Merged: Psychics channel Michael

[LyricGuy]

I didn't mean it that way. I do believe in praying to saints and angels and the mystical tradition. I don't think you're all going to hell. :cheeky:

This was to help you interpret the phenomena so you can judge it for yourself. Especially, I think that the passage in the link I posted regarding "What the devils can and cannot do" is really useful in judging these instances, lest anyone expose themselves to serious harm. Of course, some of us don't believe in devils at all. I will say some extra prayers that our experiences were the real MJ.

I see it as a win-win situation, actually. If Michael would make himself present for you, that's magnificent. Meanwhile, if demons are engaging you in battle, it shows you have a beloved and strong soul which they resent, like many of the holy saints.

The article's approach is like the "devil's advocate," the harshest way of judging things. I think its conclusions basically fit with common sense. Psychic mediums may be ambiguous, while miraculous coincidences are God's work.

 

[souldreamer7]

I have often prayed to the Angels and Saint to release Ethan in Alabama who was abducted and held hostage by yet another delusional terrorist in Alabama. I revisited my Rosary, held it. Every day and night I have asked St.Michael to intercede on his behalf.
Countless people prayed for his safe return...

The little boy is now safe with his parents. What a relief. And again I thank the Angels and Saints who stood by his side. We are never truly alone. And I thank those who freed the little one, what an incredible job.

Aaaah, the apologetics. They sometimes forget that particularly Catholicism has great roots in its mystical traditions...mysticism is the root of the tree.
You can decorate the branches with dogma all you want, forget to water the roots and soon you'll have a dying tree.

I also find it rather dangerous to condemn what would be completely normal for our brother and sisters of Hindu creed. Siddhis ("hearing things far away" etc) are considered the leaving behind of pain causing IGNORANCE by gaining KNOWLEDGE, something that has always been embraced by Christian Gnostics.

Dominus tecum,

A fellow mystic who still attends Mass

:yes: I agree. I am not sure if you know the American poet Jim Carroll (R.I.P.) He is Catholic and was mystical in a great sense.

I had a dream about Michael. (If this is in the wrong place please let me know)
Michael had the afro look, we were at his house. I got to meet Mrs. Jackson, she told me the rules of being a JW, what is is and what is not allowed, I listened and noded "yes" to let her know that I understand what she had said. Michael took me to his room, it was a mess,one of his sibling got mad at him, saying that he should have his room clean next time a guest comes over.

Michael then apologized for it, I told him that I didn't mind. We had lunch and talked, he sensed that I was nevous and kept asking me if I was ok, I told him I was. He gave me a huge smile. :blush: He almost kissed me, he got nervous and didn't do it. I think this was Michael's way of trying to calm me down because I've been under so much stress and have had a lack of sleep. He's keeping an eye on me.

I believe you. I had a very intense dream to do with Michael's bedroom & home in 2009 and a lot of people did involving his home and especially his bedroom and now that I think back it was always kind of messy in his room.

Take Care all.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

:yes: I agree. I am not sure if you know the American poet Jim Carroll (R.I.P.) He is Catholic and was mystical in a great sense.
....

Thank you, he seems like quite an interesting character. I just read on his website (mainted by his friend now) how his friend is always excited to see which poem his iPod will play... Guess we can all relate. Things may seem random, but it's amazing how much recognizable 'structure' these things have. Once you find the repeating patterns that apply to you, you know who's with you, your loved ones are never far, they are just an emotion and thought away.

I had surgery last year and I was extremely happy to experience a wild ride of different 'thanks for holding my hand' moments all along the way.
Just trust your intuition.

 

[Petrarose]

I wanted to post a dream Aphrodite Jones the author of Michael Jackson Conspiracy wrote in the new edition book. She had this dream about Michael below:

Pg 302-303
Since his death, while I was procrastinating on any book update, Michael came to me vividly in a dream. I was with him in his dressing room and I was concerned about his health, but he promised me, “I’m fine! I’m fine!” Then suddenly there was
a man knocking at the door. Michael seemed frightened of the guy. He was putting his hand over his lips, signaling me to be quiet, to pretend we were invisible, but the man wouldn’t stop pounding. Finally, I left Michael and opened the door and saw this bulbous old white man and I told him to go away. The man seemed like some type of doctor and he insisted on entering, but I lied and said Michael was gone. I closed the door in his face.

I went and found Michael and told him that the man knocking was a gross, fat white man with a big belly hanging out. Michael made a face, like he was relieved that the guy was locked out. It seemed like he clearly knew who the man was. Then, as dreams go, it shifted to Michael walking around while pulling some kind of breathing tube away from his nose. In the dream, I got scared and thought Michael needed to keep the breathing tube in, but he kept saying, “No, no. I’m really good. I’m good. Really, I’m fine!”
And then I woke up.

I tried to put a spin on the dream, putting a name to the ugly face, trying to connect all the dots that lead from Michael’s criminal persecution to Michael’s early demise, that lead from the enabling doctors to the one doctor who caused Michael’s death, but then I stopped myself. I was fully awake now, and having been through Michael’s memorial service, having witnessed the homicide trial of Conrad Muarry, I had to remind myself again: Michael is really gone…..

Still, the dream made me feel like Michael was trying to spark me. But what did he want? There was no clear message. I thought about the breathing tube that should have been there for Michael, that would have saved him from an early death…I thought about his private struggle in that bedroom every night as he prepared to become “the King” again.

 

[8701girl]

Wow i wonder who that man was in aphrodite's dream

 

[Petrarose]

Wow i wonder who that man was in aphrodite's dream

Right? That is the thing that gets me mad about dreams. Why can't the person in dreams be clear and say what they want, mean, & explain things clearly. Everything seems to be a bunch of symbols, & when you wake up, you are more confused than when you went to bed!!

 

[8701girl]

Right? That is the thing that gets me mad about dreams. Why can't the person in dreams be clear and say what they want, mean, & explain things clearly. Everything seems to be a bunch of symbols, & when you wake up, you are more confused than when you went to bed!!

Oh god aint that the truth!!! lol

For me i just cant remember my dreams barely at all anymore which is frustrating , like i can feel it was a unsual funny dream but i cant remember it visually.

 

[Petarkco]

What's the consensus on wither people can contact Michael via a psychic/clairvoyant? If people are interested I do have a story to tell.

 

[myosotis]

What's the consensus on wither people can contact Michael via a psychic/clairvoyant? If people are interested I do have a story to tell.

I'm not sure there will ever be consensus on that..I'm sure there are people who are certain that they (or others) can, and people who are certain that it is impossible.....with a whole range of opinions in between. It will all depend on personal experience, beliefs etc. etc.

It is always interesting to hear people's stories though, and each one will add to the pool of knowledge and experience that others can tap into, to make up their own minds.

 

[Petrarose]

What's the consensus on wither people can contact Michael via a psychic/clairvoyant? If people are interested I do have a story to tell.

