Prop 8 Overturned In California

[144000]

1 It should have never been voted on in the first place
who are we to vote on the marriage rights of others

2 People do not understand the judicial system
even though the law was voted on and passes doesn't make it automatically right and the permanent law. it is still subject to review by courts
it could have passed with 90% vote and still be revoked because it is how america has always and will always work.
George W. Bush lost the popular vote yet he was elected president. why? because the electoral college voted differently and take precedence over the popular vote.

3 Separation of Church and State
the founding fathers established this principle in many documents
the first amendment to the constitution states that the government can not deny the freedom of religion, however, it also states that government should not create laws respecting a particular established religion

4 The Bible is not the authority
The Bible also condones slavery and killing those who don't observe the sabbath(resting on sunday)
To Christians out there, your not suppose to pick and chose what parts of the bible you like, and your not even suppose to be judging others in the first place

5 God
IF god says homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals are condemned to hell then why did he make homosexuality a natural occurrence among animals. I thought god was suppose to be looking out for us and be all loving.
Did it ever occur to people that there might not be a god or if you chose to believe in god then did it ever occur that maybe this condemnation of homosexuality is man derived and not truly god's word. If you take everything in the bible as god's word you should also be promoting slavery, genocide of non believers, and killing those who work on Sunday of course in accordance with god's word


I am not homosexual but recognize injustice/intolerance/hypocrisy/religious bigotry/discrimination when I see it and it is all applicable in this case.

The issue will make it to the supreme court eventually though and gay marriage will be allowed

the Jews are historically recorded as being delivered from slavery, in the Bible. it records the God of the Bible as delivering them from slavery, and hating that they were in slavery. remember Exodus? remember the movie 'the ten commandments' that they show on network tv every year, where Moses is the one designated to lead them out of slavery?

and do not look at me as condemning gays, because i ask you to read something before you comment on it, because i do not condemn gays, by pointing you to something that you haven't read. because i don't condemn anyone. i have yet to see anyone truly read what they are commenting on, because they obviously didn't read what was there. there is a verse in the Bible that says 'lean not to thine own understanding'. the entire Bible is based on that verse. that means, chances are, whatever you say about the Bible is wrong. and i'm not going to pretend to explain it, because the understanding the Bible refers to, is also my understanding. as well as yours.

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Guys.... the mankind is dating to 3 million years, and the human race - homo sapiens sapiens=today´s people are old 100-40 thousands years.... so BIBLE and "GOD" (or any religion) are irrelevant here!!!!

Homosexuality is the inseparable part of the human nature and nature itself.

Only people who wanted to create the Godhead strictly separated only the parts they wanted them to be venerated.

Only people created GODs and religions.

I recommend to read a book - Homosexuality In History


+

Gay Life & Culture: A World History

A Natural History of Homosexuality

Homosexuality and Civilization

 

[ginvid]

1 It should have never been voted on in the first place
who are we to vote on the marriage rights of others

2 People do not understand the judicial system
even though the law was voted on and passes doesn't make it automatically right and the permanent law. it is still subject to review by courts
it could have passed with 90% vote and still be revoked because it is how america has always and will always work.
George W. Bush lost the popular vote yet he was elected president. why? because the electoral college voted differently and take precedence over the popular vote.

3 Separation of Church and State
the founding fathers established this principle in many documents
the first amendment to the constitution states that the government can not deny the freedom of religion, however, it also states that government should not create laws respecting a particular established religion

Either you are misapplying this or are you saying homosexuality is a religion? Otherwise it makes no sense in the context of the discussion here. You could mean that religion should not determine laws (Maybe) but even that is not true. Religion has always governed law and it always will as long as people are religious. It even played a hand in the development of the US despite what they wrote on that paper.

4 The Bible is not the authority
The Bible also condones slavery and killing those who don't observe the sabbath(resting on sunday)
To Christians out there, your not suppose to pick and chose what parts of the bible you like, and your not even suppose to be judging others in the first place

Again, someone without an understanding of the Bible trying to use it to throw stones at others. The Mosiac law covenant and the the "New Covenant" set up as a part of Christianity are two separate things. Christians are no longer under that law and do not have to abide by it. And simply because the Bible is not the authority for you, you must by now understand in your life that it is the authority for many and many adhere very strongly to it.

5 God
IF god says homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals are condemned to hell then why did he make homosexuality a natural occurrence among animals. I thought god was suppose to be looking out for us and be all loving.
Did it ever occur to people that there might not be a god or if you chose to believe in god then did it ever occur that maybe this condemnation of homosexuality is man derived and not truly god's word. If you take everything in the bible as god's word you should also be promoting slavery, genocide of non believers, and killing those who work on Sunday of course in accordance with god's word

God does not say homosexuals are condemned to hell. And animals can do what ever they like. They are not bound by any spiritual priciples merely instinct. They also kill, rape, steal, you name it. But they are not reasoning beings and do not have an understanding of the laws that govern themselves. And again this tirade about slavery, genocide, and the Sabbath does nothing but belie your own ignorance of the Bible and your own lack of understanding.

I am not homosexual but recognize injustice/intolerance/hypocrisy/religious bigotry/discrimination when I see it and it is all applicable in this case.

