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1971

Feels So Good






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mjscarousal said:
I like him... he has pretty good stuff
Click to expand...
Jesse never really caught on, probably because he had this Peabo Bryson style quiet storm music that was out of style as far as radio was concerned. He had 2 sisters who sang as a duo 'Trina & Tamara'.
 
Leroy Burgess interview: June 10, 2010 by Justin M. Kantor

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Question: What do Black Ivory’s “Mainline,” Rick James’s “Big Time,” Fonda Rae’s “Over Like a Fat Rat,” Phreek’s “Weekend,” and Convertion’s “Let’s Do It” all have in common?

Answer: All were graced by the vocal pipes, songwriting craft, and/or production prowess of Leroy Burgess.

The Harlem-born funk maestro got musical cues as a preteen from no less than Stevie Wonder and Thom Bell. Now, after four decades of hits under a list of names as long as a country mile, he’s staking claim to his legacy with the release of Throwback Vol. 2 (Sugar Hill 83-86) on SedSoul Records. ​


Justin Kantor: Hi Leroy, this is Justin Kantor from SoulMusic.com.

Leroy Burgess: Hi Justin, how are you?

JK: I’m good, how about yourself?

LB: I’m okay, kind of scrambling, but I’m good.

JK: Let’s start from the beginning. Tell me about your childhood, where you grew up and how you spent your days.

LB: I grew up in Harlem with my Mom, my Stepdad, and my four sisters. My brother Morgan came when I was 11 years old, and my sister Melanie when I was 13. I spent my days going to school as you might expect, and every moment I could get, I would try to get to a piano and work on music. There was a lot of music in my life, my Mom always played music and sang. She’s classically trained, and music also runs in my family.

JK: So you have a lot of people in your family who are musicians.

JB: Yes. The bug had really bit me, so I went along chasing it. While most other kids were out doing kids’ stuff, my thing was to find a piano and start banging away at it. That’s how I spent most of my childhood.

JK: Was there a particular instance of playing the piano that you remember drawing you towards it? Did you take lessons?

LB: Yes. When I was about four years old, my Mom used to have an elderly lady named Mrs. McKinney babysit me, and she had a piano in the house, so she began giving me lessons when I was four. She taught me rudiments and tolerated what I describe as my ‘banging’ on the piano, but gradually showing me little scales and melodies like “Mary Had a Little Lamb” -- teaching me chords and how to play with two hands. That was my earliest experience with piano, and part of the bug catching me.

JK: Did you consciously think to yourself in your childhood, “I want to be a professional pianist,” or what was the scope of the music? Was it something that happened naturally and you weren’t really thinking about it?

LB: I love music. My Mom said that I started singing and talking simultaneously. As much as I was learning to talk, I was learning to sing, and I was singing my answers to my mother. Also in the church, as my grandparents went around the country, building small churches. So, we had a big, religious background and I went to church every Sunday and sang in the choir and so forth. Maybe it’s as early on as four or five that I started to dream and develop the idea that I might actually be able to do this.

JK: I heard that you have some relation to Robert “Kool” Bell and some of his bandmates.

LB: Yes, Robert, Ronald and Kevin, now they’ve changed their name, but they’re my cousins, and my Mom’s second cousin is Thom Bell.

JK: Ah yes, the famous producer from Philadelphia.

LB: My Mom and her people come partially from Philadelphia and Georgia.

JK: So that’s a coincidence that they’re both Bell’s, or are they all related as well.

LB: We’re all actually related.

JK: Were they presences in your childhood that you were influenced by?

LB: Thom Bell used to come to the family picnics that we had. We have an annual family reunion picnic. In the early years, from about zero to eight or nine, he would attend and I used to follow him around and pick his brain.

JK: Was it because you had seen him play at your house, or your Mom would play his records and say, “That’s Thom Bell”?

LB: I began to hear his work on the radio, and was aware of some of the things that he was doing, his early work with Jerry Butler, the Delfonics before they were the Delfonics and stuff like that. Those things intrigued me, so I started chasing him all around the picnic grounds until my parents made me stop.

JK: What was his response to that?

LB: He used to impart many things that I didn’t know that I would retain, but I actually did. He would tell me about songwriting and singing and give me advice; and these things stayed in my head. I don’t know if you could actually call it tutelage, because it was informal. Over the years that I was exposed to him, I managed to retain a lot of the information that he imparted.

JK: What do you think was the most important thing that you got from him?

LB: The more important things happened as I began to study his work, around the age of 11 or 12. I really started looking at his work and began to analyze his arrangement style and incorporate that into my own work. That kind of happened as a result of being exposed to him and really liking his stuff.

JK: How old were you when you did your first professional gig, and what would you consider your first professional experience?

LB: My first professional experience was after the release of my first single. Before I go there, though: When Black Ivory was developing, we were a four-man group, with myself, Stuart Bascombe, Lawrence Newkirk and Vito Ramirez -- before Russell Patterson joined the group. We were being developed to enter the music business, and our producer and manager, Patrick Adams, was good friends with Gene Redd, who was Kool & The Gang’s manager and producer. This was even before I knew they were my cousins. Kool & The Gang started as an instrumental group primarily, not doing any vocals, so Patrick and Gene came up with the brilliant idea of, “Let’s use some of the shows that Kool & The Gang are doing to premier other groups.” They would bring us on and we would do two songs: “Love on a Two-Way Street” (by the Moments) and “Everybody Is A Star” (by Sly Stone). It really went over big, but all the time they were playing music behind me and premiering the group, I had no idea that they were my cousins. I didn’t learn that they were my cousins until about ’93. My mother was invited to the Bell-Akins picnic in North Jersey, and Kool and Ronald and Kevin were there, and my mother ran into their mother, and that’s how we discovered the connection.

JK: When you mentioned that Black Ivory was being groomed, were the other bandmates friends of yours that decided to start a group?

LB: I met Larry Newkirk, he’s the one that brought me into the band that would become Black Ivory, and I was about 14; this was around 1968. We were youth counselors at a summer camp in Harlem, and one day we were having lunch and the radio was playing. I think Smokey Robinson’s “Here I Go Again” came on the radio, and both Larry and I started singing along with it. Before I knew it, Larry had stopped singing and I was singing by myself. Larry was listening and a few other people came around and were listening. Larry said, “Man, you really sound nice. Would you like to come and meet my group?” So, I think the next day or that weekend, I went over to meet them and basically to audition for joining their group. We became friends immediately after that.

JK: Was it through them that you got the connection to Patrick Adams and the Today label?

LB: Exactly. This was before Patrick was with the Today label. Patrick was a romantic interest of Larry’s sister, Gail Newkirk, and Larry was aware that Patrick was a producer. I think Gail asked Patrick if he would be interested in hearing us. We set up a date for Patrick to come over and hear us; however Patrick called to say he was unable to make it. The group was already there and we were rehearsing in the background. I was singing “Can You Remember” by the Delfonics, and we were just rehearsing that. The Jackson 5 also covered that song. I was singing it in the background, singing the lead and Patrick asked, “Who is that angelic voice in the background?” and Larry said, “That’s our lead singer.” So Patrick immediately asked to speak to me, and I picked up the phone, he began asking me questions about how long I’d been singing, and then he apologized for not being able to make it, but he said he wanted to immediately see the group, so we arranged to meet with him in a few days. Patrick heard the group, and heard me and immediately we began to develop our relationship of him managing and producing us. Eventually that developed into the Kool & The Gang situation for me. We began doing demos, and ultimately one of the demos was a song called “Don’t Turn Around’, which came to the attention of Perception/Today records. So, we went to Philadelphia to produce the track, and to go and sing and create our first record. We got the deal with Today Records as a result.

JK: Were there other acts that you were familiar with, as far as the Today label, or was it more of a startup?

LB: When we got to Today, I was unfamiliar with pretty much everybody that was there. Although the Fatback Band was there, I didn’t know who they were. The Brockingtons were there, I didn’t know who they were. They had a young, fantastic organist named Lucky Peterson who was there, I didn’t know who he was; and a poet named Wanda Robinson. Again, these were all people I was unfamiliar with, but we got to know each other as time passed.

JK: What do you remember about those early recording sessions? Were those your first professional recording sessions?

LB: Yes, they were. It was my first time in an actual studio, watching the process. I was around 15 years old, so I’m soaking it up and loving it, and every time there was a session, I would try to be there whether I was involved or not, just to see and observe. This was my first actual experience in a recording studio.

