Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?

felipemj;3761638 said:
I don't care about the numbers. I care about truth or lie


a succesfull musician doesn't have any kind of threat to offer to anybody. People created stories to make MJ life look more intersting than it was so readers would buy them.


No, that question was made to prove your point didn't have any logic. An argument is won when you nullify the points, not when you spend time judging people intentions. Truth said by a bad intentioned thief keeps being a truth, as stupidity said by a genius keeps being stupidity. I'm not even in the 1 billion discussion... I'm here because the point that Thriller sold 40 million singles is absurd, and that makes the 100 million mark a lie.

this is in another post. By the way, reading it now: by your logic, had Michael died in the 90's, they wouldn't do it because he didn't have sold 1 billion yet...

you are full of contradictions.

ok, you lost me and started not to make sense when you claim writers make Michael more interesting than 'he is', as far as you are concerned, while you are a member on this board.(which says it all about your posts)

on the point of a successful musician being a threat to people who are simply threatened by success, you clearly haven't been watching the life of Michael.

ok. it's clear you want to argue just for the sake of arguing, insult where it's not called for and not acknowledge logic that's there. so i quit with those kind of things. have a nice day.

i mean, after all, your claiming i had your idea of a form of logic and then saying i had no logic, in the same post, says it all.
 
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felipemj;3761638 said:
a succesfull musician doesn't have any kind of threat to offer to anybody. People created stories to make MJ life look more intersting than it was so readers would buy them.

Look again at what you wrote there ^^ and look at Michael's life story and how it is devalued and you will see that indeed any person whether he is a musician or not can be seen as a threat, and depending who has power in society you will be attacked. Actually I find this is a strange statement of yours to be found in a thread like this when so many threads in this forum shows how people perceived Michael as a threat.

What happened to Michael was horrible and horrific, and should not be relegated to mere making up stories to make things interesting so people can buy papers.

Oh 144,000 I just looked back at your post after responding and saw we had the same point.
 
Like I said before, I do believe Thriller has sold such amount of copies, regardless if it's true or not, it's racist this kind of articles question Michael's sales all over the world while prises white performers.
 
popcorn-MJ.gif
 
144 said:
you are full of contradictions.

ok, you lost me and started not to make sense when you claim writers make Michael more interesting than 'he is', as far as you are concerned, while you are a member on this board.(which says it all about your posts)

on the point of a successful musician being a threat to people who are simply threatened by success, you clearly haven't been watching the life of Michael.

ok. it's clear you want to argue just for the sake of arguing, insult where it's not called for and not acknowledge logic that's there. so i quit with those kind of things. have a nice day.

i mean, after all, your claiming i had your idea of a form of logic and then saying i had no logic, in the same post, says it all.

I'm not liking this discussion also. So I won't point at you anymore and just explain the things I said you didn't understand.
When I said I don't care about the numbers, I'm saying I don't root for him sell or not. What I care is fans bashing a journalist for doing his work and repeating things that aren't true.
The bolded "yet" is inside the "if your logic was true" context... didn't mean I believe he ended selling 1 billion nor meant your logic isn't false (cause everybody knows the Jacksons would act exactly like now had him died in the 90s). By the way, saying something doesn't have logic is the same that saying it has a false logic... there's no such thing as "different form of logic", it's true or false.
 
felipemj;3761676 said:
I'm not liking this discussion also. So I won't point at you anymore and just explain the things I said you didn't understand.
When I said I don't care about the numbers, I'm saying I don't root for him sell or not. What I care is fans bashing a journalist for doing his work and repeating things that aren't true.
The bolded "yet" is inside the "if your logic was true" context... didn't mean I believe he ended selling 1 billion nor meant your logic isn't false (cause everybody knows the Jacksons would act exactly like now had him died in the 90s). By the way, saying something doesn't have logic is the same that saying it has a false logic... there's no such thing as "different form of logic", it's true or false.




i said i was heading out...didn't say it was my last post.

so, what you say is total truth and not an opinion and whoever disagrees with you is wrong. sure. yeah right.:rolleyes:

not.

you generalizing what you think everybody knows about the Jacksons in the 90's in a what-if situation..you don't know because it didn't happen. you don't know what everybody knows or doesn't know, in order for you to be generalizing for everybody.
 
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What I care is fans bashing a journalist for doing his work--felipemj

The whole point is this journalist Bill Wyman is NOT doing his work, which is to try and report the facts or the best truth to be found. And you are doing the same thing when you say the "40 million" number is "absurd." Huh??? You give NO evidence. Why is your OPINION and assertion enough to make your case? Are you an expert? What are your credentials? The Guinness Book of Records gave Michael the Diamond ward in 2006 for selling 104 million albums of Thriller, so what is your evidence that this reputable organization with bona fide credentials made a huge mistake, such that the sales of even 40 million are "absurd." I am guessing you have none, since you have not posted anything except a statement of your opinion.

Bill Wyman also gives precious little evidence, although he at least names one single source to back him up, a person called Viera, whom he relies upon for sales figures. Why is this person, living in France, given such status? Why is he more believable than the Guinness Book of Records and the World Music Awards? Bill Wyman doesn't address this. He doesn't even mention that Michael received the World Music Awards Diamond Award for over 100 million album sales of Thriller in 2006. Thriller was released in 1982, 30 years ago, and it was a musical tidal wave that hit the world. But according to you, selling 40 million albums in 30 years worldwide is absurd! No, I think your argument is absurd.
 
