NANCY GRACE
AEG Found Not Liable in Michael Jackson`s Death
Aired October 2, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I have a -- we have a gentleman here that needs help, and he`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. We the jury in the above entitled action answer the questions submitted to us as follows. Did AEG Live hire Dr. Conrad Murray? Answer, Yes. Was Dr. Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired? Answer, No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray caused the death of Michael Jackson. Conrad Murray abandoned Michael Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The Michael Jackson family money machine screeches to a halt after decades of living off the pop icon. Tito, Jermaine, Marlon, Randy, Jackie, go get a job like the rest of us!
In the last hours, a California jury refuses to fork over even one red cent to the Jackson family when they go after entertainment giant AEG, who promoted Michael Jackson`s comeback tour titled "This Is It," the jury refusing to hold AEG responsible for Jackson`s death at the hand of Michael Jackson`s prescription-pad-loving personal doctor, who let Michael Jackson die using anesthesia propofol as a sleep aid.
The Jackson family, as always, coming up with a money-making scheme like no other to sue AEG for up to $2 billion!
We are live and taking your calls. Live there outside the L.A. courthouse, Alan Duke, CNN digital reporter. Alan, I`m actually stunned. I don`t disagree with the verdict, but I`m stunned. Tell me what happened. Don`t leave anything out.
ALAN DUKE, CNN DIGITAL REPORTER: There was no one more stunned than Valerie Wass. She is the lawyer for Conrad Murray, who will be freed from jail after two years in about three weeks. She almost fainted. She was sitting right behind me. I heard a gasp when the jurors read that question, Was he unfit and incompetent? No. I thought that was going to their easiest question. It was the one that ended the trial. It was the one that stopped the deliberations. They said...
GRACE: Yes! Alan, you`re right.
DUKE: ... they couldn`t find that he was unfit and incompetent.
GRACE: There was a series of five questions. And before the jury could go from one to two, from two to three, from three to four, ending up at five, where they forked over up to $2 billion -- and I am not talking about just giving Paris and Prince Jr., and Blanket, his three children, money. I`m talking about Katherine Jackson was involved, too. Translation -- so was the daddy, so were all of the brothers, so were the sisters. Everybody was going to get a piece of that pie. And I think the jury just would not allow it!
DUKE: That`s not what happened, Nancy. They were very clear when they were speaking to us tonight that this was a situation where they were boxed in by the wording of question number two, Was he unfit or incompetent for the work for which he was hired? He was a licensed doctor, never been sued. He was fit and competent.
However, I asked the jury foreman, Gregg Barden, I said, Does that mean that you would allow him -- hire him to be your doctor? He said, No, this does not vindicate Dr. Murray. I wouldn`t let him be my doctor.
GRACE: Well, you know what? That just absolutely doesn`t make one ounce of sense, to say, I wouldn`t let him touch me. I mean, come on! His patient died while he was in the other room talking to his mistress on the phone and Michael Jackson`s under propofol. You know, it`s -- of course he was unfit.
You know what, Alan? I don`t care if they put perfume on the pig tonight. I think the reality is they`re not going to give the Jackson family money to say that Conrad Murray, the guy who let Jackson die -- he`s been found guilty of manslaughter criminally -- is fit?
Oh! Oh! Alan, please tell me you`re not that gullible. You really think that`s what happened?
DUKE: Well, they never -- in deliberations, they never got to those questions. Those were down -- the 16 questions down toward the end about the money. They couldn`t get past number two. Was he fit and incompetent? They said, He`s got a license, so I guess he was, to be a general practitioner. But they said his job wasn`t to give him propofol, that...
GRACE: Oh, yes, a general practitioner...
DUKE: ... that wasn`t what he was hired to do.
GRACE: ... behind bars...
DUKE: So it was a technicality.
GRACE: Out to Pat Lalama, correspondent, Investigation Discovery. We have followed this case from the beginning, since way back when. Pat Lalama, thank you for being with us tonight.
