Kanye West mentions MJ in a new song.

[dam2040]

I don't have hate for Kanye, but he did look like a fool with his antics at the Grammys and saying the things he said, blatantly disrespecting another artist with pretty ignorant comments about his artistry.

Yeah, and he's apologized for it. But, that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. The Grammys are messed up. The voting system is wrong. The correct artists and albums are not being fairly represented.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

All sorts. Fashion, cinema, he wants to design so much.

Could you elaborate a bit cause this is really vauge. He wanted to help people with his fashion line? or with his movies(music videos)?

 

[dam2040]

First of all that's a bit dissmisive that you don't realize that MJ tried to help and heal the world through his music not just his humanitarian efforts.

The only thing with this argument is that this is not the first time he has said stuff like this. Have you forgot that he said that he is more influential than MJ? Do you not remember that he said that he was the new Walt Disney? The new Michelangelo? How can you misconstrue that statement when he specifically said, "The closest thing to Mike since Janet" Comeon. Don't play that "shourded in stereotypes" card. Kanyes actions and behavior is what got some people to turn on him.
I digress though, as I believe he said that in the context of being the closest thing to MJ in the musical sense, and that's just ridiculous.

I'll play whatever "card" I want. I explained why Kanye West and Michael Jackson have similarities. You can be in denial about it, or you can take it as it is. Your opinion here is based on a misquote, so it doesn't really have any basis. In reality, Kanye West is right. He is one of the more influential people in the world right now. Everything he does polarizes opinion. What he is attempting to do in the fashion world can only be applauded. He said "there would be no Kanye West if it wasn't for Michael Jackson". That's a direct quote. I also never said MJ didn't help through his music, even a moron knows that. Heal The World?? Janet has never been close to Michael, let's face it. It's obviously not a musical statement. What Michael Jackson did to music videos, Kanye West wants to do, and is doing, to fashion. When he says the "new Disney" etc, he's talking about creating. He wants to be on that level. He's said that these people are who he looked up to. People shouldn't be so ignorant as to say "no. stop trying. you can't be the new Disney." How come computers get faster and smaller, yet in other fields improvement is almost like a blasphemous statement? Where's the logic in that?!

 

[dam2040]

Could you elaborate a bit cause this is really vauge. He wanted to help people with his fashion line? or with his movies(music videos)?

It's hard to explain. He wants to bring high fashion, at an affordable rate. Removing classicism and elitism through fashion. People walk around with these £5000 bags to feel "better than you" or to improve self-esteem..What sort of bs is that?! We have to buy back our self-esteem? He's also trying to innovate cinema, so it's more of an experience. Helping people through product. There's an awful lot he wants to do. He's proved his worth in music. He's proving his worth in fashion. I think in years to come, if the doors open to him, he's going to truly innovate several fields.

 

[HIStory]

Yeah, and he's apologized for it. But, that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. The Grammys are messed up. The voting system is wrong. The correct artists and albums are not being fairly represented.

Generally it's true that the Grammys are messed up, but don't you think a protest by Kanye in favour of Beyonce stating that the Grammys are flawed is ironic on so many levels? We are talking about an artist (Kanye) who has 22 Grammys and then he goes on stage to ruin another artist's moment in protest for an artist who has 20 Grammys already. And he calls the Grammys messed up in the process. Yes, it's messed up but not because Beck's album won over Beyonce's, but because of artists like Kanye or Beyonce having more Grammys than, say, MJ and Prince combined and we have not even mentioned legends like Bob Marley, Led Zeppelin etc. who were highly influential yet do not have a single Grammy. So the whining coming from Kanye in favour of Beyonce is pretty hypocritical.

I'm no Beck fan, but after the Grammys I went through his catalog and he is a very creative and original artist. What Kanye suggested that Beck is somehow not artistic but Beyonce is a lot of BS and just shows that Kanye did not know anything about Beck when he opened his big mouth.

