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For Translation teams: Information, organization and discussions thread

JMie said:
I will still try to translate the summaries in full because I think it's important for non-english fans to know as many facts as possible. I can change something here and there (omit something, or add something I remember from the testimony that I think is interesting), but I personally don't want to translate press articles. In fact, since the start of the trial I avoid all media altogether, I don't even watch TV. We have the first-hand info and I don't want to turn to secondary sources.
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I avoid media as well, and I think not sticking with ivy's summaries will create a mess. I think I'm right when I'm saying that the summaries are meant as something independent with no spin like in the media. The problem though is that they are getting a bit long, so I don't know how to keep it up to date.

I thought about doing a summary of a summary for a moment, but that would take even longer. I'd have to read it, then make decisions on what I think is important (which is not really possible, every detail is important) and then write my own summary in my language. So instead I just started to translate the defense opening statement, there are not many "difficult" words in there, so it worked pretty "fluently". But it still takes time, because it is quite long. So ... I'm looking for more volunteers, desperately. PM me, soon. ;)

P.S. I had to edit this post several times I can't even type anymore.
 
Re: Translation teams information, organization and discussions thread

ivy said:
Our current plan is do daily summaries of the trial. We are aiming to finish and post them by midnight USA time. In this way our hopes are that European translators will have the daily summaries by the time they wake up. We will see if we can maintain this performance goals when the trial starts.

And a request : Your translations are posted on MJJCommunity Twitter. (We are also arranging to post them on the main website). Can the translators please write short headlines about the translation subject. So that I can copy them when posting your translations on twitter? Thank you.
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Hi Ivy I went back and edited all my posts so they would contain headlines, sorry I just saw this now.

also is it possible to align the text to the right? (in hebrew you read form right to left).
 
Align right ... look where it says B I U ... and then right next to that you can align text to left, right or center.

I'm thinking in German/English gibberish right now, so forgive me if I say confusing stuff from now on. ;)
 
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I am going away for two weeks and won't be able to translate. Morinen will step in starting Monday. Today's testimony will be translated by Wenghua and Snowflake!
 
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Ben and I agreed to each concentrate on respective threads. Ben is doing the translations and reports in the French thread, I am doing it in the Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian thread.

I said I am available to help Ben when she's not available, however, I myself am extremely busy and have difficulties to keep up with the translations on my own in the Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian thread. Luckily Giabaker proposed to help with B-C-S translations, but she's also often quite busy.

Right now I am doing the translations of the first day + Ortega's and Gongaware's testimonies, Giabaker will do the 2nd and the 3d day.

However I feel that due to our extremely busy schedules we'd need more available people around. So I hope that anyone who could translate into Bosnian or Croatian or Serbian will help. Thanks :)
 
Happy Translators Day, guys! Happy Translation Day! :D

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Ben said:
Do we get cake?

Between this and my job, I have 0 mn left to sleep. lol
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I'd be lost without the 2 other people on my team. Would probably have given up.

Happy Translation Day? Very funny!
 
Wenghua, I almost reported your post by mistake instead of clicking "Thanks". I'm so totally lost.
 
"Lost in Translation", duh. Happy Translator's Day!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Translation_Day

Just as our fingers were cracking from the umpteenth acronym and the question "how do you translate tour executive and 'he came to Carolwood' in an elegant, yet correct way... we celebrate today... hehehe.

Favorites: "Second Leg of the HIStory Tour", "editorial comments are inappropriate for either side" and 'Chernoff and XY went through specific doors of Carolwood." :rofl:
 
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Pace said:
"Lost in Translation", duh. Happy Translator's Day!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Translation_Day

Just as our fingers were cracking from the umpteenth acronym and the question "how do you translate tour executive and 'he came to Carolwood' in an elegant, yet correct way... we celebrate today... hehehe
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What? That is like an actual holiday? Wow. And yes, where is our cake?

I had real problems with translating some of the Kai Chase testimony, I'm totally not a cook and had no idea what all the food was that she mentioned. Had to google quite a bit, and I can't even spell half of the ingredients in German that she talked about.
 
What "spinach COBB salad" posed a problem?? Totally understand. "cobb", yeah...
I was wondering if Ms Chase cooked the beets for the juice- or was that juiced raw???

"Tuscan White Bean Soup"- Weisse Bohnensuppe a la Toskana?? lol, Bohnensuppe klingt ja nicht halb so aufregend, gebratener Tunfisch klingt auch nicht so heiss wie "seared Ahi-Tuna".
"Granola"- son olles Muesli, lolol.

