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People who think Michael's guilty but still buy his music

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WhoIsIt89 said:
Err not really, that's like saying what if Henry Ford or Karl Benz were a pedophile, would you stop driving your car? Hell no, because it's an everyday tool that people use in daily life. A person's musical catalog isn't.


Wow.
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So if it's an everyday tools, that makes it ok to use?
Even tho the inventer is a pedophile?
 
J5master said:
Yeah, i think supporting an artist is WAY different than buying equipment that is manufactured and run by several different people in a corporation.

And yes I don't get how one can listen/support MJ's music and think he's a pedophile.It would be different if MJ wasn't so personal with his art, but he certainly was, and he talked about children quite a bit. So it would be hard to separate that.
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Its the exact same thing. Even music isn't done by one person. You have the songwriter, the producer, people who plays the instrument, sound engineers and so on. It's a whole corporation in it self.

I say it again, to me, it would't matter had he been a pedophile. I would still listen to all of his songs.
the only differense is, that i would't like him as a person, or hang out on forums discussing him.
 
Let me put it this way: an object, such as a computer, is a soulless thing. We do not have any emotional connection to our computers or the Internet. However music is something that pretty much expresses and connected to the soul of its creator and/or performer. I'd be pretty disturbed by it if I listened to a love song that he might have sung with victim of his on his mind.
 
It's ironic that we are even discussing this. Last night I was watching a bit of tmz and they were discussing the greatest sports anthem of all time.
Turns out it's a song that I don't know originally but heard forever by marching bands. Rock and Roll 2??
And they were all horrified to find out that it was written by Gary Glitter, a convicted pedophile. So they discussed this like we are awhile before I turned it off. Don't know what the outcome was.
It doesn't matter.
I still couldn't separate something I love with all my heart and soul.
 
respect77 said:
Let me put it this way: an object, such as a computer, is a soulless thing. We do not have any emotional connection to our computers or the Internet. However music is something that pretty much expresses and connected to the soul of its creator and/or performer. I'd be pretty disturbed by it if I listened to a love song that he might have sung with victim of his on his mind.
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I agree, but there are some people who have emotional connection to music too. They see it as ''just music'' and nothing else.
 
But people who see it as just music-would they BUY it or go to a concert, etc. I don't think so.
 
Well whatever :p Me personally, I connect emotionally in some way (no matter how small) to all music I listen to, otherwise I wouldn't listen to it. I dunno about everyone else. lol Its quite crazy to think about NOT being able to connect to music and yet, like it.

The fact that I'm allowing myself to be emotionally affected by the music of a sexual predator would not sit well with me, knowing there could have been criminal intentions behind the song in the first place. Its really as simple as that.

Its not about just enjoying one or two songs occasionally on the radio. Its about actively going out and buying and investing in the music as a fan - which would be incredibly weird to me.
 
respect77 said:
Let me put it this way: an object, such as a computer, is a soulless thing. We do not have any emotional connection to our computers or the Internet.
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Tell that to millions of people who adore their latest apple gadget, who look at Steve Jobs like he was a God.
I bet you none of them would stop using his product or service if they found out anything bad about him, and
i dont find anything wrong in that.

People who can separate two things from one another dont have any problem with doing so.
People who look at the world in black and white, do.
 
J5master said:
Its not about just enjoying one or two songs occasionally on the radio. Its about actively going out and buying and investing in the music as a fan - which would be incredibly weird to me.
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You could download the music, and not support the artist.
 
I bet that 90% of you who says that you wouldnt listen to his music if he was a pedophile, would continue to do so anyway.
Of course, you would have rationalisations for doing so. We humans are expert in coming up with explanations for out actions.


And plus, its hard staying away from MJs music.:punk:
 
Haka why are you so defensive about this?


And I can tell you right now, me personally would NOT continue to listen to MJ's music if I thought he was guilty. Period. No way could I sit there and listen to songs like Heal the World and MITM and Lost CHildren and pretty much ALL his love songs and not feel really icky.

