The problems with Invincible

[KOPV]

It's pretty crazy that this topic is relevant 15 years later... Shows how hard it is for us MJ fans to accept a non MEGA success by Michael..

3 major factors..
* the feud between MJ and Sony disrupted the potential of the albums success hugely
* The cause of the feud while Michael would have to do a lot of promotion to re-gain relevancy in a positive light played a roll
* Michael (I believe) questioned himself too much which resulted in not the BEST track list from the songs made. If they took out 3 "weaker" songs and put in 3 songs that were more radio friendly it would have totally changed the albums feel and potential..

It was a great album however there were a few tracks that (while are good) are not tracks that are very radio friendly...

 

[D.S.]

I think the album is great, no question, but it's too long and samey in places. I do think the first 8 songs are perfect and they are in perfect sequence. However, this is what I would have chosen for the finished album.

1. Unbreakable
2. Heartbreaker
3. Invincible
4. Break of Dawn
5. Heaven Can Wait
6. You Rock My World
7. Butterflies
8. Speechless
9. Cry
10. Whatever Happens
11. Threatened

Same amount of songs as Bad, and it removes many of the ballads (though I do like them). 2000 Watts is too boy band and "Privacy" while awesome, is too similar in theme to songs from HIStory. People wanted MJ to move past this topic I feel at this point in his career. Maybe swap "Cry" for "Shout" to up the uptempo count if out takes are considered.

 

[Michaels Lover]

how can you say an album is "too long"? if you think it's too long, don't listen to all the songs, simple?

 

[Electro]

Speaking of unreleased material, I find it a real shame that the record label didn't let him release "We've Had Enough". I think that would've been a better way to portray the message that "Cry" was trying to deliver.

He did not finish "We've had enough". That's the only reason why it was not considered for a studio album.

 

[mj_frenzy]

He did not finish "We've had enough". That's the only reason why it was not considered for a studio album.

‘We’ve Had Enough’ was almost finished during the early recording sessions.

It was under way for the mixing process in the summer of 2000.

The mixing process was not going to take over one month.

 

[innuendo141]

The production never worked for me. Makes it sound like another persons album with Michael Jackson singing the tunes, aside from Speechless, Privacy, Unbreakable, YRMW.

 

[mj_frenzy]

The production never worked for me. Makes it sound like another persons album with Michael Jackson singing the tunes, aside from Speechless, Privacy, Unbreakable, YRMW.

Regardless of its low commercial success, the production looked like a guaranteed recipe for huge sales:

- ‘Invincible’ was reminiscent of his ‘Off The Wall’ period.

- ‘Invincible’ included the current sound of that period produced by one of the most successful producers at that time (Rodney Jerkins).

- ‘Invincible’ contained some ballads in contrast to its up-tempo, dance tracks.

But despite that, the final result, with the exception of few tracks, sounds (as you said) foreign to MJ, & I have to agree with you.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

I'm kind of shocked that people thought/think that Invincible had "too many songs". That was my first Michael Jackson album and honestly I'm glad that he gave us a lot of material to enjoy. I'm sad that it was his last studio album in life, but damn well was an amazing album.

 

[Michaels Lover]

I'm kind of shocked that people thought/think that Invincible had "too many songs". That was my first Michael Jackson album and honestly I'm glad that he gave us a lot of material to enjoy

yeah, I agree! you can never have too many MJ songs
also to those who think it's too long, you don't HAVE to listen to all the songs in one go listen to some, take a break, listen to the rest later. or listen to the songs you like the most, and don't listen to the rest. or do whatever you feel like. I've never thought of this, or any other album that way, being "too long?". I seriously don't understand it? ...it's just songs...no one is forcing you to listen to all of them, if you don't want to?

 

[MJInnocent]

2000 Watts doesn't seem to get much love on here but it's my second favourite track on the album(after Speechless),I love when MJ shouts "what" during the chorus,puts a smile on my face every time.

What's wrong with the album?I'm not sure,I just don't think some of the songs are strong enough,I have rushed out on release day to have MJ's albums in my hand once the shops have opened,I have always went home with great anticipation of what I was about to sit down and enjoy.
HIStory for example,I couldn't believe on the first listen how great the songs were and I knew I would love them even more each time I listened.
Invincible just didn't grab me the same,I sat there kind of wondering why the album was missing more of the MJ magic,don't get me wrong,it's not a bad album by any stretch of the imagination but it falls way short of HIStory,Dangerous,Bad,Thriller and Off the Wall imo.

