Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate Thread (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[Roosje]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Incredible. Over half of those songs you've posted were not even written by him! For the record, matters of the heart are anything BUT trivial. So the love songs you've quoted were a waste of your time and mine.

Liberian Girl - very political. World's most famous star, eclipses The Beatles and Elvis, celebrates African beauty. I think that's INCREDIBLY political.

Give In To Me - speculation has been that the song is about his relationship with his father. Which makes that anything but trivial.

Who Is It - trivial? Really?

Dangerous - he quotes/paraphrases the bible throughout that song. Trivial? You sure you understand the meaning of the word?

What a complete waste of time.

Are you serious? I once followed this course in uni, in which a feminist scholar interpreted every single piece of literature as anti-woman. Interesting, but also a bit simplistic at the same time. The fun thing about literature (song lyrics included) is that the interpretation may vary from one person to another, that's what makes it interesting. I think one goes too far though when all is stamped 'POLITICAL' or 'SEXIST' or 'ANTI-RACISM'. It oversimplifies the works under the false notion of 'deep thinking' or 'scientific findings' for that matter. Texts are really meaningful when their meaning is layered. You make Michael into a political writer, which he was no doubt, but he was more than that. And Keep Your Head Up (to stay on topic) perfectly fits in with his previous writings to me.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Dangerous is not a political song, no matter how many lines you want to draw out for your argument. BAD isn't a political song nor is one with a serious message. Neither was State Of Shock, TWYMMF, Who Is It, Jam, Cheater, nor Give In To Me, speculation aside. And you keep using the same line of one song to support your argument, when the song you're quoting is about paprazzi and the negatives of fame, something Michael fondly wrote about.


As for KYHU, what makes you think the songwriting is beneath him? Not all of his songs has to do with poverty amongst children in Beirut. The fact that the song is about modern going-on's in today's world is sign enough that he wrote this.

 

[LukeNo.1MJFan!]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

The thing that makes me think that it's not Michael Jackson is the fact that on the original leaked version, it said "Black and Beats Vibe baby". Back and Beats Vibe are a company who help up and coming artists becoming widely known. Why would they be credited on a Michael Jackson song?! I can think why. Because it was originally a Jason Malachi song, perhaps? So he needed the promotion and Black and Beats Vibes sold him the beat. However when Sony asked if they could use it for Michael, they had that removed.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Dangerous is not a political song

Who said it was? What it isn't is trivial.

Neither was... Jam

Nothing could be more opposite to the truth. Jam isn't political? That's the COMPLETE opposite of the truth. THE COMPLETE opposite.

"Nation To Nation All The World Must Come Together. Face The Problems That We See Then Maybe Somehow We Can Work It Out. I Asked My Neighbor For A Favor She Said Later. What Has Come Of All The People? Have We Lost Voice? What It's About?"

NOT political? I think you'll find that it's a political masterpiece.

Neither was... Cheater

Again, the COMPLETE opposite of the truth. THE COMPLETE opposite.

"You know I work too hard for this kinda pay. I wrote a letter, to the head of the CIA. I don't care a jack, or about what cha' do. Just put ya dime on the line baby, cos i own you."

Not political? Are you listening to the same songs that I'm listening to?

I never claimed every song he wrote was 'political'. I claimed that he never wrote anything 'trivial'. The fact that you've claimed that the songs quoted above were 'not political' means that you either haven't been listening to them or you have no idea what he was talking about.

"Nation to nation all the world must come together" is not political? Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. A complete lack of appreciation for the man's art.

 

[Deniro UK]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Incredible. Over half of those songs you've posted were not even written by him! For the record, matters of the heart are anything BUT trivial. So the love songs you've quoted were a waste of your time and mine.

Liberian Girl - very political. World's most famous star, eclipses The Beatles and Elvis, celebrates African beauty. I think that's INCREDIBLY political.

Give In To Me - speculation has been that the song is about his relationship with his father. Which makes that anything but trivial.

