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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
“Oh yeah, we were even going to work together. But his bizarre behaviour put the kibosh on that. It was 1988 – around the Bad and Faith periods – and it’s funny, looking back, but at the time we were the biggest male pop stars in the world, rivals I suppose. And our label Sony had this grand idea of a  duet – the two Michaels – it could’ve been the biggest thing ever!

But I’d heard that  Prince had turned him down. I also knew that he was sitting on stuff he’d done with  Freddie Mercury - apparently they fell out because Freddie would get coked up and kept urging him to come out ofthe closet ! Was Freddie trying it on with him? Who knows? But it wouldn’t surprise me, knowing Freddie! Anyway, a meeting was arranged at the Jackson family compound in Encino. Michael had just bought Neverland but we’d heard that no adults were allowed there, except staff. We drove all the way to the house in the steaming heat of California. It took ages to get there in the steaming heat of California; a really long drive in a stuffy car from LA and I’m really hot and sweaty.

When we arrive, we’re shown into the porch by the front door and told that Michael will be down to see us shortly. I was standing there for 20 minutes. Then Michael arrives, in full make-up with shades on, inside the house. He’s accompanied by his manager Frank DiLeo, and I have my manager with me, so there’s the four of us standing in the hallway, and Frank does all the talking.”
“Not once does Michael ever shake our hands, take his shades off or speak directly to us. I try to engage him in conversation but he just turns his head and looks at the floor. All questions to him have to go through his manager, even when you’re standing right in front of him. Unbelievable rudeness!

As the managers try to work out the logistics of who would write the song and all that, the only time Michael volunteers to speak is a whisper in Frank’s ear:

‘Michael wants to know how much do you think we could sell of this record?’”
“It would have been absolutely massive, ands my manager made it clear it would be, but it was almost like Michael wanted some kind of guarantee: ‘I will only agree to work with you if it’s going to sell at least x million.’

But by this point I’d lost interest. We’d been talking for over an hour and not once were were offered a drink or even a chair. I came away thinking this guy is a complete and utter nutter. And that was the last time there was ever any talk of the two of us working together. But no amount of record sales was worth that kind of behaviour.”

George Michael talking about Michael in 2005.
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honestly would have to side with George here, though it would have obviously been exaggerated. shocked to hear that freddie attempted to talk up MJ into "coming out" though hahah
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
“Oh yeah, we were even going to work together. But his bizarre behaviour put the kibosh on that. It was 1988 – around the Bad and Faith periods – and it’s funny, looking back, but at the time we were the biggest male pop stars in the world, rivals I suppose. And our label Sony had this grand idea of a  duet – the two Michaels – it could’ve been the biggest thing ever!

But I’d heard that  Prince had turned him down. I also knew that he was sitting on stuff he’d done with  Freddie Mercury - apparently they fell out because Freddie would get coked up and kept urging him to come out ofthe closet ! Was Freddie trying it on with him? Who knows? But it wouldn’t surprise me, knowing Freddie! Anyway, a meeting was arranged at the Jackson family compound in Encino. Michael had just bought Neverland but we’d heard that no adults were allowed there, except staff. We drove all the way to the house in the steaming heat of California. It took ages to get there in the steaming heat of California; a really long drive in a stuffy car from LA and I’m really hot and sweaty.

When we arrive, we’re shown into the porch by the front door and told that Michael will be down to see us shortly. I was standing there for 20 minutes. Then Michael arrives, in full make-up with shades on, inside the house. He’s accompanied by his manager Frank DiLeo, and I have my manager with me, so there’s the four of us standing in the hallway, and Frank does all the talking.”
“Not once does Michael ever shake our hands, take his shades off or speak directly to us. I try to engage him in conversation but he just turns his head and looks at the floor. All questions to him have to go through his manager, even when you’re standing right in front of him. Unbelievable rudeness!

As the managers try to work out the logistics of who would write the song and all that, the only time Michael volunteers to speak is a whisper in Frank’s ear:

‘Michael wants to know how much do you think we could sell of this record?’”
“It would have been absolutely massive, ands my manager made it clear it would be, but it was almost like Michael wanted some kind of guarantee: ‘I will only agree to work with you if it’s going to sell at least x million.’

But by this point I’d lost interest. We’d been talking for over an hour and not once were were offered a drink or even a chair. I came away thinking this guy is a complete and utter nutter. And that was the last time there was ever any talk of the two of us working together. But no amount of record sales was worth that kind of behaviour.”

