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Murray Trial - Day 19 - October 27 2011 - Discussion

thrillerchild said:
At the moment all the questioning is sadly relevant to the def's arguments :no:
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It's the defence witness of course it would....just wait for cross, I'm sure Walgren will deal with any issues that would harm their case. He's done a pretty good case of cross of the defence witnesses so far.
 
Rhilo said:
I don't like the way it's going. Please tell me I'm worrying for nothing.
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It's kind of hard the defense to say Michael was an addict since Murray didn't take records of his treatment. Murray also said crap about opiate addiction in his interview. Everything was about a suppose propofol dependency, not painkillers.

Another question, why would Murray send Michael to rehearsals on the 19 if he suspected withdrawal and why did he get piss at Kenny for sending him home. Not to mention telling everyone that Michael was fine and healthy. Murray can't have it both ways.
 
tbh the pros fecked up by having no issues with kliens records coming in. they should have fought it tooth and nail. its no use not having klien testify but allowing his records in as that just allows ppl to interpretrate them how they want without the actual source being able to speak. not that i want klien testfiying. non of this should have come in at all. judge ruled it out but in the pros not objecting to the records coming in then it comes in via the backdoor
 
It's kind of hard the defense to say Michael was an addict since Murray didn't take records of his treatment.
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demoral addiction is what chernoff has gone on about and is blaming all mjs symptoms on
 
This witness is going to backfire on Murray/Chernoff in a major way. I can already tell by some of the words he's using that Walgren will be able to get a lot of things out of him that will damage the defense's attempt at claiming Murray was rapidly detoxing MJ at home. This guy keeps using words and phrases like "at a hospital....monitoring...respiratory support..." And Murray, not being an expert in treating drug dependencies or detox will continue to be exposed as an imcompetent git.

I know this is hard to hear...but wait for Walgren. This witness will do Murray no favors when all is said and done.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
demoral addiction is what chernoff has gone on about and is blaming all mjs symptoms on
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When I said records I mean like what Nurse Lee did. He didn't write down Michael's complaints, took vitals, or give a detail work up. If he did, he should had spotted dependency or withdraw. He also should had known all of Michael's doctors and talked to them. Klien couldn't be that big of a secret since he was Michael's doctor for over 20 years. It isn't like he found Klien on the internet one day.
 
here we go with kliens records the dr looked at them
 
Talking about medical records he was asked to look at, i guess that's Kleins records.- 36 pages
 
Ramona122003 said:
It's kind of hard the defense to say Michael was an addict since Murray didn't take records of his treatment. Murray also said crap about opiate addiction in his interview. Everything was about a suppose propofol dependency, not painkillers.

Another question, why would Murray send Michael to rehearsals on the 19 if he suspected withdrawal and why did he get piss at Kenny for sending him home. Not to mention telling everyone that Michael was fine and healthy. Murray can't have it both ways.
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Thank you. And let's not FORGET that email Murray sent to the insurance company on the morning of Michael's very death. If he had any concerns that was the time to express them. Right down to the wire he claimed MJ was healthy and nothing was wrong with him.

btw...I think Klein's records without Klein on the stand was for the best. The interpretation of them that will stick with the jury will prolly be the one that makes the most sense. We've made sense out of it, let's hope the Pros. has as well. We'll find out soon if they intrerpet them as we have.

Come on, Walgren!
 
what a surprise they are only gonna go through certain days.
 
So I see they are trying to say that the hot and cold feeling was due to demerol withdrawal. Now they will review kliens notes and claim what we expect them to say.
 
chernoff implying the records arent complete and others were thrown away or not handed over.
 
someone else can type this bit up listing everything. cant do with this crap
 
elusive moonwalker said:
tbh the pros fecked up by having no issues with kliens records coming in. they should have fought it tooth and nail. its no use not having klien testify but allowing his records in as that just allows ppl to interpretrate them how they want without the actual source being able to speak. not that i want klien testfiying. non of this should have come in at all. judge ruled it out but in the pros not objecting to the records coming in then it comes in via the backdoor
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elusive that is why i said why is the pros not objecting?? Obj to this nonsense. klein isnt allowed, but his med are???? That is wrong!
 
Showing Arnold Klein's record.
Michael using a pusednoym of Arnold Omer.
This is up to Waldman to pull a fast one if he liked.
He can interpret it any way he want to his favour. Pffff!
I wish Walgren would call Dr Steinberg back to re-interpret correctly
 
I just want to get Walgren on cross, to be honest.
 
Records provided to him began in Jan 2009 and end 22nd June 2009.

Chernoff asking Dr Waldman if any way to tell if records are complete, he said no.

Why is Chernoff so disorganised he doesn't have copy for the witness, and witness can't read from the screen

Starting March 12 2009 record
- patient omar arnold (MJ alias)
- treatment (prefixed that he does not dermatology) - boxtox, 1mg medazlan, 100mg demerol, (i think), shows pic of eyes and eyebrows on that record being shown where I assume treatment occured


Saying given above average doses, starting dose would be 50mg, for someone whose never had any contact with opiate
 
so they are implying all the fillers and botox was a cover to get demoral! as u dont need demoral for botox according this dr. i guess hes never heard of ppl with different pain thresh holds
 
Treating Michael for an addiction theory doesnt wash, this guy is an addition specialist, CM is not.
This guy takes notes, keeps records CM does not!

Even if CM thinks somewhere in his tiny mind that he was then all the drugs used to treat addiction.... Was propofol on that list?? NO!

He's still and always has been guilty as hell!
 
Even IF Mike was addicted to demerol, and even IF that was a cause of his insomnia, that does not excuse ANYTHING that Murray did. This whole testimony is pointless.

Mike had insomnia. Even if part of the reason for that insomnia was self inflicted, the bottom line is Mike died due to acute propofol intoxication - which occurred because Murray did not have any of the correct monitoring equipment, left the room, abandoned the patient, failed to call 911, lied to paramedics and ER doctors.

None of this testimony is gonna get Murray off. None of it should. It is irrelevant. It does not explain or justify ANY of Murray's actions.
 
10.45 and 11.45 demerol shots on another day, total of 200mg

Top limit of demorol is 600mg in 24 hours says the doctor.

through out medical records are these exact types of references..waldman agrees.

Going through month of April:
6th april @ 8pm - 200mg demerol and 1mg medaz in left upper quadrant
9th April @ 3.30pm - 200mg demerol medazolan 1mg right upper quadrant
15th April - same left upper quadrant
 
first question from walgren should be do u know what this case about and then go through it. ie all this is irrelevent and it should have never been allowed to come in
 
dmehta said:
None of this testimony is gonna get Murray off. None of it should. It is irrelevant. It does not explain or justify ANY of Murray's actions.
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They're just trying to muddy the waters and all they need is one juror to have doubt, so they are going to do whatever they can to take jurors mind of what Murray did and his failings. Let's hope they don't succeed, it all depends on how smart the jury is.
 
of course he had a tolerance to it. we all know he issues with it in the past.
 
Chernoff says MJ is not opiate naive he put it to Walman his tolerance for
dosage is high. Tryng to justify the level found in his stomach? Is that kind use for Botox?
Objection!
Sustained!
 
There is also no doubt that Klein has a LOT to answer for. This amount of demerol - although unrelated to Mike's death - should not have been given. If he could see that Mike was developing some kind of dependency it should have stopped.
 
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