You know, Alan Duke did speak to jurors. They did say that. But I think they went in there knowing the Jackson family has been living off Michael Jackson, sucking him dry for years and years. And here, even in his death -- I don`t know how many albums they`ve released.
Clark, how many have they released since Jackson died? Millions have been made since he died, and now they come up with this scheme to sue AEG!
PAT LALAMA, CORRESPONDENT, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY: Nancy, I think it`s clear they smelled a rat from the start. You`re absolutely right -- took advantage of him in life -- I`m not afraid to say that -- took advantage of him in death.
The fact of the matter was, if you look at how that read, that form, it said that he was supposed to do these services he was expected to do at the time. But nobody knew -- there`s no way that AEG could have known about propofol. They couldn`t have known.
Michael Jackson wanted Conrad Murray. He knew he could control him, so he went to AEG and said, I want this -- this man to be my doctor. He didn`t have a record. There was no problem. They let him have it. They didn`t know the scourge that was happening inside of that bedroom...
GRACE: Well, Pat...
LALAMA: ... in the house.
GRACE: ... here`s the deal. Here`s the deal. Jackson had been using Dr. Conrad Murray as his personal physician for years. He had been using propofol, which -- everybody, if you didn`t learn this during Conrad Murray -- Dr. Conrad Murray`s homicide trial, propofol is given -- I`ve had it. You fall asleep immediately, and the minute they unplug it, you wake back up. You have it for a lot of procedures in hospitals. You`re not supposed to use it out of a hospital.
LALAMA: Right.
GRACE: Conrad Murray was pumping Jackson full of propofol whenever Jackson wanted to sleep. He was actually robbing Jackson of the restful REM sleep period, which was hurting him, but Conrad Murray didn`t care.
But Jackson had been using Conrad Murray for years. How was AEG supposed to know what was going on?
LALAMA: Well, Nancy, that`s my exact point. And if you think about Debbie Rowe, his ex-wife, who testified in the trial that he had been using propofol for years. So if AEG wants this tour to go on, they`re going to go to Jackson, Jackson`s going to say, Conrad Murray`s my man, I want him, give him to me, they got him.
GRACE: Pat Lalama joining us from LA. Also with us, Alan Duke CNN digital reporter. And Alan, I heard the same thing. I think you actually observed it. Conrad Murray`s own lawyer in court, when the jury gets to question two, says, Well, you know, AEG`s not responsible because Conrad Murray is fit to practice medicine. His own lawyer goes -- and it was, like, shocked! I mean, I think that that was an audible gasp that you could hear in the courtroom.
DUKE: Yes. And she was sitting right behind me. So I had to bring her out here, and of course, I did an interview with her live, and she was just basically -- she`s probably visiting with Dr. Murray right now. That was her next stop, to go and see him in his jail cell, where he`s counting the days until he`s free again, to tell him that he was, in a way, vindicated. And I think he`s going to be -- he`s been watching this trial very closely, and I think he thinks this was his victory.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Nancy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Nancy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I think what I`d like to question is Michael Jackson`s parents. They`ve been living off of him for a long time. They want more money and more money, and they`re so greedy. I think it`s time that they were more concerned about the children they entrusted to Katherine Jackson`s care. And I just wondered what you thought about that.
GRACE: You know, Nancy in Pennsylvania, I`ve been worried about that for a long time, and I`ll tell you why. I think Katherine Jackson must be a saint to have put up with Joe Jackson. I mean, every time you turn around, he`s in some other scam, some money-making scheme. He`s with this woman, that woman.
They`re still married. And of course, Michael Jackson always said his father brutally abused him and forced him into show business, beating him.
Now, Jackson -- Katherine Jackson stood by and let this happen, OK? I don`t think she did that willingly, but it happened under her watch. She`s the mommy, all right? And I was always concerned when Michael Jackson`s children went to her -- not that she would willingly ever hurt them, but what would happen under her watch with them.
