How did songs get leaked?

[mj_frenzy]

During the making of a certain studio album, MJ used to rent recording studios for continuous periods, even for off-periods when he was temporarily not recording in a particular studio.

He did that as a precaution so as to keep them closed to third-parties (who were not involved in his recordings) in order to minimize the risk of leaks of his songs.

In the Internet era, another example is ‘Blue Gangsta’. Tempamental took MJ’s vocals from that song (without MJ’s consent) & he illegally created a freely available song under the title ‘Gangsta (No Friend of Mine)’.

Tempamental’s case shows that some artists (who are in possession of MJ’s unreleased material) can act in a very unethical way to their advantage.

There is also a different form of leaks of MJ’s songs that took place before the advent of the Internet era.

Various US-located radio stations & DJs managed (in a magical way) to get hold of his songs prior to their official releases.

For example, tracks of the ‘Dangerous’ album (especially, ‘Black Or White&#8217 aired illegally by several radio stations (a week before the album’s official release), much to MJ’s dismay.

 

[dam2040]

During the making of a certain studio album, MJ used to rent recording studios for continuous periods, even for off-periods when he was temporarily not recording in a particular studio.

He did that as a precaution so as to keep them closed to third-parties (who were not involved in his recordings) in order to minimize the risk of leaks of his songs.

In the Internet era, another example is ‘Blue Gangsta’. Tempamental took MJ’s vocals from that song (without MJ’s consent) & he illegally created a freely available song under the title ‘Gangsta (No Friend of Mine)’.

Tempamental’s case shows that some artists (who are in possession of MJ’s unreleased material) can act in a very unethical way to their advantage.

There is also a different form of leaks of MJ’s songs that took place before the advent of the Internet era.

Various US-located radio stations & DJs managed (in a magical way) to get hold of his songs prior to their official releases.

For example, tracks of the ‘Dangerous’ album (especially, ‘Black Or White&#8217 aired illegally by several radio stations (a week before the album’s official release), much to MJ’s dismay.

Man, I remember the Tempamental remix. Pras from the Fugees is on it. Hearing any new Michael was a blessing.

I'm sure the radio thing happened with either HIStory or Bad too.

 

[MJTruth]

I just wish people were trustworthy, principled and patient, when it comes to Michael's work. I empathised with his anger, at the time.
It's part of the reason why I still frown upon leaks, copyright breaches, illegal downloading and sharing, etc.

I agree 100%.
Yet MJJC allows exactly that kind of thing in 2000Watts. It's damaging. Just saying.

 

[Been Told]

I agree 100%.
Yet MJJC allows exactly that kind of thing in 2000Watts. It's damaging. Just saying.

Not sure it's damaging these days. Sony and the estate couldn't care less, what's leaked or not, as far as new releases go. (IMO)

 

[MJTruth]

Not sure it's damaging these days. Sony and the estate couldn't care less, what's leaked or not, as far as new releases go. (IMO)

At this point there has been a lot of leaked material and of course that material is devalued by the leakers and those who shared it after the initial leak. But that doesn't make it right in any moral or ethical sense.

The MJ Estate and Sony are entitled to include songs that have already leaked onto their releases, and given that there isn't much MJ material to release, they have very little choice. Stupid thing is when they included leaked songs on their products MJ fans criticised them for it. It's not the MJ Estate's fault that the fans already heard the songs they were not legally allowed to download/stream!

Make no mistake Sony and the MJ Estate DO care about anything that damages their ability to make money from MJ material and that's understandable. MJ is not here to record anything new so there is a finite supply. I can see why MJ Estate may be hesitant to target MJ fans with legal action because it's a PR nightmare, but they should if those fans don't show any respect for them (or MJ) by leaking or illegal file sharing.

A few years ago some MJ Fans managed to get onto Sony's servers and specifically targeted MJ music. they managed to access MJ materials and music by others artists too. Sony demonstrated at that time that they DO care about leaks and the guys were prosecuted.