JK: Does anything stand out in your mind from the time you were with Today Records, whether it was the recording, writing or touring?

LB: With Today Records, I enjoyed our relationship because they were such a young, hands-on company, and they really nurtured the artist and gave us time. They put time behind us in order to develop us. This was a time when companies were still into artist development. Between Patrick and Terry Phillips and Boo Frazier -- the executives at Today Records, they spent time grooming us and letting us come into their office to work on songs and so forth. There was a good relationship.

JK: Is that where you developed a lot of your songwriting style?

LB: Actually no, my songwriting style was developed between the ages of 11 and 15. My family and I moved out of one housing complex in Harlem to another, and in the second housing complex, there was an organization called the Cadet Corps of Central Harlem. They had a musician there by the name of Herbie Jones. He was the chief rhythm and brass arranger for the Duke Ellington Orchestra. He took a shine to me very early on, so I would say that my first formal training began with him. He taught me melodies and song development and how to play and experience. He taught me what music feels like, and the feelings and emotions that can be gleaned from different musical styles -- the major scale and minor scale and stuff like that. He took a lot of time with me, and I think we had lessons every day from about 11 to 14. If it wasn’t every day, it was nearly every day, and I learned a great deal. That was the beginning of my development as a pianist, keyboardist, musician and composer. As I learned to play, I started not only playing the songs on the radio, but also playing my own songs and creating my own material. All of those things served as influence: the music that I was hearing from Johnny Mathis, Nat “King” Cole, Stevie Wonder was also a great influence on vocals. I started to listen to everything and work out little songs of my own, so that’s kind of where that came from.



leroyBI

JK: Going from that to when you were with Black Ivory, I guess you started to learn a lot about the actual business side of it, especially being so young. What came to my mind was, after you guys had a few hits, especially with you writing, you mentioned “Don’t Turn Around”…

LB: The second single that Black Ivory released was actually the first commercial composition that I put out, a song called “You and I.” That was our second single, which did extremely well. I was very proud that it made it to be the second single, and it was co-written by myself and Stuart Bascombe. We were very proud of it, and we continued to develop the sound of our first record, “Don’t Turn Around,” together: myself, Stuart Bascombe, Russell Patterson and Patrick Adams.

JK: Did things change for you or the group when you made a transition? I know you were on another label called Kwanzaa for a little bit.

LB: We left Today records because we had done two albums with Today Records, and on the second record, the dynamic had changed. In the first album, we were very involved in the composition process and the production process; I did arranging and orchestral production and things like that. Then we started to tour, and this was 1970 or ’71. In late ’71 or ’72, we were presented with a second album, and most of the songs had been composed already without our input as composers, and that was the ‘Baby, Won’t You Change Your Mind’ album. While it was a great album, it did not really incorporate us as songwriters, which is something that we wanted to explore and stay on top of. We were unhappy about that, and since we couldn’t change it and made no headway in terms of changing that dynamic in the minds of the record company, we decided to leave. We decided not to renew our contract in 1972.

JK: It’s kind of an ironic title when you think about it, ‘Baby Can I Change Your Mind’. Was that the album with songs like “Time Is Love” and “Spinning Around” on it?

LB: Yes.

JK: Was Kwanzaa a label that Patrick had, or that you did on your own?

LB: We had changed hands as far as our management. Patrick made a deal with a gentleman named Lenny Adams, no relation, and the group’s management moved to that. When that happened, Patrick was part of the problem, because we couldn’t get into his head and get him to allow us to have the same input that we needed. Lenny had connection with some people at Warner Brothers Records who were opening a new label called Kwanzaa, so they flew us out to California and we did a deal for a single, and that single was “What Goes Around Comes Around.” Again, the deal was made on the premise that some of the top producers in Philadelphia, who at that time were Norman Harris, Ron Baker and Earl Young, were to produce the record. When we got to Philly, however, they kind of pulled the okey-doke on us and put us onto some of their writers. It turned out that Norman Harris and Baker and Young would not be involved with the process. They turned it over to Vince Montana to produce, and these other writers to oversee, so we were unhappy with that. That’s why that was the one and only record that we did for Warner Brothers/Kwanzaa. Now we’re working our way towards 1973, and Larry Adams had a connection to Buddah Records, which had Gladys Knight, Norman Connors, The Stairsteps, Melba Moore and so on. We did a deal with them to work on our third album, which is the ‘Feel It’ album. This is when we were really trying to come into our own as composers and as producers, but we were young and we didn’t really know what we were doing, to be frank and honest, we were just testing the waters. Lenny paired us up with Robert John and Michael Gately. Robert John you might remember from his record “Sad Eyes” and they wrote the song “Will We Ever Come Together” which was our next big hit. In addition, Lenny paired us up with Charles Calello, who is a famous arranger who did the “Swear To God” record for Frankie Valli and also did “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You.” He arranged that album. So we did the lion’s share of the composition of that album and we had a hand in the rhythm arrangement, and that’s where I really came into my own as a rhythm arranger. We used the Black Ivory Band in order to realize the record, the rhythm part of the records. In our live band, we used those musicians in order to realize those records. Most noteworthy of that was my relationship with James Calloway. He started playing bass in the group in 1972, and we became really fast friends and started doing teamwork as far as arranging for Black Ivory, etc. So, we became fast friends and continued that friendship after I left the group in 1977.

JK: When you left the group, did you have a definite plan of what you were going to focus on, or were you like, “I can’t take it anymore. I need to get into a different situation?”

LB: To be more specific about that, I was unhappy with Black Ivory. Two things: Black Ivory was being stereotyped and typecast as a slow jam group, and this was at a time when music was evolving into faster forms, like Disco. I was of a mind that we really need to work in these new genres to keep ourselves current; however they did not share that opinion with me, and they were of a mindset to not rock the boat.

JK: Do you mean the record company or the other members of the group?

LB: The other members of the group. We had to part company.

JK: You left in the middle of recording the second album for Buddah, right?

LB: No, by then we were up to the fourth album.

JK: The one with “Mainline” is what I was referring to.

LB: That was the fifth album. The fourth album was just entitled ‘Black Ivory’, and that’s when the dynamics really changed between the group and I, and I found myself very unhappy with the way it was going. I tried to talk with them about it for many years, but they weren’t really hearing me.

JK: When “Mainline” was included, was that with your blessing?

LB: We’ll get to “Mainline” in a minute. In ’77, the Buddah contract was up for renewal, and during ’76, I explained to Black Ivory that I was extremely unhappy and if things weren’t going to change, I didn’t know if I could renew the contract with them. Things didn’t change, and so I didn’t renew. I left the group in 1977. In 1978, I went back to Patrick Adams, and Patrick and I had a kinship in composition and arranging, so James and I had been continuing to compose songs, and we had a song called “Weekend.” We brought that song to Patrick when he was in the middle of producing an album for Atlantic Records for Phreek, and he said, “I would love to use your song for this album.” We started producing that, and the song came out and was an amazing hit from the album and did very well. That started the ball rolling with the Leroy Burgess composition/production thing. As ’78 and ’79 continued to progress, Black Ivory -- Stuart and Russell were the remaining members -- were producing their new album for Buddah Records; however they did not have anything that Buddah would consider a hit, so they contacted me. Actually, Lenny Adams contacted me, asking me if I had any songs that I thought I’d like to submit for the album, and I had two: a song called “Hustlin” and a song called “Mainline.” In 1978, I actually returned to the group temporarily, to co-produce, arrange and sing with the group on this song called “Mainline” and “Hustlin.” Subsequently the songs were released, and “Mainline” became the biggest song that Black Ivory ever had.

JK: Did that change your feelings about the group?

LB: We were always friends, and we parted amicably, but there was the underlying thing of how unhappy I was and feeling that I had to leave them because we couldn’t come to terms. Once I started out on my own, beginning with Patrick Adams’ Phreek, and then going on to do work with the Peter Jacques Band, and then with Jocelyn Brown, these records started coming out and doing very well nationally and in international markets. Then we did Convertion, “Let’s Do It,” and that was an enormous hit. After that, Patrick ran into Rick James, and we had a song called “Big Time”-- so I had already built up this momentum on my own, and there was no reason to return to Black Ivory. I had it within me to develop and create exactly the sound that I needed to create to keep me aesthetically happy.

JK: You had a unique path that you took with the labels that you worked with, from Salsoul to Vanguard to Sam and so on. Did you consciously set out to approach each label with a different project, or did they come to you?

