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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
    One thing that seems to be popping up a lot is Safechuck's mother saying she was happy when Michael died. The defense I have seen about that that is supposed to prove he is lying is Safechuck only realised he was abused after Wade came out so how could his mother know about it in 2009? But reading his initial complaint, that is not what he says. He says he mentioned to his mother in 2005 that he was "abused". He says that he compartmentalised his feelings about the abuse for years, not that he didn't realise it was abuse. I need to re-read the later documents to see what he claims later, but I think fans maybe should stop going to that argument as it's not really accurate.

    Possibly James was bitter about Michael in 2005. Possibly the phone calls never happened in the first place and his mother is in on this with him. There are hundreds of millions of reasons to go along with it after all. The claims of the defense team calling him to testify are very dubious after all.
    I have not seen the doc yet, I cannot get myself to see it but i will do soon. One question, I understand he says that mj dumped him at one point after the bad tour but called him after the 1993 allegations, bought him a house and stuff like that. Having watched it, would you please brief us on this particular time? there is an ex employee on twitter now saying that she was there at Neverland in the early 90's, saw the Safechucks many times at the ranch but mj was never there. 'He chose not to be'.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCav View Post
    Yes, he says he told his mom MJ was "an evil man" in 2005 because he did not want them to defend MJ during the trial (not that they could have anyway, as they could not have been called as witnesses for the reasons Scott Ross described).

    He does actually say he did not realize it was abuse until Wade came forward in 2013. See this clip:

    https://twitter.com/SoCav_/status/1102966764172951552

    Oprah: "When did you first realize it was abuse? You use the word freely now as adult men, but when did you start to think of it as abuse?"
    Safechuck: "It wasn't until Wade came out."


    I do think that's a different matter, because Frank was actually named as an unindicted co-conspirator, and he was Michael's assistant while the Arvizos were around. Safechuck had not been around MJ for many years and was, as Scott Ross explained, legally a non-entity. There simply was no reason to call him, as he simply could not testify.


    He does actually. He says Michael called him twice, and he says the second time was "towards the end of the trial." He again says Michael tried to get him to testify. Now, not only does this not make sense because, again, Safechuck was a non-entity. It also does not make sense because the court needs to be informed of witnesses at a much earlier stage. Even if he had not been a non-entity, it makes no sense that MJ would have called him towards the end of the trial.
    Thanks for the clip. That is indeed very odd. You could argue he didn't understand the question, but he seemed to elaborate on it like he did know what Oprah was asking. Why were you mad at him in 2005 if you didn't consider it abuse yet? How did you literal say the words to your mother "I was abused" (it's in his complaint), if you did not recognise it as abuse yet?
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundmind View Post
    I have not seen the doc yet, I cannot get myself to see it but i will do soon. One question, I understand he says that mj dumped him at one point after the bad tour but called him after the 1993 allegations, bought him a house and stuff like that. Having watched it, would you please brief us on this particular time? there is an ex employee on twitter now saying that she was there at Neverland in the early 90's, saw the Safechucks many times at the ranch but mj was never there. 'He chose not to be'.
    I think they do mention the house briefly but I can't say for sure. I don't remember them saying anything about visiting Neverland while Michael wasn't there.
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
    Thanks for the clip. That is indeed very odd. You could argue he didn't understand the question, but he seemed to elaborate on it like he did know what Oprah was asking. Why were you mad at him in 2005 if you didn't consider it abuse yet? How did you literal say the words to your mother "I was abused" (it's in his complaint), if you did not recognise it as abuse yet?
    Yes. I've tried very hard to understand what exactly Safechuck is alleging (in terms of the timeline) but I just don't get it. Further complicating it is that he says in the film that when MJ died, he felt "very sad" because "they'd never be friends anymore." This is 4 years after he called him an evil man to his mom and 4 years after he says he dismissed him when he talked to him on the phone in 2005. I guess one could argue he just had complicated feelings towards him, but it does seem odd to me.

