Michael_lover
Proud Member
Whatever happens is adorable..he interprets it with passion. I'm listening it at this moment. :wub:
Yes, I agree that out of all MJ albums Invincible sounds the least Michael-ish and it's my least favorite album of him too, but on the other hand it has some gems and even elements which are more impressive in the hindsight (such as his use of dubstep in 2001!!).
But I agree that Michael's best songs were always the ones he wrote and it's a shame he did not write more on Vince. On Vince every song has a big number of writers and producers and that eventually kills off the Michael-feel of them.
A fantastic song, and a highlight of the invincible album.
However, to me the album is over produced... ...I worry for the new album also. The current sound of music to me is absolutely awful- everything sounds like it was produced by either will.i.am or david Guetta. Music again has lost its originality (even some rock bands of today are using this dance style production). I long for a crack in the clouds and music to sound inspired and innovative again, but I really just hope that the new Michael album will not have this sound and truly sound like Michael would have really wanted.
Just because it sounds current, does not mean it sounds great.
The Lost Children is one of my favorite songs from Invincible. You guys might say that Invincible sounded less like "Michael" but you got to admit, his vocals were amazing in that album.
Reminds me that when MJ sang Akon's HMH--Akon said "he took it to a whole other level" and I think this is what goes on with Whatever Happens. Listening to the demo and then MJ, I hear MJ taking that song to a whole other level.
Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatableI’m thinking that maybe MJ and Teddy’s credit comes from the “Wild West” intro that isn’t present in the demo. I know MJ likes to take undue credit, but at least there’s some potential with this one.
Except of course that usually, one doesn't get a writing credit for arrangement. It one did, then Quincy would be credited on every single MJ song on OTW, Thriller and Bad, and so would Greg Phillinganes. Ringo would be credited on every single Lennon-McCartney song, the guy who played bass would be credited on Bob Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone, etc.Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatable
NInvincible has some of my favorite MJ songs: Butterflies, Whatever Happens, YRMW, Break of Dawn, Threatened, Unbreakable, etc. I actually started screaming when I first heard YRMW and Butterflies. It was Michael at his sexiest. Every radio DJ in my city fell in love with this album and R&B fans LOVED this album.Radio DJs played YRMW and Butterflies to death. They made these songs a hit; even if Sony wanted to sabotage them.# I have always thought this album was criminally underrated. This was the Michael I wanted to hear MORE of. I didn’t care if he used other songwriters or not on Invincible. This album brought in a whole new group of fans who were not listening to Michael or who had drifted away. Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
Invincible has some of my favorite MJ songs: Butterflies, Whatever Happens, YRMW, Break of Dawn, Threatened, Unbreakable, etc. I actually started screaming when I first heard YRMW and Butterflies. It was Michael at his sexiest. Every radio DJ in my city fell in love with this album and R&B fans LOVED this album.Radio DJs played YRMW and Butterflies to death. They made these songs a hit; even if Sony wanted to sabotage them.# I have always thought this album was criminally underrated. This was the Michael I wanted to hear MORE of. I didn’t care if he used other songwriters or not on Invincible. This album brought in a whole new group of fans who were not listening to Michael or who had drifted away. Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
In many cases, Greg Phillinganes was relegated to arrangement credits, when in fact he deserved to get co-writing credits (like, when he wrote the 'Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough' bridge section).Except of course that usually, one doesn't get a writing credit for arrangement. It one did, then Quincy would be credited on every single MJ song on OTW, Thriller and Bad, and so would Greg Phillinganes. Ringo would be credited on every single Lennon-McCartney song, the guy who played bass would be credited on Bob Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone, etc.
It doesn't work that way.
Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
It is not just that Sony Music were not willing to pay for more marketing after Michael Jackson wasted time and delayed the album twice or more times, and also after that he refused to tour for the album.Sony didn't sabotage the album. Sony weren't willing to pay for more marketing after MJ wasted time and delayed the album twice, Sony paying for it the whole time. Then when MJ refused to tour for the album they weren't willing to pay any more money. MJ then went on a weird anti sony campaign and tried to say they actively sabotaged the entire album.
As kreen pointed out, writing and arrangement are two entirely different things. MJ and Teddy contributed nothing to the actual song; they merely enhanced the production. In no world does that merit a co-writing credit. If it did, Quincy should be credited on every single song on MJ’s “big three,” and several others (Bruce Swedien, René Moore, John Barnes, Christopher Currell, Bill Bottrell, etc.) should be credited on latter albums.Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatable
It’s murky waters for sure but doesn’t that guitar section constitute of changes in the actual song and not just production? In the same way that Greg Philliganes thought that he deserved co writing credits for his section in DSTYGE?As kreen pointed out, writing and arrangement are two entirely different things. MJ and Teddy contributed nothing to the actual song; they merely enhanced the production. In no world does that merit a co-writing credit. If it did, Quincy should be credited on every single song on MJ’s “big three,” and several others (Bruce Swedien, René Moore, John Barnes, Christopher Currell, Bill Bottrell, etc.) should be credited on latter albums.
It's not the same thing. Greg Phillinganes came up with a new selection of chords for that bridge section which weren't part of the composition.It’s murky waters for sure but doesn’t that guitar section constitute of changes in the actual song and not just production? In the same way that Greg Philliganes thought that he deserved co writing credits for his section in DSTYGE?
well if that’s the case then that was an undeserving credit, no doubt.It's not the same thing. Greg Phillinganes came up with a new selection of chords for that bridge section which weren't part of the composition.
Michael and Teddy's intro to Whatever Happens contains the same chords which are present in the verses and they merely added a melody on top of them, the whistle. That doesn't count as songwriting.