Latest on MJJC

Tommy Mottola talks about Michael Jackson in his book Hitmaker - Comprehensive summary

mthalen said:
Of course it's not. That's the whole idea behind the word 'realistic' :D
Man, it seems some people feel the need to try and defend any and everything MJ ever did.
There's no need for that, this is a fan forum, everyone loved the man. But that doesnt mean everything he did was right or you may never judge any of his actions...
Click to expand...
as stated by admin, no fan has to tell another fan what to defend or what not to defend about Michael, smiley's aside.
 
Wasnt directed at you, was meant in general, in the cant we all get along kinda way.
And youre kinda like the pot calling the kettle black when youre saying I'm wrong calling MJ unrealistic.
But anyways, lets agree to disagree on this.

In my opinion Michael was the greatest entertainer ever, but he made some lousy decisions in his lifetime and was surrounded by a lot of crappy people. I had expected him to live until he was 80+ but was shocked he got taken from us basically because of the choices and people around him...

I can imagine TM saying friendly things about MJ now, why wouldnt he? They knew eachother for years before the fallout. And lets not forget Michael was under a lot of stress at that time: HUGE debts, an album that wasn't selling as good as he expected....

I remember watching MJ sign albums on Times Square (live stream) back in the days. I think invincible or YRMW came too late; most people I knew growing up were over MJ around that time and the younger generation wasn't into this black dude that looked white... It's sad he had to die for people to realize what we've lost.
 
Last edited:
Everything Michael did regarding artistry was big, big album productions, big short films, big tours, therefore, big dreams. You can't change a person over night since he was used to such amount of pressure since he was a baby and was used to compete with others since he became famous.
 
mthalen said:
Wasnt directed at you, was meant in general, in the cant we all get along kinda way.
And youre kinda like the pot calling the kettle black when youre saying I'm wrong calling MJ umrealistic.
But anyways, lets agree to disagree on this.

In my opinion Michael was the greatest entertainer ever, but he made some lousy decisions in his lifetime and was surrounded by a lot of crappy people. I had expected him to live until he was 80+ but was shocked he got taken from us basically because of the choices and people around him...
Click to expand...
you call him greatest entertainer of all time for a reason, yet you call him on his own decisions. You didn't know him any more than I. nor do any of us know the real circumstances behind his being taken from us. The difference between me and you is I'm not going to put a condemning tone to someone who has their definition of reality for themselves. You have your definition. I just have a problem with the name calling tone going towards someone with a different definition of reality. There is no set definition of reality IMO. that's all i'm sayin. As long as a person's definition of reality doesn't include hurting or killing others, or something like that, there's no need for condemnation.
 
I call him on the decisions he made later on in his life, which led to his demise.
And we disagree about the definition of reality ;)
I think going from 100 to 45 to 32 to 20 shows quite a trendline. So expecting 100 again isn't realistic. And I guess reality proved it, as the next album sold 13. Lets not forget MJ was in his prime in the 80's, most 'real' fans stuck around, but like I said before: most people that were into MJ in the 80's and early 90's got over him after that (as the album sales also show).
 
and again, your logic suggests you're saying a lot of unreported sales count as non existent people. another misconception is that if you're a Michael Jackson fan you're not a member of the general public. And there's always the possibility of an agenda behind posted numbers. Have you ever heard the sports term 'skew the numbers' to fit someone's opinionated agenda? I'm not going to pretend that Michael wasn't the victim of some nefarious B.S. There's your reality. A lot of envious people can pull some serious you know what. My point remains singular and simple. Between Michael and Mottola, one of them was a coward and waited till the other one passed away. And only one of them called the other's idea of reality 'delusional'. That's what I have a problem with. I don't call someone else's reality delusional. So I'm not the pot calling the kettle.
 
Last edited:
Are you seriously implying people skewed sales figures starting from Thriller onwards?
OK.

And who said that if youre a MJ fan youre not a member of the general public? I just stated that around me most people didnt care about MJ anymore after Dangerous. And as you can see from the sales figures, that goes for more.
But if you want to suggest that that was because the sales figures were skewed, than thats your opinion. Maybe Invincible did sell 100.000.000 copies as well and they just didn't count or register them.
 
mthalen said:
Are you seriously implying people skewed sales figures starting from Thriller onwards?
OK.

