrigami;4300648 said:
I’m saying that the constant negativity is exhausting. It’s ok not to like something, but why bring it up over and over again? It’s not possible to have a conversation without someone jumping in and bashing whatever is being talked about. This forum is turning into a negativity echo chamber because all the positive people quit posting.
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I agree and i don't even like the history tour but i appreciate michael for doing the tour anyway even though i feel he should of stay at home until he had recover. we all have opinions but we all need to agree and disagree respectfully. half us are middle age adults forgot their manners from their parents.
 
I agree with ScreenOrigami. I do not understand the knee-jerk hostility against a release of this tour.

On the issue of lipsync, I totally understand the disagreement with the use of this method. You may see it as laziness, complacency, etc. But the fact is some of Michael Jackson's most celebrated live performances are 100% lipsynced: Billie Jean at Motown 25 (arguably his most famous performance ever), Super Bowl 1993, MTV Awards 1995, every major Dangerous performance ever. The fact is the vast majority of people either don't care or don't notice. I've always found this news clip of HIStory Tour Thailand coverage humourous because to us MJ is obviously using playback, but the reporter is either being sarcastic or has no idea.


(the part I'm referring to starts at 9:00)

The things you cannot take away from this particular concert in Munich is that it has arguably the best ever performances of Scream, TDCAU, Smooth Criminal and Earth Song. It also has amazing performances of Stranger in Moscow, Billie Jean, Dangerous and HIStory that deserve to be seen. Obviously the vocals are not up to MJ's standards, which is why I previously mentioned perhaps all croaky live vocals should be dubbed with a better sounding HIStory Tour concert.

Every YouTube video you see of this concert, which tend to have tens if not hundreds of millions of views, talk nothing but praise of Michael Jackson and his performance. This tour is very special and dear to the hearts of millions of Michael Jackson fans, including myself. I am willing to admit I am biased in favour of this tour :D but that doesn't mean my points aren't valid. And say what you want about the quality of the July 16, 1988 concert, at least the Bad and Dangerous tours have an official release from them. This tour deserves a release too. If Munich 3D is how we get it, then I'm all for it. I just hope they dub the live vocals :)

P.S. I am also pro #MJBadTourHD and forgot to mention that the quality of Michael's dancing on this tour is not something that can be denied. It is simply astounding.
 
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NatureCriminal7896;4300653 said:
I agree and i don't even like the history tour but i appreciate michael for doing the tour anyway even though i feel he should of stay at home until he had recover. we all have opinions but we all need to agree and disagree respectfully. half us are middle age adults forgot their manners from their parents.
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Yeah, I agree. But staying home is easier said than done with such a huge production. Just imagine having to re-schedule all the dates and re-book all the arenas. That would surely lead to a substantial financial loss.

And then they had multiples of everything involving the stage set-up, so they would be able to begin setting up the stage in one city while the concert in the previous city was going on. I bet they had at least three complete stages traveling the globe in freight planes.

And all the people hired, hotels and flights booked, catering ordered etc.

All of this has to be organized months in advance. Postponing a tour like this is an organizational and financial nightmare. And now imagine you – as the center of the whole show – are the single point of failure. I can totally see why you’d play it as safe as possible. Especially if the previous tour had already ended in trouble.
 
I agree. but michael was also human. i'm not sure how much money he had at the time but staying home until he recover wouldn't hurt him. michael was pretty much billionaire around this time.
 
Snek;4300656 said:
I agree with ScreenOrigami. I do not understand the knee-jerk hostility against a release of this tour.

On the issue of lipsync, I totally understand the disagreement with the use of this method. You may see it as laziness, complacency, etc. But the fact is some of Michael Jackson's most celebrated live performances are 100% lipsynced: Billie Jean at Motown 25 (arguably his most famous performance ever), Super Bowl 1993, MTV Awards 1995, every major Dangerous performance ever. The fact is the vast majority of people either don't care or don't notice.
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That’s true.

I’m personally still struggling with the concept of lipsycing. Coming from the rock & metal world where this would be an absolute no-go, I was surprised to learn that this is a common thing in other genres. So, I’m still working on this, in a way. But I’m on my way of coming to terms with it. :D

I think it always depends on what you want to achieve. The HIStory tour was clearly conceived as a theatrical show with a lot of focus on the dance. Maybe this was the whole idea: to offer enough eye-candy that the singing wouldn’t matter so much anymore. You don’t want to have to cancel shows left and right because your voice isn’t cooperating.

