Chimp Expert Jane Goodall -- Bubbles Was Beaten On Michael Jackson's Watch

Why does she still list Heal The World as her favorite song?? http://www.janegoodall.org/study-corner-janes-favorites

Why did she speak nicely of him after he died and saying how much he loved chimps?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0H_1-Yoyo (And she admits she never saw Michael and Bubbles together - so she never witnessed anything.) She also says he was like a very sweet and gentile child.

And why is she such a hypocrite now??? Sigh.... Suddenly, years later after he has died, he's turned into a mean abuser.:ph34r:

Maybe she is mixing up Joe with Michael.
 
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^^The Joe part is funny. About why she did this after praising him before^^: Could it be that she is still mad that Michael did not make the song for the chimps or that she is a typical Michael back stabber? The only person who could shed some light on this is Jane or the people in her research foundation. Maybe she is throwing dirt on Michael so people will not focus on the problems in her book which she had to put on hold to complete all the citations. Since no one from her camp is talking we might not find out. What I expect is that some time in the future she will be at a function or maybe a book signing and someone will bring it up. Let's see what she has to say then.

I wonder if Jane is going through that life change that happens to the elderly in which they dwell on certain negative behaviors in the news or connected to their work and then in their mind it becomes real as though it happened. I know my mom used to work in the health profession, and many of the elderly she worked with would talk about XYZ was trying to kill them, or they would dwell on all the negative news and claim their docs were doing all kinds of bad things to them. Now my mom is in her 80s, and this year, my sister told me that when she visited my mom last year, my mom said I tried to kill her way back in 2008. She was very serious too and was mad that my sister did not believe her. Yet she is quite eloquent and lives on her own. I wonder if something like that is happening to Jane where because she knows animals have been illtreated and dealt with this problem all her life, now that she is in her 80s these negative things are in her thoughts a lot. Since she visited the chimp recently could it be that her mind connected the chimp and its owner to that negative idea in her mind as though it is real? Oh well....

Jamba I learned about the seahorses too, but I can't remember how I found out.
 
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Our Evolution
History & Evolution of Big Cat Rescue
By: Carole Baskin, Founder of Big Cat Rescue

Big Cat Rescue did not start out as what it has become today. My beliefs, and the sanctuary that reflects them, evolved over time. It involved lessons that came from what I view today as horrible mistakes, and sometimes I feel terrible about how long some realizations took. But I take great pride in what we have become and are accomplishing, and feel great excitement about what I believe we will accomplish in the future.

As detailed in How We Started, the sanctuary began when the search to purchase a pet bobcat kitten brought us unwittingly to a “fur farm” that sold a few cats as pets, but primarily raised them to turn into fur coats. We bought all 56 kittens to save them from being slaughtered.

To learn how to take care of the cats we naturally turned to those who would know, the breeders and owners of exotic cats. Under this influence, initially we believed what you will still hear from the breeders and owners today, i.e. that these cats should be owned privately to “preserve the species,” that they make good pets if properly raised and trained, and that they are safe if you know how to handle them. Our own experience until then with Windsong, my original pet bobcat, had not conflicted with these notions despite the much greater effort she required than a domestic cat. But she had not reached maturity at that point.

Believing as we did that the cats were suitable pets, our plan was to sell and give away as many of the fur farm kittens as we could to what we expected to be good homes. There was no “profit” to be had, but the proceeds of sales helped offset some of the thousands we had spent purchasing and now caring for the cats.

The next four years were a time of enormous work caring for the cats, learning about their needs, learning about the world of exotic pet dealing and ownership, learning about the issues the cats face in the wild, and a gradual but dramatic evolutionary change in my thinking and beliefs. The change occurred as our experience grew. These years also became a time of personal challenge as my husband Don showed signs of mental deterioration, possibly related to brain damage suffered in a small plane crash years before.

As we attended animal auctions, we observed that many of the bidders were taxidermists. They would bid on the animals that went for low prices. Typically these were the ones in the worst condition. Then they would take them into the parking lot and club them to death before taking them home to mount. So we started outbidding them to save the cats we could from that fate. Usually the cats were in poor condition. We would nurse them back to health, then offer them to buyers who we hoped would give them good homes.

