Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

But the fact is that he did a great job on Xscape, so if he'll be asked to do some work on this release, I
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i would say thats an opinion not a fact just like the person you replied to whos opinion was that timberland did a bad job. everyones opinion
is just that and everyone has a right to it and shouldnt be downplayed because you dont agree with it

That is not true. Yes, I stated my opinion - that is true. But the person I replied to didn't say "Timbaland did a bad job", he said "Timbaland should never work on Michael's music again, PERIOD.". And that sounded pretty harsh to me and uncalled for, considering how good reviews Timbaland's work received from both critics and fans and considering how positively the world reacted to Love Never Felt So Good - his work, not McClain's.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

i guess they think its trying to make it hip to the kids. when all it does is show how great the originals are and how rubbish the so called talent of today is.

Yeah, I see what they may be trying to do (this is all hearsay) but it's amazingly pointless. Ihave never heard of this being done with any other artist (i'm sure someone will correct me).

I'd rather have a bonus CD of covers by contempory arists or a separate CD with proceeds going to Great Ormand Street. I can imagine Pharrell doing DSTYGE or Paloma Faith doing WDAN etc...

 

[Slave To The Rhythm]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I really hope that there will be some remixes. Maybe one cd with the original ones and Demos and a second with remixes. The originals are perfect no question. But the example of Love Never Felt So Good showed perfeclty that his old songs with some new beats can work!
maybe bring another Artist like pharell in the project and create a duet and we could have another hit
just my opinion

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Why are people asking for remixes???

Were the originals not perfect as they were? No-one, no matter how talented, is going to make DSTYGE, RWY,OTW and WDAN better than the versions already released so why make them worse?

oh no. No remixes!!! OTW is absolutely totally perfect!!! I listen to it each and every day. Don't destroy the best work ever!!!
I was only talking getting Bruno or Pharrell for unreleased demos or unfinished demos (like Bad 25) for new air play. Of course if Quincy hasn't gone completely senile, he'd be my first choice.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Don't destroy the best work ever!!!

How can you destroy something by making a remix of it? They won't be replacing the originals! Did Blood On The Dance Floor destroy HIStory or did Thriller 25 destroy Thriller? Absolutely no. If remixes are done respectfully and well all they can do is prolong the song's legacy and longevity, they can't destroy the original.

 

[SoCav]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I hope that Spike will do a documentary about every album. It seems unfair to only focus on a few albums and leave some out. It shouldn't just be Michael Jackson albums either. The Jackson's albums are incredibly underrated (Even within the fanbase) and deserve more attention. Especially Triumph and Destiny

I'm also all for Michael's albums getting the attention they deserve. However, even though I respect him as a filmmaker, I seriously doubt whether Spike Lee is the right man for the job - at least not if he works on his own. His approach to Bad 25 seems to have been more to document MJ the cultural phenomenon, rather than MJ the artist. Very little attention was given to the actual creation of the songs and the album, and the work Michael did on them. Collaborators who could have provided tons of interesting information seemed to have been asked relatively superficial questions and a lot of valuable screen time was wasted on the opinions of people who had nothing to do with the creation of the album, and thus nothing substantial to offer.

Bad 25 is probably the best documentary we have on Michael's work, but that's mainly because there is basically nothing else available that focuses on Michael's work. I found it an enjoyable watch, but when I compare it with other music/album documentaries I think it really pales in comparison, which is such a shame for an album as great as Bad. Looking at all the people and footage Spike had access to, I can't help but think it could/should have been so much better.

I hope he adjusts his approach for the OTW docu.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Timbaland did a bad job", he said "Timbaland should never work on Michael's music again, PERIOD.". And that sounded pretty harsh to
me and uncalled for,*
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well i dont think the poster thinks timberland did a good job do you lol. and if the poster thinks that its the next logical step to think they wouldnt want to see him work on mjs material again

yeah i agree tony.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

How can you destroy something by making a remix of it? They won't be replacing the originals! Did Blood On The Dance Floor destroy HIStory or did Thriller 25 destroy Thriller? Absolutely no. If remixes are done respectfully and well all they can do is prolong the song's legacy and longevity, they can't destroy the original.

I agree you still have the originals but Thriller25 remixes were disgusting and most of BOTDF remixes were terrible also (bar Scream Louder and 2 Bad Fugees mix), Hani's Earth Song mix for example took one of the most emotive and passionate pieces of music of all time and made it into a generic, euro-trash, disposable piece of shit. Please tell me the point?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Hani's Earth Song mix for example took one of the most emotive and passionate pieces of music of all time and made it into a generic, euro-trash, disposable piece of shit. Please tell me the point?
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i liked that one at the time lol "runs for cover"

 

[Jackson Rules]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Why are you all talking about a re-release of Off The Wall?
If Spike Lee is working on a documentary about it, it does mean there's a plan for a release of an anniversary album.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I agree you still have the originals but Thriller25 remixes were disgusting and most of BOTDF remixes were terrible also (bar Scream Louder and 2 Bad Fugees mix), Hani's Earth Song mix for example took one of the most emotive and passionate pieces of music of all time and made it into a generic, euro-trash, disposable piece of shit. Please tell me the point?

