New Official "Say Say Say" Remix Coming October 2015

Im only a big fan in the last 4 years I'd say. Hopefully this tour will branch out and we will both be happy. I need to hear Helter Skelter live. I need to.

I've liked them since ~2010, slowly liking more of their music over time until late 2013/early 2014 when Beatlemania pretty much took over me and it hasn't stopped since haha. They're the only artist who makes me feel as happy as MJ does :)

Helter Skelter's been my jam for the past week actually. Glorious track. I've always wanted to be part of a huge crowd singing 'Hey Jude', there's nothing more beautiful than a whole crowd of thousands and thousands of people singing together! Very overwhelming.
 
I've liked them since ~2010, slowly liking more of their music over time until late 2013/early 2014 when Beatlemania pretty much took over me and it hasn't stopped since haha. They're the only artist who makes me feel as happy as MJ does :)

Helter Skelter's been my jam for the past week actually. Glorious track. I've always wanted to be part of a huge crowd singing 'Hey Jude', there's nothing more beautiful than a whole crowd of thousands and thousands of people singing together! Very overwhelming.

This, just this....

Although I think what I want mostly is the mass blaring sing along to "BOOOOOOOY YOU'RE GONNA CARRY THAT WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIGHT....."

And to hear, in my opinion, the greatest goodbye any musical act has ever left the world with "And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"

Ah, to dream.....
 
Aww! This short take is just :O I like it, but... it's hard waiting 'til October :( Thank you for the info ;)

L.O.V.E.
 
I am surprised the conversation turned to Michael and Sir Paul's relationship and the Sony/ATV catalog. It is a classic case of a person making a mistake, not holding grudges and everything happening for a reason.

Sir Paul made a mistake in not purchasing ATV when giving the opportunity however; he was clearly not worthy to be its owner (as life has it, he did not know that at the time). He allowed his bruised ego to speak for him and encouraged others to believe Michael somehow stole the catalog. Very few listened to Yoko Ono who expressed gratitude in the eventual outcome (another, i.e. Michael, purchasing the catalog). Paul did not understand that it was not sufficient to simply own a catalog. The catalog has to be profitable and the key to that profitability is licensing. Despite what is believed, no song in a catalog is sacred. The songs must be licensed for profit. The hope is that the license is done with respect and Michael/Sony did that. The Sony/ATV catalog would not be successful with arguing partners Sir Paul and Ono.

Sir Paul has shown with the Pipes Of Peace offering that his respect for his work triumphs any past hurt he may have experienced due to his own actions. That is commendable and the public can enjoy the results with this stellar offering.
 
I am surprised the conversation turned to Michael and Sir Paul's relationship and the Sony/ATV catalog. It is a classic case of a person making a mistake, not holding grudges and everything happening for a reason.

Sir Paul made a mistake in not purchasing ATV when giving the opportunity however; he was clearly not worthy to be its owner (as life has it, he did not know that at the time). He allowed his bruised ego to speak for him and encouraged others to believe Michael somehow stole the catalog. Very few listened to Yoko Ono who expressed gratitude in the eventual outcome (another, i.e. Michael, purchasing the catalog). Paul did not understand that it was not sufficient to simply own a catalog. The catalog has to be profitable and the key to that profitability is licensing. Despite what is believed, no song in a catalog is sacred. The songs must be licensed for profit. The hope is that the license is done with respect and Michael/Sony did that. The Sony/ATV catalog would not be successful with arguing partners Sir Paul and Ono.

Sir Paul has shown with the Pipes Of Peace offering that his respect for his work triumphs any past hurt he may have experienced due to his own actions. That is commendable and the public can enjoy the results with this stellar offering.


Paul McCartney did not make a "mistake" in not purchasing the catalogue.. Michael outbid him! Paul was trying to buy it, and that's why he got all 'butt hurt' about it. If someone can't understand at least Pauls point of view that is having a bias mindset..

Michael did buy it from under him. Sneaky status! I'm glad he did lol! but to say that wasn't a bit shiesty is not being fair to both people... In the end of the day it was one of MJ's best business decisions but I can understand why Paul got hurt over it...
 
KOPV;4101946 said:
Paul McCartney did not make a "mistake" in not purchasing the catalogue.. Michael outbid him! Paul was trying to buy it, and that's why he got all 'butt hurt' about it. If someone can't understand at least Pauls point of view that is having a bias mindset..

Michael did buy it from under him. Sneaky status!

That Michael bought it from under Paul in a sneaky way while poor Paul was trying to buy it is nothing but a media myth.