If you have a story to tell, let's hear it.

 

[Petarkco]

If you have a story to tell, let's hear it.

Ok, I just don't want people coming after me telling me I'm crazy/stupid etc.


In April 2012 I decided to call a clairvoyant to see what would be said and for the experience. Please note that I wasn't calling to talk to Michael. I'm going to cut to the chase here, after going through all the (usual) stuff I asked if there was anyone who as passed away looking over me. The clairvoyant started telling me about some elderly woman which wasn't much interest to me because I had little clue of who she was. Next the clairvoyant said that there was a thin man with black hair. I learnt a bit more about him. I didn't have a name at that point and I wasn't sure it was Michael until I felt that his demeanor was quite similar. I didn't ask specific questions and I didn't name names but I got answers that sounded like it was from Michael. I was reluctant to say it was Michael but I eventually had to in order to be able to ask specific questions Now I can't remember the specific conversation but lucky I did write down notes a few days later which I will expand upon here.

• Michael said he made a mistake regarding his death and was angry.
• He said that 30% of the story hasn't been told.
• I asked if he wanted to do 50 This Is It concerts instead of 10 he said: Yes and no.
• He said the Michael album is good but not complete.
• Regarding Paris acting in a movie he sad he was happy but worried and is envious.
• I asked if he wanted to send a message to the fans he sad: Peace, treat each other well and we need to treat animals better (I don't think the animals thing is specific to fans).
• He said that there were many things not done.
• I asked him if he wanted me to listen to a song and he said "you know what song" and only indicated that the song had a three word title.
• Looking at my notes I think I asked him if he wanted me to search for something on the internet and he said to search the internet for myself, nothing for him.
• He told me to stay pure, honest and sincere and to do whatever to help others.
• He told me to go for my dreams no matter what.
• I asked him if I ever had the money could I buy Neverland and he apparently smiled and said yes.

That's all I have besides some personal things. Feel free to ask questions.

 

[8701girl]

What's the consensus on wither people can contact Michael via a psychic/clairvoyant? If people are interested I do have a story to tell.

Its hard to tell whether psychics/clairoyants are being truthful cuz alot of them seem so fake

 

[8701girl]

Regarding Paris acting in a movie he sad he was happy but worried and is envious.

Why would he be envious? does he mean like he wishes he had the chance to do more films and thats why he feels envious?


Theres a few things id ask him but one question but thats way too personal to say here , i just wish he could guide me with it

 

[Petrarose]

MLVD very interesting. When you got a vague answer, didn't you ask the person to follow up with another question, so that the information would be clearer. Right now some of the answers are as vague as our dreams.

The answer about the death, where he said he made a mistake. I wonder what that means. Maybe he felt he made a mistake taking prof, or using crazy Muarry. Now what else do we need to know about the story? Maybe someone knows something and is not saying.

So he says the Michael album is good but not complete, yet he did not say anything about the controversy. I wonder if he means it needs more work, or more songs, or some songs should be thrown out to make it a complete Michael album. About the movie, he knew that Paris wanted to do acting, so I guess this is no surprise, but shouldn't the dead person know the movie is not happening?

 

[8701girl]

some songs should be thrown out to make it a complete Michael album.

Problem is that album is done & dusted, there is nothing that can be done to change it now

 

[MIST]

:bump
There are many things between earth and heaven to discuss

 

[J5master]

I'm bumping this up myself! I only read a bit of this thread and I know I'm gonna love it. Especially when it come to dream interpretation (cuz I used to be an english major and finding meaning in metaphors is what I do lol) . Aphrodite Jones' dream, to me, simply says that MJ was trying to be invisible from a lot of vultures in his life. The description of the man reminded me of MJ's 'mayor' character in Ghosts, and that guy represented a lot of people I think. In general, the guy could have been a mix between Tom Sneddon, Tommy Matola, AEG, MJ's own people, the parents of those lying kids, the media - really anyone who tries to take advantage of him. They were coming at him from all sides and its no wonder MJ might has felt trapped.

EDIT:

Also I have to tell you guys, I had this weird experience... the day before June 25 I just started hearing MJ music everywhere. And I had this urge to listen to MJ music - kinda out of the blue. I thought nothing of it. Then I told my friend (who believes in contacting spirits and stuff) about how I was just on random 'MJ mode' that day, just extremely happy and just really wanting nothing but to jam to his music all day lol I said: "idk its weird because just today i've been like on an MJ trip for some reason. And even when i was away from the computer, like MJ music was playing a ton when I just had it on random. Like me and the fam were playing cards and like 3 MJ songs came on my sister's shuffle (out of a ton of songs obviously)."

And she said (note: she's not a particularly HUGE MJ fan, she admires him and doesn't believe the garbage about him, but she's not in like...the fandom)..."well tahts weird because I had a dream about Michael Jackson last night." He was at some party with her but he was sitting alone in the corner. No one was talking to him so she went over there and just carried on conversation with him - mostly about some of the tough things in his life and how people are bogus to him. Then MJ got whisked away by his people and she tried to get close to him again to give him a letter (I guess?) but stuff kept getting in her way, and she kept getting frustrated - she couldn't get to him again, and she woke up.

So when she told me that I just happened to glance at the date and found out - holy crap! Its the day before the 5th anniversary of his death. And honestly I had stopped keeping track of these things, it totally did not cross my mind, it was just another day until that moment.

Then she said that she started getting chills while we were talking - good chills, like someone just walked up to you just to sit with you in comfort. So she said she'd light a candle for MJ and say hello to him that night. She told me since not a lot of people believe in that sort of thing or able to acknowledge someone's spirit - so not a lot of people would do that. For instance, she wouldn't have connected the dots if I hadn't told her it was his death anniversary.

So yeah, that was kinda trippy! lol I don't know if I fully believe in her ability to just be like 'hey wassup Mike!' ...but it is certainly a nice thought. To say the phrase "he's here in spirit" - and not just say it, but feel it and know its true. Its a comforting thought. It means he's not really gone.

Edit: She gave me more details about how she was feeling. she said she wasn't even that INTO Michael Jackson, as a fan, but she woke up feeling SUPER frustrated. Incredibly so. Mostly because the 'people' around him kept telling her MJ didn't want to see her and were being rude, but in the dream she KNEW that wasn't true. She said that MJ really was enjoying the conversation and was happy that someone was connecting with him (and she'd be the ideal candidate I'd think, someone who isn't like "OMGZ IM SUCH A FAN" but also someone who can talk to him like a person and not a celebrity). So when she woke up she felt frustrated but also really really sad. But in the midst of that, she also felt this sense of....contentment too. Which is something a lot of psychics who I believe felt MJ's spirit described. They didn't just tlak about MJ's life in the dream, but of course she got to talk about her own struggles and of course MJ was gracious and kind and comforting, and she felt that. And afterwards, she just felt warm inside. Like everything was going to be okay.