Other cats were purchased to get them out of bad conditions or save them from certain death. For instance, we first saw Sarabi the lioness as a five week old cub at an auction where the owners were obviously feeding her curdled milk that she was struggling to spit out. We could not stand to watch and bought her.

Then, during these years we increasingly found that cats we had thought we placed in good homes were not “working out.” People called asking if we would take them back. With rare exceptions we did, because we could not bear the thought of the alternatives. Then, at an auction, I saw a lynx I was sure I recognized as a kitten that I had nurtured and kept alive until we had sold him as a pet. He was thin, scared, and clearly recognized me.

As these experiences multiplied during these years, it became increasingly obvious that many of the cats at the auctions were really abandoned pets. People would get them as young kittens, they would be reasonably manageable for a couple of years, then become problematic as they matured. Or people would buy them not realizing how much work they were and discard them before they matured.

I began reading and hearing about “high mortality rates” for exotic pets, particularly in their first year. This was consistent with the many calls I got from people with kittens that were dying. Much of this happens very early in their lives. In order to get a cat to “bond” with a person, the kittens are typically taken from the mothers shortly after birth. The person becomes the mother, but without the instincts and equipment to be. When we receive orphaned kittens from the wild today, like Faith, a Florida bobcat, and Aries, Artemis and Orion, the cougar cubs from Idaho whose mother was shot by a hunter, the scariest and riskiest time is those early weeks, even for those of us who have extensive experience with the kittens. And these orphaned cats from the wild at least had the advantage of a few weeks of the mother’s milk and care. One frequent cause of death is the owners’ lack of knowledge about how to properly bottle feed them. This leads to milk in their lungs. The cats can die of aspiration (drowning) from the fluid, or with smaller amounts last long enough to contract fatal pneumonia.

As I learned first hand how difficult and expensive it was to give these cats what I viewed as a good home, and I saw how many ended up in bad circumstances or were abandoned, I came to feel that people should be discouraged from getting them as pets. In 1994 I wrote a 100 page book, and 1995 made a home video, about caring for the cats and what it was like to have them as pets. I felt people who wanted the cats as pets were not likely to read or view something that tried to convince them not to do so. But if they saw how much work it was, it would discourage the people who were most likely to abandon them from getting them at all, and at least give those exotic cats who were purchased as pets a chance to be treated in a way that would allow them to survive. We keep the chapters of the book on our website for the same reason today.

In addition to buying cats, we had started breeding some cats under the misguided notion that this was a way to “preserve the species.” A few of our cats were purchased with this in mind, although invariably we were also giving them a home far better than what they were destined for if we did not purchase them. I had not then figured out what seems so obvious to me today, that breeding for life in a cage an animal that was meant to roam free was inherently cruel, and that most of the “homes” these animals would end up in were places where they would live in unsuitable conditions. We believe these cats should not be pets.

We also stopped purchasing cats as a way to rescue them. Aside from the financial constraints, I had come to realize that however well intentioned we had been, by purchasing the cats we were supporting the brokers and breeders that were creating so much suffering. The only exception to this policy involved our fishing cats in 1998. I was called by a broker because he had two fishing cats he said were dying and asked if I wanted them. When I got there, I found Pisces gasping and close to death. When I said I would take them, he said I had to buy them. I could not walk away and let them die, so despite our desperate finances I paid for them. That was the last time I fell into that trap, and the last cat we purchased to save it

Since then the cats we have taken in have all been either found, orphaned, or relinquished by owners who either could or would not continue to care for them or, in the case of our circus tigers, were sent by the one circus responsible enough to provide a retirement home for their cats at the end of their careers. For instance, Faith, the Florida bobcat cub, was found at five weeks old in a parking lot north of Tampa. She would not have been alone if the mother had not been killed. Cameron and Zabu, our male lion and white tigress, came from a roadside zoo when the husband of the couple operating it died and the wife could not keep it going. Cougar cubs Aries, Artemis and Orion, at four weeks old, came from Idaho after a hunter shot their mother. Idaho does not allow carnivores to be rehabilitated and released and because they are not native to any other state they could never go free.

