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[MERGED] MICHAEL JACKSON & PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

And I also believe that the skill of dancing should be taken just as seriously as the skill of playing an instrument
 
Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

mjprince1976 said:
Michael released 7 solo albums as an adult and 15 more or so as part of the Jacksons or solo Motown ones. Prince has released 38 official albums and at least 2000 unreleased songs sit in his vault. Yes I love Michael, but not as much as Prince who is a musical quasar.
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It is quality over quantity.

I think some musicians should have a little more self-criticism and some sort of criteria as to what they put out there.
 
TinnyandOdd;4111612 said:
I didn't know that Mike had invited Prince on stage at the James Brown concert back in the day? The more you know :p
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[video=youtube;Yy9L4ft7EGk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9L4ft7EGk[/video]

ALAN LEEDS (Former tour manager for Prince and James Brown; Co-editor of the book The James Brown Reader): Prince went to a James Brown gig [in 1983] with Bobby Z, his drummer at the time, Big Chick, who was his security guard, and I think Jill Jones, who was one of his protégés. By now, everybody knows what happened at that gig. I don’t think Prince realized that Michael was going to be there. James looked a little puzzled in that video when Michael whispered in his ear, “Hey, bring Prince up.” And of course Prince didn’t really know what to do either. He went to the guitar first but he fumbles with that because it was left-handed. He played a few licks, did some dancing and knocked over a prop by accident. Now I always wondered if Michael intentionally brought Prince up to put him in that position just to say, “Hey, you think you’re on my ass? Well follow this, mother****er [laughs].” Bobby Z called me and said, “Oh boy…he made an ass of himself tonight.” He said Prince didn’t say a word the whole way to the hotel.
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http://www.vibe.com/article/michael-jackson-vs-prince-oral-history-pg-2
 
Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

MattyJam said:
They are very different artists and comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges. I consider them both to be supremely talented and gifted individuals, but Prince's is a learned gift, MJ's wasn't. That's not to take anything away from Prince. The discipline and passion it takes to become a musician of his standard is really admirable. He has literally dedicated his life to his art and has achieved more than most could ever hope to, and of course, there has to be some kind of innate gift in him to be able to get as far as he has. But Michael Jackson? Well, at the risk of sounding like a fangirl, I believe he was touched by the hand of God. His talent is almost supernatural.
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Good point. I think there is a difference between their approach and philosophy to art and music and both are valid approaches, just different.

Prince's parents were professional musicians themselves (his father was a jazz musician, as far as I know) and he studied music, to play instruments since an early childhood. Michael wasn't surrounded by professional musicians as a child but he was such a natural talent that he was ready for the big stage at the age of 10, simply based on his inborn talents. I think Michael liked to keep his talents more untouched by formal trainings. Actually, Wade Robson, before he went crazy, talked about how Michael advised him once not to take formal dance lessons because they would ruin his natural talent. I think that reflects on MJ's philosophy re. keeping his talents as natural as possible without the influence of formal trainings. And maybe this is one of the reasons why he did not learn to play instruments either (at least not on a professional level). Besides, he did not really need it either. To me he did not need to play a guitar on stage just to show off "look I can play the guitar". That was not him, that was not who he was or was supposed to be on stage as an artist. That is not how he expressed himself artistically.

Whereas Prince took pride in being a "one-man-band". He took pride in being able to do almost everything in studio. Obviously that takes a lot of effort, a lot of hard work to learn instruments (although, like Matty said, the 23 instruments thing seems like a PR exaggeration - I have seen a list and the list such instruments among the 23 as the triangle, bongos, congas, keyboards and synthetizers, drums and percussions, electric and accoustic guitar are counted seperately etc. LOL). It also earns Prince a lot of admiration. But to me that does not make him superior to Michael. I love Michael's reliance on the naturality of his talents. I love the way he composed music. To me it is impressive, I always admired that. Many people can learn to play instruments but there is no way to learn to be Michael Jackson.
 
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Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

Bubs said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_You_(Prince_album)

There is not really content who is going win competition as which one plays more instruments as Michael is clear winner - his whole body was his instrument:cheeky:
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So, Prince plays four instruments. Not 23.

Guitars - electric guitar, acoustic guitar.
Bass - Orr bass, bass synth, singing bass, Fuzz bass.
Keyboards - Fender Rhodes electric piano, acoustic piano, Mini-Moog, Poly-Moog, Arp String Ensemble, Arp Pro Soloist, Oberheim 4-voice, clavinet, orchestral bells.
Drums\Percussion - drums, syndrums, bongos, congas, water drums.
 
Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

MattyJam said:
Excellent post.

You only have to look at MJ doing Who Is It on Oprah to see that this man is an instrument unto himself. He called himself an instrument of nature, and back then, when I was a kid, I didn't really get it. But I do now.

I don't subscribe to the idea of knocking one great artist down to elevate another and I do consider Prince to be a musical genius, but I've never seen anything Prince has done that has impressed me more than Who Is It on Oprah. Michael didn't need an instrument for that, he didn't need costumes or backing dancers or a band. It was all there inside of him. It's easy to forget how incredible moments like that are, especially when his peers are still alive and kicking, still making new music and exciting their fanbases with live shows etc. As MJ fans all we have left is what was in the past. Even posthumously released stuff is bittersweet and will never be the same as a proper new album. I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but the point I'm trying to make is that it's all too easy to forget just how talented Michael Jackson was now he isn't with us anymore.
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Absolutely agree with the bolded bit. I think both MJ and Prince would give us a smack back to our heads to even talking such a nonsense:D
Heck, James Brown didn't play any instrument and did it made him less Godfather of Soul? No, he was as physical entertainer and so was Michael, Prince is just a different type of entertainer.
 
Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

Exaggerated story. MJ and Prince got along and spent time together occasionally over the years

It's fairly inaccurate to say Prince resented or didn't think much of Michael. Prince along with Andre Cymone, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis grew up Jackson 5 fans and saw MJ's success with Thriller as a goal when he was working on the whole Purple Rain project. Prince respected Michael and vice versa
 
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Re: Prince and Michael story from Vegas 2006..

I think the whole 'rivalry' was hugely exaggerated. After all MJ wanted to Bad with Prince. There's also many stories of them getting along. Like shooting hoops at Paisley Park. MJ sending Sly Stone tapes to Prince. I recall a story of the Jackson brothers saying they listen to Prince and I believe it was said MJ did as well. MJ also attended two Purple Rain shows back stage. And Prince defended MJ in 2000 I believe it was.

Prince also covered songs at concerts after MJ's passing.

One thing is for sure. Both are fantastic and two of the greatest musical artists we'll ever see.
 
Alot of the stories there sure seems embellished and some
just can't be take seriously

"When both were recording at the same Los Angeles studio, Prince invited Jackson to play ping-pong. Michael, a star since age 8 who had lived a sheltered life, didn’t know how.

You want me to slam it?” Prince asked. Michael drops his paddle and holds his hands up in front of his face so the ball won’t hit him. Michael walks out with his bodyguard, and Prince starts strutting around like a rooster. ‘Did you see that? He played like Helen Keller. - David Z (Prince Producer, Engineer, Mixer )"

Yeah ok.

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Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

^^^Yeah-I take that with a grain of salt although it reminds me of the story when the brothers went on a vacation weekend (Jacksons touring days for Epic) and the hosts' daughter said the bodyguards wouldn't let Michael play ping pong, basketball or swim because he might get hurt.
All the other brothers got to do what they wanted.

So maybe Michael had started protecting himself.
It doesn't ring true in this case tho, I agree.
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

Actually I heard the ping-pong story from several sources.

Just because there is a photo of MJ playing ping pong as a child it does not necessarily refute this story IMO. It could have been just a photo op, you cannot tell from a photo how well he could play. And especially even if he did play as a child how much he forgot by the time he was an adult. Or if he just didn't feel like playing with Prince and tried to excuse himself.
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

Artistic rivalry, maybe, but not on a personal level. I don't think so.
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

respect77 said:
Actually I heard the ping-pong story from several sources.

Just because there is a photo of MJ playing ping pong as a child it does not necessarily refute this story IMO. It could have been just a photo op, you cannot tell from a photo how well he could play. And especially even if he did play as a child how much he forgot by the time he was an adult. Or if he just didn't feel like playing with Prince and tried to excuse himself.
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I don't doubt that the ping pong match between them went down just not in that way. Prince strutting around like a rooster, Michael dropping his paddle to cover his face. Come on. They always try to make Michael seem like a goodie two shoes weak softie next to prince. They also said Michael called prince a big meanie. Some of these comments also make it seem like Michael's world collapsed when prince released Purple Rain lol.
 
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Themidwestcowboy;4119365 said:
I don't doubt that the ping pong match between them went down just not in that way. Prince strutting around like a rooster, Michael dropping his paddle to cover his face. Come on. They always try to make Michael seem like a goodie two shoes weak softie next to prince. They also said Michael called prince a big meanie. Some of these comments also make it seem that Michael's world collapsed when prince released Purple Rain lol.
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Oh okay. I understand.

The story that stuck in my mind about that ping-pong match was one that represented Prince as some kind of insecure, childish jerk. LOL.

