Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

MJ didn't always have this Husky voice (is it scary !!! or YRMW for example)



That's why i think the last part of Monster is not sung by MJ...too

I never ever said that Mike always sings with his husky voice, I just pointed out that when he sings it is always recognizable, no matter which song.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

not specific to this song or this part, generally speaking : are you taking into account the additional supporting vocals for the accent and the phonetics? I mean it's already stated that James Porte did some vocals. Some parts could have been completed by him and/or other people hence the difference.

Then, I'm afraid the supporting vocals overwhelmed the lead vocal; for, the vocals that stand out to me are the non-Michael one.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

not specific to this song or this part, generally speaking : are you taking into account the additional supporting vocals for the accent and the phonetics? I mean it's already stated that James Porte did some vocals. Some parts could have been completed by him and/or other people hence the difference.

And that is the whole problem. Why completing leading vocals with another singer and call it a Michael Jackson song? Would you like to hear a complete IN THE BACK song with James Porte vocals whenever there's a gap?

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

What's the fact? What Sony and the Estate SAYS? And not more than half the community's ears who doubt the vocals?

And let me tell you that you are making excessive use of your authority here (being moderator here). So is the above just an opinion of yours, or some kind of warning? Please remember to differentiate

My opinion is that moderators should post less and not get into one on one conversations posting all the time making extra use of their authority. We know your opinions alright

if you read my posts or other moderators posts you'll see that we said that there's no hard proof from either side and that all we say is personal opinions. This applies to you, this applies to me, this applies to everyone here.

Also due to the arguments we again again said to differentiate between an opinion and fact - be careful to word it in a such format- and do not force opinions on people as they are indisputable facts - again this goes to whatever you might believe and support.

My post about "opinion -fact" was for the use of the word "never". I reminded the rules.

Being a moderator isn't and shouldn't be a barrier for me to post my opinion or get respect for it. and I can assure to you that I'm not using my authority as I didn't delete a single post, gave an infraction etc. If I abuse my authority in anyway you can report me, until then please learn to respect me - not as a moderator but a human being with an opinion.

 

[Milka]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

My opinion is that moderators should post less and not get into one on one conversations posting all the time making extra use of their authority.

That's ridiculous. Unless they warn me with mentioning that it's a warning or they warn me via PM, I'd never read "extra use of their authority" into their posts. They are fans too, they have opinions, they want to discuss them. You seem to be on a crusade against everybody on this board.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

if you read my posts or other moderators posts you'll see that we said that there's no hard proof from either side and that all we say is personal opinions. This applies to you, this applies to me, this applies to everyone here.

Also due to the arguments we again again said to differentiate between an opinion and fact - be careful to word it in a such format- and do not force opinions on people as they are indisputable facts - again this goes to whatever you might believe and support.

My post about "opinion -fact" was for the use of the word "never". I reminded the rules.

Being a moderator isn't and shouldn't be a barrier for me to post my opinion or get respect for it. and I can assure to you that I'm not using my authority as I didn't delete a single post, gave an infraction etc. If I abuse my authority in anyway you can report me, until then please learn to respect me - not as a moderator but a human being with an opinion.

Do you have a proof that you are a human being or is it just an opinion?
I am asking that because some pretend that there is no such thing as a human being, we're just animals standing on two feet.

jokinkg

 

[thriller25]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

he sped it up by 9%?? thats massive

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Thank you very much ivy, you are completely right!

I enjoy nearly all of your posts & your knowledge in legal matters are much appreciated!

You are doing a great and very well balanced job as a moderator.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

if you read my posts or other moderators posts you'll see that we said that there's no hard proof from either side and that all we say is personal opinions. This applies to you, this applies to me, this applies to everyone here.

Also due to the arguments we again again said to differentiate between an opinion and fact - be careful to word it in a such format- and do not force opinions on people as they are indisputable facts - again this goes to whatever you might believe and support.

My post about "opinion -fact" was for the use of the word "never". I reminded the rules.

Being a moderator isn't and shouldn't be a barrier for me to post my opinion or get respect for it. and I can assure to you that I'm not using my authority as I didn't delete a single post, gave an infraction etc. If I abuse my authority in anyway you can report me, until then please learn to respect me - not as a moderator but a human being with an opinion.

Regarding opinion-fact: Then the title thread should be changed for I see no hard proof, just an experiment by someone

Regarding the bold: I think it is very cheap to do that. I never said you shouldn't have an opinion. I myself was always talking about freedom of speech in this forum. What I meant is that you shouldn't "dress up" an opinion of yours as warning or rule

EDIT I do not force opinions. I just state my opinion and I don't care if it is not pleasant to some

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

And that is the whole problem. Why completing leading vocals with another singer and call it a Michael Jackson song? Would you like to hear a complete IN THE BACK song with James Porte vocals whenever there's a gap?