Now, interesting, Nancy in Pennsylvania, this case today, this verdict that was just handed down in the last couple of hours, also precludes the children from getting any money from AEG. They were part of this lawsuit.
Out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent. Which of the children actually testified in front of the jury, just Prince?
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Paris Jackson also testified in front of the jury.
GRACE: Oh, I thought that was a deposition recording.
CASAREZ: It was a deposition recording, you`re right, but it was under oath. And the children did. But it was Kenny Ortega of AEG that when he testified, the jury actually clapped, Nancy.
GRACE: And what was his testimony that moved the jury to applaud?
CASAREZ: I think it was just in awe of Kenny Ortega, the name that everybody knows, the person that was responsible for this grand tour that was about to happen. I think it showed their affinity for him.
GRACE: Well, I mean, everybody loves Michael Jackson, even if you`re like me -- I always thought that he was guilty of those child molestation charges. But that did not take away from his actual talent. I also think that he loved his own children.
So you`re saying that Prince testified in front of the jury. Paris`s deposition testimony was played in front of them. She did not come in the jury room and go under oath and testify in front of the jury, but they saw her.
And the youngest child, Blanket -- I think a child psychologist said he should not testify, is that correct, Jean?
CASAREZ: Yes, that is definitely correct. But you know, Nancy, when I covered the criminal trial of Conrad Murray, the jury -- there were claps from the fans for the prosecutor that permeated the walls of that hallway on the ninth floor of that courthouse.
This jury claps for Kenny Ortega. I think it`s strikingly different.
GRACE: It is. Everyone, we are live in L.A., where a jury has just handed down a monumental verdict in the Michael Jackson civil trial, as it has been called, Jackson`s family, including his mother, Katherine Jackson, going after AEG entertainment giant for up to $2 billion, a civil lawsuit claiming the entertainment giant was responsible for Michael Jackson`s death.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing. And we need to -- we`re trying to pump him, but he`s not -- he`s not...
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he on the floor? Where`s he at right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s on the bed, sir. He`s on the bed.
911 OPERATOR: OK, let`s get him on the floor. Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... as one of the greatest and nicest guys ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother was not healthy, and they didn`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping. He`s pumping his chest, but he`s not responding to anything, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And the saga goes on, the Michael Jackson story. In the last hours, a California jury hands down a verdict, refusing to fork over $2 billion, up to $2 billion, to the Michael Jackson family.
Now, Katherine Jackson, his mother, was on that lawsuit. And you know whatever money she got up to $2 billion, not only would she share that with his children, Blanket, Prince, Paris, but it would go right into the pocket of Joe Jackson, his father, who has manipulated the Jackson family for all these years.
Joining me at the courthouse, Alan Duke. Alan, tell me the scene when the jury read that verdict. I was stunned.
DUKE: Yes. It was a packed courtroom. You know, we had the trial for five months in a very small courtroom, limited to 60 seats. We had 313 seats in the big courtroom and the television camera. So there was a big crowd there.
And it was very quiet. And you know how those ceremonies can go. But this was a case where people had been together for five months, this jury and -- with the judge. And as she was flipping through, looking at the verdict form, reviewing it, there was actually for a moment an indication it might be a good verdict for the Jacksons because she looked through all of the pages, indicating she was going down all the questions.
But she really only needed to go to the first two. It ended so quickly, it was like a heavyweight fight that ended in the second punch because question number one, Yes, people said he hired -- they hired Dr. Murray. That was what we thought was the big question. Once they got over that, everything else might follow.
The knockout punch, though, is question number two. Was Dr. Murray unfit or incompetent? The answer to that was stunning. It was no. And the gasp that went out in the courtroom was from one person, Conrad Murray`s lawyer, sitting behind me. I thought she had fainted.
GRACE: You know, did the jury know, Alan, that the doctor that they say is fit and competent is sitting behind bars for letting Michael Jackson die under the influence of propofol anesthesia used as a sleep aid while he talked in the other room on the cell phone to his mistress? Do they know that?