 

[Petrarose]

J5master I don't believe the dead is gone. I mean, I think they are no longer in the flesh but their spirit travels. I think they visit--go to different places, go to different people and then go back in some other area where they all hang out. I think they see what we do and what is happening. I feel some of them stay away from our world for a long time, that is, there is a period when they stay in some other place. I know some feel the dead don't know anything because they are sleeping, but I think that sleeping is not continuous. I know for myself that once in England sleeping in a room where the elderly lived and died (we had gone to visit a dying person at a Catholic nursing home and had to sleep there because it was very far away), and in the night hands pushed me off the bed. I mean I could feel the fingertips as the hands were placed on my back and the hands pushed. I was lying on my side and as the hands pushed my body moved. I can tell you it was an alarming experience!! I looked in the direction of where the hands came from, but of course my eyes could not see anyone. I remember telling the nuns the next morning. I just had the feeling that I was in someone's room and they did not want me sleeping in their room. Maybe it was their bed too.

About Michael, since the last time I posted in this thread about him looking all sad and that he had gotten up from sleeping, I had about 2 more dreams about him and he was sleeping again. Around March I dreamed I was in some social activity like a party, went to sit on a couch and this person sat up from lying on the couch and it was Michael looking sleepy as though he was disturbed from his sleep. He turned and smiled and we shook hands but no conversation took place. In the dream I am thinking well why you choose a party to go lie on a couch and sleep. It is not as though I knew you were there sleeping and went there and woke you up. Now what is the significance of me seeing him sleeping I have no clue. At least this time he was not looking sad.

 

[J5master]

Thanks for your reply and your story! (rubs hands) Another dream interpretation, let's see here.

I honestly think that the party is kinda like his life. It appears he 'chose' to sleep surrounded by a bunch of people and a bunch of noise, but he really doesn't have a choice, he's been surrounded by people all his life. So the party to me represents media, fans, his own entourage, fame, etc. He can't do something as private as simply going to sleep (or anything thats usually private) in peace because all of that is surrounding him (and he talked about something like that very literal in the Diane Sawyer interview, where you're always kinda paranoid that someone's watching you even if you try to go to sleep). But it has become such a normal way of life since an early age, its no big deal that he'd get 'woken up' by his environment. Thats why he didn't complain or anything, and wasn't looking sad.

It reminds me of this documentary I watched on YouTube surrounding all the happy events that took place in 2003, when he went back to Gary and had the birthday bash and everything. It was a real inside look, and the whole time MJ was just surrounded by people. It's a party 24/7. And then I realized, that wasn't just for when the cameras were rolling, that was his life every day.

I also think there are notes about the nature of his death your dream too obviously, with the insomnia, but also one might interpret that as a 'he can't rest in peace' kind of thing. But the above is just my humble opinion on it!

 

[Petrarose]

^^Very good insights. I don't even try to figure out what these dreams mean, because I don't have that skill. Within me I feel they have some significance, but I don't have the talent to understand it. For instance, my dreams about Michael I feel go in a pattern. After his death, for the first set of dreams I could not see his face. His back was always turned to me. If we were in a car, he would be in the front seat and I in the back right behind him. If I tried to see the front, there was something preventing me from moving to do so. I had about 3 of these back dreams.

2) In the next set of dreams I could see his front, but I could not touch him. If I moved toward him, he would step back. That was when I saw him stepping out of the crypt with a lighted candle as though he wanted some light.

3) The next set of dreams, I could touch him. He would extend a hand and shake mine, so he was becoming more physical. His body was extremely warm like a real person. (I remember how my mom said my dad came and rest next to her on the bed some time after he died, and he was very warm, so now I understand what she felt.) During this period, most dreams involved Michael bringing me people and then leaving. I think I talked about it in this thread or the hoax thread. Michael would bring me a baby and leave. Then he brought a bus load of young adults to me 3 times in one dream. The bus would come, he opens the door, leads some young adults to me, shake my had and goes back in the big tour bus.

4) The next set of dreams occurred years later with the sleeping dreams. He began to look extremely sad and I would come upon him sleeping in odd places, like in a small dismal room and in a church and he would wake up looking pained, sleepy and thin. I think it was Qbee who said maybe because of the negative things going around at that time and my head was about those thoughts that I am seeing him like this, but I don't know. She said she always sees him very happy. So right now we are at the sleeping stage, so I am curious to see what the next set of dreams will be like. It seems the sets usually have about 3 dreams, and since the last sleep dream showed him happier but still tired maybe the dreams are moving to a happier Michael. Maybe I should try to right them down since it might be interesting to compile these sets/patterns. However, I tend to wake with little time to fool around before I have to rush to the shower, get dressed and run out to work. By the end of the day I begin to forget some of the details of the dreams. I think the best time is to write them on awakening, but I don't have time then.

 

[J5master]

Interesting! Yeah I think your interpretations make a lot of sense. That maybe the sleeping dreams are there because things got negative for a period. Maybe MJ's still unsure about what to do when it comes to whatever situation he feels he needs to fix on this plane. I'm sure that the set of dreams before that most definitely alludes to his concern about those he left behind. Kinda like "I can't do anything for them now but you can!" - and I honestly think, without even trying to feel his spirit or interpret dreams, that is really what MJ wants his fans to do for him.

I have to say, I got sucked in this psychic stuff hard core, and though before MJ's music and his memory alone has brought me new found comfort in recent weeks - now MJ's spirit has tripled that.

Since this thread is 600 pages long (lol) I can't read all of it, though I'd like to. But considering it IS 600 pages long, its clear that fans have experienced many phenomena over the years that lends itself to the idea that MJ is definitely still out there connecting with us from the spirit world. And I have to say, I do believe in a spirit world, I don't believe that this life is the only thing out there. But I never really entertained the thought of connecting with that world. Obviously I'm skeptical. But I stumbled upon Bonnie Vent (I know, I'm extra late) ...and I did see that she was talked about a bit in this thread. Some people believed her. Some people didn't. After watching all her videos and reading her messages, I have to say that I do believe her. Not 100% though, but...the things she had to say are extremely consistent with a lot of things that unfolded, and it just makes a lot of sense. It all sounds like things MJ would be concerned about and would specifically say (unlike clearly fake psychics who would be extremely vague, and would talk about things that I think MJ would in no way be concerned about after his death in a manner that is entirely unbelievable). The speech patterns and word choice even match up to me. It just seems extremely authentic so either she spent a hell of a lot of time studying up on MJ and coming up with a plausible outcome to the Murray stuff before the Murray trial even started....or she really did communicate with MJ in some way. For instance, theres just a lot of things she COULD have said that would have been just as plausible and believable coming from Michael Jackson about the nature of his death, given the circumstance. But she did not waver from what she was saying at all.

So she has made a believer out of me. And I have yet to see any shady backstory about her that sticks, so if there are some - i'm open to hearing it.

