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New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

barbee0715 said:
I have to admit that I bristle when you lump all Americans together like that-because I wasn't like that..
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Not all. Just most. Unfortunately most Americans were against MJ, if one believes those polls
Most people believe whatever they hear from the media no question asked and the American media was fully against MJ. Most were easily brainwashed.

barbee0715 said:
Absolutely. Child abuse is the most heinous of crimes in ANY country, not just America.
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That's unfortunately not true. Child abuse is rampant and tolerated in many third world countries
Yemen , Pakistan Thailand to name a few.
It should be considered the most heinous of crimes but it's also true
that in the developed world only America has a history of horrible witch-hunts over bogus child molestation
charges in recent decades. Just because the allegation is horrible and comes from a kid
does not mean it's true. That principle is usually ignored in America. People automatically believe the kid, simply
because he is 13. It's a form of agism, to be frank.
Look at the San Antonio Four case I don't see how those women would have been convicted
in Sweden or New Zealand, it was just insane.
 
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redfrog said:
Not all. Just most. Unfortunately most Americans were against MJ, if one believes those polls
Most people believe whatever they hear from the media no question asked and the American media was fully against MJ. Most were easily brainwashed./QUOTE] And I would say because most of us at my age and Michael's age were brought up with the mainstream media being a noble profession and we still thought of it that way-it was with the advent of 24 hour cable news that the lines sneakily became blurred and finally you couldn't tell the difference between a tabloid and the real news.
Sadly, they're virtually one and the same now.




That's unfortunately not true. Child abuse is rampant and tolerated in many third world countries
Yemen , Pakistan Thailand to name a few.
It should be considered the most heinous of crimes but it's also true
that in the developed world only America has a history of horrible witch-hunts over bogus child molestation
charges in recent decades. Just because the allegation is horrible and comes from a kid
does not mean it's true. That principle is usually ignored in America. People automatically believe the kid, simply
because he is 13. It's a form of agism, to be frank.
Look at the San Antonio Four case I don't see how those women would have been convicted
in Sweden or New Zealand, it was just insane.
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Obviously, I wasn't talking about third world countries-You can add the UK to the child molestation witch hunt group of countries.
You also have to remember that all of us baby boomers started having children in the 80's and things really started changing then-Child abuse cases absolutely terrified parents-and it became much more open- Children were going missing and killed. things started like "Stranger Danger", etc. I am not making excuses for witch hunts at all, by the way. The whole thing repulses me.
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barbee0715 said:
Obviously, I wasn't talking about third world countries-You can add the UK to the child molestation witch hunt group of countries.
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Yes the UK has lost it since the Saville case but not on a scale as the US lost it in the 80s and 90s. The Wenatchee witch-hunt alone
would be enough for 10 other countries. How something like that could happen in a civilized place is just beyond me.
And when Cliff Richard was falsely accused after two years the media by en large treated him with respect
and the police even apologized for that raid. Can you imagine the SBDS and Sneddon apologizing for raiding Neverland
with 70 cops?

barbee0715 said:
The whole thing repulses me.
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Me too.
 
One thing I'm curious about is if they or any of them were paid to appear on the show. I find it hard to believe Hultman would do it for free. Someone did ask that question on Reddit,but it was one of the questions she didn't answer. To throw Wade's allegations in was unfair as obviously their only going off allegations without the wealth of testimony they had in the trial but I'm not all that surprised either. It will be long while before we see anything that is 100% objective, if ever.
 
Do did it really prove how bogus this case was? Cuz to me it doeesnt
 
The one thing I'm sure of is that the Stranger Things trailer is getting a lot more attention than this show is. And that I think says a lot.
 
It's over. [FONT=&quot]
They brought up the Robson allegations and the majority of them dismissed them. And they also brought up the Radar Online child porn stuff and they dismissed that as well-they said if there had been such material, the prosecution would have presented it. The white guy, Ray, was doubtful and made funny faces all through his part and thought Michael was guilty, but he also thought the prosecution didn't prove their case. The others said the jurors, including Ray, were given opportunities to prove why they felt that way-but there were no answers then or now. The big surprise was the young black guy, who was an alternate, and didn't say much at all got to vote this time and he actually voted guilty.
Why? He believed Gavin.

A little bit different than the one about OJ last night-both prosecution and defense attorneys were represented. This time only Tom and Aphrodite Jones spoke. No Zonen-big surprise since he's in ALL these Reelz documentaries. The only person kinda speaking for the prosecution was Ray, the juror and the narrator, who just told the story, not his side.
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Did they have an alternate juror on OJ one? It's odd that they had an alternate juror in this one. They don't take part in deliberations or voting for the verdict.
 
barbee0715 said:
The big surprise was the young black guy, who was an alternate, and didn't say much at all got to vote this time and he actually voted guilty.
Why? He believed Gavin.
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Did he lose his mind or someone paid him to say this?
Castello didn't say after the verdict that he would have voted guilty.
In this interview he said he trusted the other jurors and whatever they come
up with he would stand 100% behind them.

