#MJforever57
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We have alot of discussions going on here this is a new thread.
We have alot of discussions going on here this is a new thread.
I am not sure if OTW is underrated within the fandom. It's just that fans have a more diverse taste within MJ's discography than say critics in the media who always focus on either Thriller or OTW. So in comparation OTW maybe seems a bit less appreciated in the fandom because the fandom appreciates so many other things in MJ's works than just those two albums. (And don't forget it's the fans who keep listening to MJ's records over and over again, not the critics, who maybe give an album one or two listens and then give their two cents based on those limited listens.) Some fans have OTW as their #1, some don't particularly care for it, but that's natural in a fandom. I don't think that generally makes it underrated.
I first became a fan during the Bad era as a kid, listening to the Bad album. Then I bought all other albums but I remember it took me time to fully appreciate OTW while Bad was instantly accessible to me. Now I LOVE OTW. I think cultural background, age matters in this - eg. I noticed European and younger fans tend to gravitate more towards later works (Dangerous, HIStory) while US fans or older fans are more into Thriller, OTW. This is a gross generalization, I know, so by no means I see this is a rule with no exceptions.
This is a good point, IMO. It's easy for OTW to shine now as sounding fresh and new, when that sound is "in" again. I do remember when towards the late 80s, early 90s OTW sounded a bit weird and "dated" to me compared to the sound that was in at the time. Which I suspect is the reason why it took me time as a kid to start appreciating it. If NJS suddenly had a revival then Dangerous would sound "fresh" too in a current musical climate that is heavily inspired by that sound.
But I do agree that real instruments always make an album less suspectible to "dating" than instruments that are fashionable at a given time.
The thing is the music critics, and MJs former fans would have been just as eager to support his work post OTW and Thriller if Michael had not deviated from what was truly making successful, all of his subsequent albums would have sold more than what they actually did
BAD and Dangerous have outsold Off The Wall, and if Michael kept making Off The Wall and Thriller clones people would have said he's not original and keeps doing the same thing over and over again.
I love that all of MJ's albums had their own unique style to them.
Im not referring to the style of music, Im referring to the attributes that represented the real reasons for his success and his support in his home country would not have waned the way it did
BAD and Dangerous have outsold Off The Wall
But he didn't want to just reach his home country. He wanted to reach the entire world
The thing is the music critics, and MJs former fans would have been just as eager to support his work post OTW and Thriller if Michael had not deviated from what was truly making successful, all of his subsequent albums would have sold more than what they actually did
It doesn't seem to occur to him. LOL.
But my post had nothing to do with comparations of the sales of OTW/Thriller to later albums. This is just another attempt by BBD to derail the thread in the direction of his pet topic (MJ abandoning his black fans and roots bla-bla-bla).
The mods already created a seperate thread for this, because he just keeps derailing every thread with the same thing: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/137706-Michael-s-Career-After-Thriller
So if anyone wants to discuss that topic I suggest to go there. In this thread it is best to ignore it unless we want to make him successful in his derailment.
The lack of music videos compared to other albums may have something to do with it. And the videos from it are a mere shadow compared to ones he would later create.
Agree with Matt the acoustic SOOML is far superior to album version.
BAD and Dangerous have outsold Off The Wall, and if Michael kept making Off The Wall and Thriller clones people would have said he's not original and keeps doing the same thing over and over again.
I love that all of MJ's albums had their own unique style to them.
Are you being deliberately antagonistic?
He had already reached the entire world with his first two albums, especially with Thriller, the balance existed and then he lost that balance afterwards
An his intentional sales from the laye 80s on never matched what he achieved with Thriller,
Which tells me that the music itself plays a secondary or even tertiary role in many latter fan's mind when it come to MJ.
Let's be honest here, BBD is absolutely on the money, MJ lost a large segment of his original fanbase. Why are we in denial here?
Let's be honest here, BBD is absolutely on the money, MJ lost a large segment of his original fanbase. Why are we in denial here?
The main reason those album outsold OTW, is because of the heavy marketing campaign. OTW got barely any marketing, and there was no worldwide OTW tour. Relatively speaking, OTW probably would have sold just as many as BAD/Dangerous with all the marketing efforts. #rememberthat
No one on earth has outsold Thriller though, so you can't really hold it against him that he himself wasn't able to.
Let's be honest here, BBD is absolutely on the money, MJ lost a large segment of his original fanbase. Why are we in denial here?
Michael never tried to be a 'black' artist... Why would any true artist want to be put in a box like that?? He wanted to reach everyone and sell as much as possible.. And he did that!
he made music for mankind... not for any group of people.. He was too great for 1 group to claim as there own.. He was everyones
But see, this is the problem, a naive person would see it that way, but let's keep it real here, MJ knew by whitening the music, that he would gain more non-blacks, if his music were as funky and heavy as James Brown would he have gained the same support from non-blacks?
MJ was ALWAYS a pop artist, ever since I Want You Back. The whole artistic model of Motown was to make music that is accessible to a wide audience and with a BIG emphasis on "crossing over" to a white audience. So when exactly got MJ's music "whitewashed"? And what does that even mean? Is NJS white now? Are Teddy Riley, Rodney Jerkins, Jam & Lewis etc. white? True, there was Bill Bottrell and Bill Buxer. Just like there was Toto and there was Paul MCcartney and there was Van Halen during OTW and Thriller. Fortunately MJ wasn't as narrow-minded as some of his fans are.
It creates a very hostile situation because the crossover model creates a great deal of hostility and resentment without the newly found audience is not informed about it
The crossover model does not create racial harmony but ambivalence, and that model creates conflict within the artist who finds himself thrusted into it
The model creates a great deal of damage and should be done away with
I've read countless reviews back in the day on Dangerous and History where they specifically called Michael's music "blacker." You've said repeatedly that Michael got away from his R&B roots after OTW. So, now, as you say, it wasn't the music itself, what 'attributes' represented the REAL reason for his success?Im not referring to the style of music, Im referring to the attributes that represented the real reasons for his success and his support in his home country would not have waned the way it did
Im not referring to the style of music, Im referring to the attributes that represented the real reasons for his success and his support in his home country would not have waned the way it did
MJ was ALWAYS a pop artist, ever since I Want You Back. The whole artistic model of Motown was to make music that is accessible to a wide audience and with a BIG emphasis on "crossing over" to a white audience. So when exactly got MJ's music "whitewashed"? And what does that even mean? Is NJS white now? Are Teddy Riley, Rodney Jerkins, Jam & Lewis etc. white? True, there was Bill Bottrell and Bill Buxer. Just like there was Toto and there was Paul MCcartney and there was Van Halen during OTW and Thriller. Fortunately MJ wasn't as narrow-minded as some of his fans are.