Since those early years the sanctuary has pursued its vision of ending the abuse and abandonment of captive exotic animals and promoting preservation of the species in the wild. We do this by being an “educational sanctuary” with the dual mission of (a) giving our cats the best care we can while (b) educating the public on the plight of these animals so that some day there will be no need for a sanctuary to exist.

Increasingly the plight of these wonderful animals is resonating with the general public. As a result, recently our efforts, and those of others like us, to encourage laws forbidding breeding and exotic pet ownership have met with escalating success. State after state has passed laws banning ownership of big cats. They vary in effectiveness largely due to what “exemptions” from the law are allowed. But, the trend in state law and public opinion is clear. In 2012, working with a coalition of other animal protection organizations, a federal bill banning possession and breeding except in very limited circumstances was passed.

As we have become a leading and very visible voice not only in support of such legislation, but being asked by legislators to help draft the bills, the breeders, exotic pet owners and exhibitors have attacked me. Lacking substantive arguments in support of their beliefs and activities, which I believe are based on selfish enjoyment of having the animals and/or financial gain, they have spent considerable energy attacking me personally and our sanctuary.

They claim we hide the activities from our early years that you have read about here, which obviously we do not and we never have. While I am not proud that it took me years of seeing increasing amounts of abuse to reverse the beliefs that I accepted as a novice, I believe the experience from those years has been heavily responsible for the success we have been having. I understand the thinking of the pet trade because I was part of it. I believe we are more credible as a source of objective information specifically because we came from the place in which our opponents remain entrenched

I genuinely hope that over time their thinking will change the way mine has done

I find this very interesting they went from believing you could have wild cats as pets but learned from their mistakes and now educate people that it´s wrong.I believe it´s a journey many exotic petowners have done and wants to lleave their animals to a sanctuary.

It´s also interesting if zoo saves endangered species and the animals have to live in surroundings they are not supposed to live in.

For example elephants need to walk but they are kept in small places , many are standing on standing on concrete or hard compacted dirt.
It gives them trouble with arthritis and infections in the feet and they use to live shorter lifes.

You can´t release a chimp like Bubbles in the wild and sanctuaries/zoos are needed. But the animals need space there and to live as natural as possible.

Zoos want to earn money so they want people to come for visit-and pay for it- people want to see something cute, cubs.
So they let animals have cubs in the beginning of the summer and kill them in the autumn.
I don´t think it´s right to let some animals be killed and some to be saved.
Born to amuse for one summer...

I haven´t been to Big Cat Rescue but I love their videos and I think it´s cute to see adult cats play.

In the link http://www.lantrasforum.se/styled-3/index.html there is a list with endangered special breeds of cattle, goats, sheep, chickens.
It´s animals we used to have but for example the cows in the list didn´t give much milk so they are not needed now...

If different species of for example the cat family should be saved then "oldfashioned" cows, sheeps etc should be saved too.

From one thing to another have you read the books about Narnia?
Aslan-the special lion-creates a new world but some children happened to come there and together with them followed an evil watch.
It should be a world where animals and humans lived in harmony but it went wrong from the beginning.

Perhaps something went wrong in our world too , maybe we were supposed to live in harmony.
 
This Jane woman is known to lie. She is crazy in my book. I can understand wanting to look after animals but to lie on their owners for your own sake. give me a break. And she did NOT see this "abuse" herself, she is quoting Jack Gordon of all people. WHAT? She is quoting that conartist. Jack must be confusing what he did to Latoya to what he think MJ did to bubbles.
 
What I find funny about this story coming out is that MJ is accused of being the daddy of Miki Howard son which paints MJ is good light and many folks said they would be happy if MJ was that guy's fathers (he does look like MJ regardless if he is MJ's kid or not); and now after that story, someone wants to paint MJ as an animal abuser. It never fails.
 
