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New Duet? MJ + Bruno Mars

dam2040 said:
Estate obviously want commercial success. MJ on his own can't get that anymore.
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That's a lie if they bothered to edit a full Bad tour concert in 4K and show it on cinemas it would be a HUGE commercial success.
 
Blue Criminal said:
Many MJ fans are just pathetic who love to hate on other artists just because they aren't as talented as MJ. Bieber for all his troubles is a talented artist and most important a MJ fan. His version of STTR is easily the best and would have done really well on the charts but MJ fans had to ruin it
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His remix version is in my opinion easily the worst. And Timbaland's version is easily the best one, far superior than all other versions. Opinions.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I think the question is why do you care so much about monetary success? The majority of the people who will be buying a posthumous MJ project don't really care about how much it sells. The estate really need to start doing stuff that respects MJ's art instead of changing and overshadowing it.
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I think you misinterpreted what I meant.

The MJ Estate has been pushing for commercial success with most projects since MJ died and I set out some reasons why they might choose to collaborate with somebody like Bruno, and I addressed the post I quoted saying I thought doing so was not a real disservice to MJ's influence.
In any case, MJ himself craved commercial success. That is what he pushed for himself and formed the basis for key decisions made on albums like Dangerous and BAD. Using Teddy's production skills on Dangerous when NJS became so popular was no coincidence, it is a documented fact that beating Thriller's sales was a key motivator for the BAD album. I think it's a little strange to criticise the MJ Estate for chasing commercial success now MJ's dead.

The MJ Estate has proven it is conscious of what some of the core fan base want by including demo versions of songs on Xscape, but they balance that with an attempt to reach a wider audience with a JT "duet" and more modern production on the songs on the main album. It worked reasonably well for Xscape.
Apart from some songs on the Michael album I think it's a little harsh to say the MJ Estate haven't respected MJ's art. Releasing new versions alongside demos is not "changing" his art. It's supplementing it.

No amount of future releases will detract from the success and achievements of the albums he released while alive.
 
The Xscape album was good at the time it came out but... I just listened to it today and all the song Timbaland did sound dated and took the emotion right out of the songs. Just release as is demos and be done with it.
 
Hulkamaniac said:
That's a lie if they bothered to edit a full Bad tour concert in 4K and show it on cinemas it would be a HUGE commercial success.
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It's not a lie, it's a difference of opinion.
Personally I don't think it would be a huge hit and in any case there are reasons why that kind of release was impossible in 2012, and quite probably still is impossible.
 
no old concert from the 80s would be a "huge" commercial success in cinemas.. It would bring in enough money to be worth the project but to expect huge numbers from a tour thats 30 years old is somewhat wishful thinking and not really realistic.

I'd love it though! and it would not do bad.
 
I think the obsession over "big numbers" is the problem. Nobody should be expecting big numbers from a deceased artist. Especially at the expense of artistic integrity.
 
if we want the off the wall sound, we can listen to that album. why settle for a sound-a-like? bruno's voice blending with Michael's to the point where they're indistinguishable, is what concerns me. Michael only performed with usher and timberlake, he didn't record with them. why does Michael need to be in the charts? is there even enough material to work with to sustain that for decades to come? he is a legend. his influence is everywhere. watch any talent show on tv and you'll see people of all ages and ethnicities paying tribute. he achieved his goal of immortality through his art. anything that comes after simply cheapens him.
 
KOPV said:
no old concert from the 80s would be a "huge" commercial success in cinemas.. It would bring in enough money to be worth the project but to expect huge numbers from a tour thats 30 years old is somewhat wishful thinking and not really realistic.

I'd love it though! and it would not do bad.
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If crappy Star Wars films are being a huge success what makes you think that MJ's best tour in 4K could not be? Literally everybody likes Michael music. Could be just one song or two, but everyone does love his music.
 
^ New Star Wars movies is totally different than releasing something that is 30 years old.. I'll even be gutsy enough to say that a BAD tour release in theaters would not even do as well as This Is It did.. Let alone comparing it to the type of numbers Star Wars brings in. Plus, its a concert - not a movie. A Concert that is on youtube - maybe not THE particular location of the tour but.. You get my point!