Dance Music Sex Romance: Prince: The First Decade
While working at the Samuel Goldwyn Soundstage, Prince received a visit from Michael Jackson, whom he promptly challenged to a game of table tennis, using a table that had been set up in the middle of the sound stage room. “Michael said, ‘I don’t know how to play ping-pong!’” Rogers remembers. “But Prince took one pad and gave Michael the other, and they started very politely volleying the ball back and forth. Suddenly, Prince said, ‘C’mon, Michael, get into it,’ and he slammed the ball into Michael’s crotch. I was rolling my eyes!’ ‘Oh God, he’s embarressing himself.’ But Michael knows how to handle himself and he didn’t seem to care. Then Michael started flirting with Sherilyn Fenn who was visiting Prince in the studio. Prince was pacing, but he wasn’t going to get into the game of flirting back. They said their hasty goodbyes.’”
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https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/category/michael-jackson-and-prince-2/
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

Neither friends nor foes, I think. Seems like they respected each other and there may have been a bit of an artistic rivalry, but it was probably way overblown.
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

I always thought it was clever how Michael threw the Prince references into Moonwalker. It was cute and funny.

Without stuff like that, I honestly would have paid no attention to Prince.
 
Re: MICHAEL JACKSON Vs. PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

I LOVE Prince and Michael Jackson so much!
I do not think there was any real rivalry.
They were both excellent and very different performers and artists. There was no reason for jealousy on either side and I have never heard either one of them talk badly about each other.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

MattyJam said:
I had dinner with Prince once, and he was just sipping tea, very daintily.
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"Shut up Medge!"

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As for the rest. I think Madonna needs to realize that everyone has a different personality. MJ and Prince are not going to be like her (nor they have to be) because they are different personalities. Did they use mystery as PR? Sure. But then Madonna used other things as PR, such as showing off her sexuality. Every big name artist uses PR stunts from time to time and Madonna is no exception, only her PR stunts were different than MJ or Prince's.

And MJ did have his everyday fun in private so that he did not is just a wrong assumption. Obviously he had a different personality than Madonna so fun to him might have meant different things than to Madonna. Also with MJ and Prince I don't think the mysterious, eccentric thing is just an image. It genuinely came from who they were/are. Some parts of it might have been exaggerated for PR but obviously MJ wasn't your average guy even without inventing the hyperbaric chamber story.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Here we go.....let's take one interview where she doesn't kiss someone's arse & take it fully out of context, and let it negate all the great stuff she has said about both MJ & Prince.

I think it's more than fair to say MJ was too isolated from the rest of society. Not necessaily his fault, as he was plucked out of 'normal' society frombefore he was 10 years old.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Tony R said:
Here we go.....let's take one interview where she doesn't kiss someone's arse & take it fully out of context, and let it negate all the great stuff she has said about both MJ & Prince.
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Who negated anything?
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Fiona said:
I'm sorry, but you can't expect somebody to be something they're not. MJ was isolated because everybody wanted something from him. I think being the golden goose of the family and the main breadwinner at the age of 10 is a very double-edged sword and MJ paid the price for that. His own family constantly badgered him for reunion concerts, other entertainment folks always wanted to be near him to further their own publicity (Uri Gellar, Martin Bashir, Oprah, Rabbi Schmuley), managers and lawyers wanted him to sign contracts, the fans always wanted something from him.

Madonna never had to deal with that as a child, nor did she ever likely experience that kind of intensity even in the height of her career. She was never on MJ's level, I know she's a superstar in her own right, but MJ was on a whole other level, he was like a God and was revered as one. How can you possibly relate to other people when you're being stared and gawked at like a caged animal as soon as you step outside the door?

And who is Madonna to say that it could benefit his art? She could only wish to possess an ounce of the talent Michael had, I think he was doing just fine on his own, considering all he accomplished in his career.
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I think Madonna knows how lucky she is that she wasn't famous before she was an adult, she made that aduntantly clear on her speech following his passing.

And like Matty said, I didn't see any malice in her words at all.

I've always thought that she is very lucky that considering her level of fame, she had made it out (relatively) unscathed. By which I mean, no breakdowns, lawsuits, incidents with the law or multiple marriages (yes, she has had 2, but I guess that's not altogether abnormal nowadays).

And I think MJ initmated many times through songs such as Childhood, his Grammy's speech '93 & Oprah that he also wished for a normal, anonymous youth.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

respect77 said:
Who negated anything?
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I was pre-empting the usual types of responses a thread gets where anyone initmated anyting remotely negatove towards Michael.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Tony R said:
I was pre-empting the usual types of responses a thread gets where anyone initmated anyting remotely negatove towards Michael.
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"Pre-empting". LOL. Okay.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

respect77 said:
"Pre-empting". LOL. Okay.
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I don't feel it's necessary to be sanctimonious, (albeit it is your most over-riding trait), when the history of threads will usually prove me right.
 
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