I know, sometimes you have to get really creative when translating North American colloquialism, because certain things and they way they are done, don't really exist in other cultures. Und "Mittagspause", makes me cringe, but that what it says, lol. And *cringe* "morning session" sounds like personal business one should keep to oneself!! :ph34r::hysterical:
 
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Pace said:
What "spinach COBB salad" posed a problem?? Totally understand. "cobb", yeah...
I was wondering if Ms Chase cooked the beets for the juice- or was that juiced raw???

"Tuscan White Bean Soup"- Weisse Bohnensuppe a la Toskana?? lol, Bohnensuppe klingt ja nicht halb so aufregend, gebratener Tunfisch klingt auch nicht so heiss wie "seared Ahi-Tuna".
"Granola"- son olles Muesli, lolol.

I know, sometimes you have to get really creative when translating North American colloquialism, because certain things and they way they are done, don't really exist in other cultures. Und "Mittagspause", makes me cringe, but that what it says, lol. And *cringe* "morning session" sounds like personal business one should keep to oneself!! :ph34r::hysterical:
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I translated the Spinach Cobb salad as "gemischter Salat mit Spinat". Because that's what cobb salad seemed to be. Why you have to mention the spinach, when it's a "mixed salad" anyway, and not any of the other things in it, I don't know. And yep about the soup and the tuna salad - it's all pretty normal food, but for some reason chefs always have to call it by posh sounding names, lol. And I had never heard of almond milk before. Wonder what it tastes like and if we have it over here.
 
Almond milk is especially known to vegans, just like soy, and rice milk. Less creamy than cow milk, because muuuuch less fat.
 
I'm a vegetarian, but not vegan. Have to try and find a "Reformhaus", don't even know if there is one close to where I live. And Ben, that sounds pretty good actually, but also quite expensive!

My Great Seal Of California is silent.
 
Pace said:
What "spinach COBB salad" posed a problem?? Totally understand. "cobb", yeah...
I was wondering if Ms Chase cooked the beets for the juice- or was that juiced raw???

"Tuscan White Bean Soup"- Weisse Bohnensuppe a la Toskana?? lol, Bohnensuppe klingt ja nicht halb so aufregend, gebratener Tunfisch klingt auch nicht so heiss wie "seared Ahi-Tuna".
"Granola"- son olles Muesli, lolol.

I know, sometimes you have to get really creative when translating North American colloquialism, because certain things and they way they are done, don't really exist in other cultures. Und "Mittagspause", makes me cringe, but that what it says, lol. And *cringe* "morning session" sounds like personal business one should keep to oneself!! :ph34r::hysterical:
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don't make it this hard on yourselves. summarize the summary like I said. soup, salad, juice and breakfast is fineee :p
 
That's against my ethics, I am an interpreter and translator.:bugeyed:rofl:
Naaah, I already violated plenty of actual 'rules' when it comes to appropriate use of tenses, etc.

If I find one German news outlet quoting from these translations without a link, Ima fly over in person!!!! :hysterical:

Edit: I meant to erase this, but hit the post button instead if that's an indictor of the 'steam rising'!

At least my medical dictionary came in handy and will come in handy in the future. :wacko:

One more cross by Chernoff and my dictionary will develop the sudden ability to fly, I swear.
 
Pace said:
And *cringe* "morning session" sounds like personal business one should keep to oneself!! :ph34r::hysterical:
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LMAO, yes!! Same in finnish :lol: I just translated the word "Morning". Totally understandable and gives no funny ideas of what might've been going on in the courtroom :ph34r:

Ugh, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one scratching my head with certain words and phrases. So far it's been rather easy to translate (time-consuming, nevertheless), but there are some titles that are giving me a headache. I think I've managed to find proper translations anyway.

As some others here, I want to translate everything in Ivy's summaries, because I think it's important that other fans get all the information available. And I'm doing my very best to be as accurate with the details as possible. Otherwise my work would be in vain and they could just as well turn to Finnish media and their lousy interpretations of what's going on. (not even gonna repeat the stupid errors in their reporting, geez..) Sure, there are some corners I have to cut if I don't want to be stuck on certain words for hours, but I strive for accuracy to the best of my abilities.

So, I'll take the sleep deprivation in order to provide proper translations. lol I'll have plenty of time to rest while this is over. And on weekends. *thanks god for weekends* I'm hoping to catch up with the translations during today and tomorrow, so that I can start fresh on Monday. :)

Thank you Ivy for the great job on summaries!!! This would be impossible without your work. I just wouldn't have the time to do both english summaries and translations.