George Michael talking about Michael in 2005.
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Unpopular opinion, but George comes off like a complete douchebag here. Obviously he has every right to feel the way he does, and MJ certainly didn’t come off in a good light with this interaction, but it isn’t lost on me that there are previous interviews where George says MJ was perfectly polite… and then switches up his stance in 2005. Seems like he’s capitalizing on the public stance.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Unpopular opinion,
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Not so unpopular, actually

AlwaysThere said:
but George comes off like a complete douchebag here.
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Agreed. This is the sort of story about Michael that I always take with a pinch of salt. What's really going on, is this an accurate narrative, is there an agenda? Isn't this the story that was embedded in a longer article where George was angry about the 2005 Not Guilty verdicts? That doesn't mean he's not telling the truth about this visit to Michael's home but I wonder if any part of it is being exaggerated. Just a thought. :unsure:

AlwaysThere said:
Obviously he has every right to feel the way he does,
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Absolutely.

AlwaysThere said:
and MJ certainly didn’t come off in a good light with this interaction,
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He doesn't but I would want more info, quite frankly. I don't want just one side of the story. Not bc I can't accept that Michael might have been rude on this occasion but just bc this only presents one (biased?) side of the story. This is the kind of anecdote where I stay neutral bc I don't have enough info.

AlwaysThere said:
but it isn’t lost on me that there are previous interviews where George says MJ was perfectly polite… and then switches up his stance in 2005. Seems like he’s capitalizing on the public stance.
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Who knows what was really going on? As for the collab, if it was a record label idea maybe Michael just didn't wanna do it.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Unpopular opinion, but George comes off like a complete douchebag here. Obviously he has every right to feel the way he does, and MJ certainly didn’t come off in a good light with this interaction, but it isn’t lost on me that there are previous interviews where George says MJ was perfectly polite… and then switches up his stance in 2005. Seems like he’s capitalizing on the public stance.
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Don’t forget that this was off the record. It wasn’t meant to be published I think. George just spoke his mind.
 
Quick snip from 1984 talking about a possible collaboration between Michael and Paul Anka for the song Hold Me Til' the Morning Comes. Could be getting mixed with Love Never Felt So Good but I think they worked on 3 or 4 songs during this time
11091144-10200297184508787-1079694406083501801-n.jpg
 
BlackAnon said:
Quick snip from 1984 talking about a possible collaboration between Michael and Paul Anka for the song Hold Me Til' the Morning Comes. Could be getting mixed with Love Never Felt So Good but I think they worked on 3 or 4 songs during this time
11091144-10200297184508787-1079694406083501801-n.jpg
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I love them describing Mike as a "music phenomena" shame how things changed in such a short time

Thanks for these newspaper clippings and the information mate, it's really interesting
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I love them describing Mike as a "music phenomena" shame how things changed in such a short time

Thanks for these newspaper clippings and the information mate, it's really interesting
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Thank the good ole UK Tabloids for that. Thankfully they are not as crazy as they were back then but i had forgotten how bad they could be.
 
Beano Wild said:
honestly would have to side with George here, though it would have obviously been exaggerated. shocked to hear that freddie attempted to talk up MJ into "coming out" though hahah
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I would have to side with George too, if it hadn't been for the many accounts on Michael's crippling social anxiety at the time; apparantly there were moments he couldn't even look people straight in the eye and didn't know what to say, and this only got a bit better later on
 
BlackAnon said:
George was probably upset Michael backed away from the possible collaboration because he blabbed about it.

21616445-10154731092382212-9126011513463666001-n.jpg



Then later in 2012, he talked about how sad he was when Michael passed.
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I'm so glad this is about George Michael and not George Harrison. I got very sad (and also confused) but now I am perfectly relieved.
 
Crazy thing is with AI you could take MJs home demoes and essentially complete them with barely any effort. Not the vocals, the instrumentals.
 
Victorious said:
I would have to side with George too, if it hadn't been for the many accounts on Michael's crippling social anxiety at the time; apparantly there were moments he couldn't even look people straight in the eye and didn't know what to say, and this only got a bit better later on
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If he had said something, that'd be scrutinized too probably.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Crazy thing is with AI you could take MJs home demoes and essentially complete them with barely any effort. Not the vocals, the instrumentals.
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Yeah AI has been getting surprisingly good with instrumentals lately. Just the other day there was a Jukebox-extended 2000 Watts that ended in a very characteristic (for Invincible) breakdown. It sounded more like a Rodney Jerkins cut, but it still fit well.
 