Clipboard.jpg


https://books.google.hu/books?id=JH...QR_#v=onepage&q=Holmes à Court branca&f=false




To this day, 25 years later, it’s still evident Branca and his law partners remain sensitive to Paul McCartney’s stinging accusation that his one-time friend Jackson had stabbed him in the back.“Paul’s representatives were very aware of what was going on,” said Stiffelman, Branca's law partner. “The part that always bothered me was the accusation that Michael stole it from under McCartney.”
Branca also had been careful to seek the blessing of Yoko Ono. She reportedly was thrilled that a corporation wouldn’t own the catalogue and hadn't wanted the headache herself of teaming with McCartney for a joint bid.

http://www.thewrap.com/michael-jackson-3-getting-beatles-cataglogue-22422/
 
I find it funny and a little maddening that people still think Michael stole the songs or outbid Paul for the songs and that's really perpetuated by Paul himself-he goes back and forth on the story of the sale, depending on who his audience is. In reality, he was offered the right of first refusal.

This clip was on Australian TV after Michael died and around 3:13, de la Court's attorney talks about the sale. And he says they offered the catalog to Paul-they gave him the right of first refusal.

The rest of the clip is Michael's visit to the Perth Telethon, that he had to do to clinch the deal. It's a little maddening to hear de la Court's widow talk about Michael being socially awkward and being afraid of the sun, etc. because anyone can see that he was utterly charming and kind to do this at all-and appear at their cocktail party, etc. She even had evidence of the skin disease when she took him to an antique book store and he purchased a 19th century book on skin diseases. But I think a lot of what they are saying is colored by the tabloid stories through the years, as well as the paradox of Michael, being shy and quiet in real life and a sexual hurricane on stage.



And to this day, I see NOTHING wrong with using "Revolution" as a Nike commercial-that's how songs get known to young people, as well as bring the products to the attention to people who originally loved the song.

State Farm used "I'll Be There" a few years ago, and I loved it. Target's using "ABC" right now for back to school commercials I like it.

Edited to add: how cute does he look in this hat????
 
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Respect77, Barbee0715, I appreciate your posts showing Michael did not somehow steal the catalog from Sir Paul.

Sir Paul was obviously angry at himself and that manifested in his rude comments about Michael. Allow me to also add that many in the media supported Sir Paul’s comments because it was not acceptable to many that an African-American male was the sole owner of what was considered the Holy Grail of music publishing catalogs.
 
Tygger;4101987 said:
Respect77, Barbee0715, I appreciate your posts showing Michael did not somehow steal the catalog from Sir Paul.

Sir Paul was obviously angry at himself and that manifested in his rude comments about Michael. Allow me to also add that many in the media supported Sir Paul’s comments because it was not acceptable to many that an African-American male was the sole owner of what was considered the Holy Grail of music publishing catalogs.
I agree with that-and here's a vid of Paul helping that along whining about the sale. Even though he concedes that it was a business deal and Michael had every right to do it, the reporter wants to talk about using the songs in commercials, etc. and Paul just feeds it. He also acts like Michael bought the songs within a few months of their discussion on owning catalogs and that's not true either-it actually took more than a year to seal that deal. He really just says whatever and exaggerates the story.

[video=youtube;HJ9LnYYUA6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9LnYYUA6E[/video]

I wonder if any of the songwriters complained about Paul owning their songs. I never heard any.
 
Apologies: it would be remiss for me to not also add: some media placed focus on Branca being the mastermind behind securing the catalog which effectively takes focus from Michael being the owner and credit from Michael for making the personal decision to purchase the catalog and being a gifted, educated businessman.

I will not diminish Branca’s role in securing the catalog for Michael however; Branca was Michael’s lawyer at the time and was being compensated to secure the catalog. My point is: Michael wanted the catalog and would have it regardless of who his lawyer was.

Barbee0715, yes, Paul fed the media who fed others fears that Michael was not a worthy owner of the catalog. Michael received quite a bit of backlash for agreeing to Revolution being licensed to Nike. Reports portrayed Michael as being disrespectful of other artists' work which was completely untrue.
 
Michael just really took the high road with all of this, as he did with all aspects of his life and career. Another reason to admire him.

I think Branca did a good job on the diligence and negotiations, but I do remember the note that Michael gave him not to lose the deal. (When he thought Branca was playing too tough).
 
Michael just really took the high road with all of this, as he did with all aspects of his life and career. Another reason to admire him.

I think Branca did a good job on the diligence and negotiations, but I do remember the note that Michael gave him not to lose the deal. (When he thought Branca was playing too tough).

beatles-katalogus.jpg
 
Barbee0715, I am sure no one believes anyone is diminishing Branca’s role in securing the catalog. However; your point and Respect77’s picture post supports the point I was making. The purchase of the catalog was Michael’s decision but, he receives very little credit for it. Notice his comment: "it's my catalogue."