And who said that if youre a MJ fan youre not a member of the general public? I just stated that around me most people didnt care about MJ anymore after Dangerous. And as you can see from the sales figures, that goes for more.
But if you want to suggest that that was because the sales figures were skewed, than thats your opinion. Maybe Invincible did sell 100.000.000 copies as well and they just didn't count or register them.
Click to expand...

i can agree on that possibility. Also, I live in a neighborhood, where I wore a shirt, saying King of Pop, and some people around me laughed at me. That's not how i determine whether or not people lost interest in Michael. I mean..so what. Sometimes, the 'cool' neighborhood folks don't wanna be seen liking someone whom the media accused of bleaching his skin, etc. Turns out, in my neigborhood, a lot of people went into a corner store, during the night, and the clerk, whom many in that neighborhood, think is a cool dude, was blaring Michael's music. Suddenly the same people who were dissing MJ, earlier were saying how cool MJ was. So..surface vision isn't always clear. Just because people around you act a certain negative way toward Michael, doesn't determine how people on this mighty big planet, overall, feel about Michael. Sometimes we have a tendency to think our neighborhood is the entire planet. I've heard stories and witnessed occasions where people would diss MJ on the outside, but be caught singing his lyrics 'in the closet'...and owning his albums 'in the closet'.
 
Lets not forget MJ was in his prime in the 80's, most 'real' fans stuck around, but like I said before: most people that were into MJ in the 80's and early 90's got over him after that (as the album sales also show).
Click to expand...

Who were buying tickets to his This is it concerts then if people wasn´t interested in him anymore?
I don´t agree with that Michel was in his prime in the 80's.I know that Thriller is his best selling album but I think Michel just got better with age.
 
mthalen said:
Of course it's not. That's the whole idea behind the word 'realistic' :D
Man, it seems some people feel the need to try and defend any and everything MJ ever did.
There's no need for that, this is a fan forum, everyone loved the man. But that doesnt mean everything he did was right or you may never judge any of his actions...
Click to expand...

That's a big problem in the fan community. Nothing was ever Michael's fault. Bizarrely, I find the same thing being projected onto the Estate now - they can do no wrong in the eyes of some.
 
Im not saying people went interested anymore. They were LESs interested.

Who were buying tickets?
50 concerts, 500.000 people 2 per person). But they were from all over Europe, and even as far as the US.
So yeah: nice feat, of course, but they advertised it as the final concerts.
Probably a lot of tickets went to companies and advertising partners as well.

And this also shows what I meant: I didn't know anyone besides myself who bought tickets (except online off course). Most people shrugged when I told them MJ was performing. After he died things changed, but that was too late. And no, my experience doesnt have to be every one elses, but be honest: how many people you work with or went to school with got tickets for TII? I know a lot of people here did, but thats to be expected.
 
you want me to be honest about who bought TII tickets? Like I said..who's going to be honest about what they bought concerning Michael, if I ask them? What about this reality...some people wanna be 'cool' and go with what media says. What difference does it make how tickets were sold? Bottom line is..TII tickets kept selling in waves, and they never stopped, until Michael died.
 
I think when TII tickets went on sale it was cool if you got them so I doubt people would be on the hush about it. With them selling out so fast and being in every news show around the world...

When he rescheduled those first shows it was the beginning of the end.
 
That's my point. whatever's cool at the time. People who diss Michael suddenly see TII is selling like wildfire...they go..oh oh...it's cool to talk about Michael again. Reality. Whatever's trending, talk about it so you can be part of the crowd. That didn't mean that there weren't people out there who were snickering at Michael. I mean, there are people out there who probably don't like Twitter, but they're on it because..it's the in thing to do.
 
I remember the millions of people that took to the internet on 06/25/2009. News articles were getting millions of views in only an hour or so of being posted and the internet was under such an incredible strain we all thought it was going to crash!

I will never forget that there were people who felt they could no longer stay here after Michael left.
 