And I don't know, a lot of what "MJ" said through bonnie is just extremely consistent with the questionable events that surrounded his death that no one really seems to talk about. Plus - and I think someone had pointed this out in the thread, MJ's (often unintentional) humor even shined through in the videos, and I think that's really hard to fake lol The whole "coming back to , sorry, 'haunt' me" thing...thats just so quintessentially him to say lol And even the whole comment about it being a shock to him that he died, and that it was bad timing. Just the understated way that was worded, reminded me of This is It where he tore up Billie Jean and said "well at least you have a feel for it," very seriously - while everyone was geeking out thinking it was the best thing they ever saw. haha It was one of those moments - where its kinda like, 'yes MJ, understatement of the century. REALLY bad timing there."

And after hearing those sessions, I did realize that it matched up with my friend's dream that I mentioned in my last post - he talked about all of the people that were supposedly 'close' to him betraying him and trying to control him - a 'control grid.' And it kinda links up to my friend trying to reach him but not being able to because the people surrounding him. Which might relate to what you're experiencing too Petrarose.

Anyway, in these videos "MJ" did say that if you feel that it is real and authentic, then you'll know its him. And I read somewhere from another psychic who's a fan that MJ's spirit can come in a lot of forms - maybe hearing his music in odd places or something else. And just today, I had that experience. You know I was still on this "MJ high" (lol) feeling happy that I've found my home again - my MJ community. Feeling inspired and creative. And the night before I did sort of 'ask' if Mj's spirit was out there, as I prayed to God and asked Him to keep MJ close. At some point today, I told myself I was done Michaeling for the day - and I needed to be productive. So I put on other music (not MJ), did some work, I went out to run some errands - one of which was picking up some contacts, and walking in the door of the place - wouldn't you know it. Rock With You playing over the loud speaker. At first I thought nothing of it but a second later I had to admit it was kinda a funny coincidence. Today wasn't really a special day in MJ history where people would just be randomly playing his music, and its just funny cuz earlier I said I'd be give Michaeling a break and it was like I couldn't get away lol

Then when I got in the car Stevie Wonder's "Overjoyed" came on the radio. This might not have much significance for anyone else, but for me...it was a song that held a special place in my heart, but also a song I have not heard or listened to in YEARS. That song was a song I used to listen to on repeat when I was little, along with MJ's music....and it just brought back a lot of those memories. Memories of how MJ used to inspire me, ironically enough, even though it was a Stevie Wonder song.

And that was so jarring, I was kinda like "Okay God (or whoever is trying to tell me something), I'm totally listening." lol

And I listen to the lyrics for the first time in years. Again, the coincidence of some of the lyrics was extremely moving - in relation to Michael, yes, but also in relation to how I used to think and dream as a child. That song was like one of my anthems for imagination, dreams and goal chasing.

You've got: "Over time, I've been building my castle of love,"
"I've gone much too far for you now to say,That I've got to throw my castle away"
"Over hearts, I have painfully turned every stone, Just to find, I had found what I've searched to discover"

And the chorus goes:
"And though you don't believe that they do
They do come true
For did my dreams
Come true when I looked at you
And maybe too, if you would believe
You too might be
Overjoyed, over loved, over me"

And the change over:
"And though the odds say improbableWhat do they know"

I mean the lyrics although its about romance speaks so deeply to me personally, especially given my struggle with MJ's death and what that did to my motivations in life. And also it almost reminded me of some of the things that MJ used to say in life, and said in death possibly through Bonnie in regards to what makes him happy. "overjoyed, over loved, over me" - he wanted to be loved and appreciated, and he wanted to give love back. He wanted to work on something so hard and send it out there, and be loved for that work, and in return give love through that work. And it was what he's lived for and I believe that's what he died for. And it honestly made me feel exactly that - overjoyed.


So I thought I'd share some of the things I'm experiencing right now emotionally here. I hope I don't sound completely nuts. Its not something I'm completely latching on to but it is extremely intriguing to me and since I do believe in God, I believe He puts certain things and people in our lives for a reason...and I believe in listening for Him in little things. I also believe in the spirit world. So its definitely not far fetched to me that MJ could be communicating in these little coincidences or odd occurrences. But of course, I fully admit that my tendency to over-analyze things could cloud some of this lol So again, its why I'm not completely latching on to it but its so, so nice to think about.

 

[reibish]

ohhhhh gurrlllll if you want to analyze my dreams, I've had quite a few since he died. I didn't have any that I remembered for a long time, then I had a really sad one last week.

I remember having a few before he died too, here and there, and he was always angry and annoyed in them and we WERE ALWAYS FILMING BOTDF 2 IDK WHY lolololol

But in all seriousness, I've had some experiences since he died that....no one can convince me wasn't him, in some way or another. I consider myself an atheist; that I don't believe in any sort of theology or deities, but I do believe we haven't cracked all the scientific codes and that there IS a scientific way to describe our spirits versus bodies, and that they exist. We already know we have far more than five senses (time, balance, rhythm, height/pressure, etc) so it makes sense to me. So I'm into a lot of new-agey stuff (with a grain of salt) beacuse I believe in a few generations we will figure it out.

He kissed my forehead once. Swear on my life.

 

[MIST]

There has been a thread on MJJC about experiences where your mind, soul leave the body.
I had an accident with a car , the car flipped but I never felt I was upside down.
But I saw myself hanging upside down.
It was only seconds and noone in the car was injured.

Later I read a book by a doctor who interviewed patients who had been resuscitated if they had experienced something special when they were clinically dead and the patients could tell stories about what happened when they were resuscitated and it was consistent with what was in the medical record.
If it´s possible for your spirit to leave your body when you still are alive it must be possible when you die.

I read about a medium who said Michael contacted her.
She said that he said when he realised what was happening he tried to get back but he couldn´t.
I think there is another side and there is a lot to learn there.
I imagine this

Spirits come flyin' from far away, now I'm under their spell
I love hearing the stories that they tell
Spirits have seen places beyond my land and they've found new horizons
They speak strangely but I understand

Maybe you can chose to go to other horizons and never see life on earth again or you can stay close to earth and see what´s going on.

I wish Michael could learn to kick some asses.
I don´t want anyone to be harmed but I don´t mind if some annoying things happens to some people

 

[Petrarose]

There has been a thread on MJJC about experiences where your mind, soul leave the body.
I had an accident with a car , the car flipped but I never felt I was upside down.
But I saw myself hanging upside down.
It was only seconds and noone in the car was injured.

Later I read a book by a doctor who interviewed patients who had been resuscitated if they had experienced something special when they were clinically dead and the patients could tell stories about what happened when they were resuscitated and it was consistent with what was in the medical record.
If it´s possible for your spirit to leave your body when you still are alive it must be possible when you die.

I read about a medium who said Michael contacted her.
She said that he said when he realised what was happening he tried to get back but he couldn´t.
I think there is another side and there is a lot to learn there.
I imagine this

Spirits come flyin' from far away, now I'm under their spell
I love hearing the stories that they tell
Spirits have seen places beyond my land and they've found new horizons
They speak strangely but I understand

Maybe you can chose to go to other horizons and never see life on earth again or you can stay close to earth and see what´s going on.