I think the difference also comes in the fact that the SITUATION matters too. In THIS case, you would have someone who gets off on ruining the lives of innocent children - and who's whole persona is pretty much based around children and childhood. It is in his song and dance. Its in pretty much everything he does. He mentions it in every interview. That is not the case for anyone else you've mentioned, not for these Apple companies or any other electronic company. The situation is different because the product would be - in MJ's case - saturated with the offense.

So you can bet all you want but me personally? no way.

But its a good thing we don't have to worry about that because MJ is innocent anyway lol

You could download the music, and not support the artist.
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By downloading the music, you give money to the artist and therefore support the artist.
 
Yes. Downloading is the same as buying it at the store. I have always tried to look at the world in a "grey" way-I put myself in other peoples shoes and try to understand all views.
But some things are pretty black and white for me.
Child abuse and elder abuse. Animal abuse. They're totally and completely vulnerable.
If Michael had been found guilty, yes, I would still support and love him because I know in my soul that he didn't do it.
But if it was a FACT that he did do it (and he'd probably have to tell me himself), then I would be heartbroken and never listen to another note.
 
J5master said:
Haka why are you so defensive about this?


And I can tell you right now, me personally would NOT continue to listen to MJ's music if I thought he was guilty. Period. No way could I sit there and listen to songs like Heal the World and MITM and Lost CHildren and pretty much ALL his love songs and not feel really icky.

I think the difference also comes in the fact that the SITUATION matters too. In THIS case, you would have someone who gets off on ruining the lives of innocent children - and who's whole persona is pretty much based around children and childhood. It is in his song and dance. Its in pretty much everything he does. He mentions it in every interview. That is not the case for anyone else you've mentioned, not for these Apple companies or any other electronic company. The situation is different because the product would be - in MJ's case - saturated with the offense.
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This!

Michael's whole message is centered around bettering the world, healing the world, saving the children, a deep empathy to abused children etc. That message would make him a total hypocrite if he meanwhile abused children. In his songs he sings things like:

"he wrote that she is tired of stepdaddy using her
Saying that he'll buy her things, while sexually abusing her"

If I thought that then he would turn around and anally rape Wade Robson and James Safechuck while "buying them things" for their silence, then there is no way I would keep listening to him. One of the qualities of art that is important to me that it has to be genuine. If I feel an artist is not genuine and not honest in his art then I'm not interested.

This is why it's totally different to computers, Apple or whatever fallacious analogue HakaVelli tries to bring.
 
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respect77 said:
This!

Michael's whole message is centered around bettering the world, healing the world, saving the children, a deep empathy to abused children etc. That message would make him a total hypocrite if he meanwhile abused children. In his songs he sings things like:

"he wrote that she is tired of stepdaddy using her
Saying that he'll buy her things, while sexually abusing her"

If I thought that then he would turn around and anally rape Wade Robson and James Safechuck while "buying them things" for their silence, then there is no way I would keep listening to him. One of the qualities of art that is important to me that it has to be genuine. If I feel an artist is not genuine and not honest in his art then I'm not interested.

This is why it's totally different to computers, Apple or whatever fallacious analogue HakaVelli tries to bring.
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Damn, that was graphic lol. Anyway, I was listening to a podcast a few weeks ago. One dude went, I don't remember his exact words, but he said something like "music is so powerful, despite the kid stuff, you play P.Y.T and people start dancing." I guess that's why some people can listen to his music while thinking he's guilty.

I would not be able to do that. I do not buy music anymore but I know I would not have bought the remastered versions of his albums if I thought he was guilty.
 
J5master said:
Haka why are you so defensive about this?
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Im not. I dont need to. The ones who are being defensive is everyone in this thread that are claiming they would just stop
listning to music they loved for years. Liers.

Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.

You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.


