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Was Remember The Time performed in Rotterdam, June 30th 1992?

Themidwestcowboy

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I was watching a new interview with Eddie Garcia, great interview by the way, and they got into the subject of why RTT was removed from the Dangerous Tour setlist. It was very informative, but what stood out to me was that he adamantly told that they performed it live once. He also clarified that it wasn’t the DWT rehearsal footage that we’ve had all these years. That’s a second independent source confirming this, Daryl I think was the first. The only slip up from Eddie was that he believed that it was during the first show, all though he also said one of the first few shows.

We have Munich 1992 in full (audio) and there’s no RTT. We also have the full Rotterdam show (audio) from July 1st and there’s no RTT. After that we have almost all the shows in full (mix of audio and video) up until Cardiff.

Do you guys think Remember The time was performed on June 30th in Rotterdam? Has anyone heard an amature audio of this concert? If, a big if, it was as performed once, this would be the show right?
 
It's already been discussed here😉

Remember the Time – LIVE

I just listened to the latest MJCast, with dancer Eddie Garcia telling incredible stories about working with Michael. One of them being that Remember the Time was performed during the Dangerous Tour – but just once. He thought it was in Germany. (You should listen to hear what the...
www.mjjcommunity.com www.mjjcommunity.com
 
MJbr2 said:
Honestly, odds are very low that a song would be performed once on the second concert of a tour and never again. Munich was the testing ground really.
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I agree brother, but there is still a chance, albeit a small one, that it was in fact performed especially considering that we now have two independent sources claiming the same thing.
SmoothGangsta said:
Probably just mixing stuff up
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But this is the thing, he specifically talked about the Dangerous Tour rehearsal version and the 93 soul award version. So he was making a clear distinction between them. And theres also Daryl claiming this as well. The way he spoke about it seemed very convincing. At the most, could it have been a pre show rehearsal done at the same stadium as the show?
 
Fuzball said:
It's already been discussed here😉

Remember the Time – LIVE

I just listened to the latest MJCast, with dancer Eddie Garcia telling incredible stories about working with Michael. One of them being that Remember the Time was performed during the Dangerous Tour – but just once. He thought it was in Germany. (You should listen to hear what the...
www.mjjcommunity.com www.mjjcommunity.com
Click to expand...
Oh okay, but this is old. The interview where he re-stated this was new. He added additional information.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
After that we have almost all the shows in full (mix of audio and video) up until Cardiff.
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Someone's replied to this reddit-post:

I saw the Dangerous tour in Cardiff, and from what I remember half way through the show we had really bad rain, Michael couldn't perform as the stage was too wet so while we waited for the rain to stop and the stage dried off with guys with big mops the band and the backing singers performer a few songs to keep the crowd entertained, I remember them singing Remember the time and in the Closet. I don't think MJ was singing though.

It was definitely an amazing show! So lucky I convinced my mother to take me! But it as a long time ago and I was only 11 years old at the time so my memory is a little fuzzy. I can't remember if the backing singers sang the whole song's or if it was like a melody mix of a few different ones. I wish there was some footage or other people who attended who could help me out with some of the details!
 
Fuzball said:
Someone's replied to this reddit-post:

I saw the Dangerous tour in Cardiff, and from what I remember half way through the show we had really bad rain, Michael couldn't perform as the stage was too wet so while we waited for the rain to stop and the stage dried off with guys with big mops the band and the backing singers performer a few songs to keep the crowd entertained, I remember them singing Remember the time and in the Closet. I don't think MJ was singing though.

It was definitely an amazing show! So lucky I convinced my mother to take me! But it as a long time ago and I was only 11 years old at the time so my memory is a little fuzzy. I can't remember if the backing singers sang the whole song's or if it was like a melody mix of a few different ones. I wish there was some footage or other people who attended who could help me out with some of the details!
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This is interesting! Thanks for sharing. Though it sounds more like a band Jam like they did with In The Closet in Toulouse.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Oh okay, but this is old. The interview where he re-stated this was new. He added additional information.
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Curious to know what year is the interview?

There was a discussion about RTT a couple of years ago, iirc. This other dancer was mentioned, people went back and forth about whether Eddie Garcia was remembering a rehearsal, not a performance. Thing is, if it really was performed at an actual concert where are all the fan memories? Fan discussions? There doesn't seem to be anything. If the song was performed people would remember that. I really like Eddie - and he's a great interviewee, imo - but I have to assume he's misremembering this.
 