In a perfect world - in which MJ was alive and finishing his albums - I'll agree with you completely. However in the actual world that we are in, I tend to think this is unfortunately the reality of a posthumous releases - unfinished songs need to be finished somehow someway.

For example don't get me wrong I love love love the song "Hollywood Tonight" but the spoken part is way too long IMO. You think why and it's probably no second verse was recorded and they had to fill the gap. so in the end you get songs with spoken parts, duets, additional vocals, adlibs cut and pasted from other songs. Again yes this wouldn't happen in a perfect world but unfortunately we are living in a sad reality.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Ok, many have compared Monster's vocals to Privacy vocals (???) Now, please, I am begging you, listen again the two songs and please compare as objectively as you can:

1) Michael's typically husky voice is clearly present on PRIVACY and absent/different on MONSTER

2) Neither the depth nor the voice timbre (color/tone) is the same.

3) And most importantly that we mustn't neglect - the accent and the phonetics!
Listen when the singer pronounces the phrase "stalking me" on MONSTER at 3:58 and compare it to the same phrase "stalking me" on PRIVACY at 0:30!!!! Not only the accent is completely different, but the way the phonemes are pronounced, especially the phoneme "S"!

PRIVACY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8pY9bNsrY

MONSTER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdV5YTpuKIs

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Monster is a song that was always going to cause debate. Even back when Vince was released a few were convinced that Michael wasn't singing 2000 Watts, even though he was there promoting the album. People will always have different opinions about things and when vocals are processed with melodyne, autotune, whatever and it makes it sound different to what we expect from an artist we are bound to raise soe doubts. We'll never know for sure as we haven't got Michael to perform it or talk about it.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Monster is a song that was always going to cause debate. Even back when Vince was released a few were convinced that Michael wasn't singing 2000 Watts, even though he was there promoting the album. People will always have different opinions about things and when vocals are processed with melodyne, autotune, whatever and it makes it sound different to what we expect from an artist we are bound to raise soe doubts. We'll never know for sure as we haven't got Michael to perform it or talk about it.

I agree with this.....as you said...Michael is the ONLY one that would know the truth.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Regarding opinion-fact: Then the title thread should be changed for I see no hard proof, just an experiment by someone

Exactly! How come someone is allowed to say this is PROOF? The title of the thread should be changed....

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Just a reminder to everyone that this is a debate thread by all means, but this is not a thread for 'its real' 'its fake' posts.

 

[Graf]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

It sounds the same to me :mello:

It doesn't sound like Michael...now if they are saying they had to use all sorts of production effects, but at the cost of making it not sound like him...Then I'm confused on why they would not give more specific information, let us hear the pre produced vocals..Do some literal specific things, because I'd love to believe that I hear Michael singing this song, but I personally do not know what I am hearing...

Am I hearing vocals so altered to the point of not sounding like Michael or am I hearing another person's vocals?

Either way, Sony and the Estate should have not put them on the album IMO

 

[Garden]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Ok, many have compared Monster's vocals to Privacy vocals (???) Now, please, I am begging you, listen again the two songs and please compare as objectively as you can:

1) Michael's typically husky voice is clearly present on PRIVACY and absent/different on MONSTER

2) Neither the depth nor the voice timbre (color/tone) is the same.

3) And most importantly that we mustn't neglect - the accent and the phonetics!
Listen when the singer pronounces the phrase "stalking me" on MONSTER at 3:58 and compare it to the same phrase "stalking me" on PRIVACY at 0:30!!!! Not only the accent is completely different, but the way the phonemes are pronounced, especially the phoneme "S"!

PRIVACY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8pY9bNsrY

MONSTER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdV5YTpuKIs

Good work, but :
why should the "husky" effect of Michaels voice always be the same?
Privacy is not really so much identical to Monster, neither sung in the same era...
Why should the depth and the timbre be the same?
Why should the pronounciation be the same?
For instance me, I moved a lot, I studied and worked in different places, it's very human that it influences the way I pronounce words, so it is normal that my pronounciation has been/is not the same all the time...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

In a perfect world - in which MJ was alive and finishing his albums - I'll agree with you completely. However in the actual world that we are in, I tend to think this is unfortunately the reality of a posthumous releases - unfinished songs need to be finished somehow someway.

For example don't get me wrong I love love love the song "Hollywood Tonight" but the spoken part is way too long IMO. You ask why and it's probably no second verse was recorded and they had to fill the gap. so in the end you get songs with spoken parts, duets, additional vocals, adlibs cut and pasted from other songs. Again yes this wouldn't happen in a perfect world but unfortunately we are living in a sad reality.

I completely understand. But even with Michael gone I just can't stand the idea to have another vocal completing him with someone who never did a single duet with Michael. If I were rude I would ask who the hell is that James to have such a privilege?