There would be a huge selection of people that wont understand the difference (aside from video quality) of BAD TOUR (on youtube) vs. BAD TOUR (in theater).. The average person would not pay that close attention nor would any film company put a large financial dollar on promoting a 30 year old concert.. Have it be MJ or not!
 
^

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Look man, I'm just giving my opinion. Most of you act as if the Estate knew what to release. Don't you all remember they ****ing released the SCREAM album lol. Did they expect that to be a success? That's what I call "wishful thinking and not really realistic."
 
lol just making convo.. Whatever the case - of course I'd want a great theatrical release for an MJ concert..
 
All my moral conflictions aside, I do hope we get some new MJ material released. It'll be nice to hear something new from Michael
 
yeah I need me some new MJ music.. yall know the feeling of hearing something Mike worked on that you never heard before.. It's captivating
 
Hulkamaniac said:
That's a lie if they bothered to edit a full Bad tour concert in 4K and show it on cinemas it would be a HUGE commercial success.
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I don't know about other countries, but today in the USA it is harder to get a big hit movie unless it is superhero, Star Wars, or animated and in a few cases horror. I saw a picture of one theater about a month ago and just about every screen was showing Black Panther. I don't know how many screens the theater had but it was at least 10. Except for a few exceptions, concert movies have never been big box office hits. You can see a concert on Youtube for free, whether it's professionally filmed or audience shot on a phone.
 
sales

SmoothGangsta said:
I think the obsession over "big numbers" is the problem. Nobody should be expecting big numbers from a deceased artist. Especially at the expense of artistic integrity.
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Nobody should expect huge numbers from a current hot living artist either, unless their name is Adele or maybe Taylor Swift & Bruno. A lot of people today don't even download (paid or free) anymore, they stream. A certain amount of streams is considered the equivalent of a sale of one album, and Billboard uses streams now in their chart criteria. In the past, more people had stereos, boomboxes, and Walkmans where you needed a tape, record, or CD. That is not the case today. You don't need to buy a physical product to listen to music on a phone or IPOD. One of the reasons many acts today have to sign 360 deals is because the labels aren't making as much money from album sales, so are now taking money from concerts and merchandising, which the labels had nothing or little to do with decades ago.
 
Re: sales

DuranDuran said:
Nobody should expect huge numbers from a current hot living artist either, unless their name is Adele or maybe Taylor Swift & Bruno. A lot of people today don't even download (paid or free) anymore, they stream. A certain amount of streams is considered the equivalent of a sale of one album, and Billboard uses streams now in their chart criteria. In the past, more people had stereos, boomboxes, and Walkmans where you needed a tape, record, or CD. That is not the case today. You don't need to buy a physical product to listen to music on a phone or IPOD. One of the reasons many acts today have to sign 360 deals is because the labels aren't making as much money from album sales, so are now taking money from concerts and merchandising, which the labels had nothing or little to do with decades ago.
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I don't really see what point you are trying to make here.
 
Re: sales

SmoothGangsta said:
I don't really see what point you are trying to make here.
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The point is that people shouldn't compare how people consume music today to how people did decades ago. If people want to judge the success of music today, going by sales of CDs & records is not really the way to do it, since few albums sell much by that method in this era. You have to go by streaming numbers & sales of digital downloads. If the internet existed in the 1980s, those records wouldn't have sold as much either. Today, there's an entire generation that came up post-Napster with free downloads and then streaming. So they never got into the habit of buying a physical item for music. They're into buying video games though. I read an article recently that said Grand Theft Auto 5 has sold 90 million copies and made more money than any movie or other kind of entertainment in history.
 
its a stream/digital world now, no one is buying physical discs, even video games can be Downloaded without the disc... Duran is right, we cant measure success the same way at all! There is a reason Michael himself wanted to leave the game of chasing album sales..

These debates between DVD, BluRay etc. is dated.. just go into any store that sold movies and CDs, some stopped selling them completely. Those who still have, shrunk those sections big time.. Record stores are pretty much a thing of the past.. Blockbuster stores are gone for a reason..
 
