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Educational Lecture about Michael's 1997 show in Munich

He literally says at the beginning: “If you are a fan of the artist, I don’t recommend watching it. This WILL ruin the magic for you, which is not my goal.”

Whatever this disclaimer can mean, I don’t know, and perhaps don’t want to know because, well, I am “a fan of the artist,” so you what that means, I‘m not gonna waste two hours of my life sitting through someone picking apart the Munich 97 show, of all the shows to analyze (even if it’s “popular”). Even the description says, “We go over the many artistic failures in the work itself but this is more of a lesson about how to take an event that is unwatchable in person and make it look like a success on television. This is also a class in why Las Vegas style entertainment doesn't translate well outside of a showroom.”

Bad impressions all around. Just a waste of time. Simple as that.
 
I've watched the first 25 mins and found it really interesting. Definitely want to watch the rest. I haven't had time to find out who the guy is but it sounds like he's in the industry, designing shows etc. He looks at the show objectively, commenting on what he thinks works in the setting of a huge stadium. He's not looking at Michael's performance, he's more interested in the stage props, special effects etc.

I never saw Michael live because stadium shows don't interest me. Perhaps that's why I'm finding this to be so interesting. The reservations he has about the design of the show are exactly the things that would put me off going to a stadium show. I did see TII multiple times and loved it and thought the show looked amazing. The production values seemed to be much higher than on Michael's stadium shows. The whole thing seemed very coherent and looked a million dollars. Beautiful, visually interesting, a wonderful flow to the whole thing. It was very theatrical, a lot of detail. The lighting was great. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I saw that I didn't like (apart from having kittens when I saw the bit about the bed in Dirty Diana - a ring of fire all around the bed? Fire? Really?)

From what I've heard in this video so far, the guy isn't criticising Michael as an artist. In fact, one of his main points seems to be that, because he thinks the design of the show isn't as good as it needs to be, it isn't showing Michael in his best light. He's saying that much of Michael's genius is being lost. He only comments on Michael's performance when he feels that the staging of the show is detracting from what Michael is doing.
 
For me a concert should feel warm and intimate , not cold and distances on a stage whee you can get lost on. I need to see the backing singers and band on stage, not somewhere in the back obscured by darkness. That is why I will always like all the shows he did up until the Victory tour a lot better (they're also way more energetic and live but that has been discusses to death by now)
 
zinniabooklover said:
I've watched the first 25 mins and found it really interesting. Definitely want to watch the rest. I haven't had time to find out who the guy is but it sounds like he's in the industry, designing shows etc. He looks at the show objectively, commenting on what he thinks works in the setting of a huge stadium. He's not looking at Michael's performance, he's more interested in the stage props, special effects etc.

I never saw Michael live because stadium shows don't interest me. Perhaps that's why I'm finding this to be so interesting. The reservations he has about the design of the show are exactly the things that would put me off going to a stadium show. I did see TII multiple times and loved it and thought the show looked amazing. The production values seemed to be much higher than on Michael's stadium shows. The whole thing seemed very coherent and looked a million dollars. Beautiful, visually interesting, a wonderful flow to the whole thing. It was very theatrical, a lot of detail. The lighting was great. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I saw that I didn't like (apart from having kittens when I saw the bit about the bed in Dirty Diana - a ring of fire all around the bed? Fire? Really?)

From what I've heard in this video so far, the guy isn't criticising Michael as an artist. In fact, one of his main points seems to be that, because he thinks the design of the show isn't as good as it needs to be, it isn't showing Michael in his best light. He's saying that much of Michael's genius is being lost. He only comments on Michael's performance when he feels that the staging of the show is detracting from what Michael is doing.
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Oh!Thank you!
I understand the video better now . I can see it in a new light now :0 Thanks :D
Yup,the lecture is definetly interesting
 
filmandmusic said:
For me a concert should feel warm and intimate , not cold and distances on a stage whee you can get lost on. I need to see the backing singers and band on stage, not somewhere in the back obscured by darkness. That is why I will always like all the shows he did up until the Victory tour a lot better (they're also way more energetic and live but that has been discusses to death by now)
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I definetly agree
 
filmandmusic said:
For me a concert should feel warm and intimate , not cold and distances on a stage whee you can get lost on. I need to see the backing singers and band on stage, not somewhere in the back obscured by darkness. That is why I will always like all the shows he did up until the Victory tour a lot better (they're also way more energetic and live but that has been discusses to death by now)
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I have problems with the whole concept of stadium shows. I can hardly see the point of them. I don't know how you solve that problem when it comes to Michael because he was so big he could only ever play stadiums. I've looked at his tour lists and he did sometimes play arenas. Presumably that's because in a particular city where he wanted to go that was the biggest venue available. But, yeah, mostly stadiums.

Once I've finished watching this video I'm gonna see if the guy has done any others. He must have, this is clearly a training video for people in the industry (or wanting to go into it). It would be interesting to see what he says about a Madonna show. I don't have any interest in her but she does play those big stadiums. Could be interesting.

I actually don't think stadiums serve Michael well for the type of performer he was but, again, I have no idea how you solve that problem. He could hardly play 14 shows (or whatever) in place of one stadium show. That's not practical.

I know what you mean about the backing band being lost in the shadows. I hate it. One reason I love the video for Give In To Me so much is seeing Michael surrounded by a band. I know it's all fake, it's just for the video. Muzz Skillings wasn't even on the record, or Gilbey Clarke, for that matter. I don't care. I love the way it looks, seeing Michael as part of a proper band. It's just so lovely.
 
PurpleThriller said:
Oh!Thank you!
I understand the video better now . I can see it in a new light now :0 Thanks :D
Yup,the lecture is definetly interesting
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I have every intention of watching all of it so I'm grateful that you posted it. This is not the sort of thing I would ever find online myself. The guy has opinions that some fans would not like. There are aspects of the show that he describes as 'tacky'. I can easily imagine some fans would hate that. I can see what he's getting at. And, you know, it's an opinion. Other opinions are available, lol. But I'm really enjoying it.

One major objection he has with this early part of the show is that it doesn't come over as coherent. And I agree. Full disclosure - often I can't get through an entire song with HWT.

I'll see how I feel about it once I've watched the whole thing but I think as an exercise in objective analysis of stage props, stage effects, what story are you trying to tell in how a show is staged, I think he has some valid points.
 
zinniabooklover said:
I have every intention of watching all of it so I'm grateful that you posted it. This is not the sort of thing I would ever find online myself. The guy has opinions that some fans would not like. There are aspects of the show that he describes as 'tacky'. I can easily imagine some fans would hate that. I can see what he's getting at. And, you know, it's an opinion. Other opinions are available, lol. But I'm really enjoying it.

One major objection he has with this early part of the show is that it doesn't come over as coherent. And I agree. Full disclosure - often I can't get through an entire song with HWT.

I'll see how I feel about it once I've watched the whole thing but I think as an exercise in objective analysis of stage props, stage effects, what story are you trying to tell in how a show is staged, I think he has some valid points.
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Yup :D It is interesting :D I still wonder,what does tacky mean ?:0
Btw,pls don't give me all the credit ,it was in my recommended videos list :) I would never found it on my own either :0
 
PurpleThriller said:
Yup :D It is interesting :D I still wonder,what does tacky mean ?:0
Btw,pls don't give me all the credit ,it was in my recommended videos list :) I would never found it on my own either :0
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Quick update.

Less sure about this guy now. I thought his focus was the staging of it but now he seems to be critiquing the actual show, I mean, like set list etc. Also seems to be assessing the film of the show. So he's throwing 3 different things together which I'm not convinced makes sense. You could certainly critique the film of the show, for example. I don't like the way HBO filmed the Bucharest gig. I didn't like their camera work or the editing. So that would be my criticism of that. But that would be totally separate from any opinion of the actual show. It makes no sense to shove those two things together.

Criticising the set list and the show itself is also fine. If you are a professional music critic and you know what you're doing. Which this guy isn't and doesn't.

So I'm wondering if I got that wrong. Haven't looked him up yet. But am now questioning whether he IS in the industry or if he's just a motormouth with a YT channel. I really did think this was a training video but now I'm not so sure. He seems to be all over the place.

I'm not sure it's so much about him 'hating' on Michael. I'm beginning to think he's just a bit full of himself. I'll watch some more, see what happens. I did think he had some valid points in the early part of this. I don't think HWT is Michael's finest moment for live performances and I think it could be argued that there are signs that Michael was driving through some of his ideas when it might have been better if someone could have said to him, 'No, Michael'.

I'll plough on for a bit longer.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Quick update.

Less sure about this guy now. I thought his focus was the staging of it but now he seems to be critiquing the actual show, I mean, like set list etc. Also seems to be assessing the film of the show. So he's throwing 3 different things together which I'm not convinced makes sense. You could certainly critique the film of the show, for example. I don't like the way HBO filmed the Bucharest gig. I didn't like their camera work or the editing. So that would be my criticism of that. But that would be totally separate from any opinion of the actual show. It makes no sense to shove those two things together.

Criticising the set list and the show itself is also fine. If you are a professional music critic and you know what you're doing. Which this guy isn't and doesn't.

So I'm wondering if I got that wrong. Haven't looked him up yet. But am now questioning whether he IS in the industry or if he's just a motormouth with a YT channel. I really did think this was a training video but now I'm not so sure. He seems to be all over the place.

I'm not sure it's so much about him 'hating' on Michael. I'm beginning to think he's just a bit full of himself. I'll watch some more, see what happens. I did think he had some valid points in the early part of this. I don't think HWT is Michael's finest moment for live performances and I think it could be argued that there are signs that Michael was driving through some of his ideas when it might have been better if someone could have said to him, 'No, Michael'.

I'll plough on for a bit longer.
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It is really getting weird,I agree.
 
Keep us updated as you go. I’m not going to spend 2 hours on a show I don’ t actually like myself :p
 
Rocketeer said:
Even the description says, “We go over the many artistic failures in the work itself but this is more of a lesson about how to take an event that is unwatchable in person and make it look like a success on television. This is also a class in why Las Vegas style entertainment doesn't translate well outside of a showroom.”
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That’s funny because it’s usually fans who have not had the opportunity to see this show live who strongly dislike it, not the other way around. I have not watched the video and I don’t intend to, but this guy doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about.
 
dethorro said:
That’s funny because it’s usually fans who have not had the opportunity to see this show live who strongly dislike it, not the other way around. I have not watched the video and I don’t intend to, but this guy doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about.
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I highly doubt I'm gonna get to the end of it. I did jump to the end and he did say one thing that made me howl with laughter. He made some specious point and then said if he could have a conversation with Michael about it he's sure Michael would get the point he was making. Something like that.

He did have the kernel of some OK points early on so I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, no, I misjudged it.
 
@PurpleThriller @filmandmusic

Gah. This guy. Cannot listen to any more. I'm done.

PurpleThriller, next time, don't listen to me. Just go with your instincts. I don't care whether he's in the industry or not. Although I do now highly doubt that. Just, gah!!

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

As you were, people. :ROFLMAO:
 
Thanks for saving 2 hours of my life :)
I usually don't mind listening to critique of Michale the performer unless it turns personal. But it has to come from someone who knows what they are talking about.
I have laughed over so many stage mistakes (with love) that get highlighted on the videos, and don't get me started on the whole magic trick stuff.
 
zinniabooklover said:
@PurpleThriller @filmandmusic

Gah. This guy. Cannot listen to any more. I'm done.

PurpleThriller, next time, don't listen to me. Just go with your instincts. I don't care whether he's in the industry or not. Although I do now highly doubt that. Just, gah!!

