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The guy who taught MJ how to Moonwalk? The best Pop Locker Ever

denisrs said:
Either way, since Jackson was into dance since the middle of 1960s and long before some of those who claim they "taught" him, the claims are rather questionable. And neither of their stories have confirmation yet. Different people insist on "teaching" and either everyone of them but one or they altogether do not tell truth about this.

As to "Moonwalk", it is rather strange to say that back in 1983 Jackson did it in "beginners" comparing to earlier poppers since the effect of such performance was in favour of Michael (I do not mean publicity/fame here, but just visual effect; of course, Jackson performs "Moonwalk" differently now, but this is another matter).

Also, we should remember that appearance of "Moonwalk" has nothing to do with anyone who claims teaching anything to Michael. The dance appeared very long time ago, maybe even before XX Century, and was firstly filmed in 1950s.

But, as I said, no filmed performance in 1950s or in 1982 (earliest from the new era; in UK) was anywhere near as visually expressive as Jackson's in 1983.
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i agree...... the failed person is always alone...but the successful person has MANY 'partners'.
 
That guy is amazing--but did he do the moonwalk in one of those clips? I don't feel like watching the whole vids right now so could anyone tell me where he does the "moonwalk" in one of those clips because I want to see it.

Thanks! :D

BabeBeMine said:
MJ was a great basic locker in the 1970's, but he didn't really start to develop great pop locking ( which is different) skills until around 1995, 1996 during the history tour when he started to bust out pop lock moves at the end of his Billie Jean performance.
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lol that's crap--he's been pop-locking at 60 mph accross the stage since the 70's!
 
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OK.. let me put a little of my 2 sences in..


Popping started in the 70's from the westcoast. Many believe dancers from Fresno California started it..


It's an evolution..

Robot.. A funk/street dance.. it's a matter of stiffining specific areas by flexing and locking joints, rocking body parts while areas are stiff to create that robotic look..

Locking - Locking formed from the robot, Also a funk/street dance bringing a more fluid look to the dance.. mixing forms of pointing, losening and tightning of muscles, while locking hips and spine.

Popping - tighting and losening of the (primarily) muscles, aswell as joints to create a 'hit'/pop.. This was derived to bring locking more demensions..

Ticking - simply a fast popping motion. same consept as Popping, but faster, and some jerking of areas.

From all that, came what we know as now hip hop dance.. mixing these concepts with some others creates what we see on videos.. see in the streets..

One of the newest forms of street dance is 'krump'. Though it got famous in the south, it began in the Los Angeles area. Krump is basically 'wilding out' in a dance form.. There is technique involved though.. much of it has to do with pulling the shoulders back, sticking out the chest, while moving the hips, then jerking them back and forth, All in different directions, angles, and styles.. Making it fluid yet jerky,..
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Michaels influence from street dance came from many places. Not just one particular person. He got into FUNK/Street dance even at age 5.. doing James brown moves..Not just feet movement. One person that was really famous for locking that MJ knew personally was 'ReRun'.. In the early 80's he even got more interested in the newer form of street dance which was airwalking, and popping.. He learned a lot from street dancers that would be on video sets.. Durring the 'Beat It' Casting call, part of audition had some people from the streets trying out.. ofcourse some popped, and ticked.. They highlight one of the 'tickers' in the video.. It continued in 'Thriller' etc.. By this time MJ adopted popping a lot in his moves. By the time "Captain EO' came out, he was fully aware of capable of keeping up with them.. He learned more from those on the set of Captain EO.. One of which was actually on 'BREAKING' and it was not Boogalo..

I would say, aside from James Brown the person (if I had to pick ONE) that influenced him most when it comes to STREET style was Jeffery Daniels.. They worked together on videos, Daniels would come over to Michaels house and they would study and practice together etc.. Michael would have daniels show him the latest dances.. MJ would do pick it up, ad his flavor to it.. etc...
 
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lol, floacist, thanks for the promotion. You’re sweet!