What you recognize is what you want to recognize. i usually do not comment on threads such as these because I do not want to seem as though I am stirring up controversy. But I cannot be idle while the same people on the thread who look for equality and tolerance and so forth take aim and so aggregiously condemn, sterotype and denounce attitudes and actions which they do not understand and which are different from theirs. They do they same thing as religious fanatics and it is very disheartening. If those who believed in the Bible were to start rattling off on homosexuality, they would be called homophobic, yet it is acceptable here for people to go on and on about the Bible and those who believe? Whatever!!! The intolerance comes through in the ignorance of some of the comments in this thread. And I for one am sick of it. You guys spout out pure venom in blanket statements and it angers me. It is also offensive. I'm sorry Travis, I did not mean to derail your thread and I hope from this point on it can be a more positive thread on both sides and people on both sides can agree to disagree with demeaning others and their beliefs.

The issue will make it to the supreme court eventually though and gay marriage will be allowed

I believe it will.

 

[123Jam]

Generally abrahamic religions are against homosexuality therefore it is believed to be unacceptable(for them to be together let alone marry), HOWEVER, this can not be established as a law of the government simply because this belief is part of the majority of religious institutions.

I'm sure you will agree with me that the United States is not a theocracy but many of those in government often heed their religious beliefs while in office ideally they should not though because the united states government is based on John Locke's social contract and derives its power from the people not god.

Regardless of the details of the Bible (whether it says one thing or another)
in no case should it be used as the authority for the judicial system. One religion may call for one thing and another religion call for another



The overall point is that for SOME people(due solely to their religious beliefs) feel homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. It is their right to feel this way and a church can deny homosexual couples marriage if they want BUT the government whether federal or state can not.


Im sorry if i offended anyone or gave misinformed details about the Bible but i just wanted to point out the flaws and lack of logic in arguments against allowing homosexuals to marry.

Either you are misapplying this or are you saying homosexuality is a religion? Otherwise it makes no sense in the context of the discussion here. You could mean that religion should not determine laws (Maybe) but even that is not true. Religion has always governed law and it always will as long as people are religious. It even played a hand in the development of the US despite what they wrote on that paper.



Again, someone without an understanding of the Bible trying to use it to throw stones at others. The Mosiac law covenant and the the "New Covenant" set up as a part of Christianity are two separate things. Christians are no longer under that law and do not have to abide by it. And simply because the Bible is not the authority for you, you must by now understand in your life that it is the authority for many and many adhere very strongly to it.



God does not say homosexuals are condemned to hell. And animals can do what ever they like. They are not bound by any spiritual priciples merely instinct. They also kill, rape, steal, you name it. But they are not reasoning beings and do not have an understanding of the laws that govern themselves. And again this tirade about slavery, genocide, and the Sabbath does nothing but belie your own ignorance of the Bible and your own lack of understanding.




What you recognize is what you want to recognize. i usually do not comment on threads such as these because I do not want to seem as though I am stirring up controversy. But I cannot be idle while the same people on the thread who look for equality and tolerance and so forth take aim and so aggregiously condemn, sterotype and denounce attitudes and actions which they do not understand and which are different from theirs. They do they same thing as religious fanatics and it is very disheartening. If those who believed in the Bible were to start rattling off on homosexuality, they would be called homophobic, yet it is acceptable here for people to go on and on about the Bible and those who believe? Whatever!!! The intolerance comes through in the ignorance of some of the comments in this thread. And I for one am sick of it. You guys spout out pure venom in blanket statements and it angers me. It is also offensive. I'm sorry Travis, I did not mean to derail your thread and I hope from this point on it can be a more positive thread on both sides and people on both sides can agree to disagree with demeaning others and their beliefs.





I believe it will.

 

[ginvid]

Generally abrahamic religions are against homosexuality therefore it is believed to be unacceptable(for them to be together let alone marry), HOWEVER, this can not be established as a law of the government simply because this belief is part of the majority of religious institutions.

I'm sure you will agree with me that the United States is not a theocracy but many of those in government often heed their religious beliefs while in office ideally they should not though because the united states government is based on John Locke's social contract and derives its power from the people not god.

Regardless of the details of the Bible (whether it says one thing or another)
in no case should it be used as the authority for the judicial system. One religion may call for one thing and another religion call for another



The overall point is that for SOME people(due solely to their religious beliefs) feel homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. It is their right to feel this way and a church can deny homosexual couples marriage if they want BUT the government whether federal or state can not.


Im sorry if i offended anyone or gave misinformed details about the Bible but i just wanted to point out the flaws and lack of logic in arguments against allowing homosexuals to marry.

OK, Understood. I do agree with you in saying US government is not a theocracy. As such, we cannot (and I do not) expect for Biblical laws to govern it. And as our society becomes more and more secular, we will see the prevailing attitudes once governed by the Bible being overturned more and more in matters of government.

I think we can agree on this. :flowers:

 

[Siyahamba]

As someone from a country that has had marriage equality for over five years now, I have to say: What's the fuss? Opposite-sex Canadian couples are still getting married, and they're still having children. Churches are still free to marry and not marry whom they choose. The sky hasn't fallen.