 

[Nite Line]

Not sure it's damaging these days. Sony and the estate couldn't care less, what's leaked or not, as far as new releases go. (IMO)

Of course it's damaging. It's damaging to Michael's legacy and is disrespectful to him, when fans share leaked songs on the Internet and or when they put it on a CD to sell on eBay.

Music is a form of art and art is valuable and so it must be valued. Leaking a song online is very unethical and it shows very little value to Michael's art.

 

[Been Told]

Of course it's damaging. It's damaging to Michael's legacy.

About the rest I never said a thing. I only commented on the part about being damaging. How is it damaging Michael's legacy right now? Serious question, because I can't think of a reason.

 

[dam2040]

Of course it's damaging. It's damaging to Michael's legacy and is disrespectful to him, when fans share leaked songs on the Internet and or when they put it on a CD to sell on eBay.

Music is a form of art and art is valuable and so it must be valued. Leaking a song online is very unethical and it shows very little value to Michael's art.

When he was alive I agree but not now. It's not damaging his legacy, the only problem is it gives the Estate less to release. (Or does it? Xscape was a collection of leaked tracks)

 

[Nite Line]

About the rest I never said a thing. I only commented on the part about being damaging. How is it damaging Michael's legacy right now? Serious question, because I can't think of a reason.

Maybe damaging was a bit too strong of a word, but leaks sure as hell are disrespectful to Michael and his legacy.

 

[Nite Line]

When he was alive I agree but not now. It's not damaging his legacy, the only problem is it gives the Estate less to release. (Or does it? Xscape was a collection of leaked tracks)

Estate target audiences isn't the hardcore fans like me and you. Their target audience is the general public and casual fans, and they most definitely haven't heard the leaked tracks before. But it sucks for hardcore fans like myself, who want to hear 'new' songs, but get many leaked songs on the album instead. Xscape like you mention is the perfect example. I heard all but two songs beforehand so it didn't feel like a new album.

 

[dam2040]

Estate target audiences isn't the hardcore fans like me and you. Their target audience is the general public and casual fans, and they most definitely haven't heard the leaked tracks before. But it sucks for hardcore fans like myself, who want to hear 'new' songs, but get many leaked songs on the album instead. Xscape like you mention is the perfect example. I heard all but two songs beforehand so it didn't feel like a new album.

I mean to an extent yes but also no. Focusing too heavy on “new” fans gets us where we’re at now. Apart from the poorly executed Thriller 3D (through no fault of their own) fans have grown tired of their projects and losing hope.

Not every release needs the same old tired boring marketing “bringing Michael to a new audience.” He does that himself.

 

[ChrisC]

I think times have changed, and keeping these kinds of doors closed, and controlling the audience the way they did in the 80s and 90s, is gone now.

 

[Been Told]

Maybe damaging was a bit too strong of a word, but leaks sure as hell are disrespectful to Michael and his legacy.

Even that I don't see. I don't see how leaking a song that Michael worked on (and maybe didn't finish) is any more disrespectful than having some jokers "duetting" with him or "finishing" his songs posthumously. At least with the leaks you hear Michael and his work, albeit unfinished. I honestly can't listen to a single track on the "new" part of the Xscape album. Maybe with the exception of LNFSG. And even then, it's a maybe. And only when I'm in a good mood.

 

[dam2040]

Even that I don't see. I don't see how leaking a song that Michael worked on (and maybe didn't finish) is any more disrespectful than having some jokers "duetting" with him or "finishing" his songs posthumously. At least with the leaks you hear Michael and his work, albeit unfinished. I honestly can't listen to a single track on the "new" part of the Xscape album. Maybe with the exception of LNFSG. And even then, it's a maybe. And only when I'm in a good mood.

I'd rather 'Don't Matter To Me' leaked than the whatever Drake released.

 

[MJTruth]

I'd rather 'Don't Matter To Me' leaked than the whatever Drake released.

Even if the MJ Estate's projects are considered disrespectful, leaking and pirating MJ material is disrespectful and damaging.

 

[ChrisC]

Even if the MJ Estate's projects are considered disrespectful, leaking and pirating MJ material is disrespectful and damaging.

