2001 Special Edition vs. Original Album Masters

[MoeJack]

Hey guys, I had a question regarding the 2001 special edition releases of 'Off the Wall', 'Thriller', 'Bad', and 'Dangerous'. I've read over the years that there are significant differences between these remasters and the original pressings of the albums. I'm aware of the obvious changes like the spoken intro to IJCSLY being removed, but I was wondering what were some of the other subtle changes that were made by Michael compared to the original releases?

 

[innuendo141]

Not sure if they were brickwalled or just made louder, but I do prefer some older CD pressings, namely Bad and Dangerous. Just dont sound as loud and just sound better for me

 

[mj_frenzy]

Hey guys, I had a question regarding the 2001 special edition releases of 'Off the Wall', 'Thriller', 'Bad', and 'Dangerous'. I've read over the years that there are significant differences between these remasters and the original pressings of the albums. I'm aware of the obvious changes like the spoken intro to IJCSLY being removed, but I was wondering what were some of the other subtle changes that were made by Michael compared to the original releases?

I have to admit that I found it very strange that few previous sound glitches still exist in those 2001 remasters (such as, in ‘Give In To Me’ at two different time points), or they even appeared for the first time (!) on those 2001 remasters (click sound on the ‘Bad’ track at 0:06, for example).

Anyway, the ‘Off The Wall’ 2001 remaster edition has been described by many people as sounding pretty good (& probably even better than the original 1979 pressing).

Not sure if they were brickwalled or just made louder, but I do prefer some older CD pressings, namely Bad and Dangerous. Just dont sound as loud and just sound better for me

I think the loudness issue you mentioned (that often comes at the expense of the originals’ sonic quality) has to do mainly with the portable music devices that have set a maximum sound limit (imposed by EU regulations). So, when record companies remastered those albums at that time, they put emphasis on more loudness in order for those albums to sound loud enough in those portable devices.

 

[MoeJack]

Not sure if they were brickwalled or just made louder, but I do prefer some older CD pressings, namely Bad and Dangerous. Just dont sound as loud and just sound better for me

What does brickwalled mean?

Anyway, the ‘Off The Wall’ 2001 remaster edition has been described by many people as sounding pretty good (& probably even better than the original 1979 pressing).


I think the loudness issue you mentioned (that often comes at the expense of the originals’ sonic quality) has to do mainly with the portable music devices that have set a maximum sound limit (imposed by EU regulations). So, when record companies remastered those albums at that time, they put emphasis on more loudness in order for those albums to sound loud enough in those portable devices.

Mmm I see. That’s interesting. What about with regards to the mixes? I've heard that on some tracks different mixes were used from the original pressings..

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Brickwalling is when the the waveform is made so loud that the peaks need to be clipped and compression is added to make it louder without going over the limit imposed by digital audio. It often reduces sound quality.

 

[HIStoric]

Funnily enough, the article image for the Wikipedia article for the Loudness War, is of Black or White. Not the 2001 Special Edition mind you, but it should help clarify things for some people

(@MoeJack, notice how the waveform for the Ultimate Collection's master looks almost like a square, like a "brick" so to speak? Hence "brickwalled").

 

[MoeJack]

I remember reading somewhere that there were variations in the mixes used for songs like 'Rock with You' and 'Baby Be Mine', etc.

 

[HIStoric]

^^I heard something about that too, but I don't know so I can't comment. What I do know is that, like every release post-1988, the Special addition has the updated mixes of the Bad album. Many of the songs on the Bad album were remixed again in 1988, so there are subtle differences (i.e. From 1988ish onwards, no trumpets on Bad until the final chorus or so. Smooth Criminal sounds a bit different too).

 

[MoeJack]

^^I heard something about that too, but I don't know so I can't comment. What I do know is that, like every release post-1988, the Special addition has the updated mixes of the Bad album. Many of the songs on the Bad album were remixed again in 1988, so there are subtle differences (i.e. From 1988ish onwards, no trumpets on Bad until the final chorus or so. Smooth Criminal sounds a bit different too).