 

[HIStoric]

2000 Watts doesn't seem to get much love on here but it's my second favourite track on the album(after Speechless),I love when MJ shouts "what" during the chorus,puts a smile on my face every time.

What's wrong with the album?I'm not sure,I just don't think some of the songs are strong enough,I have rushed out on release day to have MJ's albums in my hand once the shops have opened,I have always went home with great anticipation of what I was about to sit down and enjoy.
HIStory for example,I couldn't believe on the first listen how great the songs were and I knew I would love them even more each time I listened.
Invincible just didn't grab me the same,I sat there kind of wondering why the album was missing more of the MJ magic,don't get me wrong,it's not a bad album by any stretch of the imagination but it falls way short of HIStory,Dangerous,Bad,Thriller and Off the Wall imo.

I actually like 2000 Watts too haha. I remember one time half a decade ago, I was playing it on my phone and I was like to my friend: "Guess who this is!" and he couldn't guess. Was surprised at first when I said MJ

Honestly if MJ shortened the album to 10-12 tracks, replaced some of the songs on Invincible with those that eventually made Xscape, it'd be a far superior album imo.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Outside of those songs, I think there is a solid 12 track MJ album, but I don't think it helps that all the filler ones were sequenced together in the second half of the album, making it sound like MJ was running out of ideas.

I do not think that MJ has ever included any filler song on any of his studio album.

I mean that even the ‘Invincible’ weakest songs do not deserve at all to be called filler ones.

Filler songs are meant to complete an album’s duration, & artists resort to them given the lack of other, better ones.

MJ never had such kind of problems, on the contrary he had a hard time in choosing between equally good songs, especially if we take into account the high quality of many of his outtakes (from his entire career).

 

[innuendo141]

Invincible just didn't grab me the same,I sat there kind of wondering why the album was missing more of the MJ magic,don't get me wrong,it's not a bad album by any stretch of the imagination but it falls way short of HIStory,Dangerous,Bad,Thriller and Off the Wall imo.

This is exactly how I felt. The ONLY song that I felt had that magic was Privacy, because it was the only song that sounded like something he would have done on first listen.

Getting Invincible on the same day as I got the Bad Special Edition didn't do it any favours either I guess, when I first heard Streetwalker it was a million miles more exciting and better than anything I had heard on Invincible.

 

[Michaels Lover]

2000 Watts doesn't seem to get much love on here but it's my second favourite track on the album(after Speechless),I love when MJ shouts "what" during the chorus,puts a smile on my face every time.

I actually like 2000 Watts too haha. I remember one time half a decade ago, I was playing it on my phone and I was like to my friend: "Guess who this is!" and he couldn't guess. Was surprised at first when I said MJ

200 Watts is one of my faves from the album :yes: other songs I love the most, The Lost Children (my favorite), Unbreakable, Butterflies, Cry, Privacy, Break Of Dawn, You Are My Life, Speechless, You Rock My World unk:

 

[MJInnocent]

I actually like 2000 Watts too haha. I remember one time half a decade ago, I was playing it on my phone and I was like to my friend: "Guess who this is!" and he couldn't guess. Was surprised at first when I said MJ

Honestly if MJ shortened the album to 10-12 tracks, replaced some of the songs on Invincible with those that eventually made Xscape, it'd be a far superior album imo.

I agree and I got a mate into MJ and he said the same about playing 2000 Watts,other people heard it and never would have guessed it was Michael....Morphine is the same I think.

200 Watts is one of my faves from the album :yes: other songs I love the most, The Lost Children (my favorite), Unbreakable, Butterflies, Cry, Privacy, Break Of Dawn, You Are My Life, Speechless, You Rock My World unk:

Was there a power outage??:cheeky:

 

[Tony R]

Streetwalker better than Speechless, Unbreakable and YRMW? No way, man. You been smokin' the ganja or summet? (but then I've never particularly cared for Streetwalker).

I'm with you on that sir.

 

[Tony R]

Yeah, can't believe MJ wanted Streetwalker on Bad instead of APOM. Quincy really did have his uses at times.

Yes, I know replace possibly the best song on there with what would have been the worst.

Should have been a B side though.

 

[KOPV]

^ well I think to Michael he may have been past the song by that time.. I mean he made it for Captain EO and my guess was like, some people already heard it - something new now...