DUKE: They knew it. They said he`s fit to be a general practitioner, maybe a cardiologist, but not to do propofol. But he wasn`t hired to do propofol. They said that was the language in the question...
GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense!
DUKE: ... so they stuck to it, the job for which he was hired.
GRACE: Joining me right now...
DUKE: It was a stunning decision.
GRACE: It is, and I`m not saying I disagree with it. I`m just very surprised they rendered it.
To Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, author of "The Michael Jackson Tapes," Michael Jackson`s personal mentor and rabbi. Rabbi, thank you for being with us.
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, MICHAEL JACKSON`S RABBI: Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Are you surprised at the verdict? And also, $2 billion, Rabbi?
BOTEACH: Well, Nancy, you`re a moral person, so let`s go beyond just the legal implications of AEG. They may not be legally culpable.
But give me a break. AEG didn`t know that Michael had drug problems? You just showed video of Michael turning up to the 2005 trial in his pajamas! The whole world knew Michael had drug problems. Michael was treated for drug problems.
And I find it astonishing that AEG Live -- since Michael was not close to his family in the last years of his life, didn`t they have a certain responsibility to go beyond the greed and the money and actually look at how gaunt he was? In the "This Is It" documentary, he looks terrible! He looks emaciated.
And if you look at the funeral that AEG Live staged, with Michael`s family`s participation, to be sure, it was a concert. There was no mourning. There was no tragedy. It was turned into a global concert, and everyone was making cash even off a man`s funeral while he lay dead in a coffin, having orphaned his children.
So this is a stunning and shocking act of immorality by all the players because beyond the music left to us, this guy is dead! And I find it just crushing that no one seems to be culpable. You said about Dr. Conrad Murray -- at the very least, he was found culpable because of course, what he did was negligent. You can`t give somebody hospital-grade anesthetics to fall asleep because he wants it, because he`s famous, because he`s rich and can pay you.
So I`m saddened all around. There are no winners in this trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s great to be home. It`s a wonderful feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re looking at the bedroom where Michael Jackson took his last breath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a gentleman here that needs help, and he`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He only wanted sleep because he had problems with sleeping, not to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He died so quickly...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to see justice (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice shall prevail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel so much love and I felt it then. And I`m just so happy that that love is still there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. In the last hours, a stunning verdict handed down by a California jury, the jury refusing to hand over up to $2 billion to Michael Jackson`s family, the family, including his mother, Katherine Jackson, suing the entertainment giant AEG, claiming it`s their fault Jackson died.
I want to go back to a special guest, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Rabbi, again, thank you for being with us. I want to go over what you just said, how everybody was using Jackson, sucking him dry. I couldn`t agree with you more.
But the question this jury had to answer was, was AEG, who set up his final tour -- Michael Jackson wanted to do it -- were they responsible for his death? Now, true, they had an agreement to pay Conrad Murray, his doctor, who let him die. They never paid him. And Jackson asked for Conrad Murray. That was his personal physician for years. Jackson had been using propofol to go to sleep.
So how, may I ask you, Rabbi, is that AEG`s fault?
BOTEACH: Nancy, I`m a rabbi, not a lawyer. But let`s be clear. There were e-mails in this trial from AEG executives...
GRACE: Yes.
BOTEACH: ... and they`re saying, Michael looks terrible, gaunt, emaciated, e-mails from Kenny Ortega saying that Michael looks horrible. So did they have a moral responsibility, even a legal responsibility to maybe pull the plug on this concert?
These concerts would`ve killed Michael one way or another. He was in no way up to it.
GRACE: OK, question...
BOTEACH: Everyone who knew him...
GRACE: Question...
BOTEACH: ... knew that he was not up to it.
GRACE: Question, Rabbi. Were they under a moral duty to pull the plug on the concert because they knew Michael Jackson was -- I want to say a drug addict because he was addicted to this propofol. That`s not the question before the jury.