    What I also find strange is that we are to believe his mom did not ask him any questions when he told her that MJ was an evil man in 2005. She supposedly immediately knew exactly what he meant, sensed he wanted to keep it a secret, and so never bothered to ask him anything about it again. Apparently, it was not important to her to know exactly what happened to her son, nor did she figure that it would be important for the safety of other kids to inform law enforcement. Her saying that she was so happy when MJ died because he would not be able to abuse any other kids thus rings rather hollow - she didn't bother to do anything that could help these supposed victims 4 years prior.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
    I think they do mention the house briefly but I can't say for sure. I don't remember them saying anything about visiting Neverland while Michael wasn't there.
    She talks about it in this clip:
    streamable.com/2uhxq

    She says MJ gave them the loan after her husband had already given a deposition (she's not very clear, but it seems she says also after James had defended him). So she's not saying he dangled a carrot in front of them before they were deposed. Furthermore, he did not turn it into a gift until after "all that was said and done." To me, it thus makes no sense to claim that it was hush money. It makes more sense that he was just grateful they stuck by him and wanted to do this for him. Or maybe it was totally unrelated, and just one of MJ's many acts of generosity.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCav View Post
    Yes. I've tried very hard to understand what exactly Safechuck is alleging (in terms of the timeline) but I just don't get it. Further complicating it is that he says in the film that when MJ died, he felt "very sad" because "they'd never be friends anymore." This is 4 years after he called him an evil man to his mom and 4 years after he says he dismissed him when he talked to him on the phone in 2005. I guess one could argue he just had complicated feelings towards him, but it does seem odd to me.

    What I also find strange is that we are to believe his mom did not ask him any questions when he told her that MJ was an evil man in 2005. She supposedly immediately knew exactly what he meant, sensed he wanted to keep it a secret, and so never bothered to ask him anything about it again. Apparently, it was not important to her to know exactly what happened to her son, nor did she figure that it would be important for the safety of other kids to inform law enforcement. Her saying that she was so happy when MJ died because he would not be able to abuse any other kids thus rings rather hollow - she didn't bother to do anything that could help these supposed victims 4 years prior.
    In the complaint it does say that he went a bit further than just saying Michael was a "bad man".

    Plaintiff talked to her about the call and told his mother that DECEDENT was a “bad man,” but was unable to tell her any details or say anything but the very briefest statement that he had been abused.
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
    In the complaint it does say that he went a bit further than just saying Michael was a "bad man".

    Plaintiff talked to her about the call and told his mother that DECEDENT was a “bad man,” but was unable to tell her any details or say anything but the very briefest statement that he had been abused.
    Thanks for that. It does not erase my questions. I just have a very hard time believing that a mother would not press her son on this (James says in the film she never did), even if he said he was unable to tell further details initially.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCav View Post
    Thanks for that. It does not erase my questions. I just have a very hard time believing that a mother would not press her son on this (James says in the film she never did), even if he said he was unable to tell further details initially.
    Not only that. She supposedly talked on the phone to Michael AFTER that and said nothing.
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildStyle View Post
    Not only that. She supposedly talked on the phone to Michael AFTER that and said nothing.
    Did she really? Does she say this in the film (if so, I do not recall it)?

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pentum View Post
    The media and the documentary have really gotten a hold of you, guys. Take a few days off from all social media, TV and news is my tip. This whole situation is nothing but an illusion which will pass on soon and the more you ignore it, the sooner it will pass on. Peace
    It certainly feels like an illusion... I thought I'd be above this crap, but it's been more than a distraction.
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by etoile 37 View Post
    Not talking about Michael, but I think I need to point out here that there are tons of people who don’t have an active sex life. They are not asexual, they are just not dependent on sex. They just haven’t found someone they want to be in a relationship with, and they are not into having one-night stands. So the argument that if Michael wasn’t having sex with women then he MUST have been having sex with someone is just... Frankly, I don’t understand that argument. There’s nothing abnormal or wrong with people who don’t have an active sex life. Just because some people feel they can’t go for long without sex doesn’t mean that everybody feels the same way. And whether or not Michael was having sex with women outside of his wives is completely irrelevant when it comes to the allegations. What proves the allegations to be false is this:
    -Evan Chandler being on tape detailing his extortion plan before “knowing” that his son had been molested.
    -Arvizo, Robson and Safechuck not being able to keep their story straight. There’s only one version of the truth, but Robson and Safechuck's version of the truth keeps changing all the time. That is not the truth. And we have clear proof that some of the things they are alleging are false (like Arvizo claiming that Michael had shown him a certain magazine, but the date on the magazine indicated that the magazine hadn’t even been published yet at the time, etc.)