Re: sales

DuranDuran said:
The point is that people shouldn't compare how people consume music today to how people did decades ago. If people want to judge the success of music today, going by sales of CDs & records is not really the way to do it, since few albums sell much by that method in this era. You have to go by streaming numbers & sales of digital downloads. If the internet existed in the 1980s, those records wouldn't have sold as much either. Today, there's an entire generation that came up post-Napster with free downloads and then streaming. So they never got into the habit of buying a physical item for music. They're into buying video games though. I read an article recently that said Grand Theft Auto 5 has sold 90 million copies and made more money than any movie or other kind of entertainment in history.
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I get that, I just don't see what it has to do with the discussion of prioritising sales over artistic integrity. Which is what the comment you replied to was discussing. I'm a little confused.
 
^ the estate should be prioritizing sales WITH artistic integrity.. The tricky part is, they may have a different view of what would be considered artistic integrity than us big fan.

There will always be us fans judging every move the estate makes.. Even if a new group got hands on it. We come from a very different perspective than the music business. We heavily weigh on "integrity" and exclude business simply because we are fans from our hearts.. not our pockets! We're not trying to run a business, we're trying to add to our collection lol
 
xscape guy 2003 said:
Also if the estate had a unreleased ballad then I think Miley's voice would be fantastic melded with Michaels.

I for one would love to have a banging summer hit by these 2 great voices.
(
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Finally a MJ fan who doesn't hate on Miley. I love Miley too and I think her voice and MJ's voice would complement each other really well in a ballad. And like Bruno, she loves MJ too and even has a tattoo of MJ's Bad album on her finger.
 
Look people, this is 2018. MJ has been dead for nearly 9 years and as a result can’t promote his music. A solo MJ song won’t even crack the top 20 in most music markets, especially the major markets such as US, UK, Australian etc. So for MJ to have a hit song in 2018, he needs to be featured in a song with a big contemporary artist and Bruno Mars is the perfect choice.

Now, some of you may ask, why does MJ need to have a hit song? Why do the charts matter? I hope you guys realise that first and foremost, Estate and Sony are a business and they wanna maximise the profits from their products and investments. Secondly, MJ himself cared about chart success. You guys think Michael didn’t care about having hit songs and albums? Of course he did.

So I implore MJ fans to stop complaining and be supportive of this project, should it happen.
 
Blue Criminal;4221224 said:
Look people, this is 2018. MJ has been dead for nearly 9 years and as a result can’t promote his music. A solo MJ song won’t even crack the top 20 in most music markets, especially the major markets such as US, UK, Australian etc. So for MJ to have a hit song in 2018, he needs to be featured in a song with a big contemporary artist and Bruno Mars is the perfect choice.

Now, some of you may ask, why does MJ need to have a hit song? Why do the charts matter? I hope you guys realise that first and foremost, Estate and Sony are a business and they wanna maximise the profits from their products and investments. Secondly, MJ himself cared about chart success. You guys think Michael didn’t care about having hit songs and albums? Of course he did.

So I implore MJ fans to stop complaining and be supportive of this project, should it happen.
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I've already given the reasons I'm not happy about this sort of stuff. As you said, MJ is dead. There is no need to be disrespecting his art by remixing it and erasing his past work. Adding a current artist isn't necessary, maybe it is if all you care about is chart success but I don't think that's the way to be with an artist's legacy at all.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I've already given the reasons I'm not happy about this sort of stuff. As you said, MJ is dead. There is no need to be disrespecting his art by remixing it and erasing his past work. Adding a current artist isn't necessary, maybe it is if all you care about is chart success but I don't think that's the way to be with an artist's legacy at all.
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Look, MJ cared about chart success. It's clear that the bulk of MJ fans care about chart success - it's so obvious in any discussion about MJ's achievements. The MJ Estate cares about chart success. The MJ Estate is a business and chart success = revenue.

I haven't seen any sign of the MJ Estate erasing MJ's past work. Quite the contrary, the MJ Estate has focused primarily on promoting MJ's past work! While MJ's albums keep selling, therefore performing well on the charts, whether it be for new releases or catalogue albums then the MJ Estate will keep releasing products. If sales shows there is still an interest in MJ then it broadens the scope of the type of products the MJ Estate can release. Typically MJ merchandise is less visible and less available in the shops than for other acts but with the release of commercially successful products that could begin to change.