And translators; keep up the good work, you guys rock :punk:
 
@ Ivy

I don't know if there is something I missed but I think that there is a huge contradicting point within the Defense's opening statement. At one point from what I read in the summaries the Defense states that Murray did not administer Propofol to Michael, because he wanted to switch Michael's habits to other sedatives. The Defense further states that the scientific evidence will show that there was no Propofol in Michael's system that day by the time Murray left Michael's room.

Yet, according to the summary, the very same Defense states that Murray administred 25mg Propofol to Michael around 10.00 a.m. prior to Michael's death. At the same time they say that Michael administered Propofol to himself when Murray left the room.

??????

-Did Murray administer that day Propofol or not?

-If he did, when he left the room he knew Michael was sleeping, how could Michael then administer it to himself? He woke up at 12.00 and immediately administered Propofol without waiting for the doctor?

-If Murray gave 25mg of Propofol that day and if Murray waited till there is no more Propofol present in Michael's system, how does that match with the alternative sedatives Murray was trying to administer to Michael for three days including the day of Michael's death?

I am quite confused.
 
Here is one example:

- Defense believes that Michael wanted to sleep and frustrated that he couldn't sleep and his doctor refusing to give him Propofol he swallowed Lorazepam (up to 8 pills) while Murray was outside the room. Murray geva him Propofol unknowingly and then when he's out of the room Michael gave himself another dose of Porpofol.


My question is also still related to the argument the Defense is putting forward i.e. Murray was giving Michael alternative sedatives for three days, so how come Propofol was in the room at all and how come Murray gave him Propofol anyway?


p.s. By the way, the defense's statements are blurry and weak. They are basically saying that Michael was paying Murray 150 000 dollars for his absence so that Michael could administer risky products such as Propofol to himself? Nonesense.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Here is one example:

- Defense believes that Michael wanted to sleep and frustrated that he couldn't sleep and his doctor refusing to give him Propofol he swallowed Lorazepam (up to 8 pills) while Murray was outside the room. Murray geva him Propofol unknowingly and then when he's out of the room Michael gave himself another dose of Porpofol.
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Well, that doesn't make much sense. In their world it probably does though. Sounds like Murray left the room twice (version #654) - while in reality we don't really know where he was, other than that he was on the phone for a long time that morning. And he himself claimed in the police interview, that he left the room for 2 minutes to go to the bathroom after he gave Michael Propofol. Then there is also the thing that he said he gave Michael the Propofol at around 11 am. While he was calling for Prince and then called security after 12:00. Which would mean he was out of the room for at least an hour and Michael had been dead for more than an hour before he noticed. I guess what the defense is trying here is to say, he gave ihm Propofol at around 11 am, just 25 mg, which would only last for a few minutes, and then when Murray wasn't in the room again at around 12:00, he gave himself another dose of Propofol. I just don't know how he would have done that with the condom catheter (you can't just walk around in the room with that thing), with 8 pills of Lorazepam in his system.

I just googled a bit, Lorazepam has a rather long half life (found different things, about 12 hours, about 10 - 20 hours, on the German wikipedia page it says it is used for anxiety, because it pretty much lasts an entire day). Had Michael taken 8 pills (16 mg) some time in the morning, and 8 pills is a lot, he probably would have been out at 11:00 am or 12:00, or at least very "groogy". And then, I don't remember right now, either the EMT's or the doctor from the hospital who testified yesterday, said that Murray had said, he gave him 2 mg Lorazepam during the night and later that night gave him another 2 mg. With the long half life, I'd say that would mean - if he actually took 8 pills on top of that - that at some point he had 20 mg in his system. I'm not sure if you can even stand up straigt anymore with that in your body. So yeah, what they are saying or are trying to imply doesn't make sense. They just hope to create reasonable doubt, they can't prove any of this.

And even IF that is what happened - why did Murray just have this stuff lying around? The Lorazepam, and especially the Propofol (that shouldn't even have been in the house), not locked away, he didn't even take it with him when he left the room. Even worse - IF Michael was an addict (as they are tying to claim), he should have never had all that stuff in the room. So for me it's not even important if he gave it to Michael or if Michael took all that by himself (not that I believe the latter), it's enough that that stuff was even there, that he did give him Propofol in the first place without monitoring, etc.
 
ivy said:
don't make it this hard on yourselves. summarize the summary like I said. soup, salad, juice and breakfast is fineee :p
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I can't do this, lol. I'm a perfectionist, which is really getting in the way with the translations now - I can't even proof read them, not enough time, I can maybe look through them quickly, but not really proof read. Which means I know there are a lot of mistakes in there, typos, etc. But there is nothing I can do.

And I agree with Laura.L., I always want to have as much information in them as possible, or it wouldn't contain more information than news articles.

Pace - the tenses, I know, lol. The whole "indirect speech" thing. Sometimes I use it, sometimes not so much, but that doesn't really matter, in news articles, etc., they have to use it, but in a colloquial sense you don't really have to and as far as that goes, not using it isn't wrong. I just try to keep it consistent in one post and mostly use it when the witness says somebody said this or that (and not the whole time, like "Zeuge sagt, sie hat dies und das getan" instead of "Zeuge sagt, sie haette dies und das getan"). The summaries that we get are more colloquial too (well, I'll stop calling them summaries now, they are more or less full transcripts ;) ).

And so far I didn't have many problems with the medical terms, I think it was a good idea to make this list with words from the prelim in the other thread, so far I didn't really need the list, I still remember most of it. The only real problem I had so far was the food stuff.
 
Milka said:
Well, that doesn't make much sense. In their world it probably does though. Sounds like Murray left the room twice (version #654) - while in reality we don't really know where he was, other than that he was on the phone for a long time that morning. And he himself claimed in the police interview, that he left the room for 2 minutes to go to the bathroom after he gave Michael Propofol. Then there is also the thing that he said he gave Michael the Propofol at around 11 am. While he was calling for Prince and then called security after 12:00. Which would mean he was out of the room for at least an hour and Michael had been dead for more than an hour before he noticed. I guess what the defense is trying here is to say, he gave ihm Propofol at around 11 am, just 25 mg, which would only last for a few minutes, and then when Murray wasn't in the room again at around 12:00, he gave himself another dose of Propofol. I just don't know how he would have done that with the condom catheter (you can't just walk around in the room with that thing), with 8 pills of Lorazepam in his system.

I just googled a bit, Lorazepam has a rather long half life (found different things, about 12 hours, about 10 - 20 hours, on the German wikipedia page it says it is used for anxiety, because it pretty much lasts an entire day). Had Michael taken 8 pills (16 mg) some time in the morning, and 8 pills is a lot, he probably would have been out at 11:00 am or 12:00, or at least very "groogy". And then, I don't remember right now, either the EMT's or the doctor from the hospital who testified yesterday, said that Murray had said, he gave him 2 mg Lorazepam during the night and later that night gave him another 2 mg. With the long half life, I'd say that would mean - if he actually took 8 pills on top of that - that at some point he had 20 mg in his system. I'm not sure if you can even stand up straigt anymore with that in your body. So yeah, what they are saying or are trying to imply doesn't make sense. They just hope to create reasonable doubt, they can't prove any of this.

And even IF that is what happened - why did Murray just have this stuff lying around? The Lorazepam, and especially the Propofol (that shouldn't even have been in the house), not locked away, he didn't even take it with him when he left the room. Even worse - IF Michael was an addict (as they are tying to claim), he should have never had all that stuff in the room. So for me it's not even important if he gave it to Michael or if Michael took all that by himself (not that I believe the latter), it's enough that that stuff was even there, that he did give him Propofol in the first place without monitoring, etc.
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I just wanted to clear some things up for the translation. Set aside the defense's "logic", in their opening statement, according to the summary, they claimed both that Murray was not giving Propofol for three days already and that he gave 25mg of Propofol although he was refusing to give it to Michael. That's quite confusing, so I wanted to be sure to inform the reader correctly. Which one was it?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I just wanted to clear some things up for the translation. Set aside the defense's "logic", in their opening statement, according to the summary, they claimed both that Murray was not giving Propofol for three days already and that he gave 25mg of Propofol although he was refusing to give it to Michael. That's quite confusing, so I wanted to be sure to inform the reader correctly. Which one was it?
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Well, I think it just sounds confusing because it IS confusing. I watched the stream, but couldn't really follow, the guy was rambling and never really finished sentences, etc. But what I did hear was what I then read in the summary here.

Ok, looking at your first post again - the defense claimed that Murray didn't want to give Michael Propofol that day, he wanted to wean him off. But then Michael was begging for it, so in the end he gave him Propofol, but just a very small dose, only 25 mg. And that before that, Michael had already taken 8 pills of Lorazepam, when Murray wasn't in the room, because Murray had refused to give him Propofol. Then Murray gave him the 25 mg of Propofol, not knowing that Michael already had 16 mg of Lorazepam in his system. And then later, Michael gave himself another dose of Propofol, when Murray again wasn't in the room, and that's what killed him. I'm guessing what they mean by "he didn't have Propofol in his system when Murray left the room" would be the second time when he left the room, by that time the 25 mg Propofol that he had given him, wouldn't be in his system anymore. With 25 mg Propofol he would have only been out for a few minutes.
 
I'm waiting for yesterday's summaries, when will they be posted?
 
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