I wish Michael could learn to kick some asses.
I don´t want anyone to be harmed but I don´t mind if some annoying things happens to some people

Gee you bring to memory something that happened to me when you talk about seeing yourself hanging upside down. I agree that your spirit can leave your body while you are alive. I remember years ago in the 90s meditating before bed just before I said my nightly prayers. I had become very quiet, still and relaxed. It's hard to explain, but I began to feel myself rushing out of myself--I felt "me" coming out of my body in a "whoosh" sound and I began to speed off, up in the air, over vast fields of trees. I was moving very quickly as though I was flying and I became frightened because I knew bodies don't do things like that, so I was trying to keep the "real me body" pushed down on the bed so it would remain and not move, while at the same time the "spirit me" was rushing outside over the fields. I was conscious of both the "me" sitting on the bed meditating and "me" off over the trees. I was able to come back together by just pressing down hard on the bed to stay sort of grounded. Eventually I came back with this "whoosh" sound. I can tell you for weeks later I refused to meditate. That break caused me to lose the ability to see complete colored scenes while I meditated. So I had to begin meditating again for a period of time for it to come back. Thank goodness I never had that "leaving body" episode again. I always wondered what would have happened to me if I had allowed my physical body to relax completely and not try to stay grounded on the bed. I wondered if my spirit would just leave and not return. Maybe I would have died--I don't know.

 

[J5master]

Maybe you can chose to go to other horizons and never see life on earth again or you can stay close to earth and see what´s going on.

Fascinating accounts, both MIST and Petrarose.

MIST what you said here was particularly interesting to me because I've been researching the concept of 'higher consciousness' - which is pretty much what the psychic who contacted MJ believed is possible (I did dig deeper into who she was and what she was about, and thats really the only thing that made me pause...because I'm not sure if her messages from MJ were just a way to 'prove' her beliefs, but at the same time if her beliefs have credibility to it...lol...Idk). But yeah, I've been reading up on it (and if you guys want we can continue a similar discussion here - unrelated to MJ but just the concept of reaching a higher state of being - I really wanna know what you guys think!). And lots of people do believe that when you die, you go to the "next level" of existence so to speak. And you keep learning and growing as a spiritual being, and you have the choice to stay close to the physical world for whatever reason (as you said, maybe MJ could learn how to go poltergeist on some deserving people in his life! lol), or move on further away into the spirit world.

Also I remember the thing you're referring to MIST - its the same psychic, Bonnie Vent. MJ came to her and said that he had 'out of body' experiences a few times before and he always found his way back, just not this time and it shocked him. And that reminded me of Dancing the Dream where he - in poetic words - seem to have meditated to what many call his 'higher self' or spiritual self. And I know MJ in life was very interested in such things.

 

[Petrarose]

^^I don't know what to think about Bonnie. I don't understand why Michael is afraid to say what happened. I don't understand why he appears to not know exactly why he died. I mean, if he is a spirit he should know how he died and know the people can't harm him, unless he is afraid the people will hurt his family? I notice she talked about her guides, which means she is using certain spirits to help, but is the voice she hears always Michael? That is the problem I have with psychics. I feel sometimes certain spirits can pretend to be someone else for whatever reason they have of their own since the spirit world to me is vast. It contains all those who have died since time began.

I did not like the psychics asking about Muarry so soon after Michael died, because if they did indeed get Michael, then I think it makes the dead person relive the "death" process. I don't know if Michael died quickly or if he suffered, so I feel everyone who tries to channel him makes him relive that process which is not nice. I think they have things they want or have to do and here are some people bothering them over and over with foolish questions.

Bonnie mentioned that she wanted Michael to help her with her research because many people don't understand what happens after death. I can understand that, but if she did indeed get michael, and his confusion was real, i.e., he wanted to help his children, etc., and he did not know how to do it, isn't it best to first help Michael with his process. Here is a spirit that is conflicted and does not know what to do and we are asking him questions. I did not like that. I mean I assume I will be a spirit one day, and I would not want someone always asking me all the time: are you there, are you there, and questioning me all the time while I have my own process to go through. In one of the videos the person sounded so overwhelmed, so if it is really Michael I feel Bonnie should first try to help him and then think about the fan questions, Muarry, & murder later.

 

[J5master]

^^I don't know what to think about Bonnie. I don't understand why Michael is afraid to say what happened. I don't understand why he appears to not know exactly why he died. I mean, if he is a spirit he should know how he died and know the people can't harm him, unless he is afraid the people will hurt his family? I notice she talked about her guides, which means she is using certain spirits to help, but is the voice she hears always Michael? That is the problem I have with psychics. I feel sometimes certain spirits can pretend to be someone else for whatever reason they have of their own since the spirit world to me is vast. It contains all those who have died since time began.

I did not like the psychics asking about Muarry so soon after Michael died, because if they did indeed get Michael, then I think it makes the dead person relive the "death" process. I don't know if Michael died quickly or if he suffered, so I feel everyone who tries to channel him makes him relive that process which is not nice. I think they have things they want or have to do and here are some people bothering them over and over with foolish questions.

Bonnie mentioned that she wanted Michael to help her with her research because many people don't understand what happens after death. I can understand that, but if she did indeed get michael, and his confusion was real, i.e., he wanted to help his children, etc., and he did not know how to do it, isn't it best to first help Michael with his process. Here is a spirit that is conflicted and does not know what to do and we are asking him questions. I did not like that. I mean I assume I will be a spirit one day, and I would not want someone always asking me all the time: are you there, are you there, and questioning me all the time while I have my own process to go through. In one of the videos the person sounded so overwhelmed, so if it is really Michael I feel Bonnie should first try to help him and then think about the fan questions, Muarry, & murder later.

Good questions!

Here's my take on it after diving deep into a lot of this stuff. Reading her timeline and her messages about this, it appears that yes - in private - she did help MJ with what he needed to do first, she just didn't say the details publicly because MJ wanted her to keep that private for whatever reason. In those messages, he even said he was very guarded and I can understand why he might be - since the investigation was ongoing at the time, so it was a very sensitive area, not for him but his family. He did say definitively that he was murdered - so in that way he did know what happened to him. And Bonnie maintained that claim before and during Murray's trial. MJ also said to look beyond Murray - so I do get the sense that if it WAS MJ, he did know how he died, or at least had a good freakin hunch about how he ended up the way he did lol, but it was just a matter of him being hesitant about naming names publicly - probably in fear of his children and family (and I believe there was a lot of money grabbing going on obviously unrelated to his death, which is probably what MJ was talking about. The 'control grid.' Hence why in the notes that came out, MJ made clear he wanted to find accountants and lawyers he could trust).