But It was a good move to keep!

 

[Tony R]

But then Agadoo would've been better than JGF.

Agadoo? That would explain the Black Lace on the album art



Hey! Hey! I'm here all week...

 

[Tony R]

Even though TWYMMF isn't in my Top 30 MJ tracks, it more than deserves it's place it's a great song and MJ never looked better than in that video.

I also love Speed Demon.

Although I agree that JGF disappoints considering the stella duo performing it, I still love the carefree style it's sung with.

Nah, I wouldn't change the tracklisting.

Same with Thriller, even though I think Say, Say, Say is better than TGIM - I wouldn't swap it. Sometimes things just work as they are.

 

[Tony R]

I know I seem to be the only person in the world who doesn't love TWYMMF, but it's the one massive MJ hit that never did anything for me. I know it was a big hit, but back then he could've released anything and it would've been a smash.

The only thing I would change about Thriller is, I think Behind The Mask was strong enough to be on it, perhaps instead of PYT.

Even though Thriller was released 3 years before I was even born, I still think I should've been consulted about the final tracklist.

PYT is awesome you daft beggar. And it's got LaToya on it, so worth it for that talent level alone.

BTM is great though (bar Shanice's squal on the last 10 seconds).

And I can't believe you weren't even born when Thriller was out. That's more than wrong.

I definitely should have been consulted about Invincible tracklist (which is what this thread is about by the way ). Basically it would have been most of Xscape plus We've Had Enough, keeping YRMW, Invincible, Unbreakable, Threatened and Whatever Happens.

 

[Tony R]

Add Speechless and Butterflies as well and we have a deal.

Definite deal.

 

[D.S.]

how can you say an album is "too long"? if you think it's too long, don't listen to all the songs, simple?

Personal preference, relax.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Was there a power outage??

:bugeyed: yikes! :lol: I always ALWAYS screw up and miss a 0 whenever I write that tittle

Personal preference, relax.

it's nothing personal, and it doesn't matter what album it is and by who. like I said earlier: no one is forcing you to listen to all of it, if you don't want to?

 

[D.S.]

:bugeyed: yikes! :lol: I always ALWAYS screw up and miss a 0 whenever I write that tittle



it's nothing personal, and it doesn't matter what album it is and by who. like I said earlier: no one is forcing you to listen to all of it, if you don't want to?

Just drop it dude, ffs.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Just drop it dude, ffs.

drop what? I just asked a question, that bothers you? and I'm not a dude

 

[D.S.]

I just don't feel like answering your question, get it? Therefore, drop it. I stated my opinion that I feel that the album is too long. Answering your question is not going to change your opinion on the subject nor will it change mine so why bother answering you? Simple?

 

[Michaels Lover]

I just don't feel like answering your question, get it? Therefore, drop it. I stated my opinion that I feel that the album is too long. Answering your question is not going to change your opinion on the subject nor will it change mine so why bother answering you? Simple?

Well, don't answer it, I don't care. The question wasn't aimed at you specifically . But there's no need to have an attitude

 

[D.S.]

^Just stop.

 

[HIStoric]

yeah, I agree! you can never have too many MJ songs
also to those who think it's too long, you don't HAVE to listen to all the songs in one go listen to some, take a break, listen to the rest later. or listen to the songs you like the most, and don't listen to the rest. or do whatever you feel like. I've never thought of this, or any other album that way, being "too long?". I seriously don't understand it? ...it's just songs...no one is forcing you to listen to all of them, if you don't want to?

Well yeah, sure, you could take a break but you really shouldn't have to. A great album is able to deliver the right amount of songs that have the right length to them, you shouldn't feel like the album is dragging on and wonder when the next song will come on. It's a delicate process for the artist to get right and Michael was generally able to balance it very well on his adult solo albums.

I've seen people go "but Dangerous is technically the same length as Invincible and no-one complains about the length of Dangerous!". It's true that Dangerous runs the same length as Invincible, but it doesn't feel dragged out like Invincible does at times. The flow and pacing on Dangerous is so much better at times and I feel the arrangement of tracks is superior, which is a factor. When it comes to Invincible, I feel like the concept of "less is more" would've worked better for Michael, and perhaps some rearranging of tracks.

Of course, as with all music, it's subjective so some people (like you) are fine with a higher quantity of songs that are longer. Evidently, many people like me, think that less would be more with Invincible.