 

[dam2040]

Generally it's true that the Grammys are messed up, but don't you think a protest by Kanye in favour of Beyonce stating that the Grammys are flawed is ironic on so many levels? We are talking about an artist (Kanye) who has 22 Grammys and then he goes on stage to ruin another artist's moment in protest for an artist who has 20 Grammys already. And he calls the Grammys messed up in the process. Yes, it's messed up but not because Beck's album won over Beyonce's, but because of artists like Kanye or Beyonce having more Grammys than, say, MJ and Prince combined and we have not even mentioned legends like Bob Marley, Led Zeppelin etc. who were highly influential yet do not have a single Grammy. So the whining coming from Kanye in favour of Beyonce is pretty hypocritical.

I'm no Beck fan, but after the Grammys I went through his catalog and he is a very creative and original artist. What Kanye suggested that Beck is somehow not artistic but Beyonce is a lot of BS and just shows that Kanye did not know anything about Beck when he opened his big mouth.

Not at all. Kanye West's Grammy awards stem from the Rap categories. In 2010, he released one of the best album's of all time, and it was snubbed from AOTY.. They do not represent what's really happening in music. So what she has 20 already?! So what Kanye has 22?! It's not a case of "Oh you've got yours.. no more for you" You have to understand the years of the artists you discuss. A lot of artists didn't get Grammy's because they favoured classical music. In recent years, it's slowly coming to the MJs etc. He admitted he was wrong about Beck. He hasn't ever heard his album, neither have most people. Beck did not have the biggest album last year. Beyonce did. That surprise release technique is now called "doing a Beyonce" - yet you don't award her for that?! WTF?! It's not just "oh these guys were huge they don't have as many as the big baddie Kanye" the era's are completely different, and the awards were given for different reasons.. As far as I understand it, the Beatles didn't get many (or any) because The Grammy awards favoured Classical music. I might be wrong here. But I am right about most of these award shows not accurately representing the year in music.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I now remember this thread and I'll have the same comment as back then

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/130574-Yeezy-I-m-bigger-than-Michael-Jackson-was

In fact, the hip-hop star and new dad (to daughter North, 3 months, with Kim Kardashian) considers himself to be something of a revolutionary. Though he conceded that "there would be no Kanye West if it wasn't for Michael Jackson," he also said he'd reached a point that even the King of Pop hadn't seen in his lifetime.

"I've got to a point that Michael Jackson did not break down. I have reached the glass ceiling, as a creative person, as a celebrity ... and I've been at it for 10 years," he told Lowe. "I look around and I say, 'Wait a minute. There's no one around here that looks like me. And if they are, they're quiet as [expletive].' So that means, wait a second -- now we're seriously like, in a civil rights movement."

lets not play dumb, he did say a few controversial things before and then some time later took them back

I believe he truly admires Michael but at times he wakes up with his ego so big he shouldn't talk to anyone

 

[HIStory]

You have to understand the years of the artists you discuss.

I think you should address that to Kanye who went on stage to ruin another artist's moment saying BS like "Beck needs to respect artistry, he should have given his award to Beyoncé" - when he did not even hear his album as he later admitted.

Beck did not have the biggest album last year. Beyonce did. That surprise release technique is now called "doing a Beyonce" - yet you don't award her for that?! WTF?

The Grammys are not the Billboard awards. A Grammy does not have to be awared based on sales. Also what does a marketing strategy have to do with art? It's not the Marketing and PR Awards.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I'll play whatever "card" I want. I explained why Kanye West and Michael Jackson have similarities. You can be in denial about it, or you can take it as it is. Your opinion here is based on a misquote, so it doesn't really have any basis. In reality, Kanye West is right. He is one of the more influential people in the world right now. Everything he does polarizes opinion. What he is attempting to do in the fashion world can only be applauded. He said "there would be no Kanye West if it wasn't for Michael Jackson". That's a direct quote. I also never said MJ didn't help through his music, even a moron knows that. Heal The World?? Janet has never been close to Michael, let's face it. It's obviously not a musical statement. What Michael Jackson did to music videos, Kanye West wants to do, and is doing, to fashion. When he says the "new Disney" etc, he's talking about creating. He wants to be on that level. He's said that these people are who he looked up to. People shouldn't be so ignorant as to say "no. stop trying. you can't be the new Disney." How come computers get faster and smaller, yet in other fields improvement is almost like a blasphemous statement? Where's the logic in that?!