Now, I agree with you they knew they had a star who was on drugs, like many stars. That doesn`t mean it`s OK. But it was Michael Jackson`s decision, in his addled mind -- he was not thinking with all of his faculties -- to continue to use Conrad Murray.
In fact, in one of AEG`s e-mails -- and I`m glad you brought that up, Rabbi -- AEG says, Remember, remind Conrad Murray we`re the ones that are going to pay him, not Michael Jackson. Now, I take that to mean, Conrad Murray, you better do the right thing and not just what Michael Jackson wants you to do, i.e., giving him drugs.
BOTEACH: Well, it could also mean -- And I don`t know the exact context of that e-mail. It could also mean, You better keep him performing, you better keep him healthy because this cash cow and this golden goose better lay the golden eggs.
But according to so many of these e-mails, the people who were working with Michael in the preparations for the concerts every day saw him falling to pieces. He was falling apart. Why didn`t they pull the plug? He might be alive today.
The man needed help. Was there not one moral person to say that his life was more important than cash? Was there not one person to say that beyond him being a singer, he`s a father? There are three kids that are going to be orphaned. He`s going to die. The man is going to die.
GRACE: Rabbi...
BOTEACH: And I find it astonishing that that is not a question that anyone wants to address.
GRACE: Rabbi, I agree with you! Everybody -- and I`m precluding his three minor children. Everybody around him was sucking him dry -- his brothers, his sisters, his father, everybody.
But the question to this jury was, was it AEG`s fault that Conrad Murray pumped him full of propofol and let him die?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him on the floor. Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prince said his father would cry after phone calls, saying quote --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going to kill me. They`re going to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was referring to to AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips. Prince testified that Phillips visited Jackson`s home and aggressively spoke to Dr. Conrad Murray the night before his father`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Testimony of a Harvard doctor, who said a physically deteriorating Jackson did not get REM sleep for 60 straight days while receiving propofol from Dr. Murray.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is going to freak you out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was Dr. Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired? Answer, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: $2 billion hanging in the balance. The Michael Jackson family on this lawsuit headed by Katherine Jackson. You know Joe Jackson, the father, was behind this, set to earn $2 billion in a lawsuit against AEG, the entertainment giant who put together Michael Jackson`s final tour, "This is it." With me special guest Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, also with me, correspondent Pat Lalama. Rabbi, again, thanks for being with us. Pat, response.
LALAMA: With all due respect to the rabbi, it`s easy to portray these executives, the AEG giants as these snakes and leeches. But at the same time, why are we not talking about personal responsibility? I`m a Jackson fan too. But we have to stop and think. This man essentially killed himself. And he orchestrated his life so he could have all the drugs he wanted and be in control he wanted. This particular tour to set his legacy. He was not going to stop.
And in the end, it was up to him. Yes, I like to take the moral road too. People tried to stop Elvis. People tried to stop Marilyn. People are still trying to stop Lindsay Lohan. But it`s up to that individual, and it was he, in fact, who killed himself in the end.
BOTEACH: You know, with all due respect, Pat, that`s like saying the NFL bears no moral responsibility for things like concussions. The moment you know people are destroying their lives and careers, you have a moral and perhaps even a legal responsibility to take action.
Michael worked by finding facilitators for his self-destructive habits. Once you can`t help an addict like Michael, you have a choice. You can either force him into getting help, and if he refuses to -- because it`s still a free country -- then you have a moral responsibility to stop being a facilitator, to stop giving him the money, the power, the clout and the access to these drugs that are killing him.
GRACE: Rabbi, question, you were extremely close to Michael Jackson. You had to know he was using drugs. You had to. His family had to know. So whose responsibility? Does that mean somehow it`s your fault or his family`s fault? At least you weren`t sucking him dry financially like his family was.
LALAMA: Exactly.
GRACE: Should we put everybody in jail that was using Michael Jackson? Should we start with his father? I mean, how does that work?
