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Murray Trial- Day 13- October 19th Discussion

do we have to put up with that jermaine book advert proclaiming about hearing the truth!
 
suzynyc said:
Me too. I expressed concern to my anesthesiologist before having gallbladder surgery this past July. I didn't mention MJ but he knew what I was thinking ha.
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susynyc how'd you feel after you woke up? I felt really good. I can't help but think of that :(
 
i want the link for the stream and chat back?????? Its now about jermainse book, i want that rather gone.. i couldnt find for awile the link.
I always clicked on it here. SO please someone put it back??

And 45 min of break?? what the ... are they doing?
 
indranee said:
susynyc how'd you feel after you woke up? I felt really good. I can't help but think of that :(
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I had several general anesthesia for medical procedures, and it wasn't always great. I went into trouble 6 years ago, but I was not told exactly what happened. The anesthesiologist told me that it had been a nightmare, I didn't ask... But had no problem whatsoever after that.

Last one I had was 10 days ago, for about 3 to 4 hours. I don't know what they used, but I noticed a difference from the previous ones : I felt great and refreshed. That surprised me, it's not the way I usually feel after anesthesia. And I was still intubated when I woke up.
 
"Longer mid-morning break is so prosecutor can edit the tape to take out the scenes the judge is not allowing to be shown to the jurors."
 
Defense objects to prosecution's "terrifying dramatization"
Posted: 01:35 PM ET


The judge has ruled jurors will get to see parts of a video presentation, which shows a simulation of a cardiac/respiratory arrest while under propofol. Defense Attorney Ed Chernoff raised an objection to the exhibit this morning.

"Experiments have to apply to the specific facts of the case. This gives the jury the impression this is what occurred," Chernoff said. "It's extremely prejudicial. This particular video is not relevant and we ask that it not be made available to the jury."

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said the video is intended to accompany the testimony of Dr. Steven Shafer when he testifies about the standard of care issues.

The silent video is 10-15 minutes long and is a step-by-step guide to how propofol is administered, how the patient is monitored during sedation and what procedures should be undertaken in the event of an emergency.

It's divided into different segments - enhanced by subtitles - and shows the equipment and preparation required in the administering and monitoring of propofol. The second segment demonstrates how propofol is placed in a syringe and inserted into an apparatus that calibrates the patient's weight and an infusion rate is set. The judge has ruled that these two segments are permissible.

This is followed by a segment on "Patient Assessment," which shows the different steps the physician takes to check the patient's vitals before he signs an "Informed Consent" document. This segment will also be showed in court.

The video then shows what defense attorneys find objectionable - a patient (actor) appears to experience an emergency. His airway becomes blocked and his mouth appears to fill with liquid and he needs to be suctioned. There is also a simulated cardiac arrest and what procedures follow in that situation. The judge will allow the cardiac arrest but will exclude the most graphic part of the video, where the patient needs to be suctioned.

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/19/defense-objects-to-prosecutions-terrifying-dramatization/
 
Ingelief said:
i want the link for the stream and chat back?????? Its now about jermainse book, i want that rather gone.. i couldnt find for awile the link.
I always clicked on it here. SO please someone put it back??

And 45 min of break?? what the ... are they doing?
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There is a link to LIVE STREAMS posted on Case main page now
if that what you need.
 
bouee said:
I had several general anesthesia for medical procedures, and it wasn't always great. I went into trouble 6 years ago, but I was not told exactly what happened. The anesthesiologist told me that it had been a nightmare, I didn't ask... But had no problem whatsoever after that.

Last one I had was 10 days ago, for about 3 to 4 hours. I don't know what they used, but I noticed a difference from the previous ones : I felt great and refreshed. That surprised me, it's not the way I usually feel after anesthesia. And I was still intubated when I woke up.
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I had my procedure done 4 months ago with diprivan and woke up exactly the way you felt. I wasn't still intubated though. they must have taken that stuff out before they woke me up. my pressure was really low though. for about two hours they wouldn't let me go 'cos my pressure was so low. They waited until it was at least 110/70 before I got out of the damn place. But I felt really good.

I'm glad you're doing well.
 
thanks ivy. that video is very damaging imo why is suctioning seen as graphic?

we are back
 
indranee said:
susynyc how'd you feel after you woke up? I felt really good. I can't help but think of that :(
Click to expand...

I always feel great after waking up from general anesthesia. Being an insomniac myself, it's the best "sleep" I ever get. I guess people react differently because my sister had knee surgery recently and she was sick after she woke up and it took her hours to feel normal.
 
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them bringing these items into the court is a great idea,,,kind of a show and tell for the jury..this way they can connect with the words that they have been hearing for the past 3 weeks. Good Job walgren
 
judge is saying what shaffer said earlier as to why whys hes testifying is based on shaffers own opinion its not given as facts.its based on the prosecutions case in other words ie the comments about murray and being upset about how ppl view the drug.

showing an IV saline bag and its packaging the bag is full of saline. shaffers explaining why you give saline. ie dehydration.pointing out the yellow port. u can put a needle into it to take out the saline or to add drugs. the yellow port self seals so it doesnt leak.showing where the spike is places on the bottom of the bag you put the spike into the hole at the bottom of the bag then an IV line comes off it and the drugs come out
 
The jury must be getting fed up with all the delays. Think this video they're about to show will put everything into context though.
 
Explaining an IV intravenous through the vein
Infusion ...drop drop layman terms
Bolus ...all at once....jamming

Propfoal comes in a vial with a stopper
compeonents of proporfal vial. 100mg. No bacteria
To remove propofol in a bottle must go through the rubber stopper
with a needle or a spikeDr Schafer demostrating how to remove propofol
 
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shaffer explaining the meaning of IV and its context. 2 ways of giving drugs ie bolus. shooting it in and infusion means dripping it in slowly. drs dont use the word drip much. drs would say an infusion. ie infusion means drip.drip is a lay term.

talking about diprivan. comes in a glass vial and it has a stopper covered with abit of foil.walgrens getting a bottle out to show .diprivan is sterile. to get to the diprivan you have to get to it through the stopper. either with a needle or with a large spike/ infusion. when u give saline the IV bag gets smaller. the diprivan bottle doesnt. so to get the diprivan out you have to allow air back into the bottle. showing the jurrors the top of the diprivan bottle

shaffer is showing how you take diprivan out of the bottle and then allow air back into it
 
Walgren is walking us through.. brilliant!
Twin step objective:
1)to debunk the theory of Michael doing self-administration
2) and again CM's deviation of standard of care while administering propofol
 
shaffer is showing that u can only get a small amount of the dip out of the bottle into the needle in one pull. becasue of the air issues you have to push air in to the bottle a couple of times to get a decent amount of dip in the bottle. hes drawing 20cc of diprivan.

ie it would not be easy for mj to draw out the diprivan himself u cant just pull it all out in one go. (whats 20cc in relation to mj??)
 
showing the stopper with the hole in it in the dip bottle found in the house. the line indicates a SPIKE created that hole. and the spike is used to create a fusion line. shaffer says a needle would never create that slit in the stopper it comes from a spike only and a spike is used to create an IV
 
they are setting this up for 1. Having to do all those steps,,,there was no way Michael would of been able to self administer a bolus in 2 minutes and,,,2. to show that a spike DRIP was used on Michael with the prop that night., The pros is proving their case;
 
The video is about to be shown. It demostrates what even 25 mg of propofol can do.
 
I really like the idea of bringing in the items so the jury can clearly see the different components etc. Video about to be shown.
 
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