This is the thing, half of the things you are saying are your interpretation of Kanyes statements and not facts. Fact is he said that he is the new Walt Disney, not being in their level in terms of creating or whatever. That's how you interpret it or should I say justify it "i'ts obviously not a musical statement" How would you know this? I can agree that we all are free to make our own interpretations of words and claims and that's just what you're doing right now. I challenge you to show that quote to anyone and ask them what they think it's about.

So you do agree with him then? That he is more influential than MJ? Cause that's what he said, did he not?

I

 

[dam2040]

I think you should address that to Kanye who went on stage to ruin another artist's moment saying BS like "Beck needs to respect artistry, he should have given his award to Beyoncé" - when he did not even hear his album as he later admitted.



The Grammys are not the Billboard awards. A Grammy does not have to be awared based on sales. Also what does a marketing strategy have to do with art? It's not the Marketing and PR Awards.

Art is all down to opinion though, so is there any actual point to this? Aren't the Grammys just a bunch of people saying what they liked? An album is much more than what's on the disc. It should be an experience.

 

[dam2040]

This is the thing, half of the things you are saying are your interpretation of Kanyes statements and not facts. Fact is he said that he is the new Walt Disney, not being in their level in terms of creating or whatever. That's how you interpret it or should I say justify it "i'ts obviously not a musical statement" How would you know this? I can agree that we all are free to make our own interpretations of words and claims and that's just what you're doing right now. I challenge you to show that quote to anyone and ask them what they think it's about.

So you do agree with him then? That he is more influential than MJ? Cause that's what he said, did he not?

I

No, he actually said that Disney was his idol and they are people he aspired to be on the same level of. So it's not a justification, it's what he said. Could you point me to the more influential than MJ quote?

 

[HIStory]

Art is all down to opinion though, so is there any actual point to this? Aren't the Grammys just a bunch of people saying what they liked? An album is much more than what's on the disc. It should be an experience.

An artistic experience. Release strategies have nothing to do with art. It's PR, advertisement - nominate Beyonce's team, marketing strategists, Sony or whoever was involved at some PR and ad awards for that.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

No, he actually said that Disney was his idol and they are people he aspired to be on the same level of. So it's not a justification, it's what he said. Could you point me to the more influential than MJ quote?

Well in one of the radio interviews i saw some time ago he said that he was the new Walt Disney, so go figure.

Sure, I'll find it and post it here

 

[HIStory]

As for Kanye's big mouth ego trips - I don't think anyone takes him seriously any more. It's like a part of his image and I think he's mainly doing it for attention and reaction.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Well in one of the radio interviews i saw some time ago he said that he was the new Walt Disney, so go figure.

Sure, I'll find it and post it here

is it not the one I posted above?

As for Kanye's big mouth ego trips - I don't think anyone takes him seriously any more. It's like a part of his image and I think he's mainly doing it for attention and reaction.

I agree. I think it's only hurting him and no one else.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Dam2040, I think by trying to interpret & to a certain extent, defend Kanye's shenanigans you've sort of dug a hole for yourself. I genuinely think that Kanye has created some good music, but some of his behavior in recent years is just plain out of order. In the past, if MJ made a mistake, I wouldn't defend it unless I felt it was genuinely misunderstood. I agree with everything Respect has said. & to be honest, I'm getting a little bit tired of Kanye throwing a tantrum & then playing the poor misunderstood tortured genius card. I'm sick to death of the guy raining on other peoples parade & then playing the victim card. It's not the first, or second, or third or even fourth time that he's blown up at a ceremony. Yes, the system probably is & has always been flawed, but if it offends him that much, perhaps he should just boycott them. & to be honest he needs to stop fighting Beyonce's battles for her, it's a little bit embarrassing.

 

[HIStory]

Yes, the system probably is & has always been flawed, but if it offends him that much, perhaps he should just boycott them.

Yep, the most honest way to express the opinion that the Grammys are flawed would be if he refused to accept his own awards in protest. Not to ruin other people's moments.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I don't feel people or the media are after Kanye. Maybe they overlook his songs but if he wants people to take him seriously he shouldn't act the way he does. It's not like they interfere in his personal life, it's the thing he does on stage and says on tv. He's like begging for it. I agree about Beyonce. It's pathetic.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

@Dam2040

My apologies he did not ouright say that he was more influential than MJ, that's a bit of me misremembering and interpreting, but this is what he did say

"I was able to ascend to massive heights," he said. "And I've got to a point that Michael Jackson did not break down. I have reached the glass ceiling, as a creative person, as a celebrity and I've been at it for 10 years."

and then he said this

"We the new rock stars, and I'm the biggest of all of them. I'm the No. 1 rock star on the planet."