Michael said no more shows after 50 outsold shows I think it was confirmed that he could have sold out at least 100 shows.
They thought of doing a world tour so the interest must have been huge probably a lot more than 100 shows.

I didn´t have tickets for the concerts but I was very happy that he was going to to do them.
It´s a big world and even if 50 million people bought tickets to the shows it´s possible that I wouldn´t know one of them
 
Yeah, they said he was to make $400.000.000 if he would complete the 3.5 year tour.
Around the same amount he had in debts.
Sad, sad, sad.
 
Leave the quality aside of "Invincible", i wonder what exactly those 25mil promotional cost were spend for. Every fan knows and saw that the album didnt have any promotion, forget promotion close to the promotions of his previous albums. They thought the long awaiting of the album, would make the album sell alone. As they saw that just few weeks later that the album decline, cut the promotional plans.
No 25mil were spend. It was problably planed 25mil promotion, but never executed.

So next time when you guys moan about low or no promotion of "michael", "immortal", "bad25"or any other postumous release, think about Invincible.
 
mthalen said:
I think when TII tickets went on sale it was cool if you got them so I doubt people would be on the hush about it. With them selling out so fast and being in every news show around the world...

When he rescheduled those first shows it was the beginning of the end.
Click to expand...

The rescheduling of shows 2, 3 and 4 had no cinnection to Michael's death. Had he lived, I believe he would have completed the shows.
 
StellaJackson said:
The rescheduling of shows 2, 3 and 4 had no cinnection to Michael's death. Had he lived, I believe he would have completed the shows.
Click to expand...
Well, I was rather pissed when I heard my tickets for what was supposed the be the second show, turned out to be tickets for the 2nd last show :(
And he rescheduled because they weren't ready. They weren't ready because he didn't rehearse enough, because he was stressed, couldn't sleep etc, etc, propofol. The End.

When I heard that they had rescheduled the shows my reaction was something like: "not this again, maybe he'd be better off dead, so some of his glory will remain".
Which, sad enough, turned out to be true.
 
mthalen said:
Well, I was rather pissed when I heard my tickets for what was supposed the be the second show, turned out to be tickets for the 2nd last show :(
And he rescheduled because they weren't ready. They weren't ready because he didn't rehearse enough, because he was stressed, couldn't sleep etc, etc, propofol. The End.

When I heard that they had rescheduled the shows my reaction was something like: "not this again, maybe he'd be better of dead, so some of his glory will remain".
Which, sad enough, turned out to be true.
Click to expand...

Still, rescheduling those shows had no impact on what Murray did on June 25th, which ultimately lead to michael's death.
 
^^Even though it is kinda moot at this point I still have to ask to not let us make more out of this than it really was, they postponed the shows because they wanted to have more time to rehearse at the O2, which they wouldn't have had by the original schedule, because of other shows taking place at the O2 until 2 days before Michael was due to start.

Here is the original statement issued on May 20th (they went more into detail on a Q & A held by Ortega and Philips):

A statement on the singer's website www.michaeljackson.com says, "Due to the sheer magnitude of the This Is It concerts at The O2 arena promoters and producers AEG Live and Kenny Ortega, Michael's directorial partner and creative collaborator have elected to move back a few of the opening shows in order to meet the challenges presented by such a massive and technically complex show."

The changes are

o July 8 will take place on July 13 2009

o July 10 will be moved to March 1 2010

o July 12 will be moved to March 3 2010

o July 14 will be moved to March 6 2010

AEG Live president and CEO Randy Phillips adds, "Kenny and Michael are, at the same time, both creative pioneers and perfectionists. This show has grown in size and scope, thereby, necessitating more lead time for manufacture of the set, programming the content for the massive video elements, and, most importantly, more time for full production and dress rehearsals in the world's busiest arena, the O2.

"As much as we agonized over this change in the original schedule, we are sure the fans will understand when they experience the level of entertainment Michael Jackson intends to deliver while also ensuring the safety of the musicians, cast and crew and the crisp execution of the production."

http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/jackson-dates-postponed/039985


It was only 5 days, if Michael missing rehearsals would have been the reason to postpone they still could have made up the time in those 1 and half months they still had until opening.

