Bonnie Blue
Proud Member
? Mj's estate isn't a party, they refused to join the plaintiffs against aeg.
MJ and his mother are seen as relevant people to blame for mj's death, but apparently not murray - acc to aeg's lawyers.
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Proposed Verdict Forms by Katherine Jackson and AEG
- Thread starter ivy
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? Mj's estate isn't a party, they refused to join the plaintiffs against aeg.
MJ and his mother are seen as relevant people to blame for mj's death, but apparently not murray - acc to aeg's lawyers.
Bubs
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I'm very confused now:blush:
This trial is not about whether CM is guilty or not and AEG is not going to deny CM was the one that killed MJ.
Maybe that's why they want in verdict form names that are part of this trial, plaintiffs, defendants and MJ.
I didn't say anything about the estate? Their names weren't put into verdict form, but they are involved in a way that they are looking after Michael's benefit during the trial.
If its still not clear, you are going to have to spell it to me
This trial is not about whether CM is guilty or not and AEG is not going to deny CM was the one that killed MJ.
Maybe that's why they want in verdict form names that are part of this trial, plaintiffs, defendants and MJ.
I didn't say anything about the estate? Their names weren't put into verdict form, but they are involved in a way that they are looking after Michael's benefit during the trial.
If its still not clear, you are going to have to spell it to me
Bonnie Blue
Proud Member
ok, i'll try to spell it out, you've got me confused now lol!
I would have thought the reason aeg don't want murray's name on the allocation of blame is obvious, it's nothing to do with who they think is 'party to the lawsuit' - it's because they want to deflect blame for what murray did (which is pretty irrefutable gross negligence) away from themselves by just not naming him, and instead put mj and his own mother in the firing line for who the jurors should be blaming for mj's death. Not sure why a mj fan would want that?
This trial i imagine is going to be the jacksons claiming all the blame of what murray did should be aeg's responsibility, and aeg will be claiming all the blame of what murray did was mj's responsibility. I'm thinking Murray will be portrayed by both sides as a mere puppet - such a contrast with the murray trial where it was clear murray was the villain. Tragically because there's poor evidence of aeg controlling murray, all this trial will do is focus on aeg putting 100% blame of mj's death onto mj, with murray just appearing as a pawn of mj's.
I'm not really understanding your 'party to the lawsuit' argument as a reason for murray's noninclusion (have aeg lawyers used this argument?), but was just pointing out how even using that criterior, murray's noninclusion didn't work. MJ is dead so he can't be party to the lawsuit ie plaintiff or defendant - he's the victim. But you can argue after death, his legal representation is his estate, but as we know the estate isn't party to this lawsuit either - and no i don't regard filing as a 3rd party to protect mj's medical records which they have rights over, somehow makes mj a 'party to this lawsuit' and so 'allows' his name to go forward onto an allocation of blame form.
I would have thought the reason aeg don't want murray's name on the allocation of blame is obvious, it's nothing to do with who they think is 'party to the lawsuit' - it's because they want to deflect blame for what murray did (which is pretty irrefutable gross negligence) away from themselves by just not naming him, and instead put mj and his own mother in the firing line for who the jurors should be blaming for mj's death. Not sure why a mj fan would want that?
This trial i imagine is going to be the jacksons claiming all the blame of what murray did should be aeg's responsibility, and aeg will be claiming all the blame of what murray did was mj's responsibility. I'm thinking Murray will be portrayed by both sides as a mere puppet - such a contrast with the murray trial where it was clear murray was the villain. Tragically because there's poor evidence of aeg controlling murray, all this trial will do is focus on aeg putting 100% blame of mj's death onto mj, with murray just appearing as a pawn of mj's.