They are from that long interview he did with that Rob Lowe guy.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

is it not the one I posted above?

Oh, sorry! The thread is going so fast you can't even afford to blink!

 

[dam2040]

@Dam2040

My apologies he did not ouright say that he was more influential than MJ, that's a bit of me misremembering and interpreting, but this is what he did say

"I was able to ascend to massive heights," he said. "And I've got to a point that Michael Jackson did not break down. I have reached the glass ceiling, as a creative person, as a celebrity and I've been at it for 10 years."

and then he said this

"We the new rock stars, and I'm the biggest of all of them. I'm the No. 1 rock star on the planet."

They are from that long interview he did with that Rob Lowe guy.

Yeah, the Zane Lowe interview. Love that one. Not entirely sure by the "MJ didn't break it down" bit, but he's definitely been there for 10 years in terms of not allowing him to create more. I don't disagree with the rockstar comment either, rap is the new rock n roll. In terms of popularity anyway I think.

 

[HIStoric]

Yep, the most honest way to express the opinion that the Grammys are flawed would be if he refused to accept his own awards in protest. Not to ruin other people's moments.

Well, he has done similar things I suppose. Instead of boycotting award ceremonies outright, he has protested certain awards and their selection process by handing them over to others he believe deserve it more than himself: https://www.thefader.com/2015/02/09/all-the-times-kanye-west-gave-his-own-awards-to-someone-else

Not boycotting outright but still a form of protest in a way.

 

[HIStory]

Well, he has done similar things I suppose. Instead of boycotting award ceremonies outright, he has protested certain awards and their selection process by handing them over to others he believe deserve it more than himself: https://www.thefader.com/2015/02/09/all-the-times-kanye-west-gave-his-own-awards-to-someone-else

Not boycotting outright but still a form of protest in a way.

That's alright, but the only thing he said about the Grammys specifically on those occasions is this:

"For Mark Ronson and Amy Winehouse, if I don't get back up here for Album of the Year, you deserve it just as much as me. I deserve it, too."

Not exactly a protest. My point is, if he has a problem with the Grammys he should not protest the Grammys at other artists' expense. That's not cool. At the end of the day he only made himself and Beyonce look bad. I say the latter because some of it fell back on her, with people pointing out the flaws in her artistry in answer. One cannot argue about musical taste, but factually speaking Beck is a very creative guy who does all his music almost all by himself. BTW, the guy's father is also a famous musician:

David Richard Campbell (born February 7, 1948) is an arranger, composer and conductor. He has worked on over 450 gold and platinum albums including 21 (Adele), Futuresex/Lovesounds (Justin Timberlake), The 2nd Law (Muse), Invincible (Michael Jackson), Spirit (Leona Lewis), Aaliyah (Aaliyah), Fallen (Evanescence), Meteora (Linkin Park), B'Day (Beyoncé), Bangerz (Miley Cyrus), and various albums by his son Beck.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]

At the age of 23, Campbell played on his first major album, Tapestry, by Carole King. This led to his first arranger role, for King's Rhymes and Reasons album. Campbell also played viola on recording sessions such as Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On" and Bill Withers' "Lean on Me".[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP]
Since then he has gone on to arrange songs for such artists as Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Paul McCartney, Green Day, Avril Lavigne, Radiohead, Leona Lewis, Juanes, Dixie Chicks, My Chemical Romance, Enrique Iglesias, Neil Diamond, and Sheryl Crow.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Campbell_(composer)

So Kanye preaching to Beck about having to learn from Beyonce what true artistry is was pretty ridiculous.

 

[HIStoric]

So Kanye preaching to Beck about having to learn from Beyonce what true artistry is was pretty ridiculous.

I agree on that aspect, yes.