LB: Basically, they would come to me through various connections, Greg Carmichael, Patrick Adams, and the type of songs I was composing. We were trying to make great songs, and people were now in touch with my compositional prowess, and more calls were coming in for compositions from our camp. Secondly, I like dealing with independent labels because they tend to give you more attention. With a major label, you have to make a ton of money before they’ll give you the time of day. With an independent label, their lifeblood is the support of their artists and producers, and because I felt supported, I would go to the smaller labels like Salsoul. I did a lot of work with Salsoul, and with Vanguard, simply because I felt the love from them. I felt the hands-on involvement and I felt I was treated fairly.

JK: Would you consider Panoramic an independent label? I was just thinking about “Hooked On Your Love”.

LB: “Hooked On Your Love” came out on NIA Records initially, when NIA Records was just starting out, and then The Aleems made a deal with Panoramic Records and put that song out. After it had been released, Panoramic took it over, and that was just one of the deals that happened in the course of that happening, and I took it as such.

JK: The first record that you did with The Aleems, was that “Movin To The Beat”?

LB: The Corky Hodges record. No, the first one that they came to me for was “Hooked on Your Love.” “Hooked On Your Love” and “Summertime,” that was the project. When I worked on “Hooked on Your Love” and “Summertime”, they liked my arrangement and composition work so much that they put me on other projects, such as the Corky Hodges project. Whenever they needed me I would step in and help out.

JK: Was that you singing on the “Corky Hodges” record?

LB: Corky lived across the street from me, and the Aleems lived upstairs in the building I lived in, so from the time I did the work on “Hooked On Your Love”, Corky and I became fast friends and he started to emulate my style a bit.

JK: The ones that you sang on with the Aleems are?

LB: “Hooked On Your Love”, “High Frequency”, “Get Down Friday Night” was the third, and then came “Release Yourself”, “Get Loose” right after that and then “Confusion.”

JK: In between those, you did the “Heartbreaker” record under your own name. Was that something that you consciously decided, to pursue a project under your own name? I remember you said if the labels didn’t seem that committed to a project that you might not put your name to a project.

LB: The Convertion record got my new group to the attention of the public, but then Sam Records, and Sam White specifically went behind our back and copyrighted the name so that we couldn’t use it anymore. When we went to Sam to talk about it to try to make a deal with Sam, the deal he brought to the table was ridiculous. We went with Greg Carmichael to Salsoul, and Salsoul said, “Yes, we will commission an album. We love the sound, but you can’t use the name Convertion,” so at that point, we didn’t really care. It doesn’t matter as long as the group is the same. Salsoul came up with the name Logg, and Logg is the same group as Convertion, all the same members. That album solidified my relationship with Salsoul Records. Once I had my relationship there, Logg came out and was successful, so Salsoul approached me with a different project, under my own name. I was tired of the aliases, so I said, “Let’s do it.” We did a four-song project, and “Heartbreaker” was one of the songs.

JK: If I’m correct, Conversion was spelled differently on Vanguard.

LB: Yes.

JK: Because of the legal troubles with that name?

LB: The actual word Conversion is spelled C-o-n-v-e-r-s-i-o-n, but we spelled it C-o-n-v-e-r-t-i-o-n. I’m not sure how Vanguard worked it out with Sam to use that name.

JK: I have the 45 of it, and I thought they spelled it with an “S” on there.

LB: I have both records on my wall, I’m actually looking at them now, and the Sam Record is C-o-n-v-e-r-t-i-o-n, as is the Vanguard record. The companies get to talking and they throw some money under the table and boom! You got it.

JK: Was it interesting for you when Aleem got signed to Atlantic and started making music videos, and you started to explore a different sound, not strictly the boogie sound?

LB: ‘Casually Formal’ was the first Aleem album on Atlantic, which was my first return back to Atlantic, because prior to that, I had done the Phreek album, and the ‘Mister Flute’ album by Art Webb, and the Herbie Mann album, so I had a relationship with Atlantic Records already. With the Aleems, it was the record “Confusion” that came to the attention of Atlantic records and they really wanted to put stuff on that. At the time, our manager was the late Dick Scott, and he worked out the deal to go from NIA records to Atlantic and Atlantic did an album deal behind it. That album became ‘Casually Formal’.

JK: You did two albums with them, correct?

LB: Yes, ‘Casually Formal’ and ‘Shock’.

JK: Simultaneously, you were doing some songwriting for other artists, like Bobbi Humphrey, Inner Life.

LB: Fonda Rae did “Over Like a Fat Rat”.

JK: You worked with Kashif, also.

LB: Again, that was something that we worked with The Aleems on. The Kashif record, “Coming Home.”

JK: Were there any of those artists that you worked with at that time that you particularly enjoyed, or you feel you gained a lot out of?

LB: The record “No Way” that Bobbi Humphrey did really solidified my relationship with my friend and mentor, Stevie Wonder. I told you I was gonna get back to that, right? In ‘71/’72, Stevie Wonder had released his ‘Music of My Mind’ album and his ‘Talking Book’ album and he played the Apollo Theatre, and this is when you played the Apollo for a week. He arranged for us to come, and we came to see him because he really liked us, but I took a shine to Stevie and started following him around. He invited me to come back whenever I liked, so I came every single day. Stevie started teaching me piano; he gave me my first perfect pitch lessons; he taught me how to play without looking at the piano. I asked him how he does that, and he said, “I’m not really sure, I just try to feel my way around with the keys.” He helped me develop that.

JK: An enviable opportunity.

LB: My two teachers were Herbie Jones from the Duke Ellington orchestra and Stevie Wonder. Those are my two teachers.

JK: Two of the best you can have.

LB: The third would be Thom Bell.

JK: You ventured into Gospel music when you recorded something with Vanessa Bell Armstrong.

LB: That evolved specifically through my friend, Vincent Henry, who is a sax player and a longtime friend and associate, and he had been playing with my group on various dates, and he also played solo sax on a number of projects. He had a project with Vanessa Bell Armstrong, and he said, “I have the perfect guy to come in and do background arrangements and sing background,” and that was me. He called me in, and I was like, “Great!” I had no idea who Vanessa Bell Armstrong was, but I have Gospel training, a Gospel background from my family, and so I went into the project with that in mind. That’s how it happened.

JK: Were there any personal circumstances that inspired you to go into Gospel Music or was it expanding your repertoire?

LB: The best way to put that is, I credit God as the entity that empowers my entire life. I always loved Gospel Music, and have an affection for inspirational compositions, from my family history, so I was always close to that. Even in my secular, non-Gospel music, I try to put inspirational messages in it, and I still try to instill that in my music today.
 
Leroy Burgess part 2

JK: We left off with the album you sang on with Vanessa Bell Armstrong.

LB: That’s my relationship with Vincent Henry, and him being one of the fantastic horn players. He was assigned as the producer and he called me, was familiar with my Gospel background. I was happy to do it because Vincent is nice. He’s one of the good ones, just a fantastic brother and an amazingly talented sax player. He was the musical director for the Broadway musical, Bring In 'Da Noise, Bring In 'Da Funk. He’s a cool brother, and like I said, he’s also a member of the group Change.

JK: Back in the heyday, or the current lineup?

LB: More in the latter part I would say. Jacques Fred Petrus wanted to make the actual group out of it, and Vincent was one of the members of the group along with Timmy Allen, Michael Campbell, James Robinson and Deborah Cooper.

JK: It was a cool lineup. I asked you were there any specific life-changing events that inspired you to go into Gospel and you said you always had that underlining message in your music.

LB: I was brought up with a large spiritual background with my family, dating past my grandparents and probably before that, so that particular torch has been passed in my family quite admirably. That always empowers me, and in this case in my musical world. When I got the chance to work on a Gospel album, I was excited, not for me to become a Gospel artist, but just stepping into that world as a musician and an artist.

JK: Recently, I spoke with Rob Hardt of the Cool Million project and I didn’t get to talk to you then, but can you tell me how that connection came about, because that relates to the new album that you’re putting out as well.

LB: It does indeed. That connection started with my manager, Helen Williams of Elite Artist Management, she came in and she began trying to build relationships. I was in the middle of production of my new album, and Rob Hardt got in touch with her, and she got in touch with me, asking if there was any new material I had that I would like to get heard. I told him about the new album coming out soon, and I sent it to him. He liked it , and said in the meantime he had this project called Cool Million, and would I like to do a song on there? Actually, he said, “I have a song that would be perfect for you.”

JK: Was this a track that he gave you?