I believe the Johnson Michael is referring to is John Johnson, founder/owner of Ebony/Jet who was a financial mentor for Michael.
 
Yes, Tygger I was backing up what you were saying with the example of the note that no matter what atty, Michael was going to buy that catalog. And respect provided the exact note I was referring to.

He's determined by even writing at the bottom about Johnson lost lots of good deals by too hard negotiation. Obviously directing Branca.

And yes-that same Mr Johnson. :)
 
And to this day, I see NOTHING wrong with using "Revolution" as a Nike commercial-that's how songs get known to young people, as well as bring the products to the attention to people who originally loved the song.

State Farm used "I'll Be There" a few years ago, and I loved it. Target's using "ABC" right now for back to school commercials I like it.

That's not good enough of a reason though. We're not talking about any old artist, we're talking about The Beatles. Like Michael's their music is timeless and doesn't need to be put on commercials for younger generations to discover (which is especially evident nowadays). There's a good amount of music I know that's been ruined for me because of their constant use in an ad campaign. I literally can't hear the song without thinking of the brand (which is of course why the brand does it) and its cheapened the music experience for me when I hear them. I don't want the same to happen to The Beatles and they didn't either.

At the time Michael had every right to allow Nike the rights to use that song, but just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should do it. He went against and disrespected most of the band all to make some money (I say most as all 3 remaining Beatles protested it. Not sure what John would think but Yoko liked it). I feel that if you own the rights to someone's art, you should be respectful of their wishes when trying to make a profit of it (and obviously I'm not against Michael making a profit off his investments as this is the only part of the deal I object to).
 
And yes-that same Mr Johnson. :)

Indeed! Many believe Sir Paul when he stated he encouraged Michael to look towards music publishing. It was most likely Johnson. Regardless, it was Michael who made the decision to make the catalog his.

HIStoric, I understand this is your view however; the Beatles' music is not considered sacred by all others and do not see such songs being licensed as disrespectful. Michael's music was used in commercials while he was living and he was aware of the benefits of such. His music continues to be used commercially after his passing. It would be interesting to know what Sir Paul's views are now regarding that as it did not have the negative results many felt it would have (including Sir Paul).

By the way, Michael also returned publishing rights to Sly Stone and Little Richard in tribute to them because it meant that much to him. That is not someone who is disrespectful of other artists.
 
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HIStoric, I understand this is your view however; the Beatles' music is not considered sacred by all others and do not see such songs being licensed as disrespectful. Michael's music was used in commercials while he was living and he was aware of the benefits of such. His music continues to be used commercially after his passing. It would be interesting to know what Sir Paul's views are now regarding that as it did not have the negative results many felt it would have (including Sir Paul).

Naturally I understand that not everyone holds The Beatles music as 'sacred' and I don't expect them to. I don't think you need to even like the Beatles to agree with their point of view. I just merely think that if someone buys the art of someone else, they should respect that artist's wishes. I suppose it's like what happened between Weird Al and MJ with Black or White. He asked Michael if he could parody that song (and legally he had every right to) but Michael said no. Weird Al was respectful and, upon the wishes of the artist, didn't make a parody of it. I feel that's how Michael should've acted in this situation. Just respect the artists, you know?

I am aware of the benefits (and there were some I'm sure) but I am also aware of the potential disadvantages it holds too. I feel that The Beatles were just mainly afraid that their music would start to become commercialised a lot more. George Harrison said "If it's allowed to happen, every Beatles song ever recorded is going to be advertising women's underwear and sausages. We've got to put a stop to it in order to set a precedent. Otherwise it's going to be a free-for-all. It's one thing when you're dead, but we're still around! They don't have any respect for the fact that we wrote and recorded those songs, and it was our lives." and I can understand that as they were against doing commercials from the very beginning.

It's not that I see the music as 'too sacred' to be used, I'm just merely siding with the artists who worked hard to create this art. Nothing more, nothing less. I'd do it for any artist, so long as the request is reasonable and I believe this request is. That's all it comes down to for me and if someone still doesn't agree, then well ya know, so be it.

I too would be keen to know Paul's current views on the situation. I think he would still be against the use in commercials, but given that I think Him, Ringo and the Estates of John/George now have to give permission on top of Sony/MJ's Estate, he probably isn't that worried now. It seems he got over Michael's buying of the catalogue in the few years after it happened.

By the way, Michael also returned publishing rights to Sly Stone and Little Richard in tribute to them because it meant that much to him. That is not someone who is disrespectful of other artists.