Besides there are finished songs. They could have put the finished songs. We are not James's fans. There are other way to finish a song. They could have released them as a demo on a bonus CD or keep the song for a duet album with some artists that Michael appreciated.


p.s. What bothers me is that Michael released In The Back when he was alive without completing the song himself, so why completing Monster or BN?!

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

changed the title

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Thanks ivy

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Still sounds nothing like him to me. Keep trying though, I'm intrigued to see if MJ's true vocals are attainable.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So singing voices don't change over the years is what you're saying?

Funny how Michael's voice changed back after being with the Cascios (HMH, WBSS 08, THIS IS IT, BOJ + +)

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Regarding opinion-fact: Then the title thread should be changed for I see no hard proof, just an experiment by someone

And your signature also shouldn't be allowed, or changed into something appropriate!

@ ivy:
Is there something which can be done about his signature, cause he is clearly stating his interpretation as fact.

And it's so close to his statement section, if an unexpierienced person comes to the board, he'll be misled, by reading this ish.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

In a perfect world - in which MJ was alive and finishing his albums - I'll agree with you completely. However in the actual world that we are in, I tend to think this is unfortunately the reality of a posthumous releases - unfinished songs need to be finished somehow someway.

For example don't get me wrong I love love love the song "Hollywood Tonight" but the spoken part is way too long IMO. You ask why and it's probably no second verse was recorded and they had to fill the gap. so in the end you get songs with spoken parts, duets, additional vocals, adlibs cut and pasted from other songs. Again yes this wouldn't happen in a perfect world but unfortunately we are living in a sad reality.

I totally understand it's not possible to have posthumous release that meet Michael's perfectionist standard. Sony, the Estate and the producers can only work with what are left in the vault. That means they may need to piece incomplete demos together and fill the gaps with supporting vocals - pretty much what they did on Monster and Breaking News. But, I still have a hard time thinking it's the right thing to do. Of course, I want and welcome the release of materials in the vault. Best of Joy, Much Too Soon and Behind the Mask are great songs. We give rave review to BOJ, MTS and BTM becasue we hear Michael. We hear his joy, his energy and his emotion.

Different people have different goals. Sony and the Estate want to maximize profits. So, they wouldn't put all the great and genuine songs in one album. They will keep doing what they did on MIHCAEL. Fans, on the other hand, wanted songs with genuine Michael Jackson vocals. It's life. It's hard to always get what we want.

 

[Garden]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Bumper Snippet, I answered without listening to the Privacy video, because I know it too good, I used to dance on it dayly.
But now I have listened to that video clip and it sounds not like on the CD. I am going to relisten it on CD now. I know ofcourse this has nothing to do with Monster, but it says that you can't trust everything that is on YouTube. I'll be back and will admit it when I'm mistaking.

Peace.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So many whiney babies around here

 

[JMie]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

thank you to the thread starter. I've always thought that all the Cascio tracks are sung by Michael, but it's interesting to get this new info.

If Monster is the next single, I would really like for them to include the original version on the CD.

 

[Graf]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Still sounds nothing like him to me. Keep trying though, I'm intrigued to see if MJ's true vocals are attainable.

It's pretty funny how we are experimenting with the vocals to get it to fully sound like Michael :lol: ...but it's also a little...odd :mello:

Funny how Michael's voice changed back after being with the Cascios (HMH, WBSS 08, THIS IS IT, BOJ + +)

Yeah it is.. -_-

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Good work, but :
why should the "husky" effect of Michaels voice always be the same?
Privacy is not really so much identical to Monster, neither sung in the same era...
Why should the depth and the timbre be the same?
Why should the pronounciation be the same?
For instance me, I moved a lot, I studied and worked in different places, it's very human that it influences the way I pronounce words, so it is normal that my pronounciation has been/is not the same all the time...

-Michael's husk is recognizable in any husky voiced song he did, younger or older. His husk or sparkling voice is imitable, but never equaled.

-The depth indeed can be regulated, but the timbre never. It is just like your fingerprints or your DNA. Even if you sing through a pipe, your voice through a pipe will not sound as someone else's voice. It will just sound your-through-the-pipe voice. It's the part of your identity.

-The pronunciation of phonemes is the key. Especially phonemes such as "s". Your pronunciation of "s" will differ from someone else's due to many factors, such as the length of your tongue or the shape of your teeth, or the distance between your tongue and your teeth. The "s" that I hear on MONSTER is completely different from the "s" that I hear on PRIVACY, no matter the era or the rhythm.

-As far as your accent is concerned, that can change according to the environment in which you live, but the way you pronounce some phonemes will never change, as it is not necessarily due to the voice skills, but the shape of your teeth, mouth or throat.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Funny how Michael's voice changed back after being with the Cascios (HMH, WBSS 08, THIS IS IT, BOJ + +)

yes, quite funny :mello: