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Michael Jackson Estate SUES Over Sale Of MJ Concert Pics

Parties came to a settlement agreement. Per settlement agreement Estate will be getting 200 photos from Victory tour and the parties agreed that Estate owns the copyrights of the photos.
 
ivy said:
Parties came to a settlement agreement. Per settlement agreement Estate will be getting 200 photos from Victory tour and the parties agreed that Estate owns the copyrights of the photos.
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Good.
 
Good job Estate. The pictures should have been their in the first place their own Michael image. Peoples will never learn.

Yes thanks you Ivy for the updated.
 
ivy said:
Parties came to a settlement agreement. Per settlement agreement Estate will be getting 200 photos from Victory tour and the parties agreed that Estate owns the copyrights of the photos.
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Any idea if there were more than 200 pictures involved? And if so, I guess they can be sold as long as the buyer is informed that the estate holds the copyright for reprint?

I guess since the ownership dispute was confusing and took so long to settle, the Estate might have had to pay something in this settlement. Is that logical? Or is that just the normal delay in these kinds of court proceedings?
 
If Victory is ever released officially, there will be no excuse for a gorgeous photo book to not accompany the DVD and live CD.

Release Victory now Estate/Sony. Estate, please do not gain 200 photos only to hide in a vault away from fans.
 
It would be terrific, but i won't hold my breath.
 
barbee0715 said:
Any idea if there were more than 200 pictures involved? And if so, I guess they can be sold as long as the buyer is informed that the estate holds the copyright for reprint?

I guess since the ownership dispute was confusing and took so long to settle, the Estate might have had to pay something in this settlement. Is that logical? Or is that just the normal delay in these kinds of court proceedings?
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I believe there are more than 200 photos. If you remember during the auction Estate asked them to add a note saying that the copyright was disputed and some people agreed to get the photos only with no copyright.

The agreement is public and Estate isn't paying anything. The reason it took a long time is they needed to find who the consignor is and then deal with all the discovery etc.

Tygger said:
If Victory is ever released officially, there will be no excuse for a gorgeous photo book to not accompany the DVD and live CD.

Release Victory now Estate/Sony. Estate, please do not gain 200 photos only to hide in a vault away from fans.
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Just so you know - most (if not all) of the photos have been public for some time. This is the Vaccaro photos. He opened a pay per view site for them in 2005 (some fans took it from there and shared them publicly), these photos have been used in Katherine Jackson's book etc. So they aren't hidden and I'm sure we have seen most of them in some way or another. It's just that after all these years and the photos changing hands multiple times (first sold to Howard Mann and then given to Mann's lawyer Durst) and multiple lawsuits (starting from MJ's lawsuit against Vaccaro, Estate's lawsuit against Mann & Vaccaro and Estate's lawsuit against the auction house and Mann's lawyer Durst), Estate was finally able to establish their copyright.
 
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Tygger said:
If Victory is ever released officially, there will be no excuse for a gorgeous photo book to not accompany the DVD and live CD.

Release Victory now Estate/Sony. Estate, please do not gain 200 photos only to hide in a vault away from fans.
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love your post i can just kiss you i do one even better i let Michael do it here you go. That for you Tygger.


​
 
^^I support this request for a Victory Tour DVD, CD, and gorgeous booklet and will help by signing petitions or writing letters-whatever we need to do.
Speaking of photos, I was searching for something yesterday and ran across a slew of behind the scenes pix from the Destiny Tour. All were great.
I want that officially too! :)
 
We need to get one going good ideas barbee0715. I know alots of fans will sign it. How can we get that going?
 
ivy said:
Just so you know - most (if not all) of the photos have been public for some time. This is the Vaccaro photos. He opened a pay per view site for them in 2005 (some fans took it from there and shared them publicly), these photos have been used in Katherine Jackson's book etc. So they aren't hidden and I'm sure we have seen most of them in some way or another.
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Where are the photos?

I do not know if I have seen these particular 200 photos or not. I will not know until I see them. All the more reason for the Estate to release them officially with context, i.e., the official release of the Victory Tour on DVD with an accompanying live CD and now, a beautiful photo book.

Release Victory now!
 
Tygger said:
Where are the photos?
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probably available everywhere by now.

Like I said Vaccaro put them on a pay per view site for about $15 back in the day (2005 -2007). TSCM copied them all and shared them as it can be seen here : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...page3?p=1916697&highlight=vaccaro#post1916697
Links won't work now. but it should show you that these photos and even more were freely shared among the fans .

some of them were used that Katherine's book, never can say goodbye. If you bought that you should have seen them there too.

you can see them at the auction website (starts at the mid page and continues) : https://www.liveauctioneers.com/cat...s-movie-props-and-costumes/?pagenum=8&rows=20


and if you didn't see them before, you are welcome. now you don't have to wait for Victory release to see them.
 
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ivy said:
I believe there are more than 200 photos. If you remember during the auction Estate asked them to add a note saying that the copyright was disputed and some people agreed to get the photos only with no copyright.

The agreement is public and Estate isn't paying anything. The reason it took a long time is they needed to find who the consignor is and then deal with all the discovery etc.



Just so you know - most (if not all) of the photos have been public for some time. This is the Vaccaro photos. He opened a pay per view site for them in 2005 (some fans took it from there and shared them publicly), these photos have been used in Katherine Jackson's book etc. So they aren't hidden and I'm sure we have seen most of them in some way or another. It's just that after all these years and the photos changing hands multiple times (first sold to Howard Mann and then given to Mann's lawyer Durst) and multiple lawsuits (starting from MJ's lawsuit against Vaccaro, Estate's lawsuit against Mann & Vaccaro and Estate's lawsuit against the auction house and Mann's lawyer Durst), Estate was finally able to establish their copyright.
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So someone is out of pocket and has had to hand over 200 images of the tour?
 
LastTear said:
So someone is out of pocket and has had to hand over 200 images of the tour?
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I guess if anyone bought the images 'without copyright' at the auction, the seller/consignor would be paid for those images?
As the consignor didn't own the copyright in the first place, the Estate wouldn't need to buy it ( as it owned it already...)
 
LastTear said:
So someone is out of pocket and has had to hand over 200 images of the tour?
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hmm a little hard to answer, not much out of pocket IMO.

everyone is paying their own legal expenses so they had that expense. They are returning Estate the 200 or so images and agreeing Estate is the copyright owner of the photos.

the proceeds of the auction was held in escrow account. the people who thought they were getting the photos AND the copyrights will be refunded their money. people who agreed they are just buying the photos WITHOUT the copyrights, will get the photos they purchased and the money they paid for the photos will be given to the Estate.

In short they agreed Estate is the owner of the photos. Durst and Premiere is paying their own legal expenses. The rest is being handled with the money from the buyers of the auction.
 
ivy said:
and if you didn't see them before, you are welcome. now you don't have to wait for Victory release to see them.
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I have not seen the majority of these photos.

Very unfortunate they are being viewed on an auction website instead of being released in context via a Victory release.

The Estate has copyright ownership now; let us hope they do something valuable with the photos instead of what they are currently doing with them.
 
Tygger said:
I have not seen the majority of these photos.

Very unfortunate they are being viewed on an auction website instead of being released in context via a Victory release.

The Estate has copyright ownership now; let us hope they do something valuable with the photos instead of what they are currently doing with them.
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I agree i like to see the Estate do this also.
 
ivy said:
hmm a little hard to answer, not much out of pocket IMO.

everyone is paying their own legal expenses so they had that expense. They are returning Estate the 200 or so images and agreeing Estate is the copyright owner of the photos.

the proceeds of the auction was held in escrow account. the people who thought they were getting the photos AND the copyrights will be refunded their money. people who agreed they are just buying the photos WITHOUT the copyrights, will get the photos they purchased and the money they paid for the photos will be given to the Estate.

In short they agreed Estate is the owner of the photos. Durst and Premiere is paying their own legal expenses. The rest is being handled with the money from the buyers of the auction.
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Thank you, also to add to the loses would be whatever the memorabilia store paid for them int the first place, unless they were simply a 3rd party for advertising benefits. (?)

As for what the estate will do with them, it's early days and much will depend of exactly how rare they are.
 
Tygger said:
otos instead of what they are currently doing with them.
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I don't think they have them yet. All I saw was a notice of an agreement, nothing to confirm that the agreement was executed. Plus given the history involving these items / Vaccaro items, they had a hard time enforcing anything with that group of people. We'll see if this will be different.