If we're being lied to though, all bets are off.

 

[Nite Line]

I'd rather 'Don't Matter To Me' leaked than the whatever Drake released.

I don't mind the reworked versions as long as we get the demo/original version alongside it. I don't mind Xscape like releases.

 

[dam2040]

Even if the MJ Estate's projects are considered disrespectful, leaking and pirating MJ material is disrespectful and damaging.

The Estate's projects have been far more than disrespectful.

 

[Nite Line]

The Estate's projects have been far more than disrespectful.

Only project I would say is desrespectful is the Michael album.

 

[dam2040]

Only project I would say is desrespectful is the Michael album.

That was more than enough.

 

[Nite Line]

That was more than enough.

It was very disrespectful but I put more blame on the Cascio family than the Estate for the Michael album fiasco.

 

[Been Told]

Even if the MJ Estate's projects are considered disrespectful, leaking and pirating MJ material is disrespectful and damaging.

In what way is a leak of an MJ song right now damaging? I just don't see it. Only hardcore fans care about these leaks. And they'll pay for the songs once they get released. The estate and Sony obviously don't care about leaks, they just release whatever they want anyway.
The only difference is, us fans (or some of us anyway) get to hear the songs first. And without stupid remixing and "finishing" by "producers".

 

[SmoothGangsta]

My dream project would be a small collection of unreleased songs, with different versions of each, maybe with detailed information on them or a short documentary about the creation process. Wouldn't take much effort or cost from the estate and they could release it digitally (although I'd prefer a physical release). A pipe dream unfortunately.

 

[MJTruth]

If unreleased songs or videos are leaked and shared across the internet, even if on private parts of MJ fan forums, that DOES devalue them. It IS damaging. If fans (or anybody else) hears them for free months or years before an official release then they ARE less likely to buy them. If an album of previously leaked MJ tracks was released, or if a DVD/BluRay of leaked video was released and you had 'owned' all of them in your playlist for years would you really buy the album/DVD? How many people do you think would do that in that scenario? I suggest that fewer people would buy the album/DVD than if they hadn't already listened to the songs or hadn't already watched the videos many, many times before.

I can't take you seriously if you believe exactly the same number of people would buy the DVD/album regardless of whether the material had already leaked or not.

Therefore financial damage IS caused by those leaks.

Piracy reduces the MJ Estate's potential income stream. Of course it does. It's a fact. It's why record companies and artists (including MJ himself!) object to piracy so much! Arguing against that is just silly IMO.

Whether you agree with the Estate's projects or not, whether you think they're disrespectful or not, it doesn't change what I said above.

I've said all I can say on this subject now and will end up repeating myself again so no more arguing from me unless I have something new to add.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

If unreleased songs or videos are leaked and shared across the internet, even if on private parts of MJ fan forums, that DOES devalue them. It IS damaging. If fans (or anybody else) hears them for free months or years before an official release then they ARE less likely to buy them. If an album of previously leaked MJ tracks was released, or if a DVD/BluRay of leaked video was released and you had 'owned' all of them in your playlist for years would you really buy the album/DVD? How many people do you think would do that in that scenario? I suggest that fewer people would buy the album/DVD than if they hadn't already listened to the songs or hadn't already watched the videos many, many times before.

I can't take you seriously if you believe exactly the same number of people would buy the DVD/album regardless of whether the material had already leaked or not.

Therefore financial damage IS caused by those leaks.

Whether you agree with the Estate's projects or not, whether you think they're disrespectful or not, it doesn't change what I said above.

Piracy reduces the MJ Estate's potential income stream. Of course it does. Arguing against that is just silly IMO.

I've said all I can say on this subject now and will end up repeating myself again so no more arguing from me unless I have something new to add.

Hardcore fans are the only ones that will hear the leaks. Legit nobody in the general public goes looking for stuff like that. The general public is the estate's main focus and a lot of hardcore fans will buy projects even if the stuff is already leaked. Any sales lost would negligible imo.

 

[MJTruth]

I agree that hardcore fans are the only ones who care about unreleased demos, incomplete songs etc and so are most likely to hear/see them when leaked.
I'd argue that the hardcore fans are the target audience for such releases, and not general public, and so the impact if the the fans have already heard the material is greater than you suggest. Just my opinion of course.

The general public would be the target audience for 'contemporized' music projects, which doesn't fall in the scope of this conversation IMO. But for 'contemporized' projects then I agree leaks are less impactful because the bulk of sales will be to general public.


It boils down to one simple question (and you already answered it).

Do leaks of unreleased material result in fewer sales of an official project??

(a) YES. Then the leaks ARE damaging. Fact.

(b) NO. Then you're kidding yourself. Just my opinion.


(BTW you provided answer A )

 

[Nite Line]

If unreleased songs or videos are leaked and shared across the internet, even if on private parts of MJ fan forums, that DOES devalue them. It IS damaging. If fans (or anybody else) hears them for free months or years before an official release then they ARE less likely to buy them. If an album of previously leaked MJ tracks was released, or if a DVD/BluRay of leaked video was released and you had 'owned' all of them in your playlist for years would you really buy the album/DVD? How many people do you think would do that in that scenario? I suggest that fewer people would buy the album/DVD than if they hadn't already listened to the songs or hadn't already watched the videos many, many times before.

I completely agree with your entire post. Great post but I have to add something. Only hardcore fans like me and you are aware of the leak songs and have heard them. The estate's targeted audience is the general public and the casual fans, who most definitely haven't heard the leak songs, so I don't think the sales of an album will be affected much.

 

[Been Told]

I agree that hardcore fans are the only ones who care about unreleased demos, incomplete songs etc and so are most likely to hear/see them when leaked.
I'd argue that the hardcore fans are the target audience for such releases, and not general public, and so the impact if the the fans have already heard the material is greater than you suggest. Just my opinion of course.

The general public would be the target audience for 'contemporized' music projects, which doesn't fall in the scope of this conversation IMO. But for 'contemporized' projects then I agree leaks are less impactful because the bulk of sales will be to general public.


It boils down to one simple question (and you already answered it).

Do leaks of unreleased material result in fewer sales of an official project??

(a) YES. Then the leaks ARE damaging. Fact.

(b) NO. Then you're kidding yourself. Just my opinion.


(BTW you provided answer A )

Nice try
Hardcore fans were never the target audience for any major Michael release. Never. Not once. And they never will be. Same as for Elvis or The Beatles. Especially posthumously. I think that we will never see another album with unreleased material by Michael Jackson. But even if we do, my above statement stands.
I would like to see someone who works in the music industry to weigh in on this, because my word means nothing. I work with taxes. But judging from my limited knowledge of the music industry, what you say is factually wrong.
Even the "original versions" CD that was provided - it was only included in the Deluxe version of the album. The standard one was only that new reworked crap. That's because the target audience for any Michael Jackson material are not his hardcore fans. Because Michael Jackson is not an indie artist but a megastar.

How many fans do you think there are world wide that you would call hardcore fans? Fans who participate in communities like MJJC. Maybe a few hundred thousand. Not more. What the hell, let's say a million. The rest are concert going, album buying casual fans. Which is great, because that's how it is with megastars. There is something for everyone in Michael's music. But, compared to his several hundred million sold records, only very few people can be considered hardcore fans. Real fans. Fans who defend him against the BS, who know all his songs and so on. Those fans are few and far between.

 

[ConservativeMind]

"Hold My Hand" leaked, too, when Michael was alive (not sure if that was before or after Xscape??) and the story goes that he was very upset about that happening, which is why he shelved the song.

Our local Radio station here in Indianapolis, IN was playing "Hold My Hand" Leak when it actually leaked..lol It was very short lived but they played it for maybe a week trying to pass it off as the new single from Michael.

 

[dam2040]

I know estate tried to claim to IRS MJ was dead in the water commercially before he passed but people wanted new MJ music. Hold my hand leak might’ve changed the course of history. Would TII have happened? Who knows