Thanks for the video, I hadn’t seen that one yet. :)
 
Nite Line;4300609 said:
I'm not spoiling the fun for others. I'm just giving my opinion about History Tour in 3D, which I have every right to. I have an issue with some fans thinking that everything Michael did in his career was perfect and any fans giving a valid criticism of a tour or even an album is called "whiners".
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What's "valid" criticism, though? It's all subjective, really. For me, it's not about the whining so much. It's the implication from the people who have criticisms about something in particular, that they are thinking on a higher plane than those who don't have criticisms. There is a tendency to label people who want to embrace something and take joy from it, as empty-headed "stans" and that I cannot abide. The word STAN was used right here in this thread as some kind of put down. That approach creates unnecessary negativity and division, in my opinion.

Discuss your opinions, share your ideas and thoughts, launch your criticisms and your praise, by all means and support them with your evidence....but please don't cut someone down to the implied level of a (crazy) stan, just because they want to look for the good in something.

ScreenOrigami;4300621 said:
I’m not saying everything has to be loved. That’s putting words in my mouth that I never said. I’m only advocating for a little less negativity on what is supposed to be a fan forum.
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I applaud you and I agree.
 
In my opinion i take any tour in 3D then this tour. i don't even like the Dangerous tour but i prefer that then this tour i'm just being honest. i think doing tours in 3D would be cool that what michael was planned on doing for this is it. i love Bad25 and feel all project should be like it. i didn't see thriller in 3D but i agree they need to release that and other short films HD and 3D which gonna take alot work and time it's way past overdue.
 
Snek said:
I agree with ScreenOrigami. I do not understand the knee-jerk hostility against a release of this tour.

On the issue of lipsync, I totally understand the disagreement with the use of this method. You may see it as laziness, complacency, etc. But the fact is some of Michael Jackson's most celebrated live performances are 100% lipsynced: Billie Jean at Motown 25 (arguably his most famous performance ever), Super Bowl 1993, MTV Awards 1995, every major Dangerous performance ever. The fact is the vast majority of people either don't care or don't notice. I've always found this news clip of HIStory Tour Thailand coverage humourous because to us MJ is obviously using playback, but the reporter is either being sarcastic or has no idea.


(the part I'm referring to starts at 9:00)

The things you cannot take away from this particular concert in Munich is that it has arguably the best ever performances of Scream, TDCAU, Smooth Criminal and Earth Song. It also has amazing performances of Stranger in Moscow, Billie Jean, Dangerous and HIStory that deserve to be seen. Obviously the vocals are not up to MJ's standards, which is why I previously mentioned perhaps all croaky live vocals should be dubbed with a better sounding HIStory Tour concert.

Every YouTube video you see of this concert, which tend to have tens if not hundreds of millions of views, talk nothing but praise of Michael Jackson and his performance. This tour is very special and dear to the hearts of millions of Michael Jackson fans, including myself. I am willing to admit I am biased in favour of this tour :D but that doesn't mean my points aren't valid. And say what you want about the quality of the July 16, 1988 concert, at least the Bad and Dangerous tours have an official release from them. This tour deserves a release too. If Munich 3D is how we get it, then I'm all for it. I just hope they dub the live vocals :)

P.S. I am also pro #MJBadTourHD and forgot to mention that the quality of Michael's dancing on this tour is not something that can be denied. It is simply astounding.
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Fair points but I will continue to respectfully disagree on munich needing a release. Destiny, Triumph, Victory, HD Bad tour deserve a release first. I really dont see a reason to waste time and $ on something that is already all over youtube with millions of views and broadcast on TV. History tour fans are blessed with dozens of concerts while theres barely any from previous tours in comparison. However, I dont have a problem with an edited best of show included in some sort of anniversary package. Honestly, give me Bad tour on Bluray and I wouldnt care what they do next lol
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Fair points but I will continue to respectfully disagree on munich needing a release. Destiny, Triumph, Victory, HD Bad tour deserve a release first. I really dont see a reason to waste time and $ on something that is already all over youtube with millions of views and broadcast on TV. History tour fans are blessed with dozens of concerts while theres barely any from previous tours in comparison. However, I dont have a problem with an edited best of show included in some sort of anniversary package. Honestly, give me Bad tour on Bluray and I wouldnt care what they do next lol
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Same.
 