I have mixed feelings regarding AI and music. Definitely wouldn't want any vocals touched. What I would love to see is more of what Steve Porcaro did with "Chicago 1945" - the original collaborator(s) adding overdubs at their discretion. Maybe they'd be released as "reimaginings" or "reinterpretations", but I would be interested, nonetheless.
 
FlyAway0086 said:
I have mixed feelings regarding AI and music. Definitely wouldn't want any vocals touched. What I would love to see is more of what Steve Porcaro did with "Chicago 1945" - the original collaborator(s) adding overdubs at their discretion. Maybe they'd be released as "reimaginings" or "reinterpretations", but I would be interested, nonetheless.
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Yes, exactly my point.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
AI would be good for remastering home demos. Don't really see why we'd want the instrumentals replaced, wouldn't be something MJ made then and would negate the whole point of listening to a home demo.
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It isn't even about a want. It's just a prediction of the music making process.
 
FlyAway0086 said:
I have mixed feelings regarding AI and music. Definitely wouldn't want any vocals touched. What I would love to see is more of what Steve Porcaro did with "Chicago 1945" - the original collaborator(s) adding overdubs at their discretion. Maybe they'd be released as "reimaginings" or "reinterpretations", but I would be interested, nonetheless.
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I mean vocals are already being "touched" by autotune & melodyne, with both being ais of sorts. I'd love to hear an MJ song that could do with harmonies having them being added through the use of AI
 
Beano Wild said:
I mean vocals are already being "touched" by autotune & melodyne, with both being ais of sorts. I'd love to hear an MJ song that could do with harmonies having them being added through the use of AI
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Fair point on autotune and the like. My personal beef would be with attempts to create tracks where the vocals didn't exist, to begin with. For example, a producer using lyrics of an unrecorded song, feeding it into AI, and then attempting to pass it off as an original, legitimate vocal take that MJ approved. I'd rather hear the vocal as it was when MJ actually recorded it - even if it's finger snaps and mumbles.

If it's a fanmade track and the intent is for pure entertainment, I can live with it, I suppose. But if/when it starts getting labeled an actual MJ tune is where I draw the line. I don't like the idea of the Estate possibly using AI to make the vault bottomless.
 
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AI supporters really do just want everything you could get a human to do to be done with AI for no reason lol.
 
I love how no matter how much you emphasize not using AI for vocals, people still take the time to yap on about how they hate AI vocals. And that part in general. Like? Are we that bored?

And as far as the instrumentals, if they're gonna take a 40 year old song and turn it into a pop ditty anyway (Paul Anka, John McClain), then what's the difference with letting chatgpt make the music. There's nothing soulful about this process anyway.

The Anniversary approach is totally separate to the "contemporizations" the Estate has valued in the past.

But then again, at this rate we're about done with music, and MJ is only a podcast analysis subject anyway. Quibble about the nothing we're getting anyway.
 
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Also, what is going on with this Hot Street leak? I’m confused did another version of the song leak?
 
Also, idk if this has been talked about but if Streetwalker was included in Bad, what would have the single been like in charts and would have it released the same day as APOM did irl? And would there have been a short film? The song is somewhat similar to TWYMMF so I don’t know how they would’ve done it. Maybe a Wild West/Southern setting going off the vibes of Swedien/Jones’ version?
 
threepea11 said:
Also, idk if this has been talked about but if Streetwalker was included in Bad, what would have the single been like in charts and would have it released the same day as APOM did irl? And would there have been a short film? The song is somewhat similar to TWYMMF so I don’t know how they would’ve done it. Maybe a Wild West/Southern setting going off the vibes of Swedien/Jones’ version?
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Streetwalker replacing "Another Part of Me" (APOM) unlikely to chart as well (Streetwalker's vibe less mainstream).
Same release date unlikely due to album flow considerations. Short film? Maybe, but "TWYMMF" comparison makes it a toss-up. Wild West theme a possibility.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I love how no matter how you much not using AI for vocals, people still take the time to yap on about how they hate AI vocals. And that part in general. Like? Are we that bored?

And as far as the instrumentals, if they're gonna take a 40 year old song and turn it into a pop ditty anyway (Paul Anka, John McClain), then what's the difference with letting chatgpt make the music. There's nothing soulful about this process anyway.

The Anniversary approach is totally separate to the "contemporizations" the Estate has valued in the past.

But then again, at this rate we're bout done with music, and MJ is only a podcast analysis subject anyway. Quibble about the nothing we're getting anyway.
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Please stop bringing up topics you allegedly don't even want to happen if you don't want people to start to discuss them
 
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