Who Is It - trivial? Really?

Dangerous - he quotes/paraphrases the bible throughout that song. Trivial? You sure you understand the meaning of the word?

What a complete waste of time.

This isn't about TRIVIAL songs, its about POLITICAL songs like you've been talking about.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

This isn't about TRIVIAL songs, its about POLITICAL songs like you've been talking about.

If you want to have a civilised debate, don't try to misquote me.

But every song he wrote and recorded was profound. And anything but trivial.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I was going to say that. Terminology switching is not very useful in the midst of discussion.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I was going to say that. Terminology switching is not very useful in the midst of discussion.

Nor is misquoting. Stick to the actual words I've used if you want to have a civilised debate.

But every song he wrote and recorded was profound. And anything but trivial..

 

[Deniro UK]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

If you want to have a civilised debate, don't try to misquote me.

I may have interpreted things the wrong way, or mis-read something so apologies if thats the case but I was arguing against the political notion, not the 'trivial songs' thing, you are right that MJ does not do 'trivial' songs. You have mentioned stuff about 'political' a lot which is something I disagree about with regards to the majority of Michaels songs being politically driven, which was what we were initially discussing.

 

[aganim]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I Just Can't Stop Loving You is trivial...
Truth is, that this song is just a lovesong like 3,000 others.
Though it is one of the best, but that doesn't change it's trivial.

Actually I find it quite booring that there has to be a message in every song someone writes?
Sometimes I just want to have fun!

KYHU doesn't sound like a song Michael wouldn't sing.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I Just Can't Stop Loving You is trivial...
Truth is, that this song is just a lovesong like 3,000 others.
Though it is one of the best, but that doesn't change it's trivial.

Actually I find it quite booring that there has to be a message in every song someone writes?
Sometimes I just want to have fun!

KYHU doesn't sound like a song Michael wouldn't sing.

Yeah, I think I'm listening to something that the rest of you aren't. "A lot of people misunderstand me. That's because they don't know me at all."

Trivial? If you say so. I'll believe it's anything but.

 

[Roosje]

^With your reasoning no pop song is trivial. They are mostly about love, a deep subject in itself. Reality is that most love songs are cheesy and full of cliché's. That includes some of Michael's. But I love them. The doggone girl is mine comes to mind.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

I may have interpreted things the wrong way, or mis-read something so apologies if thats the case but I was arguing against the political notion, not the 'trivial songs' thing, you are right that MJ does not do 'trivial' songs.

Don't mention it.

You have mentioned stuff about 'political' a lot which is something I disagree about with regards to the majority of Michaels songs being politically driven, which was what we were initially discussing.

I contest that most of Michael's self-written tracks are political in nature. List the songs that HE's written, solely, and they'll mostly be political in nature.

 

[samhabib]

^With your reasoning no pop song is trivial. They are mostly about love, a deep subject in itself. Reality is that most love songs are cheesy and full of cliché's. That includes some of Michael's. But I love them. The doggone girl is mine comes to mind.

"She works in a restaurant night and daaaaay" is trivial. Matters of the heart, ie love songs, are NEVER trivial.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Dangerous is not a political song, no matter how many lines you want to draw out for your argument. BAD isn't a political song nor is one with a serious message. Neither was State Of Shock, TWYMMF, Who Is It, Jam, Cheater, nor Give In To Me, speculation aside. And you keep using the same line of one song to support your argument, when the song you're quoting is about paprazzi and the negatives of fame, something Michael fondly wrote about.


As for KYHU, what makes you think the songwriting is beneath him? Not all of his songs has to do with poverty amongst children in Beirut. The fact that the song is about modern going-on's in today's world is sign enough that he wrote this.

You don't think 'Bad' has a serious message?

 

[Guido18]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Annyyyyyway, I just listen to the voice and I don't hear Michael. That's all..

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Who said it was? What it isn't is trivial.



Nothing could be more opposite to the truth. Jam isn't political? That's the COMPLETE opposite of the truth. THE COMPLETE opposite.

"Nation To Nation All The World Must Come Together. Face The Problems That We See Then Maybe Somehow We Can Work It Out. I Asked My Neighbor For A Favor She Said Later. What Has Come Of All The People? Have We Lost Voice? What It's About?"

NOT political? I think you'll find that it's a political masterpiece.



Again, the COMPLETE opposite of the truth. THE COMPLETE opposite.

"You know I work too hard for this kinda pay. I wrote a letter, to the head of the CIA. I don't care a jack, or about what cha' do. Just put ya dime on the line baby, cos i own you."

Not political? Are you listening to the same songs that I'm listening to?

I never claimed every song he wrote was 'political'. I claimed that he never wrote anything 'trivial'. The fact that you've claimed that the songs quoted above were 'not political' means that you either haven't been listening to them or you have no idea what he was talking about.

"Nation to nation all the world must come together" is not political? Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. A complete lack of appreciation for the man's art.

It's not a political song, a political song would be one that has do with politics, would it not? Prophetic? Maybe, political? No. It doesn't address politics, it's an uptempo "heal the world" song.

I'd also appreciate it if you stopped using the first verse of each song to benefit your argument. Especially since it's only one line in the song that references a political organization.

And you only mentioned two songs, all the song's I posted were written by him, other than BAD. Whereas your argument was all his written songs were about meaning and politics. All his songs meant something, so your vagueness may also be an issue here. But what else can one expect from someone who can't even have a discussion without insulting the other members?

*Shrugs*

Fact is, None of these songs in debate are "beneath Michael", especially Keep Your Head Up.


In regards to the poster that mentioned the "Black and Vibe beats" thing, DJ's do that all the time when they get leaks. Look at DJ Thuggy and Another Day, or the DJ that leaked STTR, DYKWYCA applies also. All these DJ's got their hands on the initial leak and promoted themselves on it. Doesn't mean they had the original master at all.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

It's not a political song, a political song would be one that has do with politics, would it not?

Jam is not a political song? Is that what you're claiming here?

Whereas your argument was all his written songs were about meaning and politics.

Get your facts right. I said his songs were anything but trivial. And I'm right. And I said that MOST of his self-written songs are poltical, by nature. And I'm right.

But I don't expect someone who claims that Jam isn't political to understand that.

Fact is, None of these songs in debate are "beneath Michael", especially Keep Your Head Up.

That's a 'fact'? Haha Of course it is. "They wanna write my o-bitch-uaaarrrryyyyy....". Yeah... that's the work of the greatest entertainer that ever lived, right there! Almost on a par with Billie Jean! hahaha

 

[MJFan07]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Michael Jackson has suffered the worst trial of his life, where he's literally faced the prospect, day-in, day-out, of facing his life A. without his children and B. behind bars, and that after having suffered that he had nothing more important to say than 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' and 'she works in a restaurant night and daaaaaay'.

If you believe that? Believe it. But me? Not only do I not believe it but I ALSO believe it's a HUGE insult to Michael Jackson and to Michael Jackson's legacy.

You have a very good point here. I don't know if Michael wrote these lyrics or not but I'm convinced that there are much better songs that he wrote in recent years that haven't been shared with us. And given the quality of this track, I don't think he was serious about it if he did record it. If it was a meaningful track to him he would have made it great. Like Best of Joy. In my opinion, if this track was him (which I'm not convinced) then he was just messing around. I don't think he ever intended to release this.

 

[AdamBa17]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

if you think this track is michael then IMO you are NOT a real fan, just a casual

 

[AllForMJ]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Wow! We better be glad that "2000 Watts" came out in 2001 and not 2010! It REALLY would have been viewed as a fake, huh?!

:lol:

 

[Arklove]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

^^ no :scratch:

 

[Pentum]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Wow! We better be glad that "2000 Watts" came out in 2001 and not 2010! It REALLY would have been viewed as a fake, huh?!

:lol:

No, lol.

 

[harribo]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

sorry, i wont state my opinion on this track but i noticed how posts supporting these tracks are not allowed.
why not? the title states ; " keep your head up- the great DEBATE." a debate is an argument, two sides, for and against. so i think that rather than everyone ranting about these tracks why cant both sides of the argument discuss this?

 

[barok232]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

sorry, i wont state my opinion on this track but i noticed how posts supporting these tracks are not allowed.
why not? the title states ; " keep your head up- the great DEBATE." a debate is an argument, two sides, for and against. so i think that rather than everyone ranting about these tracks why cant both sides of the argument discuss this?

You are absolutely right on this. I believe so too. All opinions should be allowed here (and everywhere in the forum if you ask me)

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

if you think this track is michael then IMO you are NOT a real fan, just a casual

Get the **** out of here. Having a disagreement is one thing, but to say someone isn't a real fan just because they don't agree with you is a slap in the face to what Michael and this board stands for.

 

[wolfrevenant]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

if you think this track is michael then IMO you are NOT a real fan, just a casual

Oh please, stop all this talk with "real" fans and whatever. If the people who believe it's Michael were so casual in their fanship, they wouldn't be spending hours on this forum in the first place.

sorry, i wont state my opinion on this track but i noticed how posts supporting these tracks are not allowed.
why not? the title states ; " keep your head up- the great DEBATE." a debate is an argument, two sides, for and against. so i think that rather than everyone ranting about these tracks why cant both sides of the argument discuss this?

Agreed. Maybe they were trying to prevent disrespectful fights amongst fans? Either way, I still see people coming in to debate, so maybe the rules stated by the OP aren't as it seems?

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

well, they're TRYING to make the cascio songs sound like songs michael would sing. "monster" is supposed to be like is it scary or threatened or thriller or ghosts--they're like "see? it's about monsters! mike loves that kind of stuff!"

"breaking news" is supposed to be like tabloid junkie or scream. they're cheap imitations. I'm expecting the next cascio releases to be something like "malicious" instead of bad or "i can't take it anymore" instead of we've had enough

 

[samhabib]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Or 'Fix The Earth'. Or 'Planet Melody'. Or 'Water'. Oh... hold on...

 

[Aniram]

Re: Keep Your Head Up - The Great Debate

Have any of you thought he may have recorded songs like these because of how many people complained that he was washed up and only writing cheesy ballads?

When Invincible came out, and even back with HIStory, people complained that he was making slow music now. Childhood, Stranger in Moscow, and You Are Not Alone especially were all the general public really saw during that time and so I noticed people thought he wasn't making very upbeat stuff anymore like they believed Thriller and Bad were.

Then with Invincible, people complained that over half of it was more ballad kind of songs. I've heard so many people say that when it's just not true. HIStory and Invincible have some of the most upbeat songs he's ever done, but people don't pay attention they just read the press reviews and go off what they say.

So I'm thinking it's possible that Michael wanted to prove a point that he's not going to stop making music, that he's not going to make only ballads and still has energy left to crank out songs like Breaking News and Monster.

I think Breaking News makes a lot of sense, because Michael had been out of the public eye for a couple years and people were still obsessed with where he was living and how he was doing financially.

"Just when you thought he was done, he comes to give it again"

That doesn't seem like Michael to you?

For some reason it seems realistic that he would write something like that in 2007 after all he'd been through from 2002-2006 and the world thinking he may have finally been destroyed.

I'm not saying I'm 100% positive it's MJ. I don't think anyone can be unless they saw him record the songs, but they don't seem unrealistic at all for him.

I remember hearing Breaking News for the first time and thinking it sounded like a much much worse version of Tabloid Junkie(one of my favorite MJ songs), but now I think of them as completely different and I love Breaking News. I actually love KYHU and Monster, all three are wonderful songs and I've been a fan of Michael Jackson since '92.

Just thought I'd add some of my thoughts to the discussion and see what people think.