Let me just say this. The reason Michael is such a good dancer, while it can be attributed to several factors, from a technical standpoint, it's because his initial movement is just better then everyone else’s. His movment is simply quicker, cleaner, more fluid and more easy. While other dancer's may seem to thrash about and clumsily move to each pose, Michael stays as precise and as smooth in his interim steps as he does on the final step. Most dancers don't do that. And dancing is all about moving from one point to another. The movement in between the steps is dancing. And how well you get through that determines how good of a dancer you really are. It's what creates the over all appearance of how a dancer moves. Michael is incredible because of how he dances with such incredible speed but at the same time is able to keep each movement of his super clean, tight and accurate. He’s a total freak when it comes to it. He never falls prey to excess movement. Everything is always perfectly measured and so clean that you could take any cut out of him, in any pose while dancing, and put it up against a light or dark back drop, and it would make a perfect silhouette, in which you could see every angle of his limbs and torso perfectly. He's technically a much better dancer then any of these kids. Just watch him in “The Way You Make Me Feel”, for example. He’s a beast.

Of course, beyond the technical, what also makes Michael the best is his unbelieveable versatility. He does every form of dance as well as the other, and his ability to pick steps up quicker then anyone, based off of their rhythm alone. It shows he has a better natural understanding of dance then just about anybody.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
lol, floacist, thanks for the promotion. You’re sweet!

Let me just say this. The reason Michael is such a good dancer, while it can be attributed to several factors, from a technical standpoint, it's because his initial movement is just better then everyone else’s. His movment is simply quicker, cleaner, more fluid and more easy. While other dancer's may seem to thrash about and clumsily move to each pose, Michael stays as precise and as smooth in his interim steps as he does on the final step. Most dancers don't do that. And dancing is all about moving from one point to another. The movement in between the steps is dancing. And how well you get through that determines how good of a dancer you really are. It's what creates the over all appearance of how a dancer moves. Michael is incredible because of how he dances with such incredible speed but at the same time is able to keep each movement of his super clean, tight and accurate. He’s a total freak when it comes to it. He never falls prey to excess movement. Everything is always perfectly measured and so clean that you could take any cut out of him, in any pose while dancing, and put it up against a light or dark back drop, and it would make a perfect silhouette, in which you could see every angle of his limbs and torso perfectly. He's technically a much better dancer then any of these kids. Just watch him in “The Way You Make Me Feel”, for example. He’s a beast.

Of course, beyond the technical, what also makes Michael the best is his unbelieveable versatility. He does every form of dance as well as the other, and his ability to pick steps up quicker then anyone, based off of their rhythm alone. It shows he has a better natural understanding of dance then just about anybody.
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I still have it in my favorites :lol::)

vncwilliam said:
i still beg to differ. in the later years he was not doing stuff that he did in earlier years. for instance i didn't know he could tap dance..and all that is from his earlier years. as far as what you see as perfect, or ingenius...that's for the eye of the beholder. i can't ever see a time when MJ hadn't already perfected a dance move.
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I agree completely with the exception of the moonwalk. Watch him do it in Victory, or Motown 25. His technique is different and impractical; his back and is stiff and so is his neck and his arms don't seem to move either. Notice somewhere between than and the Bad tour, his back loosens up and he moves his neck back and forth look ET :)lol:) and his arms aren't just stuck by his sides (not that they're moving either). This gives him a better sense of direction and it looks a lot better to.
 
Michael may not be the best 'popper' the best 'locker' the best 'tapper' the best at any ONE particular style.. But what makes Michael truely the best is that he can do the basics of majority of dance styles and combined it into ONE dance form that is flawless..
 
I still have it in my favorites :lol::smile:
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Thank you, gosh, I'm flattered, lol.

Anyway, the moonwalk, if you look at a lot of street dancers that do it, it looks more like what Michael did on Motown 25. It isn't as smooth as Michael evenutally made it. You're supposed to, originally, put your hands in your pockets, or push forward with your hands, to make it look like your backing off of a wall, lol. Either way, Michael's better at it then anyone anyway, lol.