Snek said:
I agree with ScreenOrigami. I do not understand the knee-jerk hostility against a release of this tour.

On the issue of lipsync, I totally understand the disagreement with the use of this method. You may see it as laziness, complacency, etc. But the fact is some of Michael Jackson's most celebrated live performances are 100% lipsynced: Billie Jean at Motown 25 (arguably his most famous performance ever), Super Bowl 1993, MTV Awards 1995, every major Dangerous performance ever. The fact is the vast majority of people either don't care or don't notice. I've always found this news clip of HIStory Tour Thailand coverage humourous because to us MJ is obviously using playback, but the reporter is either being sarcastic or has no idea.
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People usually understand if tv show and awards show performances are lip-synced. Concerts are different. I think most expect them to be live.
 
Snek;4300656 said:
Every YouTube video you see of this concert, which tend to have tens if not hundreds of millions of views, talk nothing but praise of Michael Jackson and his performance.
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That is because negative comments get deleted by the owner of a YouTube channel where these videos are uploaded on, thus only the favourable ones stay.

Snek;4300656 said:
The things you cannot take away from this particular concert in Munich is that it has arguably the best ever performances of Scream, TDCAU, Smooth Criminal and Earth Song. It also has amazing performances of Stranger in Moscow, Billie Jean, Dangerous and HIStory that deserve to be seen. Obviously the vocals are not up to MJ's standards, which is why I previously mentioned perhaps all croaky live vocals should be dubbed with a better sounding HIStory Tour concert.
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There were better performances of these songs from the HIStory Tour that come from 1996.

The 1996 leg was generally better compared to the 1997 leg, and in particular the 1996 Kaohsiung HIStory concert which has been described as probably the best concert from the entire HIStory Tour.

Also, keep in mind that in the two Munich HIStory concerts in 1997, Michael Jackson was suffering from flu, and he was on medication in order to perform those two concerts, which clearly affected adversely his dance moves.

There is also the ‘Smooth Criminal’ lean accident from one of his backup dancers in the Munich concert, which was among the reasons for the cancellation of that concert’s release at that time.
 
Mikky Dee;4300675 said:
It's the implication from the people who have criticisms about something in particular, that they are thinking on a higher plane than those who don't have criticisms. There is a tendency to label people who want to embrace something and take joy from it, as an empty-headed "stan" and that I cannot abide. The word STAN was used right here in this thread as some kind of slight, or put down. That approach creates unnecessary negativity and division, in my opinion.

Discuss your opinions, share your ideas and thoughts, launch your criticisms and your praise, by all means and support them with your evidence....but please don't cut someone down to the implied level of a (crazy) stan, just because they want to look for the good in something.
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That’s exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it better. :)

I’m also baffled that I ended up being called a worshiping stan. I haven’t even been around in the MJ world for that long. Before 2019, I haven’t spent a single thought on MJ since he left us, and now I’m a stan because I’m just trying to understand the man, with an open mind, as he hoped people would one day.

I’d also like to remind you all that the thread started out with the premise that this particular 3D show exists, complete and shelved, collecting dust. I have never said that we desperately need a HIStory Tour release. But if it’s already there – which I don’t believe it is without any further evidence – then by all means release it. I’d love to see it. If that’s worshiping to you, then we have different definitions of the word.
 
mj_frenzy said:
That is because negative comments get deleted by the owner of a YouTube channel where these videos are uploaded on, thus only the favorable ones stay.
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I agree. as a MJ fan i'm not gonna delete opinions i don't agree with. i swear some fans praise michael like everything he did and said was good. i don't like the history tour and i'm glad i'm a fan to be honest what i like and don't like about michael. he was a human being if you take away clothes, awards, etc. like calm down.
 
mj_frenzy said:
The 1996 leg was generally better compared to the 1997 leg, and in particular the 1996 Kaohsiung HIStory concert which has been described as probably the best concert from the entire HIStory Tour.
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The 1996 leg is overall more energetic, but Kaohsiung? What about Kuala Lumpur, or Brunei? Those are honorable mentions. Heck even the Sydney concerts are amazing. June-July 1997 are just as good, with Bremen, Cologne, Amsterdam, Gelsenkirchen, etc. Basel from 1997 may be the most energetic, 1996 energy, I have seen from that leg so far
 