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Fuzball said:
Someone's replied to this reddit-post:

I saw the Dangerous tour in Cardiff, and from what I remember half way through the show we had really bad rain, Michael couldn't perform as the stage was too wet so while we waited for the rain to stop and the stage dried off with guys with big mops the band and the backing singers performer a few songs to keep the crowd entertained, I remember them singing Remember the time and in the Closet. I don't think MJ was singing though.

It was definitely an amazing show! So lucky I convinced my mother to take me! But it as a long time ago and I was only 11 years old at the time so my memory is a little fuzzy. I can't remember if the backing singers sang the whole song's or if it was like a melody mix of a few different ones. I wish there was some footage or other people who attended who could help me out with some of the details!
Click to expand...
Funny how we have an audience audio recording of said concert and it doesn't have the mentioned sequence (the recording is "uncut" as well).
 
Michael Jackson fanzines were following closely (with their fan field reports, etc) date by date the Dangerous Tour back then.

They never reported that 'Remember The Time' was performed live for one time only during that tour.

Besides, Jennifer Batten confirmed that 'Remember The Time' was never performed live during that tour (thsi was also confirmed by tens of thousands other people).
 
zinniabooklover said:
Curious to know what year is the interview?

There was a discussion about RTT a couple of years ago, iirc. This other dancer was mentioned, people went back and forth about whether Eddie Garcia was remembering a rehearsal, not a performance. Thing is, if it really was performed at an actual concert where are all the fan memories? Fan discussions? There doesn't seem to be anything. If the song was performed people would remember that. I really like Eddie - and he's a great interviewee, imo - but I have to assume he's misremembering this.
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It was not from too long ago (weeks or months) but was posted just recently.


Here is the specific part about Remember The Time:

 
MJbr2 said:
Funny how we have an audience audio recording of said concert and it doesn't have the mentioned sequence (the recording is "uncut" as well).
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Does an audience audio recording of Cardiff exist? I must have missed this.
 
MJbr2 said:
Funny how we have an audience audio recording of said concert and it doesn't have the mentioned sequence (the recording is "uncut" as well).
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The recording is cut e.g. before Thriller. Before the J5 medley, there is a short break and Kevin Dorsey even talks to the audience and mentions the fact that it is raining heavily.

So, the person from Reddit is probably not lying or misremembering. Those two songs could have not been recorded by the audience member, just like Man In The Mirror was not either.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
It was not from too long ago (weeks or months) but was posted just recently.


Here is the specific part about Remember The Time:

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Thanks for this.

He's not really saying anything new here although I haven't listened to the other interviews in a long time. It does seem like he's including more detail about the costume than I've heard before. Personally, I originally thought he was right about this RTT performance bc he's a performing artist, he knows the difference between a rehearsal and an actual performance in front of 70, 000 people! But bc there hasn't really been any other corroborating evidence I eventually decided he must be misremembering. I just keep thinking, if this had happened there would be multiple fan convos about it all over the place. So it just seems a bit odd. Ngl, when he talks about this, he is very convincing!
 
zinniabooklover said:
Thanks for this.

He's not really saying anything new here although I haven't listened to the other interviews in a long time. It does seem like he's including more detail about the costume than I've heard before. Personally, I originally thought he was right about this RTT performance bc he's a performing artist, he knows the difference between a rehearsal and an actual performance in front of 70, 000 people! But bc there hasn't really been any other corroborating evidence I eventually decided he must be misremembering. I just keep thinking, if this had happened there would be multiple fan convos about it all over the place. So it just seems a bit odd. Ngl, when he talks about this, he is very convincing!
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I know this isn’t quite the exact same thing but if the Toulouse footage wasn’t available would anyone believe that they performed In The Closet? Even if it was just the band? I’m still holding on to hope on this one.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I know this isn’t quite the exact same thing but if the Toulouse footage wasn’t available would anyone believe that they performed In The Closet? Even if it was just the band? I’m still holding on to hope on this one.
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Wasn't it a similar case with Walk Right Now? Iirc, it was thought to be rehearsal only for quite some time.
 
dethorro said:
The recording is cut e.g. before Thriller. Before the J5 medley, there is a short break and Kevin Dorsey even talks to the audience and mentions the fact that it is raining heavily.

So, the person from Reddit is probably not lying or misremembering. Those two songs could have not been recorded by the audience member, just like Man In The Mirror was not either.
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Jesus. I literally restored the recording myself and can't remember the cut.
Thank you for correcting me.
 