Michael's the best because of what I said, he just moves better then everyone. He has perfect lines, perfect extension, you notice he never leaves anything hanging or in a sloppy manner, it's always pointed and strong, fully extended. He's just perfect technically speaking. So clean, fast and controled that it's mind boggoling. If you watch that clip of him locking with Marlon, watch how accurate and fast he is. It's crazy. He does it as well as anyone I've ever seen, the motion itself, and he does the robot, stiffening himself while moving as well too. Michael doesn't pop as well as some, but that's a different thing then just pure dancing. It's about specific muscle group control, not fluid motion with the limbs, upper and lower body from point a to point b, but knowing how to contract and relax your muscles individually. At pure dancing, Michael smokes everybody. But he pops well. He does a lot of popping steps better then people who concentrat solely on popping. Like the robot walk he did at the MTV VMA's in 95, he does that better then Poppin' Taco, who taught it to him, lol. And it just goes to prove, if Michael had the time to practice that type of movement as extensively as these people that do it exclusively, he would do it better period. He's just much more talented.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Obviously, he picked it up from watching it on TV or on the streets. Locking started around the late 60s, with a guy named Don Cambell. Popping started around the late 70s, with a guy named Boogaloo Sam, though some speculate that popping had been around before that in places like Oakland, California and no one can trace it back to any specific source. Michael didn't work with Boogaloo Shrimp until the 80s, nor did he work with people like Poppin' Pete or Poppin' Taco or Jeff Daniels until the 80s either. No one specifically taught Michael how to lock. He just picked it up on his own and had incorporated it in to creating a unique style of his own. He was doing the robot too in the 70s, which is closely related to popping and pre-dates it.
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Well said :punk:
 
Boogalo shrimp is a great popper but there are others too.. People are watching him now like it just came out.. You know there was.

Breakin' came out after MJ did the moonwalk. It came out in 1984. Breakin' was Michael Chambers aka. Boogalo Shrimps first movie, his claim to fame. Michael did not learn the moonwalk from him.


A few other things I want to throw in:

Breakin' & Breakin' 2.. Boogalo Shrimp said a few times that they plan to make a Breakin' 3. I'm still waiting for that.. see here.. Also a little MJ mentioning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FisPEoD6qMs

Did you know Jean Claude Van Damme is in Breakin' 1.. lol!
SPOT HIM???
http://youtube.com/watch?v=INAyUowDVac


Those who know much about locking would agree that while the popping in the movie was good.. the popping was crap. lol! they hired the poppers to do locking as well and you could tell it was not there thing.. very amature.


Side note: Remember that Ginuwine video? where he dedicated a part to Michael Chambers? well MJ aswell when you see the MJ kick and moonwalk.. if u have not seen it.

watch @: 417
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Z4SZKkf88
 
Thanks for the videos KOPV. Yeah, I watched both Breakin' films, and the locking did suck in the first. I can't remember the second too well, for some reason. But the locking wasn't all that in the first. Sloppy.

Poppin' Taco did some good popping in it though. For those who don't know, he's the guy in the barret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNe58u5ub_c

The movies though are so corny, I can't even watch them, lol.
 
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KOPV said:
Boogalo shrimp is a great popper but there are others too.. People are watching him now like it just came out.. You know there was.

Breakin' came out after MJ did the moonwalk. It came out in 1984. Breakin' was Michael Chambers aka. Boogalo Shrimps first movie, his claim to fame. Michael did not learn the moonwalk from him.


A few other things I want to throw in:

Breakin' & Breakin' 2.. Boogalo Shrimp said a few times that they plan to make a Breakin' 3. I'm still waiting for that.. see here.. Also a little MJ mentioning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FisPEoD6qMs

Did you know Jean Claude Van Damme is in Breakin' 1.. lol!
SPOT HIM???
http://youtube.com/watch?v=INAyUowDVac


Those who know much about locking would agree that while the popping in the movie was good.. the popping was crap. lol! they hired the poppers to do locking as well and you could tell it was not there thing.. very amature.