ScreenOrigami;4300648 said:
I’m saying that the constant negativity is exhausting. It’s ok not to like something, but why bring it up over and over again? It’s not possible to have a conversation without someone jumping in and bashing whatever is being talked about. This forum is turning into a negativity echo chamber because all the positive people quit posting.
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This is a history tour thread that was created. People are going to express their opinions on the product being presented. I don't really know what else you're expecting. I noticed you said "whatever is being talked about" when that isn't the case at all. If I like something I'll say, and if I don't then I'll say that as well. It does seem like you just want people to not express their opinions because reading them bothers you.
 
Mikky Dee said:
What's "valid" criticism, though? It's all subjective, really. For me, it's not about the whining so much. It's the implication from the people who have criticisms about something in particular, that they are thinking on a higher plane than those who don't have criticisms. There is a tendency to label people who want to embrace something and take joy from it, as an empty-headed "stan" and that I cannot abide. The word STAN was used right here in this thread as some kind of slight, or put down. That approach creates unnecessary negativity and division, in my opinion.

Discuss your opinions, share your ideas and thoughts, launch your criticisms and your praise, by all means and support them with your evidence....but please don't cut someone down to the implied level of a (crazy) stan, just because they want to look for the good in something.



I applaud you and I agree.
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This actually all started because you said that people saying they weren't interested in this release were "whining". You could have easily just let people express their opinions and move on.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
This is a history tour thread that was created. People are going to express their opinions on the product being presented. I don't really know what else you're expecting. I noticed you said "whatever is being talked about" when that isn't the case at all. If I like something I'll say, and if I don't then I'll say that as well. It does seem like you just want people to not express their opinions because reading them bothers you.
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I think I have explained myself enough now. If people want to continue to misrepresent what I said, feel free to do so.
 
History tour threads are so boring to read. Same old same old.

I personally love the tour and think MJ did things he couldn’t do in earlier tours.
 
dam2040;4300719 said:
History tour threads are so boring to read. Same old same old.

I personally love the tour and think MJ did things he couldn’t do in earlier tours.
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i respect your opinion.
 
dam2040;4300719 said:
I personally love the tour and think MJ did things he couldn’t do in earlier tours.
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I think this is a very important point. As an artist, you want to keep moving, keep trying out new things.
 
Michael is called ''The greatest entertainer of all time'' and when you're called that you're going to be held to very high standards.
 
I'm glad the Estate didn't go ahead with this. 3D wouldn't be enough to save it. Lip synching for almost an entire show is not a good look for anyone, but especially for an artist of Michael's caliber. In this day and age I think any cinematic HIStory tour release will just further damage Michael's reputation. But they could put a few clips in the HIStory documentary they're supposedly going to release in the future.
 
One could argue that – since the HIStory Tour concerts are literally flooding YouTube anyway – it might be a good idea to be open about the lipsyncing, putting it into proper context, instead of giving haters the chance to gloat over “revealing” something that the Estate tried to keep secret. You all know how these people are.

As a non-fan and member of the often cited general public, I felt very entertained when I saw the Munich show on TV in 2009. I think I even made a Tweet about how great it was.
 
ScreenOrigami;4300740 said:
One could argue that – since the HIStory Tour concerts are literally flooding YouTube anyway – it might be a good idea to be open about the lipsyncing, putting it into proper context, instead of giving haters the chance to gloat over “revealing” something that the Estate tried to keep secret. You all know how these people are.

As a non-fan and member of the often cited general public, I felt very entertained when I saw the Munich show on TV in 2009. I think I even made a Tweet about how great it was.
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The media and other obnoxious individuals who want to spit on Michael don't care about context. I think for the foreseeable future the Estate should focus on and promote things that make Michael look good.
 
Pretty much any so-called “live” DVD on the market is doctored to a point where there’s not much left of the live recording anyway. They’re stitched together from multiple shows and overdubbed in the studio, sometimes only to correct a few flaws, sometimes entire vocals or guitars or whatever are recreated in the studio. A canned live concert is not much more than the illusion of a perfect show that never happened.

I see why people wouldn’t like someone lipsyncing in a live performance, but on a DVD – or in the theater – it’s really not that important, particularly if the selling point is the 3D visuals.
 
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