Last edited:
September 10 Update
Katherine Jackson / Plaintiff's proposed verdict form
1. Was Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 2. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
2. Did defendants know or should have known that Conrad Murray was unfit or incompetent and that this unfitness or incompetence caused a particular risk to Michael Jackson?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 3. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
3. Did Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson and the Jackson plaintiffs?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 4. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
4. Was defendants negligence in hiring supervising and retaining Murray a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson and Jackson plaintiffs harm?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 5. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
5. What are plaintiff KJ total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 6
6 What are plaintiff Prince total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 7
7 What are plaintiff Paris total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 8
8 What are plaintiff Blanket total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 9
9. Was Michael Jackson negligent in matters related to his death?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 10. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
10. Was Michael Jackson's negligence a substantial factor in the cause of his death?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 11. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
11. What percentage of fault for Michael Jackson's death is attributable to
Michael Jackson __________
AEG Live ________________
Katherine Jackson / Plaintiff's proposed verdict form
1. Was Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 2. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
2. Did defendants know or should have known that Conrad Murray was unfit or incompetent and that this unfitness or incompetence caused a particular risk to Michael Jackson?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 3. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
3. Did Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson and the Jackson plaintiffs?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 4. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
4. Was defendants negligence in hiring supervising and retaining Murray a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson and Jackson plaintiffs harm?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 5. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
5. What are plaintiff KJ total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 6
6 What are plaintiff Prince total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 7
7 What are plaintiff Paris total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 8
8 What are plaintiff Blanket total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
Answer question 9
9. Was Michael Jackson negligent in matters related to his death?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 10. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
10. Was Michael Jackson's negligence a substantial factor in the cause of his death?
Yes / No
If you answered Yes then answer question 11. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
11. What percentage of fault for Michael Jackson's death is attributable to
Michael Jackson __________
AEG Live ________________
LastTear
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I'm kinda stuck at number one. Firstly you have to establish who hired him. If AEG hired if him at the request of Michael for his general medical needs, as stated in the draft contract - then no. Murray would have been fit and competent to carry out general needs. However, administering propofol in a home setting would (to me) not be general medical needs, so if Michael hired him to administer propofol or if AEG knew the manner of the treatment, then the answer is yes.
KOPV
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what I believe:
Michael went to AEG said he wants Murray to be his DR. knowing he would be willing to give him propofol and get him to sleep.. AEG had no idea what was going on at home (aside from the fact Conrad would stay the night with Michael)..
Now this is where I see 2 different things could have happened:
1. AEG hired Conrad for the roll requested by michael
2. AEG planned to hire Conrad, told him they will be signing papers for it once London happens. So Conrad started the job in beliefe he would get paid by AEG "soon".
I do not believe for one moment Michael hired Conrad, that does not make sence to me. If Michael hired him, there would be no need to discuss detailes with AEG, Kenny, or anyone else. They did not need to know (which they admitted they did) any envolvement with monitoring Michael through the night.. They have said publically conversations of what Michael said about WHY he wants a dr with him.. That would be his private business (If Michael hired) that AEG would have no idea about.
The above statement is excluding any possible theory that I may believe about plotting against Michael.. We can't really bring that in at this point because the case is not built that way.
Michael went to AEG said he wants Murray to be his DR. knowing he would be willing to give him propofol and get him to sleep.. AEG had no idea what was going on at home (aside from the fact Conrad would stay the night with Michael)..
Now this is where I see 2 different things could have happened:
1. AEG hired Conrad for the roll requested by michael
2. AEG planned to hire Conrad, told him they will be signing papers for it once London happens. So Conrad started the job in beliefe he would get paid by AEG "soon".
I do not believe for one moment Michael hired Conrad, that does not make sence to me. If Michael hired him, there would be no need to discuss detailes with AEG, Kenny, or anyone else. They did not need to know (which they admitted they did) any envolvement with monitoring Michael through the night.. They have said publically conversations of what Michael said about WHY he wants a dr with him.. That would be his private business (If Michael hired) that AEG would have no idea about.
The above statement is excluding any possible theory that I may believe about plotting against Michael.. We can't really bring that in at this point because the case is not built that way.
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