What I find funny about this story coming out is that MJ is accused of being the daddy of Miki Howard son which paints MJ is good light and many folks said they would be happy if MJ was that guy's fathers (he does look like MJ regardless if he is MJ's kid or not); and now after that story, someone wants to paint MJ as an animal abuser. It never fails.

Why do you think that the portrayal of Michael as someone who would abandon his child puts him "in a good light"? Besides the fact that the Brandon Howard story is nothing but a dishonest PR stunt and is not true.
 
Why do you think that the portrayal of Michael as someone who would abandon his child puts him "in a good light"? Besides the fact that the Brandon Howard story is nothing but a dishonest PR stunt and is not true.

I think he meant that it would put Michael in a good light meaning that, if B Howard was Michael's son, it would mean that Michael definitely wasn't gay or asexual, and that he got around like any other hot-blooded straight male.

Of course, that aspect would get looked over, because it'd be too positive for Michael. :smilerolleyes: So they'd start focusing on the deadbeat dad and/or the fact that he looked after PPB whom people don't consider "his children".
 
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I think he meant that it would put Michael in a good light meaning that, if B Howard was Michael's son, it would mean that Michael definitely wasn't gay or asexual, and that he got around like any other hot-blooded male.

Of course, that aspect would get looked over, because it'd be too positive for Michael. :smilerolleyes: So they'd start focusing on the deadbeat dad and/or the fact that he looked after PPB whom people don't consider "his children".

I know what he meant. Michael wasn't gay or asexual but do you realize that it's pretty homophobic to say that it's better to be a deadbeat dad than gay? Michael does not need to be portrayed as a deadbeat dad to prove anything to anyone. This story is not "positive". It would mean that Michael had a child that he refused to claim and raise and that he did not leave anything to in his Will, unlike to his other three children. But of course, it's not true.
And by the way gay men are "hot-blooded males" as well.
 
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I know what he meant. Michael wasn't gay or asexual but do you realize that it's pretty homophobic to say that it's better to be a deadbeat dad than gay? Michael does not need to be portrayed as a deadbeat dad to prove anything to anyone. This story is not "positive". It would mean that Michael had a child that he refused to claim and raise and that he did not leave anything to in his Will, unlike to his other three children. But of course, it's not true.
And by the way gay men are "hot-blooded males" as well.

It wasn't my intention to make it sound like being a deadbeat dad was better than being gay, and I'm sorry for that. >.< My post was speaking in terms of the haters out there who always thought that he was gay or asexual, that this would have shut them up. Of course, knowing how haters work, they would've jumped on the deadbeat dad thing since they need to find another reason to keep hating. So yeah, in the end it definitely isn't positive.

And I probably should've worded the "hot-blooded" part a bit better... I'll fix that.
 
^^I thought when people used "hot-blooded male" traditionally, they meant the particular man loves women, likes to go after them, and is actively involved sexually in relationships with women? Has the phrase now been re-defined to mean males in active sexual relationships of any type. Also, this comment is not an attempt to get involved in gay bashing, to hurt others feelings, to cause strife. It is just a simple question about a phrase that people have used to mean something specific. You know like how marriage meant between man & woman, and now in society it could be man & man and woman & woman.

Amayafrom reading your post I did not get the feeling that you mean being a dead beat dad was better than being gay.
 
^^I thought when people used "hot-blooded male" traditionally, they meant the particular man loves women, likes to go after them, and is actively involved sexually in relationships with women? Has the phrase now been re-defined to mean males in active sexual relationships of any type. Also, this comment is not an attempt to get involved in gay bashing, to hurt others feelings, to cause strife. It is just a simple question about a phrase that people have used to mean something specific. You know like how marriage meant between man & woman, and now in society it could be man & man and woman & woman.

Amayafrom reading your post I did not get the feeling that you mean being a dead beat dad was better than being gay.