 

[Bubs]

Well, he has done similar things I suppose. Instead of boycotting award ceremonies outright, he has protested certain awards and their selection process by handing them over to others he believe deserve it more than himself: https://www.thefader.com/2015/02/09/all-the-times-kanye-west-gave-his-own-awards-to-someone-else

Not boycotting outright but still a form of protest in a way.

Kanye should start his own award ceremony as it sounds to me that he, and only himself knows who should or should not have award, no matter what is the award about.

When he broke that "class ceiling" I think he broke something inside his head on the process:scratch:

Yeah, and he's apologized for it. But, that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. The Grammys are messed up. The voting system is wrong. The correct artists and albums are not being fairly represented.

What do you mean by correct artists and albums are not fairly represented?
Record labels submit their artists and albums, then it goes through screening process, and after than Grammy voting members cast their votes? Seems to me it is pretty democratic.
http://www.billboard.com/biz/articl...a-grammy-behind-the-mysterious-voting-process

Of course when our own favourite album/artist doesn't get nominated, we tend to scream unfair etc, but Grammy voting members doesn't have the same musical taste as us.
Like it was already mentioned, Grammy awards are not given to people who sold most or who had the most media visibility.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

In my opinion what Kanye did doesn't show the Grammys (or whatever award) are worthless, he's actually giving it even more importance - he just thinks he's the one who knows better who should get the award. Who asked him to be Beyonce's guardian angel anyway? I don't think she's being discriminated in any shape or form.

 

[SoCav]

I don't mind Kanye rapping that line - braggin' and boastin' has always been a part of rap. It's when people start to take him seriously that I get annoyed.

This is just my opinion, but I grew up listening to a lot of rap and hip hop and to me Kanye is one of the most overrated MCs of all time (of ALL time!). To each their own, but to compare his level of artistry to that of MJ is just laughable to me. To compare their media treatment - which seems to me to be fairly mild in the case of Kanye, and what is negative seems to stem from his own arrogant, egomaniacal attention-seeking stunts and statements - is just insane to me. Nor do I understand how someone can equate MJ's humanitarian efforts - massive donations, hundreds of visits to orphanages and hospitals, opening his own house up to the less-priviliged, artistical statements aimed directly at connecting people and improving the world - to Kanye selling some sneakers.

Speaking of that, I read that despite all his talk about revolutionizing the fashion world and making more affordable projects, his products have the same hefty price tags as other brands and he still signs huge deals with the same fashion companies and designers that he criticizes. But I admittedly do not know the ins and outs of that.

 

[analogue]

Kanye West is a real life cartoon character

 

[HIStory]

I don't mind Kanye rapping that line - braggin' and boastin' has always been a part of rap. It's when people start to take him seriously that I get annoyed.

This is just my opinion, but I grew up listening to a lot of rap and hip hop and to me Kanye is one of the most overrated MCs of all time (of ALL time!). To each their own, but to compare his level of artistry to that of MJ is just laughable to me. To compare their media treatment - which seems to me to be fairly mild in the case of Kanye, and what is negative seems to stem from his own arrogant, egomaniacal attention-seeking stunts and statements - is just insane to me. Nor do I understand how someone can equate MJ's humanitarian efforts - massive donations, hundreds of visits to orphanages and hospitals, opening his own house up to the less-priviliged, artistical statements aimed directly at connecting people and improving the world - to Kanye selling some sneakers.

Speaking of that, I read that despite all his talk about revolutionizing the fashion world and making more affordable projects, his products have the same hefty price tags as other brands and he still signs huge deals with the same fashion companies and designers that he criticizes. But I admittedly do not know the ins and outs of that.

Thank you.

I really did not get that comparation of MJ's humanitarian work to Kanye having a fashion line. Even if it is (supposedly) cheaper than other fashionable brands (if true).

I'm admittedly not a big fan of hip-hop, so I'm not one who can judge Kanye's place in hip-hop history, but I'm also a bit sceptical of those "he is the MJ of his genre/of this generation" statements made here.

 

[MJresearcher]

When it comes to media treatment there is no comparison. Kanye has been berated for his inappropriate behaviour (which he deserved) but MJ was often lied about and hounded like he was a monster for more than 20 years. As far as I'm concerned Kanye's run ins with the press aren't close to being similar to what MJ endured.