J5master said:
By downloading the music, you give money to the artist and therefore support the artist. [/COLOR]
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So if i download an artist music, from Piratebay, i give money to the artist?
 
HakaVelli said:
Im not. I dont need to. The ones who are being defensive is everyone in this thread that are claiming they would just stop
listning to music they loved for years. Liers.
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Temper temper. Sorry but if I thought MJ was guilty I would have ceased being a fan. There are plenty of actors, singers, athletes and authors out there that I acknowledge are very talented at what they do however, I have zero interest in them because I find some aspect in their personal life to be problematic.

HakaVelli said:
Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.
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If the 2005 trial had gone the other way, we'd be here defending and supporting him because he was an innocent man wrongfully convicted. Not because we were mindless Stans.

HakaVelli said:
You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.
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We are aware MJ wasn't perfect; it's actually part of his charm. We rush to his defense in the face of trolls and haters who never stop with their uninformed narrative. You know, like your comments above.
 
HakaVelli said:
Im not. I dont need to. The ones who are being defensive is everyone in this thread that are claiming they would just stop
listning to music they loved for years. Liers.
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I do not appreciate you calling me a "lier" when you do not even know me (and I guess others do not either), so please stop with the personal attacks just because people have a different opinion than you.

Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.
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Being convicted does not necessarily mean someone is guilty and being aquitted does not necessarily mean someone is innocent. The legal system can make mistakes. I do not believe in MJ's innocence because he was aquitted but because I studied the cases thoroughly. And I can assure you I did not need to "make up" any story to think MJ was innocent.

You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.
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I hope you realize that there are indeed a lot of lies out there about MJ and a lot of people lie about him. So of course fans will defend him against those lies.
 
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I don't defend Michael because I'm a fan. I defend Michael because he is innocent
 
HakaVelli said:
Im not. I dont need to. The ones who are being defensive is everyone in this thread that are claiming they would just stop
listning to music they loved for years. Liers.

Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.

You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.




So if i download an artist music, from Piratebay, i give money to the artist?
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You can only say what you would do not what others on the forum would do. I would not be a fan of any artist I felt was a child molester PERIOD! Sure I defend Michael and I don't believe he should ever be attacked on his own forum. YES you will get your butt handed to you if you attack him here BECAUSE THIS IS THE KING'S FORUM. Haters should take that mess elsewhere but let's be clear. I don't defend people who harm children. Oh, and bleaching your skin is not a crime! MJ had a skin disease and used bleaching creams to keep brown shots from forming. It's the same thing as people who take high blood pressure pills to keep their elevated pressure under control.
 
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I would stop loving the man I loved for years … It is much more than just music.

I would be totally heartbroken and lost.

I care about the man with all his imperfections and interested in his music because it gives me a chance to get a “look at” his heart. When I say I am a Michael Jackson fan, it means I adore the man and so his music. It is obvious I will defend him in all his mistakes (or lies about him) because he is just a human and he is a human I care about!!!

It is hard for me to listen to Michael’s music knowing that the man is gone, the sadness overshadow it all …

IF he would be guilty - to listen or not would not be the question, I would not know what to do with my whole life.
 
It appears to me that one of those people who this thread is about is amongst us. Just say it
 
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HakaVelli said:
Tell that to millions of people who adore their latest apple gadget, who look at Steve Jobs like he was a God.

I bet you none of them would stop using his product or service if they found out anything bad about him, and i dont find anything wrong in that.

People who can separate two things from one another dont have any problem with doing so.
People who look at the world in black and white, do.
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I do think it depends on what "bad" they found out about Jobs. From most accounts, Jobs could be mean, rude and cold. It's easy to overlook those kinds of traits for the love of a computer. But anal raping young boys (per crazy Wade Robson allegation), I think that would definitely affect one's feeling about purchasing his products.
 
HakaVelli said:
Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.