 
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This was positive and that was very good to see. Thanks God for the others jurors who was able to convince the others three jurors that this was a not guilty verdict because of a reasonable doubt (not sure) As you see the prosecutor fell in this case not enough evidence so the only verdict that this jury can come back with is not guilty.
 
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These jurors do not know the truth about what happen in 1993 their need to go back and read what happen and why there was a settlement. One of the juror had said because Michael did not have a childhood that this must be part of the problem I do not believe that Michael would not hurt a child he love the childrens.
 
respect77 said:
I assume they didn't have enough jury members who agreed to participate on the show so they went for an alternate to fill in. It's unfair considering he was the only one who said he would vote "guilty" now. Not even Hultman did. When this guy wasn't even on the original jury. Also he bases his "guilty" verdict on Robson's new allegations, obviously knowing nothing about the details of that case. Maybe he was brought in exactly for that dramatic effect of someone changing his mind due to new developments which seems to be the concept of the show.
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I thought maybe lack of others participation was the case. The only interesting thing he had to say was the beginning when he said he was the only African American on the jury or alternate jury, so Michael didn't really get a jury of his peers.
I was watching it and I didn't get that he changed his mind bc of Robson. They all seemed to dismiss that to me. The 3 women asked him why and he said he believed Gavin.
Ray also believed Gavin, not on the stand, but on his taped interview with the police.
One of them acted a little disgusted and said nobody pressured anybody. If he wanted to hang the jury, he was certainly entitled to do so. Ray really didn't say all that much-just little interjections throughout and these funny WTF type faces. It was hard to tell what side he was on. Oh, he did say he didnt believe Robson or Macauley at all.

Another interesting thing was that they went over the timeline briefly. The Bashir show aired, the family gave an interview and told the police nothing happened and after that, Michael supposedly molested Gavin. One lady said obviously Michael told them to leave and they left for the lawyers.
 
redfrog said:
Not all. Just most. Unfortunately most Americans were against MJ, if one believes those polls
Most people believe whatever they hear from the media no question asked and the American media was fully against MJ. Most were easily brainwashed.




That's unfortunately not true. Child abuse is rampant and tolerated in many third world countries
Yemen , Pakistan Thailand to name a few.
It should be considered the most heinous of crimes but it's also true
that in the developed world only America has a history of horrible witch-hunts over bogus child molestation
charges in recent decades. Just because the allegation is horrible and comes from a kid
does not mean it's true. That principle is usually ignored in America. People automatically believe the kid, simply
because he is 13. It's a form of agism, to be frank.
Look at the San Antonio Four case I don't see how those women would have been convicted
in Sweden or New Zealand, it was just insane.
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Again Red, you can not say MOST. Sorry but many people who love MJ do not be on website everyday, talk about him everyday and respond to polls. Do you know how many people were in my home last night? people but I was the only one on the computer (my sister and her husband and her daughter and son in law do not have a computer, my brother voted out of town, my father does not know who to work a computer and my mother's is acting up. so out o 8 people in just my househouse, 2 voted Yet MJ is loved by 6 on that alone and that does not count my friends, co workers, extended family members, and other nieces and nephews and neighbors. You have to keep this stuff in perfective. America has over a 100 million people and to judge something that takes a poll of 200 people some voted mutli times does not give accurate.
 
respect77 said:
I assume they didn't have enough jury members who agreed to participate on the show so they went for an alternate to fill in. It's unfair considering he was the only one who said he would vote "guilty" now. Not even Hultman did. When this guy wasn't even on the original jury. Also he bases his "guilty" verdict on Robson's new allegations, obviously knowing nothing about the details of that case. Maybe he was brought in exactly for that dramatic effect of someone changing his mind due to new developments which seems to be the concept of the show.
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That nut is going to base guilty on Robson now the one WHo was on the stand IN THE COURT OF LAW and defended Jackson FROM 1993 UNTIL 2012 AFTER DEATH.No, h sound like he is wanting to jump on a bandwagon and make money rom that angel. No one in their right mind would believe such a thing. oh wait, I wonder if that juror know Wade wants to make $$$$$$$$. That makes no sense. I agree with your last sentence he was brought in from the dramatic of the show. It is he was not there for logi.
 
redfrog said:
Did he lose his mind or someone paid him to say this?
Castello didn't say after the verdict that he would have voted guilty.
In this interview he said he trusted the other jurors and whatever they come
up with he would stand 100% behind them.