Side note: Remember that Ginuwine video? where he dedicated a part to Michael Chambers? well MJ aswell when you see the MJ kick and moonwalk.. if u have not seen it.

watch @: 417
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Z4SZKkf88
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Chambers was doing this in 1981. My uncle went to high school with him at Banning High School in Wilminton CA. He actually held back in the movie Breakin. He could do a lot more then what he showed in that movie.

MJ is a great dancer,but if it was a 1 on 1 battle with non MJ fans judging,i dont think he would beat Boogaloo shrimp in a battle and this is no knock on MJ. Some of the pop lock moves that MJ does are good,but if you are familair with pop locking, MJ's pop lock moves are average to a very good pop locker on the streets.

MJ is a great singer and great dancer for a singer,but he is not a 1 on 1 battle type dancer because he does to many of the same moves over and over.

Shrimp strength is his 1 on 1 battle skills. His weakness was he couldnt sing,so you would never see his dance skills because he had no songs to perform on national tv.

The part in Breakin where he is dancing and sliding with the broomstick is classic. Keep in mind he is doing the slide sideways on cement. Not on a slippery stage

The other clip he is doing the slide in circles at Venice Beach also on cement which is impressive.

Put him on a stage and his sidewalk sideways and in circles would be ridiculous because it's easier to do it on a stage with the right shoes. It's harder to do it on cement and it look smooth
 
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lol, Michael is a WAY better dancer then this kid. Maybe he doesn't pop as good as he does, but in terms of actual dance, he blows him out of the water, believe that. Steps don't matter, it's how well you perform them. Give this kid any one of Michael's routines and believe me, he wouldn't look half as good. Any of those jazz routines, his "Thriller" routine or "RTT". I'm not talking about all that hip hop stuff, just pure movement from step A to step B. Please, lol. Not popping or locking, but pure dancing, lines, extention, grace, speed, coordination, rhythm, etc... Michael kills this kid, I'd bet my life on it, because it's just so. He's naturally much more gifted and if you had him doing popping, locking, and gliding all the time, if that's all he practiced, like these kids do, he would crush them at it. Over all, Michael can do anything. But it's just simply in the way that he moves that makes him superior. He moves better, his fluidity, grace, speed, lines, extention, etc... Just better. You see him outdance Jeffery Daniels in the rehearsasl video of "Smooth Criminal", for example, who did the moonwalk on TV before anyone in 1981, you see him outdance all those popper and lockers, you see him outdance trained professionals. He's just got the greatest natural talent I've ever seen in a dancer, along with Fred Astaire. I'm sure Astaire wouldn't have known how to do all of this popping and locking at first, but if he'd been able to practice it to the extent these kids do, again, he would have been better at it. At least locking. Popping is something else, I don't really consider it dancing.

One on one battles judged on the variety of moves you do don't determine how good of a dancer you are, they just determine how varied your steps are. But again, steps don't matter, it's how well you execute those steps, and if you think that Boogaloo Shrimp or any of these street dancers could, for example, look like Michael did when he did Motown 25, and I'm not talking about the moonwalk, I'm talking about the actual dancing, then you're wrong. They could never move like that. It's why usually they're relagated to doing the hip hop segments but leave any other type of dancing to the pros.
 
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The only time MJ was ever in a playful 1 on 1 battle was against Usher in 2001 and to be honest those were not great pop lock moves. Those were average at best

MJ is best in choreography like Dangerous, Remember the time, Beat it, Thriller

He's not a 1 on 1 battle dancer because he does to many of the same moves over and over.

His end of the Billie Jean individual routine is very good,but Shrimp has a lot more in his arsenal then that.