That's great but being respectful to one artist doesn't cancel out the fact he was disrespectful in this particular case. However, I want to make it clear that I'm glad Michael did get the rights because on the whole he did respect them more than some random guy in a suit would. He understood how important this music was. Minus the whole Revolution/Nike fiasco, I am happy with MJ's treatment of the rights and feel that he was respectful on the whole. :)
 
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I think the Beatles' point about Revolution is understandable and acceptable. But all in all Michael treated their legacy well. Let's not forget that the value of the catalog increased a lot while in his possession. There have been numerous projects that Beatles fans can only be satisfied with from Anthology to 1 to all the other reissues etc. Those all happened while the catalog was in MJ-Sony possession. I don't remember any such highly successful projects from before.
 
I think the Beatles' point about Revolution is understandable and acceptable. But all in all Michael treated their legacy well. Let's not forget that the value of the catalog increased a lot while in his possession. There have been numerous projects that Beatles fans can only be satisfied with from Anthology to 1 to all the other reissues etc. Those all happened while the catalog was in MJ-Sony possession. I don't remember any such highly successful projects from before.

Agreed :)

Do you know what the deal is when they want to do a new project? Like do they have to get permission from MJ/Sony when they release a new album? I've always read about various releases being stopped because one or more of The Beatles objected to a release, but I've never heard of a project not going ahead because MJ/Sony didn't give the go ahead so I'm not really sure...
 
Historic, I understand your view however; there is no obligation to respect someone's wishes when they are not the owner of an asset. I do not believe Michael was disrespectful using Revolution. The living Beatles members rightfully had concerns about their art however; their personal ties to the art did not allow them to be objective to its commercial use. They lacked trust in Michael/Sony to be respectful of their art and that was the root of their frustration

I do not remember any negative consequences to the use of Revolution. I do remember increased exposure for the song which may be linked to increased awareness and sales.

By the way, Sony/ATV owns the music publishing for the Beatles, not the masters.
 
After this discussion I went to YouTube yesterday to watch the commercial and I still think it was respectful. Reading the comments over there led me to some research that I didn't remember:

The 3 surviving Beatles sued Nike, EMI and Capitol records (own the recording rights). Yoko had given approval. It was settled out of court.

Oddly they didn't sue ATV/Michael.

I still don't mind songs being used for commercials. I heard the Target ABC commercial about 500 times yesterday. Made me think of Michael, not Target. Guess it depends on both the song and the commercial/product itself.
 
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Revolution

I think the issue with Revolution was that the Beatles actual recording was used and also the message of the song used to sell sneakers. It's kind of like using Strange Fruit by Billie Holiday to sell bananas or orange juice. Or Marvin Gaye's What's Going On used in a shampoo ad. It doesn't seem that appropriate. I don't think there would have been as much of an outcry by the group and the public if Ob La Di Ob La Da was used. There's been other commercials with remakes by jingle singers, but I don't think there's any other commmercials that use The Beatles recordings. The Beatles have approved the use of their songs in the Rock Band video game and the Love Cirque du Soleil show, but those are not commercials though.
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Someone mentioned Weird Al. He did do the Black Or White parody. He didn't record it, but he performed it in concert in the early 1990s. It's called Snack All Night.
 
By the way, Sony/ATV owns the music publishing for the Beatles, not the masters.

Yeah I just googled the difference and what rights each entails. To answer my question above, as The Beatles are the rightsholders to the actual recordings of the music, they wouldn't need permission when releasing their own material :)
 
^^Good post and good example with Strange Fruit. I think it definitely depends on both the song and the commercial itself.
 
Let's not leave out the one Beatle, who recently celebrated his 75th birthday, Ringo Starr...



Ringo Starr performs "With a Little Help from my friends" at the Michael Jackson and Friends concert in Munich 1999


Okay, back to why "Say Say Say" is more autobiographical/fantasy of Michael Jackson. He really was the adoptive son, of Paul and Linda McCartney and we even get to visit the orphanage of said adoptee. Hence, why Paul even talked about how Michael bought the place that "Say Say Say" was filmed at, which became "Neverland." Now I'm going to cry. Michael loved the McCartney's so much, because he was treated like family. I can only stand in the middle of the crowd, close to the stage and admire Paul McCartney singing, playing and performing for 3 hours and Michael gets to interact with the McCartney's like a long, lost child come a home. Waa Waa Waa!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezLuZEQ1b3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjDm8EuMLV0

http://anthony-king.com/michaeljacksonarticles/michael-jackson-and-friends-1999-charity-concerts/
 
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