I agree with Snow White that the last couple of posts should be moved to the B.Howard thread, but since the question is here I'll answer here. Whenever I heard this "hot blooded male" or "red blooded male" type of comment it seemed always derogatory to gay men to me and always implicitly seems to suggest that heterosexual men are superior to gay men. Nothing against Amaya but since you asked: for example here what was said was that this story puts Michael in a good light because it would mean he was not gay. This implicitly does mean that being a deadbeat dad is better than being gay. If being a deadbeat dad is considered being "put in a good light" compared to being gay, then what else does it mean if not that being a deadbeat dad is better? Maybe Amaya has not meant it that way, but that's what it implicates.

Sorry Amaya, I do not want to go on about it, I'm just answering Petrarose's question.
 
^^But whenever I heard this phrase, and that was like way back when since the 70s it was NEVER said in the context of gay vs heterosexual. I don't know if lately people have shifted to do something like that, but traditionally this phrase was just used as the original poster used it meaning "men act this type of way, so you can't fault them--it is the way of the beast." Guys sometimes I think we are too sensitive.

Yes a lot of the posts in this thread belong elsewhere, and I have to say I helped cause this disturbance.
 
respect77;3971340 said:
She used to talk totally differently about MJ:

In a way, Michael Jackson’s monkey Bubbles would be the inspiration of one of the songs on his Dangerous album. In late 1990 leading primatology expert Jane Goodall would be invited by Michael to visit him in Neverland. Goodall, famous for her 50 years of groundbreaking research on chimpanzees in Africa, said Jackson invited her because "he loved what I did."

When challenged about how his own interest in these types of animals might make him appear “weird” later on Jackson would tell an interviewer, “God created animals. And they're loving; they're beautiful. I feel the way [anthropologist] Jane Goodall does or any of those naturalists. I don't find my interest in animals weird or strange at all.”

In 1988 Jane had actually turned down making an appearance at a PETA dinner where she was being honored because Bubbles would be present. PETA had named him an “animal rights ambassador” because of how Jackson had rescued him from a cancer research lab, but Goodall didn’t believe in keeping chimps as pets. PETA would defend Jackson and Bubbles with founder Ingrid Newkirk saying, "Seeing how intelligent and social he is, people can see why we have to leave chimps in the dignity of their natural environment," adding that, "[Bubbles] did have a good time at the dinner."

Goodall would say that she had heard through friends that Michael wanted to speak with her, but had not heard anything directly until Christmas 1990 when the telephone rang at her house and her mother answered, only to turn to her in shock and tell her that Michael Jackson was on the end of the line. Jane says that, “The first thing he said was, ‘You don’t approve of me having a pet chimp, do you?’ “I said, ‘No.’

Although she still disagreed with people keeping chimps as pets, they decided to overlook this difference in opinions, sharing a common idealism and a love of both children and chimpanzees, so she agreed to visit him at his ranch. It’s reported that he had also sought her advice on how to properly take care of the chimps he had, including Bubbles, who had apparently seemed discontent at the time, and that she had suggested fixing the chimp up with two females chimps and a kinder trainer. She would later say that keeping wild animals was slightly different for Jackson, "with the money and space he has he can create conditions on a par with any zoo."

Goodall said of her visit to Neverland in late 1990, “I got taken to my room, and then sat waiting for Michael. Classical music was playing. The views were magnificent. I sat, feeling the whole experience was surreal. After a while, I heard a small voice. I turned and there was Michael. We said hello and he asked if I would like a drive through the ranch. At the time there were many animals there.” She remembers seeing a large swan swimming in a children's pool, waiting as a larger pond was being constructed for it, his long python, Muscles, some giraffes, and two beautiful black horses she says he’d already had harnessed for her in case she wanted to ride.