BOTEACH: Nancy, I`ve been criticized for walking away from my friendship -- my very close friendship with Michael, who I still miss today.
LALAMA: Yes, you have.
BOTEACH: Because I could not help him. You can`t stand by and watch a man drive his life off a cliff. You can`t give him the keys. And if you can`t help him, then you`ve got to not give him gasoline and at least try to stop being a facilitator.
Now, there were facilitators, I said on your sister network, on CNN I think in March of 2004 that Michael had a few years left to live and he would die. And the next day I was savagely attacked by his publicist and his family, and I said it on purpose, to tell them they would be held responsible. The people around him would be held responsible the moment he died and orphaned his children.
To say that none of them today bear any responsibility when they saw him gaunt and emaciated, no REM sleep. When I hear they were -- the jury was clapping for --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Stop, stop, stop. Hold on, Pat.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: With me right now is the jury foreperson, Gregg Bater (ph). Thank you for being with us.
GREGG BARDEN, JURY FOREMAN: Hi.
GRACE: Excuse me, Greg Barden. Thank you, Mr. Barden, for being with us.
BARDEN: Hi, thank you.
GRACE: Well, Mr. Barden, you knew you were on a high profile trial. And you knew whatever the verdict was going to be would be controversial one way or the other.
I agree with the verdict. But I`m very surprised that it was actually rendered. Tell me the jury`s thinking. I mean, to say that Dr. Conrad Murray was fit when you know he`s in jail for a homicide charge for letting Michael Jackson die and pumping him full of propofol? Was the jury at all concerned that Michael Jackson`s family, particularly his father and the others, were sucking Jackson dry, and this was their last chance at money?
BARDEN: You know, that never came into our thought process at all. We really didn`t say that Conrad Murray was fit.
I guess you have to understand they didn`t just throw us in the room and say tell us was AEG liable or not. They gave us a series of guiding questions, and the first five questions we had to answer, which really broke it down for us.
And question two, it doesn`t stop at just saying was Dr. Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent. It goes on to say, was he unfit or incompetent for the work which he was hired to do? He was hired to be a general practitioner for Michael Jackson. And to look at the definition of fit and competent, he -- all his licenses were intact. He had gone to a legitimate school. He had passed all of his doctor board exams. So he was fit and competent to be a general practitioner was the way we felt.
Now, was he unethical? You bet you, because he went beyond what he was supposed to be. So maybe had the word unethical been in there as opposed to unfit, I think the decision could`ve gone the other way.
GRACE: So you believe -- the jury believed that Dr. Conrad Murray, who is sitting behind bars right now for pumping Michael Jackson full of propofol until he died, you believe that doctor is fit to practice medicine?
BARDEN: No. He was fit at the time that he was hired as a general practitioner.
What we know now in hindsight, absolutely not. He was unethical. I certainly wouldn`t hire him as my doctor. But at the time, he was fit. Nobody knew that he was unethical and would pump Michael Jackson full of propofol.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are live and taking your calls. Out to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, also with me Alex Sanchez, Darrell Cohen. Both veteran defense attorneys. Also with me, Pat Lalama from Investigation Discovery. Out to you, Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: You know, I think you and Pat Lalama are not giving the rabbi a break over here. Yes, he may bear some responsibility as a friend or the family might bear some responsibility, but AEG was a business partner of Michael Jackson. They were the ones putting him under tremendous pressure. There was time pressures there. There was a lot of pressure to perform. To suggest that somehow they didn`t understand what Conrad Murray was doing and are hiding behind him, therefore not taking responsibility, I think is very unfortunate. They did bear some responsibility in this case.
GRACE: OK. Sanchez, No. 1, no one is blaming Boteach for anything. He stood by Jackson and only left Jackson after all those years when he could no longer help him --
SANCHEZ: But you`re criticizing his position. You`re criticizing his position.
GRACE: I disagree with him.