LB: It was a musical track. It had no vocals, except for some party crowd vocals. But no lyrics. I actually composed the lyrics and melody and recorded the vocals in my home studio, brought in some people to do some background and sent it back. I decided to use the name of his project Cool Million, and I named the song “Cool To Make A Million.” I thought it was a universal concept that everybody could get into, how cool it would be to make a million dollars.

JK: Who were the singers that you brought in to work with you?

LB: The same people that worked with me on Throwback Vol. 1 and Throwback Vol. 2: Dorothy Terrell, and Pearl Gates is a co-writer and Associate Producer on the album.

JK: Is Dorothy Terrell related to Dino Terrell?

LB: No, she’s not related to Dino or Jean, Ernie Terrell or Tammi Terrell. Dorothy Terrell is one of the two females in Conversion, the second being Renee JJ Burgess, my sister. It was Renee and Dorothy who were the girls in Conversion, Logg, and Universal Robot Band -- they’re all the same group.



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JK: You mentioned that you made “Cool To Make A Million” in your home studio. How long have you had that, and how would you describe the set-up?

LB: The process?

JK: Is it a massive studio, a basement studio?

LB: It’s a home studio, it contains computers, tone generators, sound modules, it’s not massive at all. I try to keep things small in terms of my home studio. It’s not set up for the post-production and mixing, so I don’t have all of those toys in the room. It has what I need to compose, arrange and to actually begin the production on any level.

JK: You do the pre-production in the studio?

LB: Pre-production and mainstream production, as far as planning the entire record. I take it to another place to get it mixed and another place to get it mastered.

JK: Did you do Throwback Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 in your studio?

LB: Both Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 were done primarily in my studio. It’s called Lee B’s Tone Labs.

JK: How long have you had that going on?

LB: I’ve been building it since ‘90-something, it’s been finished since about 2002, and I’ve been working in it ever since. It’s in my home, so I work whatever hours I’d like to, and it’s real comfortable. There aren’t distractions, so I can focus and link right into the work without being sidetracked. Home studios are a lot cheaper. You invest in the upkeep and the electricity, but you’re not paying $50 or $100 an hour to use it. It’s the hourly rate and the musician costs that can add into a production and take it through the roof. These days, with record companies so frugal -- I don’t want to say cheap, but they’re certainly not doing budgets like they used to -- the advent of the home studio, both creatively and economically, is vital to the whole record process.

JK: Throwback Vol. 2 is subtitled Sugar Hill ‘83-‘86, and before that, Throwback Vol. 1 was subtitled Harlem ‘79-‘83. Can you tell me what the concept is behind the Throwback Series?

LB: Throwback the series is based on a lot of the compositions that I had done with James Calloway and Sonny Davenport and even stuff I’ve written on my own from ‘79 up to ‘86. We had songs that weren’t officially recorded or never saw the light of day on releases. One of my former managers named Jim McDermot suggested, “You’ve got all this great material, why don’t you put it into a collection and fix it up and see what we can do in regards of trying to make that move?” Throwback Vol. 1, I started in 2005 and it was finished and released in 2007. Immediately, I started working on Vol. 2. There are maybe 100 songs or something like that, that we wrote -- James, Sonny and myself or by myself. So, we wanted to explore this material. The majority were composed back then but never came out. They had that back-in -the-day feeling because that’s when they were composed. I have a friend with a studio who has all this great vintage gear. He has the original Fender Rhodes suitcases and all this stuff, and that gives me a lot of my analog sounds to tie it into the classic feel, at the same time, I used some of the new stuff, the Motif and Triton, and I use digital software in order to record and print the whole thing. Before, it would be on 24-track tape, and these days it’s on digital software.

JK: One song on Vol. 2 is “Once You Got Me Going.” I always enjoyed the recording by Debbie Blackwell on the Jump Street label in the ‘80s. Was there anything particular about that song that made you want to do it again?

LB: The Debbie Blackwell record got away from me, although it ended up being a great project. A lot of politics became involved in the completion of it when Debbie was working on it, and I was unhappy with that because it kept getting further away from the original. The record came out so different from my original concept, although you could still hear elements of what I was trying to do. We had the original demo that the record came from, and I said, “Let me take this demo and work it back up into a real record and see how it comes out,” and that’s what we ended up with on the Throwback Vol. 2 project.

JK: Does she still sing?

LB: I don’t really know whether or not she’s active or performing it now, but I imagine, maybe.

JK: It was nice to hear a male take on it.

LB: It was kind of an homage to Luther Vandross’ work, and this was during the time when he was alive and doing stuff with Change. I loved his melodic style, so I kind of adapted it for that song in the lead vocal, and that’s where that came from.

JK: Another standout for me was “Shining,” because it had a really positive glow about it. What is the background on that song?

LB: Again, that was originally written for a male. I write a lot of stuff in the Boogie style, which is slower than regular Disco and more laidback, funkier, and boppier than Disco is. When Warner Bros./RFC liked the song with Venus Dodson, of course that was in the disco era. They wanted it discoed up, so we sped it up, and did that kind of work that made it that record.

JK: It’s been a long time since I listened to Venus Dodson. I remember it, now that you mention your being involved on the song “Shining” on her album -- but I didn’t even realize it was the same song!

LB: We had to Disco it up for the Warner Brothers single. It was originally boogied up, so we kept it there [this time]. As far as the horn section, I always liked Tower of Power and Chicago, so I wanted to lock the horns in. I called in Vincent Henry. He and I developed the styling of the horns. As far as rhythm track, I wanted to go funky, and with that I got help from James Calloway.

JK: You mentioned with Rob Hardt and “Cool To Make A Million,” how it’s a universal theme that everyone can relate to. You also have a couple others on Throwback Vol. 2 about the never ending struggle or quest, with “Money Going Out.”

LB: “Money Going Out” is exactly that. No matter how poor you are, no matter what income bracket you are, no matter what you do, money is going out. You’re making money, but you’re always paying bills, and sometimes we go through tight moments where you’re borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. “Barely Breaking Even” was the first song in that feeling. I wanted to express it from that point of view, with working and living, we go through these difficult financial moments where ends aren’t quite meeting. It’s either on the line or under the line, where you’re a little bit behind.

JK: “Barely Breaking Even” was Universal Robot Band, correct?

LB: Correct. “Barely Breaking Even” was a concept from Sonny Davenport about the same thing. “That was actually the seventh song on the Logg album, but the co-producer Greg Carmichael was unhappy with Salsoul, so he slipped into the studio and spirited away the master to that song and released it on Moonglow Records without our knowledge. Salsoul just released the album with six tunes on it and left it at that. We found out about “Barely Breaking Even” being released some years later.

JK: Does that happen a lot?

LB: We work with co-producers who have relationships with companies as we do. You never really know the state of something until it bites you in the butt. It was very much like that, and we actually went to the studio to mix it and were informed that the master was missing. We found out where it went, and chasing Greg around was not fun. That stuff happens all the time.

JK: You like working with the independent labels, and both of the Throwback albums are released on indies. The first one was on Soul Brother Records, which is an outgrowth of the shop they have in the UK.

LB: Correct, and they were responsible for the two anthologies put out on me, Leroy Burgess the Voice and Leroy Burgess the Producer. I had a real good relationship with them. The only thing I really hated about it was the album cover and I wanted to change it to another cover, but they paid a lot for the painting.

JK: What about the new one? Are you happy with it?

LB: Yes, I was hands-on with the artwork, the sound design and everything, from point A to the finished product, so I’m happy with it.

JK: Is Throwback Vol. 2 strictly a digital release at this point?

LB: No, it’s a physical release, too. We just did the digital release first. The physical product has come in, it’s with SedSoul in Europe, and we’re set to release next week.

JK: With Vol. 1, it was mostly distributed overseas, and so much has changed with the growth of iTunes…

LB: And the absence of distributors of physical product. Huge companies like Tower Records have folded their distribution outlets, so we’re hard pressed to find distributors because of the advent of digital. It’s a double-edged sword.

JK: Do you think it’s more good than bad?

LB: Music, like any business evolves. There used to be 45 RPM records and cassettes, all of which have gone the way of the dinosaur. Things are now digital, they can capture the analog work through digital means, and instead of having a portable cassette player or portable CD player, the majority of the world has an MP3 player and is buying digital product, so you have to conform to the marketplace that exists. I just look at it like that.

JK: Do you think it changes how the listener perceives the music?