What made MJ great was that he had great energy on stage, could sing off course and made great music. It was the combination
 
Naw, what makes Michael such a good dancer is his technical brilliance. He's technically a perfect dancer, perfect lines, perfect extention, incredible ease and rhythm in his step, incredible speed and no excess movment, no sloppiness. He's amazingly accurate. This is all about getting from one pose to the next. No one compares to Michael in terms of the overall appearance of how he dances.

I don't care about how many steps you can come up with on the spot. All those moves are steps that the dancer has already come up with. They aren't making them up on the spot. They're thinking to do them on the spot, but they are already steps practiced and thought out beforehand.

Again, steps don't matter, it's how well you move that matters. I've NEVER seen ANY street dancer with Michael's kind of grace, speed, accuracy, control and lines. He's a beautiful dancer.

His popping against Usher was fine. But it wasn't serious, and that kind of thing, again, doesn't matter. All that matters is how well you dance, how clean you are, how fast you are, how fluid and accurate you are, not how many steps you do. On the spot dancing, Michael moves better then anyone. In "Smooth Criminal", for example, he was told to hit certain spots and then do whatever he felt like doing. So all of that was improvised except for the parts with the backing dancers. Even though they were steps he already knew, he thought to do them on the spot, just like any street dancer in a one on one battle.

Same thing with his routine of "Billie Jean" on Motown 25. That was improvised, even though the steps were already ones he knew how to do, he did it on the spot, except for the few choreographed parts, like the beggining and moonwalk and spin and up on the toes. I would rather have quality over quantity any day. How they judge these battles doesn't determine who actually is technically a superior dancer. They determine creativity. Michael is technically a far superior dancer to any of these guys and I can prove it. Just look at the difference in their form, and you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not about how many moves you can pull in a one on one battle, it's about how you execute the moves. Just straight up dancing, not popping, Michael kills em.
 
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BabeBeMine said:
The only time MJ was ever in a playful 1 on 1 battle was against Usher in 2001 and to be honest those were not great pop lock moves. Those were average at best
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Okay. Lets NOT use that as the example :lol: Michael was clearly on an off day, he was just not into it during 2001, it was like he was there but it wasn't really Michael. Put MJ against Usher in his prime and he would murder him.

wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
lol, Michael is a WAY better dancer then this kid. Maybe he doesn't pop as good as he does, but in terms of actual dance, he blows him out of the water, believe that. Steps don't matter, it's how well you perform them. Give this kid any one of Michael's routines and believe me, he wouldn't look half as good. Any of those jazz routines, his "Thriller" routine or "RTT". I'm not talking about all that hip hop stuff, just pure movement from step A to step B. Please, lol. Not popping or locking, but pure dancing, lines, extention, grace, speed, coordination, rhythm, etc... Michael kills this kid, I'd bet my life on it, because it's just so. He's naturally much more gifted and if you had him doing popping, locking, and gliding all the time, if that's all he practiced, like these kids do, he would crush them at it. Over all, Michael can do anything. But it's just simply in the way that he moves that makes him superior. He moves better, his fluidity, grace, speed, lines, extention, etc... Just better. You see him outdance Jeffery Daniels in the rehearsasl video of "Smooth Criminal", for example, who did the moonwalk on TV before anyone in 1981, you see him outdance all those popper and lockers, you see him outdance trained professionals. He's just got the greatest natural talent I've ever seen in a dancer, along with Fred Astaire. I'm sure Astaire wouldn't have known how to do all of this popping and locking at first, but if he'd been able to practice it to the extent these kids do, again, he would have been better at it. At least locking. Popping is something else, I don't really consider it dancing.

One on one battles judged on the variety of moves you do don't determine how good of a dancer you are, they just determine how varied your steps are. But again, steps don't matter, it's how well you execute those steps, and if you think that Boogaloo Shrimp or any of these street dancers could, for example, look like Michael did when he did Motown 25, and I'm not talking about the moonwalk, I'm talking about the actual dancing, then you're wrong. They could never move like that. It's why usually they're relagated to doing the hip hop segments but leave any other type of dancing to the pros.
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I wish we had the full footage of that. I've only seen a very small clip. I agree with everything you say by the way. Its funny, I was watching the video of him doing the moonwalk for the first time and he looked like an amateur. How does one learn something from their teacher and do it BETTER? Only Mike :lol::wub:
 
How does one learn something from their teacher and do it BETTER?
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When one is more talented! :lol: He does that robot walk better then Poppin' Taco too, who taught it to him, and many people think Poppin' Taco is the best popper around, so, lol.