Yea, I remember reading/hearing about that as well at some point. Apparently he continued to tweak some of those songs, especially after he began the Bad World Tour and got a feel for how some of those songs sounded live. I wonder if there is a list of changes that folks have noticed between the originals and the remasters. I've had the special editions since they came out over a decade ago but it's never really occurred to me that they had been tweaked from the original releases. I think I also read somewhere that the bridge on Human Nature was slightly different from the original mix. Subtle things like that I find quite fascinating and I wonder if we have any insight as to why certain changes were made.

 

[innuendo141]

Yea, I remember reading/hearing about that as well at some point. Apparently he continued to tweak some of those songs, especially after he began the Bad World Tour and got a feel for how some of those songs sounded live. I wonder if there is a list of changes that folks have noticed between the originals and the remasters. I've had the special editions since they came out over a decade ago but it's never really occurred to me that they had been tweaked from the original releases. I think I also read somewhere that the bridge on Human Nature was slightly different from the original mix. Subtle things like that I find quite fascinating and I wonder if we have any insight as to why certain changes were made.

The different bridge was in a Japanese single release, not the original album as far as I recall. The original Thriller LP has a different mix of Billie Jean, with the most noticable differences, although subtle at the lines "she called me to her room, hey-ay" in the horns.

The original LP versions of Rock With You and Get On The Floor don't have handclaps, ie. in Rock With You, the versionw e are used to go goes "I Wanna Rock With You [CLAP!] all night, Dance you in[CLAP]to the, sunlight" where as it is just the regular snare drum alone in the original version.

The bad differences are the most noticable, the horns during the chorus of bad, the lack of ad libs in The Way You Make Me Feel, the lack of breathing and different sounds in Smooth Criminal, the intro of I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

Noticable mention to the original LP version of Torture which doesn't have Jackie's ad libs. That album as a whole sounds glorious on vinyl. It makes the album sound less "80s effects" and more musical.

The recent 2016 vinyl release of Off The Wall is quite nice as it has the single mixes of Rock With You and the updated Get On The Floor, which I think are better than the original versions, but it's nice to have both. Whereas I have Bad 25 on vinyl and it is a mere shadow of what the original BAD LP sounds like, which is magnificent and glorious and all things nice.

Despite no changes in mixes, Dangerous on LP blows you away. The clarity is phenomenal. Not much better than the original CD release, but it is a different experience. Also, as I've said before, the re-mastered MOV version of Invincible also actually sounds like music and not computer generated noises all loudly stuffed together, making listening to Invincible a VERY enjoyable experience.

 

[Galactus123]

Funnily enough, the article image for the Wikipedia article for the Loudness War, is of Black or White. Not the 2001 Special Edition mind you, but it should help clarify things for some people

I remember seeing comparison like that with Bad. The original looked normal but the 2001 remaster was louder. Then the Bad 25 version was even louder.

 

[innuendo141]

I remember seeing comparison like that with Bad. The original looked normal but the 2001 remaster was louder. Then the Bad 25 version was even louder.

The Bad 25 version is just way too loud. It's become so muffled with noise.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

The Bad 25 version is just way too loud. It's become so muffled with noise.

Yeah I tried to listen to that some time ago (don't ask why, I have an original picture disc CD) and it was so compressed sounding and clipped sounding. The bass is so unnecessarily loud in the mix and it really doesn't sound good.

 

[MikeFann]

Relatedly, according to Chris Currell in one of his very informative articles on the making of Bad, Michael had him pretty much re-record the music track to Smooth Criminal in 1988. When they played this version for him later on, Michael danced around the room then said something like "Thank you. This is how it's supposed to sound!" and then left.

I am also curious about the how and why in regards to the new mixes.

 

[MoeJack]

The different bridge was in a Japanese single release, not the original album as far as I recall.

That's interesting. I wonder why they would even go through the trouble of doing that. Testing the market perhaps?

The lack of ad libs in The Way You Make Me Feel.

Iv'e just noticed that! I think I like the ad-libs more though. Gives the song better closure.