LastTear said:
Thank you, also to add to the loses would be whatever the memorabilia store paid for them int the first place, unless they were simply a 3rd party for advertising benefits. (?)
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If you are talking about Premiere Props, they were just the auction house for the items. They hadn't paid for them. Mann paid for these items to Vaccaro and then Mann gave these as a payment to his lawyer Durst. So I guess Durst is losing a payday.
 
ivy said:
I don't think they have them yet. All I saw was a notice of an agreement, nothing to confirm that the agreement was executed. Plus given the history involving these items / Vaccaro items, they had a hard time enforcing anything with that group of people. We'll see if this will be different.



I, they were just the auction house for the items. They hadn't paid for them. Mann paid for these items to Vaccaro and then Mann gave these as a payment to his lawyer Durst. So I guess Durst is losing a payday.[/QUOTE]

If that is the case then I would call that the icing on the cake.
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ivy said:
Plus given the history involving these items / Vaccaro items, they had a hard time enforcing anything with that group of people. We'll see if this will be different.
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Questions please: I know there were issues with the Estate and Vaccaro in the past but, are you stating the Estate is not able to enforce judgments against Vaccaro/group? What prevented the Estate from enforcing past judgment(s) against Vaccaro/group and what will prevent the Estate from enforcing this judgment against Vaccaro/group?
 
Tygger said:
Questions please: I know there were issues with the Estate and Vaccaro in the past but, are you stating the Estate is not able to enforce judgments against Vaccaro/group? What prevented the Estate from enforcing past judgment(s) against Vaccaro/group and what will prevent the Estate from enforcing this judgment against Vaccaro/group?
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short answer : mainly Vaccaro & co was the reason for the problems. mostly they are in denial about court rulings.

long answer: this isn't just Vaccaro vs MJ Estate. This has been going on for decades and this was the 4th lawsuit concerning the same items. A short recap below.

Vaccaro gets the storage items through bankruptcy. Michael and Janet sues and wins with a ruling saying that they aren't part of the bankruptcy and their items shouldn't be included in the bankruptcy. Also judge's ruling states copyrights aren't included in bankruptcy sale. Despite this ruling Vaccaro keeps the items and acts like he has the copyrights.

In 2005 Vaccaro opens the pay per view site with the photos (including the photos mentioned here) and Michael sues again saying he owns the copyrights. Michael doesn't follow up with the lawsuit due to the 2005 trial. Although this trial gets dismissed with no ruling either way Vaccaro acts like he won it and established ownership of copyrights.

in 2009 Vaccaro / Mann forms a partnership and again uses the items from Vaccaro items (including the photos here), Estate sues claiming copyright once again. After almost 2 years of legal process, court determines - based on the very first court ruling that - Vaccaro doesn't own the copyrights. Orders Mann & Vaccaro to pay Estate $2.5 Million for copyright infringement (which at least Vaccaro did not pay).

Then in 2014 the Vaccaro photos is put to sale on an auction site with the claims of copyright ownership. It turns out Mann bought the items from Vaccaro (which Vaccaro disputed in another case) and gave it to his lawyer Durst. Durst who was part of the previous case and knew about the ruling, still claimed copyright ownership. So another lawsuit has been filed and now seems to end with an settlement.

So given the history of these items and these people , I personally would wait to see if the agreement will be executed properly. I wouldn't be surprised if there was any problems with enforcing the court rulings and/or settlements.
 
^^Interesting. I appreciate the detailed response.

Estate/Sony: the above does not excuse you from releasing Victory ASAP.
 
short update

the auction company has yet to sign and execute the settlement agreement. Judge gave them 10 days or will hold a hearing.
 
What are their waiting on sign it and be done. Ivy what will happen in the hearing will the judge telling them to sign the settlement?

The images and the copyright should belong to the Michael Jackson Estate anyway plane and simple.
 
ivy said:
So given the history of these items and these people , I personally would wait to see if the agreement will be executed properly. I wouldn't be surprised if there was any problems with enforcing the court rulings and/or settlements.
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Well I hate to say it but I have been proven correct. Estate is still waiting for the agreement to be executed. To this day still they haven't received the photographs,negatives and payment. They asked the court to hold a hearing about it. So now the court will ask the other side what's the reason to not execute the settlement agreement. Hearing is set for February 12th.
 
The settlement was finally signed - after judge was about to hold a hearing.
 
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