It's just the truth though. I wish we had the full footage of that rehearsal too. That would be so cool to see. You really only need to see a few seconds of footage to see the difference though. I have a tendancy to really anaylize things to death, lol, but I wrote down exactly what differences you can see between the two in that clip, and though it's over the top attention to detail, that's how I get, it's all very real, and it is the subtle things which ultimately make the difference between good dancers and great dancers. Here's what I wrote:

In that 7 second clip I posted (of the "Smooth Criminal rehearsal), I know it’s ridiculously short, but even in that 7 seconds, you can see really distinct differences in the dancing between Michael and Jeffery. I always point this out about Michael and I'll do it again, but everything he does is thoughtfully connected. It isn't something he's aware of I mean, it’s just something that happens, each pose is connected by a series of smaller steps which lead to each final position. So if you watch that clip, you'll see the difference, where Daniels, for example, just reaches his right hand over to touch his left shoulder and then lifts it, Michael drops his entire right arm down causing his left shoulder to go up and then reaches up and touches it, making it all connect, which gives it that fluid motion. I know that's like OVER analytical, but you can see it really clearly, and that's just the thing that separates Michael from most other dancers, those really small, subtle things which you aren't consciously looking for but you can see none the less. You also see at the end when they cross their arms over each other after stepping back, Daniels just crosses them to hit the pose with no thought of how he's getting there, but Michael brings his arm up all the way over, giving it a symmetrical, balanced motion, making it much more tight and controlled in appearance, much straighter and extended. Or when Michael brings his hand to his head, its much more accurate and tight, and the way he bends his head down then brings it back up in sections, no excess, whereas Daniels just throws his up without real care as to how he gets there, the way they put their arms together before circling over to the other side, Michael is just much more tight and precise, again, no excess, or the way Michael places his free hand on his hip when putting his other hand to his head, again, giving him a symmetrical balance, where Daniels just lets his arm hang without purpose or direction, making it look more sloppy.

I know it sounds crazy. But that's what you see there, that's what makes Michael a better dancer. You can see a lot in a short clip. I see that in every video and performance of Michael with other dancers. This difference in actual motion, where Michael connects each pose to the other with purposeful and aimed steps whereas other dancers just swoop or jump in to a pose, not possessing the fluidity to string them together with that kind of precisian and accuracy, it looks as though they are simply thinking of the next pose and flailing about to get there, throwing their limbs in the right direction, but with no control, unaware of what goes on in between, making it more sloppy. It isn't something Michael thinks about, he just does that when he dances, he just naturally creates these connect points which gives each movement a solid, calculated, harmonious affect.
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Anyway, that's my over the top, detailed description, but again, it's in how well you move that really determines how good of a dancer you are.

And anyway, Michael beat Usher's ass in that dance off, and you know he wasn't even trying.
 
It all depends on who the judges are. Naturally if all MJ fans are the judges MJ would win if he battled Shrimp 1 on 1. If you had music fans, but not necessarily die hard fans of either who just judged on who is clowning the other and who's moves look the best,then Shimp most likely wins. Making someone look silly is part of battling 1 on 1. Getting in there face and busting out a move,that nobody has seen before. Personally i think Shrimp was better then Poppin Taco.

I just don't consider MJ a great pop locker. I love MJ's energy on stage, his music, singing ability. I thought he was a great basic locker in the 1970s with the Jacksons, but i don't consider him a great pop locker.