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He did not want to look like he is black and MJ is black and he is for then "black guy". No one with a brain shoul think Mj was guilty. And look, then ones who wanted to think Mj was guilty was NOT going on the FACTS until the others told thm to and they wanted book deals. See, why we have innocent people who go to jail. As for Ray, I would to know more about his background. I believe he has "secrets" in his life. Believe me.
 
well IF there would be any negativity from a jury member - I'm glad it is from an alternate.. and if Robson case is the bases on it, it shows that it's not based on facts - just the look of possibilities.
 
I agree, but it's a pity they had to bring in Wade's accusation. The juror's based their decision on a thorough trial, all the evidence, testimony from both sides and between them agreed a not guilty verdict in 2005.
Then the show's producers chuck in some untested (in a court of law) allegations and ask the jurors if they changed their mind. To say that is unfair is an understatement IMO.

I guess the jurors weren't provided with all the information we know about those allegations, rather they were probably just told about the claims and nothing else. The case will probably never even go to court! Fair enough that could be dismissed as a technicality, and probably will be by the media and trolls, but even without that the allegations were simply not credible.
 
Looks like Oxygen has the episode up on there site.. needs flash player though and I'm not gonna DL that on my work computer.. hopefully I can get it working at home tonight!
 
ivy said:
Did they have an alternate juror on OJ one? It's odd that they had an alternate juror in this one. They don't take part in deliberations or voting for the verdict.
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No, they didn't have an alternate juror, but they had a juror that was kicked off toward the end of the trial. So she didn't get to vote originally. This time she did.

(Seems like a lot of jurors got kicked off during the OJ trial-a lot of alternate jurors ended up being used).
 
Why do people keep saying that he was guilty or that they aren't sure when the evidence clearly shows that these people were NOT telling the truth?

Evidence:

-Claimed that they were kidnapped and falsely imprisoned at neverland, yet store receipts clearly showed that they left Neverland on 3 occasions and returned on 3 occasions..This PROVES that they were LYING about being kidnapped and falsely imprisoned.

-Claimed that Jackson called them and told them that their lives were in danger and that they needed to fly out to Miami to do a press conference. Chris Tucker testifies that the reason why they were in miami is because Gavin had called him and told him that the media were hounding them and that they wanted to know where MJ was and so he flew them down to miami. This was corroborated by phone records, according to a private investigator. This PROVES that they were LYING about MJ calling them to go to Miami.

-Claimed that Jackson provided alcohol to Gavin on an airplane. Flight attendants testified that they saw no such thing. This PROVES that they were LYING about being given wine on an airplane by Jackson

-Originally claimed that molestation occurred shortly after the documentary aired, which meant it was BEFORE the rebuttal video was shot and BEFORE the interview with the DCFS, but when the evidence of the rebuttal video and DCFS interview was discovered, they suddenly changed their stories and starting claiming that everything happened AFTER. This is a HUGE discrepancy. It shows that these people conveniently changed the timeline when the evidence contradicted what they were saying. If these allegations were true, that never would have happened. This shows deception, which is more proof that they were LYING.

-Star Arvizo claimed that he snuck into mJ's bedroom and saw him molesting his brother. But an alarm in Mj's bedroom proved that there's no way that Star could have snuck up there unnoticed, and it was also determined that because of where he claimed that he was standing and his height, there's no way that he could have seen anything...This proves that he was LYING about seeing his brother being molested..

-Gavin claimed that MJ told him that if he didn't masturbate he would go crazy and rape women, but later admitted that his grandma was the one who told him that. He also claimed to have been molested seven times, but later reduced it to two times. He claimed he was molested Before the documentary aired and that was why Jackson made him do the rebuttal video, so that if he claimed he was molested, nobody would believe him, but then changed his story to after the video. He testified that he and his brother stayed in Jackson bedroom "everytime" that he was there, but neverland employees testified that the boys stayed in the guest units for the majority of the time they visited and they knew this because they always kept their rooms messy, and the list goes on..These various lies and inconsistencies is not that of a child who is telling the truth.

All it takes is one lie to convince a jury that a person is not telling the truth. These people committed perjury various times, yet people insist that he was guilty. Anybody who says they believe Gavin is either very stupid or just plain delusional...
 
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^ Because the general public doesn't know the evidence.. the courtroom was not televised. For most they only heard what "journalists" said about what happened in the court room.. And considering they had an agenda to make him look guilty for "good dramatic TV"... That's what they have to go off of
 
KOPV said:
^ Because the general public doesn't know the evidence.. the courtroom was not televised. For most they only heard what "journalists" said about what happened in the court room.. And considering they had an agenda to make him look guilty for "good dramatic TV"... That's what they have to go off of
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Thank you. That's the evidence that the jury heard. That's not what we were hearing.
 
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