Geez, reading this brings me back to the feeling of excitement and happiness we all had... and then it went all to hell.
 
Last edited:
True, the rescheduling had no effect on his death.
Though it was a sign things weren't going as they were supposed to go.
But we only got to hear about it after MJ died.

They rescheduled the shows about 4 weeks before he died.
Michael had problems sleeping months before (well, actually years, but around TII he was asking for sleeping aids back in april 2009).
Murray started in june 2009, when MJ was already having problems sleeping.
 
Prometheus77 said:
^^Even though it is kinda moot at this point I still have to ask to not let us make more out of this than it really was, they postponed the shows because they wanted to have more time to rehearse at the O2, which they wouldn't have had by the original schedule, because of other shows taking place at the O2 until 2 days before Michael was due to start.

Here is the original statement issued on May 20th (they went more into detail on a Q & A held by Ortega and Philips):

A statement on the singer's website www.michaeljackson.com says, "Due to the sheer magnitude of the This Is It concerts at The O2 arena promoters and producers AEG Live and Kenny Ortega, Michael's directorial partner and creative collaborator have elected to move back a few of the opening shows in order to meet the challenges presented by such a massive and technically complex show."

The changes are

o July 8 will take place on July 13 2009

o July 10 will be moved to March 1 2010

o July 12 will be moved to March 3 2010

o July 14 will be moved to March 6 2010

AEG Live president and CEO Randy Phillips adds, "Kenny and Michael are, at the same time, both creative pioneers and perfectionists. This show has grown in size and scope, thereby, necessitating more lead time for manufacture of the set, programming the content for the massive video elements, and, most importantly, more time for full production and dress rehearsals in the world's busiest arena, the O2.

"As much as we agonized over this change in the original schedule, we are sure the fans will understand when they experience the level of entertainment Michael Jackson intends to deliver while also ensuring the safety of the musicians, cast and crew and the crisp execution of the production."

http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/jackson-dates-postponed/039985


It was only 5 days, if Michael missing rehearsals would have been the reason to postpone they still could have made up the time in those 1 and half months they still had until opening.

Geez, reading this brings me back to the feeling of excitement and happiness we all had... and then it went all to hell.
Click to expand...

Come on people! Murray was the scape goat. Phillips and Thome had a back up plan if MJ got cold feet. Read into it what you may. I don't want to get into conspiracy theories but let's be real. Paint him a drug junky and all the allegations in the past. His reputation pretty much tarnished and in question. It was a life or death contract. Face it!
 
mthalen said:
True, the rescheduling had no effect on his death.
Though it was a sign things weren't going as they were supposed to go.
Click to expand...

No, it was a sign that they wanted to rehearse at the place the show was taking place. Michael always was rehearsing and setting up a couple of days before opening night at the venue the first show was going to happen. Like I said before, with the original schedule, the O2 would have only been available for 2 days. With the postponement they got about a week in London at the O2. With 1 and a half month of time until opening night they could have made up 5 days of general rehearsing easily, if that would have been the reason for the postponement.

No matter how much you want to try to tie the postponement into his death. It has nothing to do with it. And I don't think you have to lecture any of us what was going on. We all are painfully aware.
 
This time, I tend to be on Tommys side..., simply... the Yes men who told Michael what Michael wanted to hear from them..., Michael living in his imaginary world headlessly spending money for recording music, producers and all the stuff, and after 2000 blaming everybody around for his failures and his lost brainwaves because he was like burnt out with music ideas and inspirations... so... Tommy is not that devil...
 
perhaps the next artist should be an android. then another mottolla like guy and his company can come up with any idea they want, make it last to their heart's desire. let me see then, how much money they make. when i think of mottolla i think of svengali with mozart. cold hearted. heartless, rather.
 
Last edited:
tumblr_mh9a4jdtm71rhk2w1o2_250.gif
:doh:
 
Mottolla was on MSNBC morning Joe. Showed photos of Tommy with MJ, Springsteen, and other big stars. No mention of MJ whatsoever. Mottolla is way too busy trying to keep up with his young wife. Couldn't stop gawking at the new, and i don't think improved Tommy Mottolla.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top