SANCHEZ: That somehow AEG is not responsible.
GRACE: OK.
LALAMA: Michael Jackson could`ve pulled the plug.
SANCHEZ: But Michael Jackson was a sick person and AEG knew it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Darrell Cohen, the reality is everybody was using Jackson. The question before this jury is was AEG responsible for the death? Michael Jackson had Conrad Murray as his personal physician giving him propofol for years before AEG even came on to the scene. So how could that be their fault?
COHEN: Sometimes, Nancy, you have to understand logic is not what rules in the entertainment world. The entertainment world is all about me and all around the hangers-on. AEG was absolutely aware of what he was doing. They wanted him on the road. They wanted to make billions of dollars off of and because of Michael Jackson. And only because of that was -- they turned a blind eye, did not see what Conrad was doing, chose not to see it because all they wanted was Michael on the air, Michael in front of an audience, Michael moonwalking.
GRACE: Pat?
LALAMA: Are you telling me -- all of us were shocked to find that this doctor was administering propofol. I mean, yes, maybe they could see that he wasn`t doing well, that he was haggard, that he was tired --
GRACE: I agree.
LALAMA: Who among us could`ve known what this man was doing to Michael Jackson, and what Michael Jackson was doing to himself.
GRACE: I don`t think his own family even knew.
LALAMA: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That company had a vested interest in knowing exactly what was going on because there was hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. They knew --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Out to (inaudible). Alexis, what more can you tell us?
TERESZCUK: What I can tell you is about AEG, you know who they dragged into this trial? Those children. They did not have to use the deposition of Paris Jackson after that poor little girl tried to commit suicide because she was so devastated that she had to testify about her father`s death. She was heartbroken. And this is how she wound up in the hospital, and it was because of AEG she had to do that. I think that is the biggest tragedy of all. These children have had their lives ruined. Their father is dead, their mother doesn`t take care of them, their grandmother doesn`t take care of them, their cousins are mean to them. Their aunts fight with them, their uncles want their money. They have no one to take care of them, and this big company still picked on these innocent little children. I think it`s awful.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know that I agree with you, except in the sense that everyone was using him, no one is concerned about the welfare of the children.
Out to you, Brian Oxman, you`re a long-time Jackson family friend. Don`t you think that $2 billion was excessive? If I had been on that jury, I would have been so turned off by Katherine Jackson, you know she`s the puppet of Joe Jackson, who abused Michael Jackson his whole childhood, was set to rake in that money $2 billion, Brian?
OXMAN: Nancy, the money was never the issue in this case. I just talked to Randy Jackson about ten minutes ago. And Nancy, he is heartbroken. He cried, I cried. This is not about money, Nancy. These tears are not the product of somebody trying to suck on Michael Jackson or do any of that.
We loved this man. He was someone who was my friend for 25 years. He is someone who I gave up all of my -- literally worldly possessions to try to help -- and when I talked to Randy Jackson, he was devastated. I can feel the pain of his entire family. This was never about money.
GRACE: Well, Eris Huemer, psychotherapist joining me out of LA, I understand the pain the Jackson family`s going through, having been a crime victim myself. So I think this verdict stirs all that back up and will stir it all back up for his three children. But still, we have to look at what is just and what is fair. Did AEG cause Michael Jackson`s death? Jackson was using Conrad Murray to pump him full of propofol for years, before AEG created this tour that Michael Jackson was going to go on. But what does this verdict do to those three children?
DR. ERIS HUEMER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Nancy, the three children are who is going to suffer the most. Michael Jackson ultimately is responsible for his drug addiction. And the family continues to (inaudible) off of him and never forced him in a situation where he needed to get help. Someone needed to draw the line in the sand because now these children are orphaned forever, and will have to live with this pain and grief forever. And in the spotlight, in this huge spotlight will these children forever suffer. And they don`t have a family to come together. What the Jackson family really needs --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: -- make the whole pain -- all the pain resurface for these children.