Anyway that's drifting from the point slightly. The MJ Estate will continue to find ways to draw in a new audience for MJ, to further his legacy and provide longevity to the business, and that is precisely what he set the MJ Estate up to do.

MJ fans need to be very mindful that they have damaged the MJ Estate's revenue streams in the past by boycotting or being overly negative with regard to the choices made.

For example, we already discussed the Bieber remix but it's relevant here. Many believe it to have been an officially commissioned project (it's too coincidental not to be), which was growing real momentum and had the chance to really impact the charts - more than any other MJ single release since his death! It was pulled because of the fans' behaviour. The JT version of LNFSG was a minor hit in many places. It was good promo for MJ and Xscape. APWNN bombed. But if LNFSG had been followed up (or preceded by) the JB version of STTR then it would have been good promo for the Xscape album but also for MJ himself. Until it was pulled, the JB version of STTR was gaining more momentum and more support than the JT version of LNFSG ever accomplished.

MJ fans can continue to damage the MJ Estate or they can support it. A successful Estate can give you more of what you want, even if some of the products released don't appeal to you. A commercially unviable estate can't give you anything. Everybody has a choice.
 
MJTruth said:
Look, MJ cared about chart success. It's clear that the bulk of MJ fans care about chart success - it's so obvious in any discussion about MJ's achievements. The MJ Estate cares about chart success. The MJ Estate is a business and chart success = revenue.

I haven't seen any sign of the MJ Estate erasing MJ's past work. Quite the contrary, the MJ Estate has focused primarily on promoting MJ's past work! While MJ's albums keep selling, therefore performing well on the charts, whether it be for new releases or catalogue albums then the MJ Estate will keep releasing products. If sales shows there is still an interest in MJ then it broadens the scope of the type of products the MJ Estate can release. Typically MJ merchandise is less visible and less available in the shops than for other acts but with the release of commercially successful products that could begin to change.

Anyway that's drifting from the point slightly. The MJ Estate will continue to find ways to draw in a new audience for MJ, to further his legacy and provide longevity to the business, and that is precisely what he set the MJ Estate up to do.

MJ fans need to be very mindful that they have damaged the MJ Estate's revenue streams in the past by boycotting or being overly negative with regard to the choices made.

For example, we already discussed the Bieber remix but it's relevant here. Many believe it to have been an officially commissioned project (it's too coincidental not to be), which was growing real momentum and had the chance to really impact the charts - more than any other MJ single release since his death! It was pulled because of the fans' behaviour. The JT version of LNFSG was a minor hit in many places. It was good promo for MJ and Xscape. APWNN bombed. But if LNFSG had been followed up (or preceded by) the JB version of STTR then it would have been good promo for the Xscape album but also for MJ himself. Until it was pulled, the JB version of STTR was gaining more momentum and more support than the JT version of LNFSG ever accomplished.

MJ fans can continue to damage the MJ Estate or they can support it. A successful Estate can give you more of what you want, even if some of the products released don't appeal to you. A commercially unviable estate can't give you anything. Everybody has a choice.
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MJ cared about chart success on things he had made himself. Those were his achievements. Remixing his unfinished work (probably into an unrecognisable state) and releasing it with an artist he never worked with is a bit different I think. I don't think that wanting projects that respect MJ as an artist is "damaging his estate". The Bieber remix is not at all a respectful way to manage MJ's unfinished work imo. Anyway, this could go on for another 5 pages this will be the last I say on the matter.
 
It’s funny how the business works. You are right the JB mix of STTR would have been a massive hit. He is far more popular the JT. JT it seems his time has came and gone. His new album bombed. He needed Chris Stapleton on say something to have a hit. Although I’m not a big fan of Bruno he would be the guy to go with for a hit song. If this is true I will give it a fair shot. Not a fan of fake duets but we will see what happens.
 
I will hear it with an open mind and hope for the best.

I really like LNFSG with JT - great summer song.
 
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