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

As you were, people. :ROFLMAO:
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Yup. The uploader definetly seeks attention. Sad ..
 
dethorro said:
That’s funny because it’s usually fans who have not had the opportunity to see this show live who strongly dislike it, not the other way around. I have not watched the video and I don’t intend to, but this guy doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about.
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His attempt of seeking attention or making us angry failed . Why would someone waste 2 hours of their life hating on Michael Jackson?0_0
 
Hiker said:
Thanks for saving 2 hours of my life :)
I usually don't mind listening to critique of Michale the performer unless it turns personal. But it has to come from someone who knows what they are talking about.
I have laughed over so many stage mistakes (with love) that get highlighted on the videos, and don't get me started on the whole magic trick stuff.
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Exactly so.

I don't mind listening to a critique of Michael's work because I might hear something interesting. My faith in Michael's work is strong enough that I'm not gonna get derailed by a negative viewpoint. And this dude seemed to be flagging up some potential interesting points early on. There were a couple of little alarm bells ringing (his use of the word 'tacky' seemed strange if he really was an industry professional; some of his comments went up a dead end - yes, a stadium probably isn't the perfect venue to enjoy Michael's specific talents but whaddya gonnna do? The man was a superstar, there was nowhere else for him to go) but I thought I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt. And he made a couple of points that he could actually have built on. Because HWT isn't perfect and you could have an interesting discussion about where it could have been tightened up or whatever.

But, no, it was not to be. I didn't bother to look the guy up. Not interested.

Onwards and upwards. :D
 
Total hogwash!

I skipped parts of the video to get an idea of the tone and at every section he was using every opportunity to criticise Michaels efforts.

The first comment I heard was that Michael didn’t tour America with History because nobody would pay to see him. Even if he did they would be sheds as he wouldn’t be able to fill stadiums.. But as he has cult following within the rest of world they’d pay to see him do anything. Exceptionally rude and cements his likely belief that the states are the central universe.

He then stated that while his moves are amazing they are boring?

The cherry picker made him look like a caged animal and a 15yr old tik-toker could have done better..

I mean.. there is being constructive with criticism but most of his comments were just ridiculous.

I see that he’s turned off the comments so he’s probably been hit with a barrage of abuse!
 
SeeingVoices said:
Total hogwash!

I skipped parts of the video to get an idea of the tone and at every section he was using every opportunity to criticise Michaels efforts.

The first comment I heard was that Michael didn’t tour America with History because nobody would pay to see him. Even if he did they would be sheds as he wouldn’t be able to fill stadiums.. But as he has cult following within the rest of world they’d pay to see him do anything. Exceptionally rude and cements his likely belief that the states are the central universe.

He then stated that while his moves are amazing they are boring?

The cherry picker made him look like a caged animal and a 15yr old tik-toker could have done better..

I mean.. there is being constructive with criticism but most of his comments were just ridiculous.

I see that he’s turned off the comments so he’s probably been hit with a barrage of abuse!
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I missed the caged animal part:0
What a horrible thing to say 0_0
 
SeeingVoices said:
Total hogwash!

I skipped parts of the video to get an idea of the tone and at every section he was using every opportunity to criticise Michaels efforts.

The first comment I heard was that Michael didn’t tour America with History because nobody would pay to see him. Even if he did they would be sheds as he wouldn’t be able to fill stadiums.. But as he has cult following within the rest of world they’d pay to see him do anything. Exceptionally rude and cements his likely belief that the states are the central universe.

He then stated that while his moves are amazing they are boring?

The cherry picker made him look like a caged animal and a 15yr old tik-toker could have done better..

I mean.. there is being constructive with criticism but most of his comments were just ridiculous.

I see that he’s turned off the comments so he’s probably been hit with a barrage of abuse!
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Jeez. I think this guy needs some therapy or something. I didn't hear any of this. For which I'm grateful. Me and my blood pressure.

I'm not even gonna address any of this since it's all garbage 🤮 Although, ngl, loved that comment about Michael's dance moves being amazing and yet so boring. Gotta love those mental gymnastics, lol.

The things some people will do for attention.
 
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