JB: A listener who hasn’t had the experience of records or vinyl won’t miss it. They have it in their iPods and on their computer, and they know how to mix it and DJ it and stuff with the means that they have, so the absence of actual records doesn’t affect them at all. A person who is aware of vinyl and CDs, they look at it as an absence of that medium in favor of the new medium being undertaken. It’s a 50/50 thing: about half of them like it, and it’s because half of us like the real record and scratching and so on. The digital guy doesn’t miss it at all, because he doesn’t even care that it existed. He has the digital beatboxes and record players that duplicate the effects of real records. They can scratch it and everything.

JK: For me as a consumer, I bought records all my life and CDs as that became more of the thing. Still, when it’s possible to get the record or CD, I will. It’s not that digital is always bad quality, but it’s much quicker for me -- and doesn’t leave as much of an impression.

LB: That could be a psychological thing, like you miss the analog. I actually miss watching the record go around. When I was a little kid in the ‘50s, one of the fascinations was twirling my head and watching the record go around. I don’t have that anymore. I had to convince myself that I didn’t necessarily miss it. The important thing is that the sound is heard and the album is heard. Medium aside, that’s the most important thing to me.

JK: You’re performing again with Black Ivory?

LB: I’m performing with Black Ivory and with myself. I reentered the performing world. I re-joined Black Ivory in 1995 after the death of their manager, Leonard Adams. We started doing little local things around town, then we began to think on developing an album, which I’m happy to say is close to completion. We wanted to release it this year, which is actually our 40th anniversary, and my 40th anniversary in the business. I wanted to get both my album and the Black Ivory album out this year, but there are some things that delayed the Black Ivory project.

JK: Where are you performing now when you do the Black Ivory gigs?

LB: Wherever we can get a show that pays and people would like to hear us. We recently performed in Atlantic City and were honored by them making June 5th, 2010 Black Ivory Day there. That was very cool.

JK: Is it still the original guys?

LB: The three original members of Black Ivory are still intact: myself, Stuart Bascombe, Russell Patterson.

JK: You mentioned getting back into performing in the ‘90s and one thing that came to my mind that seemed to spearhead a lot of things for you. There was a concert in France that you did with Change, and it was released on a DVD.

LB: The big show wasn’t so much with Change, but with the Delfonics, Ray, Goodman and Brown, Stylistics, Blue Magic and so on, and that was all recorded and released on public television, and a DVD release came out. This realigned Black Ivory and myself with all of our old friends. In addition, as we began to progress in performing, we began to bump into more people from the ‘80s: Meli’sa Morgan, Colonel Abrams -- so it’s all tying in and working together now.

JK: For Throwback Vol. 2, are you going to be performing those songs live?

LB: Yes, I’ve already worked it into my performances. I did the Southport Music Weekender, and after that I did a show in Lyon, France. The plan is to do a release party in London that involves a full live performance with all of the musicians and so forth.

JK: I have two more questions: What do you have to say about writing “Big Time” for Rick James? Did you actually work with him; or just submit it?

LB: How “Big Time” happened was like this: James Calloway , Sonny Davenport and myself went into the studio, Blank Tapes. We had some songs in our head, and my good friend Bob Blank let us go into the studio for free to record some stuff. We took advantage of that and made three songs. We made “Once You Got Me Going,” “Over Like A Fat Rat,” and “Big Time.” On our way home from that demo session, we stopped at the home of Kenny Morris, who was Patrick Adams’ partner in a lot of productions such as Musique and Phreek. We stopped at his house to meet up with Patrick and Kenny, and Rick James was there visiting. We sat down and just kicked it with a couple glasses of wine. So Rick asked us, “What are you guys working on?” We said, “We just came out of the studio doing some music work,” and he said, “Let me hear it.” The first thing that we played was “Big Time”; he took to the song right away. He began talking to Patrick and everybody at that moment about how he wanted to put that song on his Garden of Love album, and we said, “Sure! We would be honored for you to work on our material.” So we worked out the details, and Patrick was a co-producer on that particular track, and we were happy with it when it came back.

JK: You mentioned that one of the songs was “Over Like A Fat Rat,” which was one that you recorded at Blank Tape Studios at that time. That’s been an important record in your career as well. What was the process like with that?

LB: At Al Zanholm’s studio in Harlem where Sonny and I, and the Aleems lived in the same building, and James would come by and jam, we actually composed these songs. We’d make little cassettes of it for our pleasure, but we got the offer for some free studio time, so we went downtown to put them together as actual songs or records and begin that process. But it starts with an idea in my head or one of the heads of my partners. We get together, we play on it and try to get it happening.

JK: Are you familiar with the singer Carol Williams?

LB: Yes, I’m very familiar with Carol’s work.

JK: She said that she was offered that song for consideration to record it over at Vanguard.

LB: She turned it down.

JK: Yeah, she did. She didn’t know what the lyrics meant, or the concept I guess.

LB: She turned it down and Fonda (Rae) liked it and it was the career-making record of her career.

JK: In that time period, she had done things with Patrick under the name Rainbow Brown as well, which was big for her.

LB: One more thing about “Big Time” now that you mention Carol. “Big Time” was presented for Stacy Lattisaw at Atlantic Records and she turned it down. As a result, it went to Rick James and it was a big hit for him. I remember hearing about the executives at Atlantic/Cotillion records really freaking out because they had that record and they let it go.

JK: We talked about the record “No Way,” which you originally did with Inner Life. You did it with Bobbi Humphrey and it was such a musically relevant thing for you. I know Ralph McDonald produced it. Was it a different experience doing it?

LB: I talked about the lessons I got at the Apollo Theatre from Stevie, and then we linked up with Stevie again on the third album. Stevie was working on his Songs in the Key of Life album, and we were both in the Hit Factory. We were on the fifth floor and Stevie was on the third. We both went upstairs and downstairs to each other’s sessions at that time and nurturing the mutual admiration we had for each other. James Calloway actually became Bobbi Humphrey’s bass player, and Bobby was looking for songs, and we had “No Way.” It was really for Inner Life, but Bobbi wanted to do it. Bobbi is really good friends with Stevie as well, and she gave me a call that Stevie was coming in to record harmonica on it. I was like, “Wow!” Talk about full-circle. This is one of my primary mentors coming in to play on a composition of my own, and I was in heaven.

JK: I knew her briefly in New York from Ashford & Simpson’s Sugar Bar. Do you know it?

LB: I haven’t been.

JK: It was one of my favorite records that she recorded. I mentioned “Inner Life,” and she didn’t know it had been recorded before. It’s a very different feel with those two records. Was the overall “Inner Life” experience something that you had involvement in?

LB: It was Patrick Adams’ project. We used Jocelyn Brown on the Dazzle album, and working with her was just a good experience all around; she was a kindred spirit. That’s how we came up with “Moment Of My Life” She met us at the apartment studio, and she put us in mind of the song’s storyline and concept, and we were all just kickin’ it and talking about life experiences, and she was telling us about where she was at the time, and we said, “Let’s formulate that into a song.” Working with Jocelyn has been one of my two joys and something I’m thankful to the Most High for, as well as many other things that I’ve taken part in. Jocelyn is pure muscle.

JK: There was another record that you did some mixing on that was very different: Clurel Henderson I believe? It was a record called “Hurtown.”

LB : I was working with Teddy Riley. I was already producing and Teddy was beginning to step into the music business, and through our mutual friend, Gusto, he pulled us together and asked if I would work with Teddy and show him the ropes. One of the projects was the Clurel project, so I worked on that with Ted to implore some of the processes that I use in song construction and so on. I actually gave him a few lessons on playing keyboards, and he excelled in it.

JK: I’m sure you’ve been told a lot of times, but your depth of your work in the different genres speaks a lot about your abilities. It’s been a real pleasure to speak with you.

LB: The pleasure has been mine as well. If I was to leave some parting words: I’m enormously grateful of the support of people around the world who have appreciated my music, and they have taken such a shine to it, and I’m really grateful on a deeply spiritual level and grateful to everyone who gives my music the time of day. I’m extremely gratified by the fact that some of my music makes a difference in some people’s lives, and makes an impression, so that has been an enormous blessing for me. I can’t express how much gratitude I have for the supporters around the world. I try not to describe them as fans because of the association with the word fanatic, so I try to describe them as supporters, and I have a lot of respect for them.

JK: Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions with insightfulness about the process.

LB: I appreciate you taking the time to ask the insightful questions. I thank you for your research. It’s been a very enjoyable interview, and I look forward to seeing it.

JK: I’ll email you when it’s ready, because I have to do all the transcribing and editing. Should be up next week.