While driving across the ranch together he began to sing softly, but then suddenly, he stopped. She asked him to continue singing, and was surprised when he told her that he was too shy. “I pointed out that when he was on stage he was anything but shy.” He told her that when he was on stage, “there was magic. He let the magic come at him and take him over, he became another person.” Goodall said she told him that she could relate to that, “It was the same thing that happened to me when I was working with animals.” She says that he pointed out areas to her where giraffes and other animals moved about freely, “He seemed very happy in his new home.” He told her about his plans for the ranch, "he talked about his dreams for the place to have animals running, looking free like they would in the wild. ... It was just a very charming day, very low key, nobody else was there.” At some point Jane said that Jackson had even done a little home footage with her at the ranch together with him, just to keep for himself.

Then he told her that he would take her to “my children’s rooms.” He lead her to a room full of toys and games which he told her was his son’s room. “When we reached the miniature train set, Michael sat on the floor and tried to start it for me, but something went wrong and out came a cloud of smoke. He quickly turned it off laughing.” Then she said he took her to "his daughter's room", which was full of dolls and gowns. She congratulated him on the birth of his upcoming daughter and says that at this he started laughing. "I have no son and no daughter," he told her, "But you believed I did!" She told him that she’d thought it could be true, spending much of her time in Africa she was out of touch with mainstream celebrity news. Jane would say, “He seemed very funny.” He would explain to her, “I will have a son and a daughter someday,” and that these were the rooms he’d created for them. Michael had also shown these bedrooms for his future children to Ryan White’s mother Jeanne who would say that she’d seen other celebrities express similar desires for children in this way, "It was not to be the last time that I would come upon a rich, famous man longing for the comfort of a family of his own."

Jane says that he then lead her into a room full of all sorts of lessons for children with chemical experiments, workbooks,”all the kind of material you would if you were teaching children.” Michael told her that he wanted to give her the opportunity to teach many children what it was that she knew. "In some ways, he was like a child, and a very sweet and gentle child, and he wanted me to tell him many, many stories," she said. "Stories about the chimpanzees, the forests, animals, anything. He told me he liked the way I told stories."

“Later, we went to his own bed room. I had brought him a few small gifts: a stone with polished edges from a special beach in the Isle of Wight (an island off the south coast of England), a photo of my favorite chimpanzee, David Greybeard, one of my books and a video.”

Jane wanted to show him footage of chimps in a medical research laboratory that she had brought with her. “We lay in his bed together to watch, propped against pillows; I had to bend down and look behind a pile of pillows to see his face.” She says that as they watched the footage of these chimps in captivity at certain points she saw Michael smile. "But it's terrible," she said she’d told him, "So sad, how can you smile?" "It's his face," he’d told her, "I love their faces. They’re so much like us." She said it was obvious that, “he loved chimpanzees. He loved to watch them feeding. He liked their faces. They made him smile."

Then she asked him if he would be willing to help the chimpanzees. When he said yes, she suggested that if he wrote a song specifically for the chimpanzees, it could raise millions. He told her he would like to write such a song.
She left the next day, “My lasting impression of him was of a very sweet, bright, and lonely man.” Some time later, her friend Michael Aisner received a message saying that Michael had asked her if she could send him videos involving stories about animal cruelty. He wanted these tapes because "he wanted to be angry and cry" as he wrote the song. Goodall says, “Michael told me later that he had cried and could not sleep after seeing the reports.”

“The last time I saw Michael, Mr. Aisner and I were invited to his studio to hear the song. It was an early version of "Heal the World". Later, of course, the song had changed and became an anthem for children.”
Although the song would not be about animals and Goodall was disappointed that the proceeds did not go towards chimpanzees, Jackson would host a £500-a-seat Chimps’ Tea Party at Neverland in April of that year to raise money for Jane's ape research institute and a few weeks after that, at a fundraising gala he would pay for a $10,000 table even though he could not attend, as well as sending a videotaped message and a white fedora to be auctioned off in support of the Gombe chimps in Nigeria. At the end of the album there is a thanks to “Jane Goodall for her inspiration.” Though expressing her disappointment at the lack of funding from the sales of the song Jane still lists Heal The World among her favorite songs on her site

This song and his desire to make a difference would coalesce into his “Heal The World” foundation.

And Jack Gordon? Really TMZ? :doh:

It's stories like this that make me love this man as much as I do :wub:
 
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