To Dr. William Morrone, joining us out of Vegas tonight. Dr. Morrone, he died from acute propofol overdose. Dr. Morrone, I really believe the family should have declared him incompetent and had him put into a hospital to get off drugs and get well. What would that have entailed? What would it have taken to clean up Michael Jackson so he could live?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: He needed to be in recovery, in a really good 12-step program, and maybe have substitution therapy and counseling. And he needed to be in detox. He had no insight. He didn`t know what was happening. It`s a great disservice. A 12-step program and he needed recovery.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: In the last hours, a jury hands down a verdict. A verdict in favor of AEG. The Michael Jackson family suing the entertainment giant claiming they were responsible for Michael Jackson`s death. At the courthouse, there in L.A., Allen Dukes, CNN digital reporter. Allen, how long had Conrad Murray been a doctor for Michael Jackson?
ALLEN DUKES, CNN DIGITAL REPORTER: He met him in 2006 in Las Vegas. Treated the kids for some minor illnesses as well as Jackson for three years. Nothing serious. For three years until he joined him in Los Angeles in 2009, probably early May.
GRACE: So he had been his doctor for over three years?
DUKES: One of his doctors, yes.
GRACE: One of his doctors. We`re getting a flood of e-mails and twitters about Conrad Murray, how long had he known Michael Jackson? So the bottom line is, he had been Michael Jackson and the Jackson family doctor for over three years.
Out to jury foreperson Greg Barden. Again, thank you for being with us.
You were saying earlier that the jury found Conrad Murray fit to be a doctor. That no one knew he was pumping Jackson full of propofol. Is that the standard in your mind whether people believed he was fit, because they didn`t know what he was doing?
BARDEN: Well, at the time that he was hired, he was fit. He had, like I said, he had the licenses. He was -- had no complaints against him. He certainly had no malpractice lawsuits. You could have checked him out six ways to Sunday and there were no complaints there. So at the time, you know, looking backwards now, of course you realize that when you know he was pumping him full of propofol, you know now that he wasn`t. But at the time, all signs pointed to the fact that --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, you`re saying -- wait a minute. I think I get it, Greg. Are you saying that AEG at the time they hired him had no reason to know he was unfit?
BARDEN: Right. And there was -- you know, Nancy, there was not one shred of evidence presented over five months to back up the fact that AEG could have known Conrad Murray was doing that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, we remember American hero, Army Specialist James Page, just 23, Titusville, Florida. Purple Heart, Bronze Star. National Defense Service Medal. Parents, Diana and James. Sister, Christie. Son, Jared. James Page, American hero.
And now, back to our coverage of the Michael Jackson civil verdict. Earlier we were talking about the families suing AEG for $2 billion and what will become of Jackson`s children. Just FYI, since Jackson`s death, he`s sold 50 million albums, that is the biggest selling artist iTunes, and made more money since his death than he has made in his lifetime.
But to Pat Lalama, Alexis Tereszcuk, Jean Casarez, first to you, Jean, who has the children right now? Who are they with tonight? How do we know they`re going to get that money and not Joe Jackson, the grandfather?
CASAREZ: You know, those children should be with Katherine Jackson in the family home. That`s the latest that we know of. How do we know who is going to get what money? I don`t think we`ll ever really know.
GRACE: What about it, Pat Lalama?
LALAMA: I think there`s a trust and I think it`s doled out a little bit at a time. I think they are well taken care of.
GRACE: You know, Alexis, it`s all about the children. The Jackson family, the rest of them, they need to go get jobs like the rest of us. Those children, do you believe that they`re being taken care of, that the Jackson family can`t get to that money?
TERESZCUK: I hope the Jackson family can`t get to that money, and I think that the people that are managing Michael`s estate since his death have been very careful about doing this. But to speak what Jean was talking about, Paris is actually out of the state (ph) and not living with Katherine anymore.
GRACE: Everyone, the end of another chapter in the Michael Jackson story. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