LB: Oh, you have to transcribe it and edit it; that’s the fun stuff. If it’s coming out in two weeks, then it will coincide with the physical release of Throwback Vol. 2.

JK: Was it the 25th that you were looking at for that?

LB: Initially we were looking at the 18th, and now we’re looking at the 16th through the 25th, and I’m really excited about it.

JK: I’m looking forward to it, too.

LB: They’re doing a vinyl printing of the whole album, so there will be limited availability for vinyl and CDs and the digital release is ongoing.

JK: Good luck with it. Helen said you’re doing something with Black Ivory tomorrow.

LB: We’re receiving the Heroes of Harlem Award because we’re a Harlem group and we have been contacted and asked if we would attend the awards presentation, and of course we will. I’m looking forward to that.

JK: It’s a nice title to have.

LB: It’s a pretty cool thing. With the release of Throwback Vol. 2, I’m continuing to do more performances and expose the album and do promotional things to inform the public of the fact that it’s out and I’d like for them to give it a listen and see if they like it, and I hope they will.

JK: I imagine the supporters will be happy to hear that you’re doing a little bit of the old and the new... Well, man, I hope you have a great weekend.

LB: Thank you again for taking the time and presenting each question.

JK: That means a lot to me. Thank you.

LB: Peace & Blessings, my brother.

JK: Same to you. Thanks Leroy.

Soul Music
 
Philip Bailey - July 2, 2010

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For 40 years, Philip Bailey has been an integral part of one of music's most successful bands: Earth, Wind & Fire. And like the elements, his love for the music has endured and evolved as he reveals to Darnell Meyers-Johnson... ​


Darnell Meyers-Johnson: So good day, everyone. This is Darnell Meyers-Johnson for SoulMusic.com. Today I’m going to be speaking with a living legend: he is a seven-time Grammy Award-winner; he is a Rock and Roll Hall of Famer; he is a Songwriters Hall of Famer; he is co-founder of one of the most influential bands in the history of music. He is funk, he is jazz, he is soul, he is gospel: he is the one and only Mr. Philip Bailey of Earth, Wind & Fire. How are you, sir?

Philip Bailey: I’m pretty good. Hey, I’d like to add to that I’m also a double Doctorate.

DMJ: There you go! The list goes on, right?

PB: Yeah. It’s an honour from Berklee School of Music and Columbia University of Music. You know, I just wanted to give them a plug.

DMJ: That’s awesome. So how does it feel when you hear those long lists of accomplishments and accolades? How does that make you feel?

PB: It feels nice. Gratifying, in a certain respect. I don’t think that I really focus on that. I feel humbled and thankful for the things that I’ve been able to accomplish; for the accolades and things that have been bestowed upon me in my career. At the same time, I’m very much so focused on the present: on doing new music, and keeping the Earth, Wind & Fire household in order, and staying on top of our game, professionally and emotionally, physically and spiritually, until… I don’t really give it too much thought.

DMJ: I hear you. And we are going to cover some of that ground. I know that you have a new EP that just came out, and you guys are on a summer tour, so we’ll get to some of that. But first, I do want to congratulate you on your recent induction into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. That was just a couple of weeks ago, right?

PB: Yes, it was, and it was quite exciting. I got a chance to perform “Easy Lover” with Phil—

DMJ: Ah!

PB: —for the first time since we did it, and that was a lot of fun. And then performing “September” with the original guys, with the original writers, Al (McKay) and Larry Dunn, myself, Verdine (White)… Maurice (White) wasn’t able to make it because he had a son that graduated, his graduation was that same night. But he was very highly spoken of.

DMJ: That’s awesome. It’s funny that you mentioned the Phil Collins duet, because as I was feeling people out and letting them know that I was going to be speaking with you, that’s what a lot of people mentioned. It kind of caught me by surprise, I mean, I know that’s one of your biggest hits, but it just seemed like everyone was like, “Oh, ask him about the Phil Collins song.” [Laughs] So you guys got to do that after so many years?

PB: We did, and it was a lot of fun. And…

DMJ: Have you—

PB: I beg your pardon?

DMJ: I’m sorry, I interrupted you. You were saying?

PB: No, I was just saying it was a lot of fun, and people really enjoyed it.

DMJ: So, speaking of the fact that you’ve been inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, that kind of gives a lot of credence to the fact that… ( connection failure)

PB: Wow. I think I might have lost you.

DMJ: Just a second. Can you hear me?

PB: Hello, you there?

DMJ: Yes.

PB: Okay, you came back.

DMJ: Okay, I’m not sure where we interrupted, so I’m just going to go back—

PB: You said—I lost you on credence.

DMJ: Oh, okay. I was just trying to make a point: the fact that you guys have been inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame really speaks to the fact that what has been part of your longevity is the fact that you had so many good songs. And so I was just wondering: when you’re out and about, or maybe afterwards at concerts and whatnot, which song is the one that you get the most feedback from the fans about?

PB: Well, there’s not any one particular one, ’cause like you said, there are so many that are peoples’ personal favourites, and all that, but I think possibly the one that has the most universal, one hundred per cent, you know, hands-down… it would have to be “September”.

DMJ: Oh, okay. Yeah. And why do you think that is, with that particular song? Why do you think that one reaches people a little more than the others?

PB: Well, it’s a good, happy-feeling song. And the hook is so catchy and simple. In fact, when we wrote the song—well, when Al and them wrote the song, I thought that the song was personally too simplistic to be a hit. I was like, “Man, that’s too simple.” But little did I know, you know, almost forty years later, that that one’s still going strong.[laughs].

DMJ: It still works. It’s kind of like “Shining Star”. When I listen to “Shining Star”, that seems… I mean, the message in that just seems really, you know, it’s not… lyrically, it’s not overpowering. There’s not a lot of symbolism, necessarily. I mean: shining star. You get it. But it seems rather simple too, in a good, positive way.

PB: Yeah, but I think that… “Shining Star”, from a conceptual standpoint, a lyrical standpoint, it’s a lot more weightier than “September”, I thought. You know, because of what it’s really talking about, you know: whoever you are, in your own eyes, in your own humanity, you know that you are significant. That you are a shining star, and no matter what you’re going through, or whatever, no matter where you are, that that light, that glow, and stuff, is still your choice, to actually shine. So, it’s a little more weightier in its philosophical standpoint.

DMJ: Now that also brings me to the point that a lot of your songs have had this sort of spiritual element to it. I mean, has that been something that just kind of naturally happened, or were you guys purposely trying to put out a healing message?

PB: Well, it’s not only a lot of them, it’s kind of predominant—it’s a predominant thread throughout Earth, Wind & Fire’s lyrical content: that it was our focus to actually speak into the lives or into the hearts of people in a positive, uplifting kind of way. And so for that reason, we really chose to keep that bent on the things that we wrote about; and subsequently, those songs are able to actually speak, even to me, forty years later, in a way I wouldn’t have imagined when we wrote them.

DMJ: Right.

PB: Yeah, songs like “Sing a Song”. When I’ve been going through a bad patch, and still having to perform or work, that song has kind of actually kind of really spoken to me.

DMJ: Yeah.

PB: Well, not kind of, it has.

DMJ: I can see that, too. I mean, that’s what the beautiful part about positive music, is the fact that it just lives forever, and it doesn’t matter if it was written forty years ago or a hundred years ago, if it’s a—

PB: Right.

DMJ: —if it’s a really good song, people still connect with it. So the fact that you guys have always had that spiritual concept throughout your music as Earth, Wind & Fire—did that help you make that progression when you decided, as a solo artist, to go into the gospel arena? With your solo stuff…

PB: Yeah. It wasn’t anything… it was my own personal journey, my own personal faith and beliefs that actually was the catalyst for doing the gospel stuff. I think that from the standpoint of what we were doing, I wanted to just see a lot broader infusion of different types and elements of music and production in the gospel… in the gospel music presentation that I was giving. Kind of typical, or similar to Andre Crouch and how he was able to really break a lot of barriers in gospel, in terms of the way he started to present the message in a lot of different various kinds of genres and styles of music.

DMJ: Now—I’m sorry?

PB: No, I didn’t say anything.

DMJ: Oh, okay. Well, that also… I wanted to also ask you about the fact that throughout your career you’ve touched on so many genres, as I said in the intro. With Earth, Wind & Fire you kind of had that funk sound; you guys even went through a little bit of the disco movement; on your own solo stuff you’ve touched on jazz and gospel—all these different things you’ve influenced people in so many different ways. I’m just wondering, who influenced you, way back when you were a teenager?