You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.
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Are you saying you think he was guilty? Thorough study of the evidence is what needs to be done in order to decide what you think about something, conviction and acquittal is a very simplistic way to look at it. When a person makes a claim the burden of proof is on them, from a logical and evidential standpoint we are not required to believe the claim unless there is sufficient evidence to prove it which there never has been. It isn't fair to say that people only defend Michael because they want to adore him, this is not the only possible reason why people defend him, you are making an assumption that tries to speak for everyone which isn't accurate. It is a verifiable fact that many people have lied about Michael, so it's not unreasonable for people to have doubts about accusations made, and again, unless the person can provetheir claim we're not required to accept it as fact.

I also don't understand why you mentioned skin bleaching as though it was a bad thing, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Michael was using beneoquin cream, it's used to treat the skin disease vitiligo. The coroner's report confirmed that Michael did in fact have this disease, so treatment for it was necessary.

A description of benoquin cream and what it is used for:
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-6691/benoquin-top/details

Information about vitiligo:
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/guide/vitiligo-common-cause-loss-skin-pigment

Here's link including Michael's death certificate and autopsy report:
http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/jackson,%20michael_report.pdf

On page 6 of the document (page numbers are at the very top of the screen when viewing this document) patches of light and dark pigmented skin is reported. Page 14 of the document (anatomical summary) mentions vitiligo. Page 17 mentions depigmentation of the skin. Page 39 mentions vitiligo. There is no denying the fact that he had this skin disease, therefore it would not be fair to complain about the use of benoquin cream since it's one of the treatments.
 
HakaVelli said:
Im not. I dont need to. The ones who are being defensive is everyone in this thread that are claiming they would just stop
listning to music they loved for years. Liers.

Like i said, i think you and everyone else in this thread, had he been convicted, would have continued denying and make up some story that everyone is lying.

You just need to read through this forum to understand that. MJ wasn't perfect, he was human afterall. But in here, some
news come up about some idiot claiming MJ did this or did that, and everyone rushes to his defense attacking the accuser. Everytime!
They do that because no one want to adore a guy who bleach his skin, or other things that MJ have been accused of over the years.




So if i download an artist music, from Piratebay, i give money to the artist?
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I am NOT lying. I already said previously that had he been convicted, I still would support him and listen to his music-because I would not believe for one second that he was guilty.
Yes, back then, I didn't need any evidence-and I still don't-but in the past six or seven years since I bought my own personal computer and the Freedom of Information Act has allowed more and more information to be posted for the public, it's really obvious that he wasn't at all-in either case. And it was all a vicious witch hunt, which is way worse than I even thought at the time.

I never thought Michael was perfect-I know he wasn't-and yes, sometimes he didn't always tell the full truth about things-maybe he said he "didn't bleach his skin" because of what that means to most black people, but he did say he was using medication to even it out-which is the cream. Sometimes I would raise my eyebrow at stuff he said but it was never anything bad-Do I think his team decided to send in that hydrobaric chamber picture to NE-probably. Do I think his team planted the story about the Elephant Man bones? Not sure. Do I think he really knew that his "History" trailer was modeled after "Triumph of the Wills"? Yes. He's a huge Charlie Chaplin fan-and Chaplin parodied that exact same movie.
That's just excellent PR stuff. Show business stuff that adds to the fascination and mystique.
I think that's something he learned a long time ago at Berry Gordy's knee.

I think Michael not only created this public persona, but he created a private persona too-the one inside in his heart that was so strong that he became that person.

Even though I don't agree with you, I really am trying to understand this, though-to see it in the "grey" way that you described. Today I heard on the news that they had a poll-and even though we've had all these "scandals" this week with players and domestic abuse, child abuse, rape, etc., 98% of US people will still watch the NFL play. So, obviously people can hate the act, but separate it from the game. Personally, I think they will continue to watch only because certain people will not be playing. It would be interesting to see how many people actually stop watching or keep watching if these certain people continue to play.
 
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