The Usher battle. You can make a argument Usher held back a lot. I have seen him bust out much better moves then that. But why would be try and show up MJ at his own concert. I think usher just kept it simple. He could have busted out hand stands on 1 hand and tried to embarass MJ. But he didnt
 
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Again, steps don't matter, it's how well you move, which is determind by clean, extended lines, grace, speed, accuracy, etc... You said Michael is a good dancer for a singer, but that's absurd. Michael isn't a popper and he isn't a locker, he's just a pure dancer, he just dances and does everything. He is the purest natural talent in dance I've ever seen, for someone who hasn't ever concentrated on any one specific form, or taken classes or training, or had the time to dedicate his life to dance, Michael's the most gifted I've ever seen.


One thing that seperates Michael from other's is how quickly he picks steps up, no matter in what genre. Hand stands aren’t dancing, that's acrobatics. A better idea of what Michael looks like when he improvises is when he danced against Spike, you know, the rabbit from Moonwalker, or the steps he performed in the video for "TWYMMF" when he's chasing Tatiana, or when he danced for the skeleton sequence in "Ghosts". Michael just does steps, not necessarily popping or locking. He just moves. Shrimp is a popper and a locker, but if he had to battle Michael using jazz steps, or tap steps or just general movement, he would lose and hard because he doesn't move as well. He isn't as graceful, he isn't as fast, he isn't as clean, he isn't as accurate. His lines aren't as good. If a dance judge from "Dancing with the Stars" or "So You Think You Can Dance" were to do the judging, I guarantee that Michael would win, because they wouldn't be looking for the cool, previously unseen steps or the number of steps, they would be looking at your form. Michael has better form then Shrimp hands down, in terms of classic standards, he just has better form. And he's more versatile, he is able to adapt to any style of movement or genre of dance. I've never seen Shrimp do anything other then pop or lock. If he had to do the choreography from "Bad", or "TWYMMF", for example, he wouldn't look good at all.

And again, the thing with Usher, Michael is a better dancer then Usher, and you must see why. Usher is slow, he doesn't have any speed, and that kills any chance of being a great dancer. He doesn't even compare to Michael. Whether he's got a greater arsenal of steps doesn't matter, because he doesn't move as well. Not as accurate, not as fast, not as coordinated, not as fluid. Form is what matters, not steps. And in the definition of what dance is, in my mind, just basic motor movement of the limbs and torso from point A to point B, only a few dancers in history compare to Michael, and it isn't any street dancer.

And if we're talking about locking, just watch that clip I posted earlier in the thread of Michael and Dom Deluise. He moves faster and with more accuracy then Boogaloo Shrimp did in those clips you posted of him locking.
 
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look..it really takes a lot of energy for me to look at these other dancers you want me to look at...and i don't feel like it. Michael is the best. and the best evidence is that people are always looking for people to add to the credit for his accolades, more than any other entertainer. all these people study their various classes or street stuff or whatever..MJ is just....great...blesssed. Wonderful and excellent and falls into NO category.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Again, steps don't matter, it's how well you move, which is determind by clean, extended lines, grace, speed, accuracy, etc... You said Michael is a good dancer for a singer, but that's absurd. Michael isn't a popper and he isn't a locker, he's just a pure dancer, he just dances and does everything. He is the purest natural talent in dance I've ever seen, for someone who hasn't ever concentrated on any one specific form, or taken classes or training, or had the time to dedicate his life to dance, Michael's the most gifted I've ever seen.


One thing that seperates Michael from other's is how quickly he picks steps up, no matter in what genre. Hand stands aren’t dancing, that's acrobatics. A better idea of what Michael looks like when he improvises is when he danced against Spike, you know, the rabbit from Moonwalker, or the steps he performed in the video for "TWYMMF" when he's chasing Tatiana, or when he danced for the skeleton sequence in "Ghosts". Michael just does steps, not necessarily popping or locking. He just moves. Shrimp is a popper and a locker, but if he had to battle Michael using jazz steps, or tap steps or just general movement, he would lose and hard because he doesn't move as well. He isn't as graceful, he isn't as fast, he isn't as clean, he isn't as accurate. His lines aren't as good. If a dance judge from "Dancing with the Stars" or "So You Think You Can Dance" were to do the judging, I guarantee that Michael would win, because they wouldn't be looking for the cool, previously unseen steps or the number of steps, they would be looking at your form. Michael has better form then Shrimp hands down, in terms of classic standards, he just has better form. And he's more versatile, he is able to adapt to any style of movement or genre of dance. I've never seen Shrimp do anything other then pop or lock. If he had to do the choreography from "Bad", or "TWYMMF", for example, he wouldn't look good at all.