PB: Well, all those people in those different genres, from jazz: Miles Davis and Coltrane, and the like, to Mahalia Jackson and gospel, and you know… Morgana King, Nat Cole… then, you know, Gershwin; all of the classical stuff; Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, you know… just a lot of different stuff. I was raised in (Denver) Colorado, so there was a lot of country and middle-America stations. And I grew up in the ’60s and ’70s, so I was a hippie.

DMJ: [Laughs]

PB: [Laughs] So you know, playing everything.

DMJ: One of the songs I wanted to ask you about that you guys did as Earth, Wind & Fire that you did not write was a cover of “Got to Get You Into My Life”, the Beatles. Did you guys ever get any feedback from any of the Beatles in terms of what they thought of your cover? Because I think that, next to theirs, yours is probably the most well-known.

PB: I can’t really remember if… obviously we did it for the ‘Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band’ movie, which they were a part of. We didn’t do our taping or our visual part at the same time they were present, so we didn’t get a chance to meet them. We did meet Sir Paul (McCartney) when we were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Didn’t speak much about the song, though.

DMJ: Okay.

PB: So I’m not sure.

DMJ: [Laughs] Okay. And speaking of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, just… people like myself, who will never have that moment, we won’t know how it feels, so we kind of have to live vicariously through those who have been there like yourself—so, explain to me, as best you can remember, being there and what that feeling felt like to you?

PB: Well, it starts out like a typical, industry event, with the red carpet and the whole thing. I think that when it really gets serious is when you’re sitting there, and you’re going through this chain of people who have been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: all of whom have contributed so much, not only to music but the world in general, and culture, and changed culture, and all that. And to be named amongst them, to know that you’re going to be named in the same breath with all of those great people—and then, the people who have not been inducted, who have done even more significant things than some who have been inducted, is a really humbling experience. And one that you try to hold onto, take in and savour the moment.

DMJ: Okay. Now, of all those things that you’ve accomplished, and I know that, as you said earlier, you put a lot of your current-day focus on what’s happening now—and we are going to talk about the new project in just a moment—but of all those accomplishments; all the songs, all the awards, all the concerts… which, of your many accomplishments do you feel the most proud of?

PB: I probably would have to say… I’d have to say the honorary doctorate from Berkeley would have to be amongst the top.

DMJ: Okay, and why is that?

PB: Because I’ve always been a serious student of music, and I was in college, it was always a goal and aspiration of mine to finish. I never could have dreamt in my wildest imagination that a prestigious college, university of music would honour me in any way, much less bestow on me a doctorate degree, an honorary doctorate. It takes so much work, so much dedication, so much knowledge and skill for people to get those, the work that they have to put in… so they don’t go through that process and do that, you know, light of heart or mind or soft. You know, it’s a whole process. The honour was very, very big, to receive that. My son actually graduated from Berkeley—the one who’s singing with us now—but he did the work. [Laughs]

DMJ: [Laughs]

PB: And they honoured us for our work we’ve done globally, and internationally, and for the time in which we have done it.

DMJ: Right, so that brings me to something I was going to wait a little later to ask, but since we’re kind of on it already: what would be the advice that you would give students of music, whether they’re doing it formally, in an institution, or whether they’re in a band somewhere, just starting out… what would be your best piece of advice for them in terms of how to have the sort of longevity that you’ve had?

PB: Well, I think that first and foremost of I would probably say to do it as much and as often as you possibly can, whatever you’re doing: whatever instrument, whatever field you’re doing, do it all the time, ’cause that really pays dividends. And then the other thing for people in the arts now is, they have to be multi-dimensional, in terms of not only their own talents and abilities to the art, but in the wheres and the how-to's of how to market and distribute and promote their own products. Now that has become part and parcel of the idea of becoming a successful artist. You have to know those things, and be almost as passionate about those things as you are about the music.

DMJ: So it’s no longer enough to be a good singer or a good guitar player, anymore?

PB: I won’t say it’s no longer enough, I would say it’s going to serve the person who has developed that craft and that skill to also be up on the other aspects of marketing and advertising and producing, and showcasing their talents and abilities. Back in the day, there were few people like Madonna, or other acts such as her who—or Earth, Wind & Fire—who really saw the whole vision, and was really ahead of the curve in terms of how they wanted to be portrayed and how they wanted to be marketed and advertised, and all that and stuff. So now, without the record companies and A&R and all the different departments that were in place to do those things, it’s important that an artist really have a vision for themselves, as well as the talent.

DMJ: Right, because you guys, as Earth, Wind & Fire, you also were very—like you were just saying—you were very visual, even in the concerts, the album covers… so I can understand what you’re saying.

PB: Yeah, we were very instrumental, conceptually, in terms of what the concept of our whole organization was about. And artists nowadays… they have to have that now. Before it was, if you had it, you did; if you didn’t, there were going to be A&R people and whole divisions and floors of folks that would send you from office to office to get that stuff together. And that’s no more.

DMJ: Yeah. So that kind of brings me… we’ll go right into your latest project, which is an EP, ‘Love Is Real’. That was just released a couple of days ago, right?

PB: Yeah, yeah. It’s called ‘Love Is Real’, it’s an EP, it has four songs on it. It’s actually from a forthcoming PB project that we’re going to release at the beginning of the top of the year. The project was really inspired by the electronic genre, ’cause I started to get into it a few years ago, and start to see how many different genres of music were represented in that, and really wanted to just do some more up-tempo music, and not to be pigeonholed to have to out-hip-hop this person, you know, or get bogged down with any type of a lot of barriers. And the electronic genre seems to be a very free-form, freethinking genre, and so that’s why I really got interested in it. And so it’s inspired by that, works with my own camp, you know. Then I worked with Cee-Lo, three weeks to a month ago on his project, and that was very exciting. And I was also listening to his stuff as I was working on this project, there was Gnarls Barkley and the things that he’s been doing, so… it’s a fun project.

DMJ: Yeah, actually I had a chance to listen to it last night. For longtime fans, I think there’s going to be stuff on there that they’re really going to be feeling; there’s going to be stuff that’s going to be maybe a little bit different, that they haven’t heard you do, but I think overall people are going to like it. One of my favourite tracks is actually “You In I”, which kind of has a midtempo, almost kind of jazzy feel, really.

PB: Yeah.

DMJ: What are your reflections on that particular tune?

PB: Well, what we did was, for the entré to the project we chose these particular songs, really, to kind of whet the appetite of the audience. Because I know that my core audience—all of them are not going to be into the direction of some of the music, because it’s not anything expected. And you know, it’s up-tempo, it’s club, you know, it’s…

DMJ: You never really do the expected, anyway. [Laughs]

PB: [Laughs] Right. So, because we were going on tour and we knew we’re playing for a lot of the core audience, we put the songs together that we thought would kind of whet the appetite, but not alienate them, or whatever? But then, the rest of the music is totally a lot more energetic, a lot more club, and just a lot more… it’s just fun. It’s just up-tempo, lot of energy.

DMJ: Now I do want to ask you about one other track on it. It was the one that was inspired by the Haiti earthquake: “We’re Going to Make It”. That’s kind of different for you, that whole sound of that tune. What are your reflections on that, and how that came about?

PB: Well, we were in the thralls of the end of the project when that catastrophe happened, and we were inspired to write that song as a result of what happened. So that’s how that came about.

DMJ: And also what’s different on that song, because people are so used to you singing in that well-known falsetto of yours, but on that particular tune you’re kind of more in your almost natural, I guess a baritone voice.

PB: Right.

DMJ: Did you make that conscious decision, to not go high on that particular tune, or…?

PB: It’s just how you… it’s just where the song is. When you write the song, you don’t really—I’m not really thinking of if I’m going to be high or if I’m going to be low, but—just where the song is written.

DMJ: Just how you feel it?

PB: Yeah, how it’s written, yeah.

DMJ: And since we’re talking about that, just very briefly, speak a little bit about your vocal range. Did you have training, or was that just a complete, natural-born gift? Just speak on that for just for just a little bit.

PB: I didn’t get that part.

DMJ: I was saying, regarding your vocal range, can you just speak on whether you had any vocal training, or whether it was just something that came completely natural.

PB: Oh, the vocal range came from me—first, God blessed me. But I grew up kind of mimicking female vocalists. I loved Dionne Warwick and Sarah Vaughan, and all that. People like that… like Morgana King, Mahalia Jackson. And the doo-wop era came along, where you had the Stylistics and the Delfonics and all that. So I was always singing that stuff, but, at the same time, I’m a natural baritone and I studied operatic baritone in school.