That said, if spirits move on from this world to continue to learn and grow - I don't think they're all-knowing either. MJ said simply that he was surprised that he died (I'd think he would be! Bonnie said the first time he came to her, yes he was confused, because I'm pretty sure he was most definitely planning to wake up) - and that he was adjusting to where he was now, and trying to figure out how to communicate - which is what he needed help with I think. He didn't seem at all concerned about himself and what people might do to him, but more so for his family and kids, above everything else.

According to Bonnie, MJ would be the one to contact her, not the other way around. So I guess its a matter of what you believe when it comes to that. All of the channeling sessions, she claims came directly from MJ - not her guides. Though I have heard her talk of them before, yes.

And as for asking questions - I think its a matter of when things happened. The first couple of channelings seemed to be a few weeks afterwards, and it seems as if Bonnie had already done some things for him that he needed done. And providing that, it was only then that he said he'd be happy to assist with research. All subsequent channelings were months later, and MJ came to her with things he wanted to talk about and in return answered some questions from people who were worried/curious about him. And even in death, at least to me, sounds like a very MJ thing to do.

 

[Petrarose]

OK maybe we looked at different videos, but here is where I am scratching my head:


“Here's my take on it after diving deep into a lot of this stuff. Reading her timeline and her messages about this, it appears that yes - in private - she did help MJ with what he needed to do first, she just didn't say the details publicly because MJ wanted her to keep that private for whatever reason. In those messages, he even said he was very guarded and I can understand why he might be - since the investigation was ongoing at the time, so it was a very sensitive area, not for him but his family. He did say definitively that he was murdered - so in that way he did know what happened to him. And Bonnie maintained that claim before and during Murray's trial. MJ also said to look beyond Murray - so I do get the sense that if it WAS MJ, he did know how he died, or at least had a good freakin hunch about how he ended up the way he did lol, but it was just a matter of him being hesitant about naming names publicly - probably in fear of his children and family (and I believe there was a lot of money grabbing going on obviously unrelated to his death, which is probably what MJ was talking about. The 'control grid.' Hence why in the notes that came out, MJ made clear he wanted to find accountants and lawyers he could trust). “
^^ -What I got from her response to a comment is that he gave her private and public messages not that in private she helped him with what he needed first; like the message for Brooks about the rabbit which is private, and the questions for fans which are more public. Anyway if you think she helped him with his process, then it is not finished because it seems he still is wondering about and can’t speak and help himself. Helping him with his process is showing him how to move on and not about keeping him here to answer questions.
-Why be guarded during an investigation if you spilling the beans will help clear your name, help your children know you did not kill yourself, and help the prosecution with your case. You see to me this does not make sense. You could have given his bombshell which would prevent the AEG case and all his private information being thrown out there and all this would help the same children he is worrying about.
-Ok so to me he was murdered only because someone took his life. He did not die naturally. He said look beyond Muarry only means to me that others had a hand in it and not that Muarry did not give him prof and leave him unattended, etc.; but then why not say exactly what happened and help the case—does not make sense to me. He should not have a “hunch”^ but KNOW exactly what happened, after all it was HE who was killed and the spirit knows.
-OK so a dead spirit, which most people don’t believe in, is afraid to tell it all because the real crooks will bother his children and family? All the people have to do is say your honor this is coming from a spiritualist who got it from a spirit, and none of that would be taken seriously, so what is Michael afraid of? I don’t get it.
-Yeah I know about the notes and people taking all his money for their own use, so why not name them anyway. Everyone will know the information did not come from his children or family, so why would they go and harm them? We have all his family making similar claims and AEG and its officers, or Branca, or Sony did not go out and harm them. I don’t get it. The help is to say Michael who killed you and why. Then, you ask if there is any facts that can be used to help. Then, you tell the DA about it. Then the DA looks for the facts that would bring that out. However, you don’t get that. All you get is fear about what the people will do. Does not make sense to me.

“That said, if spirits move on from this world to continue to learn and grow - I don't think they're all-knowing either. MJ said simply that he was surprised that he died (I'd think he would be! Bonnie said the first time he came to her, yes he was confused, because I'm pretty sure he was most definitely planning to wake up) - and that he was adjusting to where he was now, and trying to figure out how to communicate - which is what he needed help with I think. He didn't seem at all concerned about himself and what people might do to him, but more so for his family and kids, above everything else. “
^^I don’t believe about the not knowing part. I don’t believe they are all-knowing and never said that, but I did say they should know about how they died since they are now in spirit form. It is just like the guides who are spirits being able to help Bonnie. Michael is now a spirit and has more knowledge of things than we physical people have. (Unlike you I don’t think spirits move from this world to continue to learn and grow. I think they move because they must die physically and the spirit form remains alive. I don’t think they grow but that they now become aware of different abilities because they are now spirits, and they engage in those new abilities. I think all spirits have these abilities, like moving around. I think they contact humans for certain reasons which may be good or negative.)
-Yes I agree he is confused as dying suddenly will certainly make a spirit say hey what’s going on. I don’t think he mainly needed help with communication. He seemed to be doing it well to her if it was Michael. To me the problem seemed to be wanting to do things and not understanding or knowing how to help his children. I think that is how a physical person is important. The spirit can contact the physical person who can do physical things, but I did not get that Bonnie did any physical things to help the children, family, or DA. His main concern was his children not help to communicate, to me.

“According to Bonnie, MJ would be the one to contact her, not the other way around. So I guess its a matter of what you believe when it comes to that. All of the channeling sessions, she claims came directly from MJ - not her guides. Though I have heard her talk of them before, yes.”
^What I got was that she contacted him because you hear her saying I am here or something like that when she was on that couch waiting. It seems later after she contacted him then he would talk to her. I don’t think she was just sitting there minding her own business and then Michael came in her head and said hey Bonnie I have some public and private messages for you.
-In one of the sessions she does mention her guides. I looked at that one today from utube. I am not saying Michel spoke through the guides.

“And as for asking questions - I think its a matter of when things happened. The first couple of channelings seemed to be a few weeks afterwards, and it seems as if Bonnie had already done some things for him that he needed done. And providing that, it was only then that he said he'd be happy to assist with research. All subsequent channelings were months later, and MJ came to her with things he wanted to talk about and in return answered some questions from people who were worried/curious about him. And even in death, at least to me, sounds like a very”
^^I still did not get that she helped him with his process since that involves making them understand they are dead and moving on and stop worrying about the people on earth. She could not have helped him if his main concern is his family and children and they are still in the same situation they are in and he did not give disclosures that would put all the people that murdered him behind bars. What type of eternity is it if we are constantly worrying about those we left behind. I did hear her say Michael will help with the research yes.

You see that is why I have a lot of Q about these disclosures these dead people are supposed to make. Then, he repeats the kid is not mine in a song and a long time later she ties it up with that guy. Now you see it deals with how you interpret what you hear. What if that phrase in the song was about the Alkie situation with Brandon? It could mean so many different things.

