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Murray Trial - Day 19 - October 27 2011 - Discussion

Saying large doses for opiate naieve person and having increases in dosages...effectively saying the 200mg are no longer having any impact and so increasing to 300mg, and some upto 375mg.

Asking if he's ever given demerol said yes.

Said he's never given 375mg of demerol
 
Looking at all this, I think the pros should have allowed Klein to testify. Then they would be still going through the records, but at least they would be explained by a person who made them. Not some other random doctor who is nor familiar with the patient.
 
dmehta said:
There is also no doubt that Klein has a LOT to answer for. This amount of demerol - although unrelated to Mike's death - should not have been given. If he could see that Mike was developing some kind of dependency it should have stopped.
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Money perhaps? I'm not a fan of Kleins either.
 
He might have not given 375 of Demerol but I bet he has not given propofol either. Go ahead and ask him that Chernoff.
 
dmehta said:
There is also no doubt that Klein has a LOT to answer for. This amount of demerol - although unrelated to Mike's death - should not have been given. If he could see that Mike was developing some kind of dependency it should have stopped.
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Unless you know the full story, you can't say what a person should or shouldn't get based on numbers alone. We also know that Michael had a tolerates.
 
Trust me when I say you do NOT want Klein on the stand. After all we've seen with this nutjob, can you seriously trust that he would sit in that chair and be SANE for the entire questioning? I do not.
 
If he could see that Mike was developing some kind of dependency it should have stopped.
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well maybe there wasnt one. mj had a history with demoral. and would be tolerant to it. so its no suprise hw ould need more. i suffer from bad headaches i have to up the dosage casue after a while certain meds dont work anymore cause i get use to them
 
Public behavior??? What in Michaels public behavior shows that he was an addict???
 
6 weeks of high use would cause dependence use in any of us...in response to chernoff asking why he thinks he was addicted.
 
JMie said:
Looking at all this, I think the pros should have allowed Klein to testify. Then they would be still going through the records, but at least they would be explained by a person who made them. Not some other random doctor who is nor familiar with the patient.
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klein is too unstable to testify imo.
 
Here we go ... the addict word. Waldman going on about it.
6 weeks of high dosage would make him DEPENDENT ( another back door way of saying addict! Slimy)
 
wonder if this witness has a clue about mjs past and his tolerance hence the high levels given
 
please dont take this wrong.. BESISED CM and the case.

I think its bad. 51 injections in 3 months of demerol... Im shocked.. after 93 klein should never gave it to michael again, addiction is for life.. why did he do that?
Michael rehearsed with so much meds in him, for more than a horse. Demerol, propofol alot of benzos!

I feel so sorry that no one cared for our michael. And why did michael not say ENOUGH give me other pain killers no Demerol. Its to risky!

:(

Im sad... this is not helping cm the case is clear, but it shows how bad some doctors are in the world. Giving to much meds..

He was overmedictated IMO.....

I feel so sorry for michael..
 
chernoff asking if any notations of a doctor in these medical records...said no he can't see any signatures initials
 
if mj was dependent from april how come he hardly saw klien in june
 
all this proves is he MAY have had a problem demoral didn't kill him
klien may be a bad doctober but hr didnt kill him
 
So Klein not having complete records justifies Murray not keeping records how? Just proves that both doctor were incompetent. Doesn't excuse Murray's behaviour or make it okay.
 
Looks like I may miss some of the cross as I'll be at a Jackson Live show :( But hope the lunch break is extended :p
 
Ingelief said:
please dont take this wrong.. BESISED CM and the case.

I think its bad. 51 injections in 3 months of demerol... Im shocked.. after 93 klein should never gave it to michael again, addiction is for life.. why did he do that?
Michael rehearsed with so much meds in him, for more than a horse. Demerol, propofol alot of benzos!

I feel so sorry that no one cared for our michael. And why did michael not say ENOUGH give me other pain killers no Demerol. Its to risky!

:(

Im sad... this is not helping cm the case is clear, but it shows how bad some doctors are in the world. Giving to much meds..

He was overmedictated IMO.....

I feel so sorry for michael..
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So you're saying that Michael should had bit a bullet instead of taking painkillers? Any painkiller is addicted, not just Demerol.
 
well atleast Klein HAD medical records for Chernoff to refer to....Murray had NONE.
 
I am very angry today, and I despise Muarry with more intensity for allowing the defense to do this to Michael. Let's wait for the cross-examination.
 
I feel so sorry that no one cared for our michael. And why did michael not say ENOUGH give me other pain killers no Demerol. Its to risky!
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all painkillers are the same. seeing as mj hardly saw klien in june whats the excuse for that. they are using selective records to paint the picture they want.
 
The problem for Chernoff is that the shots of demerol in June were not only decreasing as far as the dates in between them but the DOSES were also decreasing before MJ's death. So all the talk off April and May have no bearing here.

If Michael were withdrawing from demerol it would have happened as soon as the doses started to decrease which was between May 21 and EARLY June. By the time the 25th rolled around, Michael's last shot on the 22nd was no more than 100mg. This is the info that's most important.
 
complaints from someone addicted to opiates...chernoff wants to know

overactivity of some body functions, anxiety, restleness and insomnia (oh look Chernoff jumps on that)

saying in withdrawal every body has some sleep problems in varying degrees, can be daily, not possibly more chronic expect it to last weeks to months

requires multiple medication to treat - sleep medication, benzo etc
 
wendy2004 said:
The problem for Chernoff is that the shots of demerol in June were not only decreasing as far as the dates in between them but the DOSES were also decreasing before MJ's death. So all the talk off April and May have no bearing here.

If Michael were withdrawing from demerol it would have happened as soon as the doses started to decreases which was in EARLY June. By the time the 25th rolled around, Michael's last shot on the 22nd was no more than 100mg. This is the info that's most important.
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exactly. walgren needs toget those records out there in cross.
 
a shot on the 22nd of june doesnt spell ADDICT...this guy is an idiot and chernoff is reaching again.
 
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