DMJ: Okay.

PB: So it’s always been a challenge to hook up the total instrument, from bottom to top. Like a piano, you know [laughs].

DMJ: [Laughs]

PB: You know, bridge it all together. So on all my projects, I try to showcase the full range of my voice, which is a little more than four octaves.

DMJ: And I’ve got to tell you, one of the main questions of people who haven’t been aware of your stuff lately is: Well, can he still sing? Can he still hit those notes? And I’m just going to say—I know you already know the answer—but I’m just going to say, from listening to the brand-new project last night, that for anybody listening: Yes, he can still hit the notes, and it is also good.

PB: [Laughs]

DMJ: So, let me just lastly ask you about, I know you guys are going on a summer tour? Has that already started?

PB: Oh, yeah, I’m in the coffee shop right now. We’re playing tonight in Alpharetta (Georgia). We’ve been touring all summer.

DMJ: Okay.

PB: And we leave tomorrow. We’re here in Alpharetta in Georgia now and we play tonight, and tomorrow we go to the Essence Festival in Orlando—I mean, in New Orleans. And then from there we go to Europe, and we’ll be in Europe for three and a half weeks, all over, and then we’ll be back in the States.

DMJ: Okay, and tell me how this particular tour is. Is this a little more scaled-down from what you guys did back in the day, or… what can people expect if they came out to see you?

PB: Obviously we’re not flying, and doing double, multi-tiered stages and all that kind of stuff. Those things are very cost-prohibitive, and you have to be doing stadiums to do that kind of stuff.

DMJ: Yeah.

PB: But we’re playing between five and seven thousand, to smaller auditoriums; concert halls. The show is very pristine; we have great production, great sound, great musicians, you know, and a great songbook. And we’re still doing our thing at its highest level, so… we’re still having a good time, and we’re still packing them in; the reviews, for people—everything's out there for people to see now, all the reviews they can see for themselves, and see that we get nothing but fabulous reviews, and we try to keep it that way.

DMJ: [Laughs]. Well, just let everybody know, in this world where everybody keeps in touch via the Internet, just let people know—I know you have a Web site, where they can get the new project—just let them know how they could keep in touch with you, technology-speaking-wise.

PB: Right. At Philip Bailey—one L in Philip—at philipbailey.com, and with Earth, Wind & Fire, it’s ewffanclub.com.

DMJ: And they can pick up the new project on… it’s available on iTunes, and—

PB: Yes, and they can download a free song from my project at philipbailey.com.

DMJ: Okay. Well, I do appreciate your time. Is there anything you want to say that we haven’t covered?

PB: No, I think that we’ve done pretty well, you know. I hope that everyone continues to pray about our world and our country, with the oil spills and the wars, and all the rumours of wars, and all the unrest and stuff that’s going on in our world, you know. Continue to pray and continue to love one another, and spread the good music and good vibes.

DMJ: Well, I do appreciate your time. Here at soulmusic.com, any time that you want to come by and speak, you don’t have to have a project, you can just talk any time you want to talk. And so I do appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

PB: Thank you so much.

http://www.soulmusic.com/feba20inpo.html
 
Al Goodman 1947-2010

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Al Goodman, one-third of Ray, Goodman & Brown as well as the Moments ("Love on a Two Way Street"), has died at age 63 of an undisclosed illness. Part of two of the most underrated soul groups of the past half century, Goodman provided the "bottom end" on hits such as "Special Lady" and "Take It To the Limit."

Part of the generation of soul music groups that arose in the late 60s and early 70s, the combination of Harry Ray, Al Goodman and Billy Brown became most notable as perhaps the greatest live performing group of that elite bunch. While many groups of that era had more successful recording careers, few have equaled the stage presence and consistent crowd pleasing shows of RG&B.

The trio was brought together by Stang Records in 1970 as replacement members of the label's soul group the Moments. As the Moments, they hit the top of the pop and soul charts in 1970 with the falsetto ballad, "Love On A Two Way Street." That began a string of major soul hits throughout the 70s, including "If I Didn't Care," "Gotta Find a Way," "Sexy Mama" and another soul chart topper, "Look At Me (I'm In Love)."

As the decade came to a close, the group experienced significant creative differences with Stang and label founder Sylvia Robinson (later known as a rap pioneer through her Sugar Hill label). Unfortunately, Stang owned the "Moments" name, and the group's departure from the label meant leaving their well established moniker behind -- a tough pill to swallow after a decade as the Moments.

They signed with Polydor in 1979 and decided to simply label themselves Ray, Goodman & Brown in part "because no one can take our names from us." Their Polydor debut was a masterpiece, led by the #1 crossover hit "Special Lady." In a time of disco domination, an album featuring ballads with rich harmonies and casual repartee among group members clearly appeared out of place. But it was just what weary soul music fans were looking for and the LP shot to the top of the charts. In fact, the first side of the disc, featuring "Special Lady," "Inside of You," "Slipped Away" and "This is the Way Love Should Be" was the best album side of that year (and most other years) and created a whole new following for the group among fans who didn't know that Ray, Goodman & Brown was the Moments renamed.

Their follow-up disc, Ray, Goodman & Brown II, was similar to its predecessor and spun off two minor hits with "Happy Anniversary" and a cover of the Platters' "My Prayer." However, by the time of the group's third album, Stay, it was considerably more difficult to get airplay for what was viewed by many industry people as an "old" Soul sound. Harry Ray left the group for a brief solo career in 1982 (ironically on Sylvia Robinson's Sugar Hill label), but returned by the mid-80s. The group made a minor comeback in 1987 on EMI with the big ballad "Take It To the Limit," but wasn't able to score a follow-up hit. Unfortunately, tragedy followed, as Harry Ray died suddenly in 1992. He was replaced by long-time group associate Kevin Owens, a talented tenor and falsetto lead who had toured for years with Luther Vandross.

Through the 90s, RG&B continued to find welcoming audiences as they toured extensively with the Stylistics, the Chi-Lites, and other classic soul groups. While they tended to play early in the bills, their ability to transcend their collection of hits when performing live -- often interspersing hot covers of modern hits in their shows -- made them crowd favorites (especially the women) in most major cities. Their sexy, upbeat, exciting act generally stole the show in the multi-group tours and has kept them busy and in demand years after their last hit.
In 2003, fifteen years after their last recording, Ray Goodman & Brown released not one, but two new albums. The first, Intimate Moments, collected some new and some previously unreleased recordings but, despite good reviews, received little attention. The other disc was a concept album, the self-released A Moment With Friends (available on the group's website), in which the group covered hit songs of some of their friends - namely, other classic soul groups from the Stylistics ("You Are Everything," "Break Up To Make Up") to the Manhattans ("It Feels So Good To Be Loved So Bad") to Blue Magic ("Sideshow," "Three Ring Circus"). It was a great concept, and the performances were even better. The recording is crisp and the group's harmonies are divine. And while the covers are generally faithful to the original versions, they hold up very well on their own and on occasion (such as their version of the Main Ingredient's "Spinnin' Around") maybe even surpass the originals. It is one of my favorite albums of 2003 and is a must collection for lovers of 70s soul groups.

Late in '03 the group was contacted by Alicia Keys to provide vocal support on her album, Diary of Alicia Keys. Ray Goodman & Brown's backing harmonies created the foundation for the album's first release, the wonderful 6 minute smash "You Don't Know My Name." They have since performed on several occasions with Keys, who is to be given great credit for recognizing and honoring this wonderful vocal group. A few years later Goodman produced an excellent Sam Cooke tribute album by the Manhattans' Gerald Alston. And in 2009, the group began working on a pilot for a radio show called "A Moment With Friends."

Whether as the Moments or as Ray, Goodman & Brown, the group (both with Harry Ray and now with Kevin Owens) has consistently been one of the most reliable and enjoyable soul groups, and sounds better than ever 34 years after first coming together.

I See Color
 
Lenny Williams

Although I pretty much got burnt out on this song long ago, :D I have never seen any footage of Lenny performing it from the time period it was out until today.
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^^^ Simply the best.... lol I never seen live footage of Lenny singing this song either...
 
LW

mjscarousal said:
^^^ Simply the best.... lol I never seen live footage of Lenny singing this song either...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was digging those moves the horn players were doing too. :D I noticed this footage had some Japanese symbols at the beginning with Lenny's name. It always amazes me that in Japan old soul & funk music artists are respected, but ignored in it's own country.
 
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