Yet both of them were approved by MJ himself. He even worked on Thriller 25 remixes.

The point was to promote the record and to reach to more diverse and broad audience. Those remixes (BOTDF) were made for clubs, not for radio. And a lot of those songs became hits in those clubs, especially in Europe.

Thriller 25 remixes were made to reach, again, more diverse and broad audience, this time younger generations. And again it worked. The album was success, selling more than 3 MIL copies.

Remixes are not always necessarily artistic masterpieces, like the originals. They are often promotional tool. And MJ knew that.

 

[Bayroot]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

It's not worth the risk. Thriller25? What's the point?

You don't celebrate the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel by getting Rolf Harris to recreate them.

I agree. I never listen to the albums when I but the anniversary sets anyway because I've already got all the songs.

All I want is the original untouched album (or even no album at all is fine) and loads of extras surrounding the making of/ events around that time.

 

[Tony R]

Yet both of them were approved by MJ himself. He even worked on Thriller 25 remixes.

The point was to promote the record and to reach to more diverse and broad audience. Those remixes (BOTDF) were made for clubs, not for radio. And a lot of those songs became hits in those clubs, especially in Europe.

Thriller 25 remixes were made to reach, again, more diverse and broad audience, this time younger generations. And again it worked. The album was success, selling more than 3 MIL copies.

Remixes are not always necessarily artistic masterpieces, like the originals. They are often promotional tool. And MJ knew that.

I'm not looking it at in the context of $ or £, I'm looking at it musically, and musically 95% of MJ remixes are crap.

Very few exceptions (TDCAU, Who Is It, Scream Louder & 2 Bad as mentioned)and none are better than the original.

Remixes are good for B sides only.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I really hope that there will be some remixes. Maybe one cd with the original ones and Demos and a second with remixes. The originals are perfect no question. But the example of Love Never Felt So Good showed perfeclty that his old songs with some new beats can work!
maybe bring another Artist like pharell in the project and create a duet and we could have another hit
just my opinion

Difference is that Love Never Felt So Good was an unfinished demo.

But I see no point in remaking the masterpieces of OTW. Probably it will happen because it seems to be something that Sony is inclined to do re MJ but I don't think it ever worked. Again, I'm not talking about Xscape - that's a different matter because those were unfinished, formerly unreleased songs. But the remaking of MJ's classics never really worked. The Thriller 25 remixes sounded bad even back then and by now they are awful IMO. People still listen to the originals, both the original songs and the Thriller album still charts regularly but no one ever listens to Billie Jean 2008 or Beat It 2008 any more. Same with the remixes on Bad 25.

Whether they are required from a commercial POV is also questionable. Thriller 25 did well, but when you look at it: the album itself sold well, but the 2008 remixes as singles did not. So can we really claim that Thriller 25 did well because of the remixes. I don't think so. And I also doubt the remixes did much to Bad 25 sales.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

BOTDF mixes weren't exactly approved by Michael, he had on his contract to do a remix album but Sony told him kids love remixes, actually he stated in a Black & White magazine he knew kids didn't love remixes and he didn't like/hated them in fact. BOTDF would have been brilliant as an EP, it didn't need those mixes whatsoever, neither Thriller 25.

 

[dmehta]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Triumph Tour needs to be released! i hope they will also include unreleased song's as well, plus a re-issue of the Live Vinyl!!!

This video proves that there is a full-length, high quality Jackson's Triumph Tour concert on tape/film somewhere. MJ used a snippet of it in the documentary this was on back in 2003, or whenever it was.

I would absolutely love to see a full-length Triumph tour gig.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

There's no remix on Thriller 25 or BOTDF I would listen to for more than a minute. But then I'm not a kid dancing in a European club.

I know Spike was chosen for Bad doc since he is a film director and Bad is a visual album.
I would think for OTW he would need to talk to the guys working behind the scenes more bc there may not be much film.
But there are great interviews like the Sylvia Chase one and film of the AMA awards that would be wonderful to incorporate.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

How can you destroy something by making a remix of it? They won't be replacing the originals! Did Blood On The Dance Floor destroy HIStory or did Thriller 25 destroy Thriller? Absolutely no. If remixes are done respectfully and well all they can do is prolong the song's legacy and longevity, they can't destroy the original.

I don't think any remix has ever prolonged an MJ song's longevity (see what I said about people still listening to the original Thriller songs but not listening to the 2008 remixes). They can put remixes on the album (and they probably will) but it will only give me a job of skipping a lot. Just like I skip the remixes of BOTDF, Thriller 25 and Bad 25 all the time.

I'd be happier if they used the room on the CD for more exciting things: demos, alternative takes, unreleased material.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I don't think any remix has ever prolonged an MJ song's longevity (see what I said about people still listening to the original Thriller songs but not listening to the 2008 remixes). They can put remixes on the album (and they probably will) but it will only give me a job of skipping a lot. Just like I skip the remixes of BOTDF, Thriller 25 and Bad 25 all the time.

I'd be happier if they used the room on the CD for more exciting things: demos, alternative takes, unreleased material.