 

[J5master]

First, I sincerely apologize for all this rambling hahah! I understand if its 'too long, won't read" LOL

-What I got from her response to a comment is that he gave her private and public messages not that in private she helped him with what he needed first; like the message for Brooks about the rabbit which is private, and the questions for fans which are more public. Anyway if you think she helped him with his process, then it is not finished because it seems he still is wondering about and can’t speak and help himself. Helping him with his process is showing him how to move on and not about keeping him here to answer questions.
-Why be guarded during an investigation if you spilling the beans will help clear your name, help your children know you did not kill yourself, and help the prosecution with your case. You see to me this does not make sense. You could have given his bombshell which would prevent the AEG case and all his private information being thrown out there and all this would help the same children he is worrying about.
-Ok so to me he was murdered only because someone took his life. He did not die naturally. He said look beyond Muarry only means to me that others had a hand in it and not that Muarry did not give him prof and leave him unattended, etc.; but then why not say exactly what happened and help the case—does not make sense to me. He should not have a “hunch”^ but KNOW exactly what happened, after all it was HE who was killed and the spirit knows.
-OK so a dead spirit, which most people don’t believe in, is afraid to tell it all because the real crooks will bother his children and family? All the people have to do is say your honor this is coming from a spiritualist who got it from a spirit, and none of that would be taken seriously, so what is Michael afraid of? I don’t get it.
-Yeah I know about the notes and people taking all his money for their own use, so why not name them anyway. Everyone will know the information did not come from his children or family, so why would they go and harm them? We have all his family making similar claims and AEG and its officers, or Branca, or Sony did not go out and harm them. I don’t get it. The help is to say Michael who killed you and why. Then, you ask if there is any facts that can be used to help. Then, you tell the DA about it. Then the DA looks for the facts that would bring that out. However, you don’t get that. All you get is fear about what the people will do. Does not make sense to me.

Right, you're right. I don't believe its finished (hence why in the messages MJ did say he wasn't going anywhere anytime soon), and no - I don't think it was anything that Bonnie could have seriously done to help his family or him, but she seemed to be a psychic (saying that we entertain that its him), that he could trust - that he could speak through directly and deliver messages accordingly through. So only in that way would she be helping him when it comes to his family. The way I saw Bonnie explain 'the process' in other videos was creating a 'bridge' between this world and the next - as really MJ couldn't speak like he was to everyone, not everyone can speak to spirits. And also the 'the process' is simply transitioning from the physical world to where he was in that state at the time, which could take some adjusting to if you believe in the idea that you...won't have all your stuff together, so to speak, the moment you die. But I think mostly, though, MJ wanted her to help him communicate. At the same time, I can see why one might think it was also to help him 'move on' but the way "MJ" was talking, I don't think he wanted to move on - I think he was just trying to adjust to the new situation that he was in, again, if you believe that this is all true.

As far as the investigation - well just based on the things that came out in trial, I'm not sure if its some big bombshell or smoking gun (everything that could come out about murray and his antics did in the trial, I believe), I think MJ might have just wanted to be heard and make sure that people knew that he did not kill himself - which is what people were entertaining at the time (heck, still do). And I think what he did have to say, probably had to do more so with things unrelated to the actual death, but the people surrounding him doing other shady things that all kinda led up to his demise (I believe), though those things may not be directly connected to his death. Things that wouldn't even be admissible in trial or even related to the trial, or even breaking the law in anyway. I think he might have been less concerned about getting justice for himself (though he was, in fact, concerned - at least at first, but according to Bonnie, not anymore) -and more about his family. Which is why he didn't give a play by play of every little thing that happened, and frankly he still might not have known because he was asleep at the time he died anyway.

I remember when MJ was alive and he talked about similar things, he used to be general - and used sweeping descriptions like 'conspiracy' to mean a whole slew of things, which included record companies, the media, people around him, people he knew personally who have lied about him...etc etc. And to me that seemed very consistent in this instance. I got out of it that yes, Murray administered the drug, that was obvious (and I don't think that was something he necessarily needed to prove, though he did kinda wanna be on 'record' just in case as saying he was murdered) - but he was also the victim of manipulators who may do the same thing to his kids. And in that instance, he was still very aware that even though he was speaking through someone, he was still speaking publicly, and anything publicly that he might say may have consequences for people who are still on this earth, unintentionally or intentionally. Even if it may not have meant much to you or I, he might have seen a consequence that we don't see - and would rather not talk about it, err on the side of caution.

So I guess what I'm saying, even though we may not get why - I kind of understand why MJ might have been guarded, just thinking back on how he was in life. That is if you believe that the personality doesn't change when you move on (which is what I believe)...I think its a habit. I think MJ kept saying "I'm saying this publicly" - and he was hyper aware, as he probably would be, that he was making a 'statement' of sorts, and although he wasn't on the physical plane he still was in the habit of being cautious because he knows how this kinda stuff works (speaking publicly), and he just rather not take that risk of saying too much out of habit, in case it affects someone else involved, because thats just the mentality he's in and has always been in. Plus if it wouldn't help the case for the public to know (but rather certain, specific people would need to know), then he'd probably keep his mouth shut publicly about it. Especially if there's nothing the public could really do in the situation he was talking about.

This is of course, entertaining the idea that you are still learning after you pass on - and if you entertain this idea, then MJ keeping some habits from when he was alive makes perfect sense. But if you don't then this supposed communication with MJ is understandably unbelievable.

^^I don’t believe about the not knowing part. I don’t believe they are all-knowing and never said that, but I did say they should know about how they died since they are now in spirit form. It is just like the guides who are spirits being able to help Bonnie. Michael is now a spirit and has more knowledge of things than we physical people have. (Unlike you I don’t think spirits move from this world to continue to learn and grow. I think they move because they must die physically and the spirit form remains alive. I don’t think they grow but that they now become aware of different abilities because they are now spirits, and they engage in those new abilities. I think all spirits have these abilities, like moving around. I think they contact humans for certain reasons which may be good or negative.)
-Yes I agree he is confused as dying suddenly will certainly make a spirit say hey what’s going on. I don’t think he mainly needed help with communication. He seemed to be doing it well to her if it was Michael. To me the problem seemed to be wanting to do things and not understanding or knowing how to help his children. I think that is how a physical person is important. The spirit can contact the physical person who can do physical things, but I did not get that Bonnie did any physical things to help the children, family, or DA. His main concern was his children not help to communicate, to me.