And again, the thing with Usher, Michael is a better dancer then Usher, and you must see why. Usher is slow, he doesn't have any speed, and that kills any chance of being a great dancer. He doesn't even compare to Michael. Whether he's got a greater arsenal of steps doesn't matter, because he doesn't move as well. Not as accurate, not as fast, not as coordinated, not as fluid. Form is what matters, not steps. And in the definition of what dance is, in my mind, just basic motor movement of the limbs and torso from point A to point B, only a few dancers in history compare to Michael, and it isn't any street dancer.

And if we're talking about locking, just watch that clip I posted earlier in the thread of Michael and Dom Deluise. He moves faster and with more accuracy then Boogaloo Shrimp did in those clips you posted of him locking.
Click to expand...

Show these two clips to fans that are not die hard fans and see there opinion. I have been a die hard MJ fan for 20 years and i think he's the greatest entertainer of all time, but he is not a battle dancer. This is my point . I dont think MJ can top that 1st clip

http://youtube.com/watch?v=faeH-EY0aI8


http://youtube.com/watch?v=n_oh9lq4IMw


There are plenty of other clips. Shrimp is a lot more athletic. Remember he was a great breakdancer also,so if its a 1 on 1 battle you can add that to your performance. Just like MJ would be able to add classical steps if they went 1 on 1. It all depends on who the judges are.
 
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Atheleticism doesn't equate to being a good dancer though. There are gymnists who can do things Shrimp could only dream of doing, but they can't dance well. That's an entirely different kind of coordination.

Michael can top the first clip and he has in terms of just pure superior movement, I'm talking about grace and lines and seamless connection of steps. If your talking pure popping, then the first clip is great and I wouldn't say Michael can do that particular type of movement as well, but he can dance better. I'm talking pure dancing, not illusion type movement, but just purely how well you look when going from one pose to the next and in hitting those poses, just pure movement. Watch Michael in his short films and in concert and you'll see that he has exceptional speed and is able to combine that quickness with extraordinarily clean and fully extended lines and that he never gives off excess movement, he's always perfectly measured and accurate and connects his steps with a total seamlessness, as though each one is born off the other. He never hesitates or lingers, he just flows in to each step and keeps it ultra smooth. Shrimp doesn't do that.

How good of a dancer you are is based on these criteria in any given form, from jazz, to tap, to interprative, to ballroom and salsa: Clean, extended lines, fluidity, speed, grace, accuracy. In these areas, Michael is much better then Shrimp, or any other street dancer you may care to name. I'm talking about who is the technically better dancer, and that's Michael by a mile. If the battle were to be judged on the criteria I mentioned above, then Michael would win, especially if a choreographer or someone who knew a lot about dance were doing the judging. They wouldn't base it on variety of steps but on the dancers form. That's how they judge ball room competetions, for example.

My point is simply that how good of a dancer you are should always be based on the overall appearance of your movement, the way in which you move, not on the steps themselves or how varied they are. Over all, Michael simply moves better. He's technically superior for the reason's I stated.
 
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even if that guy taught MJ to pop and lock how do we know he didn't specifically learn the moonwalk, circle moonwalk, sideways walk from MJ? If not personally maybe he saw him do it. Plus I think this guy was just another guy MJ worked out with. Look back at Jackson 5 dancing machine performances. there are definitely some pops and locks there.
Not to mention the best pop and locker of all time died a few weeks back.
 
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