Exactamundo. That's what special editions are for. For the fans and MJ nerds. We don't need commercial based ones, it's not as if Billion Seller Jackson needs his sales increasing.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

BOTDF mixes weren't exactly approved by Michael

Yes, they were. If they weren't they would not be released. He didn't like the idea that someone else is remixing his work, but he still had to approve them for release. He wouldn't just put anything on his album.

Also he liked Wyclef Jean remix very much, that's why he chose him to also do BOTDF single remixes and he worked again with him before Invincible came out according to Joe Vogel.

 

[HIStory]

Yet both of them were approved by MJ himself. He even worked on Thriller 25 remixes.

From the bodyguards' book:

I was also getting a lot of questions about the Thriller 25 album. The anniversary of the actual release date had come and gone back at the end of November. All sorts of stuff had been planned, TV specials, appearances. None of it had happened because he wasn’t cool with it. As far as he was concerned, that album was perfect. You don’t go back and add hip-hop beats to Thriller. It’s a classic, and you don’t touch it. But they told him he had to.

Javon: Sony had told him to get in the studio with some of these younger artists and do these remixes to make himself new and hip again. But he didn’t do it with enthusiasm. You could tell that. That’s why it was so down to the last minute with those sessions at the Palms. He kept putting it off and putting it off, and the remixes kept taking longer and longer to finish.

And in case you question the credibility of the quote MJ expressed similar sentiment about the BOTDF remixes in an interview with fans back in the 90s.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I'd be happier if they used the room on the CD for more exciting things: demos, alternative takes, unreleased material.

We all would.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

From the bodyguards' book:



And in case you question the credibility of the quote MJ expressed similar sentiment about the BOTDF remixes in an interview with fans back in the 90s.

"But they told him he had to." - They who?? He was out of the contract. He could have done whatever he wanted to do, but he decided to do Thriller 25. The fact is that he worked on the remixes (as seen on the studio footage with will.i.am on youtube) and the fact is that he approved the remixes because they were released. He might have been unhappy with the remixes, but he was perfectionist and a lot of time he wasn't happy with anything. The point is that he didn't have to do it, but he did it anyway. He could have released new album instead with any other label if Sony wanted only Thriller 25 with remixes and he was againt remixes and wanted to release it without them.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

If Michael didn't like the BOTDF remixes, how is that approval? If those were released was because he had to follow what his contract stipulated.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

If Michael didn't like the BOTDF remixes, how is that approval? If those were released was because he had to follow what his contract stipulated.

I think he said that he didn't like the idea of someone re-mixing and changing his work, that he didn't like remixes in general, not specifically BOTDF remixes. Of course that he approved them. Nothing gets released if he doesn't approve it - it's his album! He's Michael Jackson.

Also there were remixes long before BOTDF. All the 90's singles had club and house/techno remixes on them. That was a trend back then.

And if you say that he signed a contract with them where it says that he has to release a remix album, he obviously knew that that's going to happen. If he didn't want to do it he could have change that in the contract or remove it completely before he signed it. Simple.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

How do you know he had the liberties you mentioned in the last paragraph? And I never mentioned any other remixes, Michael said he didn't like the ones in BOTDF.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

How do you know he had the liberties you mentioned in the last paragraph?

He had a pen. He could not sign it. But he did sign it because the deal was good. Biggest deal in music industry back in 1991.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

"But they told him he had to." - They who?? He was out of the contract. He could have done whatever he wanted to do, but he decided to do Thriller 25. The fact is that he worked on the remixes (as seen on the studio footage with will.i.am on youtube) and the fact is that he approved the remixes because they were released. He might have been unhappy with the remixes, but he was perfectionist and a lot of time he wasn't happy with anything. The point is that he didn't have to do it, but he did it anyway. He could have released new album instead with any other label if Sony wanted only Thriller 25 with remixes and he was againt remixes and wanted to release it without them.

I don't think it's that simple. MJ was connected to Sony in many ways (catalog, Sony lending him money etc.) He might not have liked them and their ideas but a divorce probably would have been a lot more complicated. He also needed money and Thriller 25 was relatively quick money. It doesn't mean he liked the remixes. Like I said if you question the credibility of the bodyguards' account then you can see that MJ expressed similar sentiment about the BOTDF remixes.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

The payment from that deal was huge and attractive but I agree, it doesn't meant MJ approved/liked all the projects in it. He was "so eager" to do a Christmas album that he never finished it. He did something of it but never concluded it and he didn't seem rushed to do so.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I don't think it's that simple. MJ was connected to Sony in many ways (catalog, Sony lending him money etc.) He might not have liked them and their ideas but a divorce probably would have been a lot more complicated. He also needed money and Thriller 25 was relatively quick money. It doesn't mean he liked the remixes. Like I said if you question the credibility of the bodyguards' account then you can see that MJ expressed similar sentiment about the BOTDF remixes.

Yeah, that is all true. Money is an important factor. Still, like them or not, he worked on Thriller 25 remixes and approved their release. He also approved the release of BOTDF remixes. And he could have decided not to do Thriller 25 and not to sign a contract with Sony in which it says that he has to deliver an album with remixes.