I understand where you're coming from here. Its really all about what you believe. The way I understood someone else's interpretation of all this is as such, and I'm translating this in the case of MJ and Bonnie's supposed communication with him: yes, you leave the earth and be in spirit form. And you do gain insight and abilities that you didn't have - again 'higher consciousness,' perhaps the removal of perceived sight that we as humans have and obviously the physical. And because you have these abilities - I can imagine it would be possible to have to literally adjust to this new 'life' - and by learning to adjust, you are essentially learning and growing into the spirit that you are (much like being born in the physical world, and learning to adjust to being 'human' and understanding all the things you can do as a human on earth) - IF that is what you want to do, but some believe you have a choice (hence why we have spirits still roaming around in our physical world, if thats what you believe). You can chose to keep moving up, or you can stay close to the physical world and keep an eye on people you love or whatever you feel you want to do. That said, staying close to the physical is obviously difficult because the physical world is largely unaware of the spirit world. And obviously as you grow into your spirit self you gradually start letting go of that life you once lived, really start to understand the new 'sight' that you have and wisdom that you have as a spirit and wish to 'move on' so to speak (but again, just because you have knowledge doesn't mean you always want to act on that knowledge) . But I think 'everyone is different' applies here as well. This interpretation asserted that spirits have emotions, which is a major factor as to why they would still be concerned with matters of the physical even when they're in the spirit realm.

And specifically as to relates to MJ or his kids, if I were in his position (well, God forbid not anytime soon lol) - I wouldnt know what to do either even if you're a spirit, because you're removed from the physical world. You can't really act on it. And even if he could act on it (for instance through bonnie - which...might not have been possible either because she's not anyone that has any pull or influence), there might not have been a lot he could have done - I mean, he obviously couldn't do much for himself when he was alive and we know he knew he had some shady characters around him. Which is why Mj said that no matter what his efforts, it really didn't change anything (perhaps trying to speak to his family directly, or other psychics who really weren't out for his best interests). But as far as communication goes, yes he was doing well with Bonnie, which is why he thanked her and thats exactly 'how' she was helping him, because he might have found that she was really the only person who could 'hear' him that he felt he could trust. And communication is the only way, perhaps at the time, that he felt he could help his kids. Again, not everyone can see/hear spirits, and even if they got a 'sense' of one, its probably not enough to make change happen because they could brush it off as imagination. And no, we didn't get any sense that she did anything physically - but maybe she just didn't express that info. Again, she seemed to have done things in private for MJ (outside of verifying that it was him through a family member), by her own admission that she wanted to keep quiet.

What I got was that she contacted him because you hear her saying I am here or something like that when she was on that couch waiting. It seems later after she contacted him then he would talk to her. I don’t think she was just sitting there minding her own business and then Michael came in her head and said hey Bonnie I have some public and private messages for you.

True Another possibility could be that she already got some sign that he was around, and knew that he was there. From the timeline she posted, it seemed as if after the initial "wtf just happened' contact, she left it alone until the next day when she claimed she experienced a sign that MJ was still around trying to connect. And then later that day there were more signs of Mj trying to communicate (the Jermaine story, she said she got a sense of his emotions with not being able to reach him), then the day after that were the channeling videos (the one on the couch, and I just rewatched it so thanks for mentioning that!), where yes, it does say she's trying to reach him. She explained she usually doesn't do that, but given previous connections that she had with him, perhaps she didn't feel like she was intruding. She said she wanted to see if there was anything she could do to assist him.

So yeah now looking back, i definitely got my understanding of the timeline wrong (and I probably mixed up some videos - where there were months in between, and MJ/Bonnie said that there were instances where she was helping MJ privately). But having rewatched the initial video, I can still understand why certain things panned out. She kept getting signs of MJ trying to reach out, and she's kinda like 'well, lets see if I can help and if I help him, maybe he can help us' because, as she said, she got the feeling that he might say yes given the kind of person he was. No harm in asking, and only at that point did MJ simply answer her question - that yes, he'd be willing, mostly because she was helping him by allowing him to speak through her.

What type of eternity is it if we are constantly worrying about those we left behind. I did hear her say Michael will help with the research yes.

yeah, I see what you mean. I guess from my perspective, its actually a better life. For me, I enjoy life because of the journey and the process - happiness doesn't taste as sweet unless you go through something to get there. And if that journey suddenly just ends and we're just blissful happy beings for ever and ever with no purpose other than being perfectly happy...its kinda...I don't know. For me personally, its not fulfilling and I know that sounds weird. LOL The way this 'belief' was described, its not necessarily being stuck in a place for eternity - but simply moving on to the next level. "Graduating" so to speak. So you gain more of your spirit self, but you continue to have purpose in your spirit self. And in order to have purpose, you have to have feelings, and in order to have feelings - it has to be more complex than perfect happiness. I think you'll be more 'free' of restrictions of your physical self, but perhaps being free of those restrictions isn't the end all. Maybe theres a higher consciousness than even the spirit world.

And I think in MJ's case, it is simply natural at first for him to be worried about those he left behind at first. Especially at first. If we entertain the thought of spirits still having emotions, wouldn't it kind of be sucky if suddenly you just stop caring about those you left behind? I think whatever 'higher consciousness' or insight you get in the spirit world would push you to obviously to let it go, but I don't think it would be easy for everyone. And maybe it just wasn't for MJ - for whatever reason (again, thinking back to spirits still 'haunting' the physical plane if you believe in that). I think eventually he may learn to let it go after a while and move on to better things, or maybe he would just choose to have 'one foot in and one foot out' of both worlds because he cares so much. Also very likely. You have more freedom to do what you want, according to this belief, so its kinda whatever makes YOU happy. Again, this is only going with the belief that you're still growing and reaching for things in the next life. Because you can't grow or reach for things or have much purpose if you don't have free will to do what you want to some degree.

And yeah its all about interpretation - with the Billie Jean lyrics. I thought about that too. And that's her interpretation, I don't think she ever said thats what MJ meant by it - she just drew the obvious connection one might make, perhaps as a way to to offer a very loose point of potential 'evidence' that this is MJ, since she probably didn't know about either situation at the time she got those lyrics.

I am so so so sorry for making this a freakin essay. I know people prob get annoyed by this lol! But I genuinely enjoy this discussion and I appreciate we have different view points!

 

[Petrarose]

^^Yeah I see what you are saying, but about this too:

I remember when MJ was alive and he talked about similar things, he used to be general - and used sweeping descriptions like 'conspiracy' to mean a whole slew of things, which included record companies, the media, people around him, people he knew personally who have lied about him...etc etc. And to me that seemed very consistent in this instance.

It seems too much like the physical Michael talking again, as though someone knows what he usually say and then try to show him being in the similar way. I mean come on you are a spirit now and have many abilities... I don't know it seemed too scripted. Like someone listening to the type of music he makes and then makes something similar to that because they were influenced by it.

I don't know to me a spirit should be more vocal in what they want. My dream about my dead dad was very direct. He said what was bothering him and what he wanted to stop, and what he said was based on real facts. I guess I can't get over this big hush hush MO about not saying who killed you and why if you know. He is acting like a spy from a black and white detective novel. It seems to me that these dead people who feel they have been unjustly used or killed what to show you what happened. They will lead you and show you all types of disturbing things to show you what happened. Either Michael did not trust her enough to tell her, did not think she would help, or some other reason.