Nobody reported on it so it so don’t think so. What they did end up doing was Wanna Be Startin Somethin in the original key which sounded great so it’d still be amazing to just have an amateur audio of this show to hear that (& to prove RTT wasn’t done).
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I know this isn’t quite the exact same thing but if the Toulouse footage wasn’t available would anyone believe that they performed In The Closet? Even if it was just the band? I’m still holding on to hope on this one.
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I just revisited the MJ Cast interview Eddie did in 2020 - gotta be at least 3 years since I last listened to it! You've probably already heard this episode but I'll post it anyway. He talks about the RTT costumes quite a lot, he's still absolutely convinced they performed it in front of an audience just one time and, as always, he sounds so convincing.

Time stamp for the RTT bit: 1h 21m 50s - 1h 25m 50s


8th wonder said:
Nobody reported on it so it so don’t think so. [...]
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And there's the mystery! The absence of info on this (other than comments from Eddie and Kevin) is so weird. 🤷🏽‍♀️
 
zinniabooklover said:
And there's the mystery! The absence of info on this (other than comments from Eddie and Kevin) is so weird. 🤷🏽‍♀️
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If RTT was performed only once, and probably at some "smaller" venue, too, chances are low that someone's shared that piece of info online.

Remember back then, without internet, people didn't know what the setlist of previous shows was like.
 
So I have a theory...

IF Eddie is correct and it was performed live on the Dangerous Tour, it would have been Rotterdam June 30 1992 (the second show on the tour)

There's confusion around this because Mike performed at Rotterdam back to back nights, we have news footage of Jam and WBBS and we also have amateur audio. But they don't marry up.

I believe the news footage is June 30 and the amateur audio of Rotterdam is July 1. WBBS is the give away, Mike turns to the Band and shouts "Hey" because it's in the higher key (similar to Munich) this isn't present on the amateur audio. So I think they are seperate nights

What I'm saying is we haven't heard June 30 and anything could have happened that night, including Remember The Time in theory.

June 30th 1992

July 1st 1992 (WBBS around 25.20)

Apologies about the long post. Great thread as always my brother @Themidwestcowboy
 
Fuzball said:
Remember back then, without internet,
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That's my era! :D

Fuzball said:
people didn't know what the setlist of previous shows was like.
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People still shared information, though.

Fuzball said:
If RTT was performed only once, and probably at some "smaller" venue, too, chances are low that someone's shared that piece of info online.
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But there's been plenty of time since then to post comments and memories online. I mean, the online thing isn't even the main factor, imo. I'm just saying, Eddie's memory might be playing tricks on him, that does happen. So he could be wrong, he could be confusing a full dress rehearsal with an actual performance. I just find that kinda hard to believe. I've already said it but a performer knows the difference between a rehearsal in a mostly empty stadium / arena and a routine performed in front of a wild and noisy crowd of fans. I mean, he goes all out on the details in that MJ Cast interview. The drapes at either side of the stage with Michael's name in hieroglyphics. It just seems like a lot of detail for something that maybe didn't even happen.
 
Although a nice theory, I agree that it’s very unlikely. Not only would fans have mentioned it at some point over the years, but there would have, at the very least, been a photograph from that show that would have been published or made available at some point.

Or some form of recording or newspaper article that mentions it. There is nothing of the sort, apart from this guy’s recollection, which is insufficient, in my opinion.
 
dethorro said:
Although a nice theory, I agree that it’s very unlikely. Not only would fans have mentioned it at some point over the years, but there would have, at the very least, been a photograph from that show that would have been published or made available at some point.

Or some form of recording or newspaper article that mentions it. There is nothing of the sort, apart from this guy’s recollection, which is insufficient, in my opinion.
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I mean if you really think of it, why would there have been a photograph or a news paper article that mentions if it was just another song on the set list? What would make that more noteworthy than Man In The Mirror, Black Or White or Heal The World? There’s next to no info/footage or audio recordings of June 30th. Of course now in hindsight, from our perspective, Remember The Time on the Dangerous Tour is very rare, but back then it would have been just a song on the set list.

Just my two cents. I really, really hope it’s true.
 
As fans, we are worried about whether or not there's a recording of it rather than if he did it or not, im sure there's a dress rehearsal recording somewhere that could fufill that need to see him properly perform the song.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Of course now in hindsight, from our perspective, Remember The Time on the Dangerous Tour is very rare, but back then it would have been just a song on the set list.
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I totally agree with this. Even hardcore fans couldn't have known RTT being an one-time-only performance; unless he/she would have attened multiple venues/dates of concerts including the very one where RTT was (allegedly) performed. As I've said, no internet, no fan forums back then.
 
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