    I also think I need to point out something else: Michael wasn’t sleeping with children, he was sleeping with people, including grown men and women he had no sexual interest in. Stephanie Mills said she used to sleep with him in his bed when he was filming the Wiz, but they never had sex. Robson said in 2005 that he was still sleeping in Michael’s bed when he was 19 years old and the only reason he stopped doing it is because he felt maybe he should give Michael his privacy. But if it wasn’t for him stopping on his own, Michael probably never would have kicked him out of his bed, despite the fact that he was now a grown man. I think it would be interesting to make a list of all the people who slept in Michael’s bed, I think that list would be pretty long…

    Now why did he sleep with so many people?

    Well, for one, that’s what he was used to. That’s what he had been doing since he was a little child. He said on the Glenda tapes that as a child and as an adult, his bodyguard Bill Bray used to sleep in his hotel room. He said on the Shmuley tapes that as a child, he used to share his hotel room with two jewish men who were working for them. This was normal for him. That’s what he had known all his life. Of course, we can’t relate to that.

    Another interesting thing, this is a quote from Diana Ross in 1984: “He has so many people around him but he’s still afraid, especially to be alone at night.”

    I’m wondering if maybe Michael didn’t feel comfortable sleeping alone and that’s why he was happy to let (I say ‘let’, because Michael said himself that he never invited people in his bed, he simply allowed them when they wanted to) people sleep in his bedroom. Maybe it comes from his childhood, his father scaring him in the middle of the night with the monster masks, his father bringing fans in the room so they could watch him sleep, crazy fans breaking in his house and hiding in his closet… All of this could explain why he liked having people he trusted in his bedroom with him.



    Good actors... Doesn't mean what they are saying is true. People cry when they watch sad fictive movies. Just look at how Safechuck's timeline is all wrong and you will know that the things he's saying just didn't happen. That's what you need to look at to know whether they are telling the truth or not, not at their emotions. Check how their stories kept changing in the court documents from their lawsuit against the Estate.
    In your post I recognize the real Michael Jackson. Thank you, for your plausible, simple, common sense explanation!
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCav View Post
    Did she really? Does she say this in the film (if so, I do not recall it)?
    Its in his civil lawsuit. Safechuck made his mother not tell Michael that he had told her about the abuse. So according to Safechuck MJ phoned the mother and she did not say that she had been made aware Michael had molested her son!

    Here is it is:


    Last edited by Lightbringer; 06-03-2019 at 06:11 PM.

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  19. #43
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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    So here is James Safechucks story:

    MJ called and begged Safechuck to testify in the trial even though he WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to testify in the trial. So first we need to believe that. And then we believe MJ phoned the mother to beg for her to convince Safechuck to testify in the trial he WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to testify in.

    And then we believe Safechuck told his mother he had been abused, and also told her to not reveal it. So when Michael called she pretended all was fine.

    And then Safechuck and his mother let the child molester get away with molesting Gavin Arvizo - and left Michael Jackson the SERIAL MOLESTER on the lose so he could go on abusing other children and possible his own children!

    And then we believe Safechuck telling his mother he had been ABUSED in 2005, but AT THE SAME TIME, not realizing IT WAS ABUSE until he received his first child (1st version) or when he saw Robson on TV (2nd version).

    And then he hired a lawyer that was an expert on child abuse, focused mainly on child abuse in school. And had him file a civil lawsuit claiming "MJJ Productions were a school and should be held responsible for all children within it." And the lawyer used his "regular" school abuse cases as the platform for Safechucks civil suit.

    Further note: Safechuck also claims he was concerned about pedophiliac urges in 2010, I am not sure how that fits in with everything else.

    Its pretty confusing, right?
    Last edited by Lightbringer; 06-03-2019 at 07:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Confusing it is. I am ready for the truth whatever it is. Good or bad, I'd like it to end but that's wishful thinking on my part.

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    Default Re: Asking ourselves tough questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Further note: Safechuck also claims he was concerned about pedophiliac urges in 2010, I am not sure how that fits in with everything else.
    I remember this but I don't remember where it was from. Do you remember? Do you have a link?

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