Jamba, you didn't read what I wrote. The 40 million that differs the Guinness from previous numbers are from "estimations" of singles sellings (they said it were 104 million records, not albums). But the fact, that I already told and you didn't read also, is Billie Jean and Beat It(the best selling ones) had sold only 1 million each in USA until 1989. It would require a miracle to hit 40 million without any promotion and with the CD album coasting 10 bucks.

ps.: in Brazil CD singles don't even exist
 
felipemj;3761704 said:
Jamba, you didn't read what I wrote. The 40 million that differs the Guinness from previous numbers are from "estimations" of singles sellings (they said it were 104 million records, not albums). But the fact, that I already told and you didn't read also, is Billie Jean and Beat It(the best selling ones) had sold only 1 million each in USA until 1989. It would require a miracle to hit 40 million without any promotion and with the CD album coasting 10 bucks.

ps.: in Brazil CD singles don't even exist

i don't know what is the relevance of distinguishing between units of a recording, here...whether they be cd's vinyl or files.

One thing for sure..
A person will only go as far as their mind will take them, in beliefs or non beliefs.

I'll go on a limb and say Michael's mind had to be vast in believing...he said so...in order for him to achieve what he achieved, to the point, that people who don't believe he achieved what he achieved are on his fansites, talking about him.

I venture to say that if he didn't believe, then he wouldn't have had the success that some people don't believe he got.

The irony. Of course, you're welcome to deny it, but everybody, that i have seen, or heard of... who didn't believe he achieved a billion in sales, has a copy of some of MJ's music.

I mean..who makes the effort to come to an MJ site, if they're not interested in buying his music..even if they don't like it? How else are they so able to dissect his music, if they didn't buy it?
And if you're going to say..'i listen to radio a lot'...well..you wouldn't have control over when they play it..as rarely as they play it..which is not enough to dissect it.

Not that i ever heard of someone listening incessantly to MJ's music on the radio..but not buying it.

hmm.

...Just sayin.

I know i wouldn't be here, if i didn't buy his music. It would take too much effort to be interested...if..i wasn't...interested.

It always amuses me when somebody diminishes Michael's sales, while having a copy of his music. That's at least one point against their argument. And one point is enough for me. It's like the fly in the ointment. It only takes one to spoil the whole ointment...or strength of the argument. By virtue of that reality alone, that person doesn't make sense. It's like they're arguing against themselves...arguing against their purchased copy of Michael's music. That's what they're doing.

What they did in front of the sales clerk, or at iTunes, or the like, is their best argument for or against their argument.

I mean, how can you be believed on others diminishing MJ's sales whether those people like, don't like or are supposedly indifferent about Michael, when you couldn't even diminish your part in trying to diminish his sales?

People talking about a 'spell', can't be wrong, although they may hate...because they admit, they bought his music..though that wasn't their intent.
But people buying his music can be wrong, if they say his sales are diminished. There's logic, for you.

I mean, if I'm going to argue that his sales are diminished by any stretch, the first thing I want to do is check myself, and make sure I never bought any of Michael's music, in my entire life, before I speak.

But people believe what they want to believe...Fack...strangers argue with Paris about her own dad, so I don't know why I keep going on about here...

It ain't hurtin Paris' financial comfort..and there are enough of us believing the billion, the forty million and the legit sources backing it up not to worry about those who don't believe, and we're all consumers who bought his music, points toward that billion and there's something seamless about that statement, and to me, that's more legit than any fact or figure so..

Fack it..

So, congratulations to the guy who was big enough to be the biggest to be able to buy the majority of his competitors' catalogues, and could have kept on bidding, if his competitors were willing to compete, and he helped make Sony the biggest ever, and he restored so many of his contemporaries' 'monies from the past, and everybody wanted to join and partner with him as opposed to him wanting to partner with them..and there's something..billionesque about that. You'd have to have sold a billion to have that power. There's your miracle. Michael Jackson. 40 million on Thriller is just a part of that.
 
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jamba;3761695 said:
What I care is fans bashing a journalist for doing his work--felipemj

The whole point is this journalist Bill Wyman is NOT doing his work,

^^Thanks I was going to report on that sentence & saw you handled it expertly. We have seen so many journalist doing shoddy unethical work, that maybe some of us forgot what a true journalist is. This guy is definitely not in the true journalist category because he puts too much of his personal biases & hatred into what he is reporting.

He can do a good job of this by the way, by clearly stating the facts, show how sales numbers are gathered, state the numbers record companies sent out by doing some real work & contacting them, give factual information on all the other regions in the world that records were sent to. Then he makes an unbiased conclusion and STATE the limitations of his work, that is, what hindered his conclusion to make it not 100% accurate. Then he brings in the problems with checking exact numbers from other regions, which he encountered. If he did that & came up with a figure less than 100 mil, I would accept his work. Right now this work he presented is sloppy. Too many journalist want to do write ups on topics they know nothing about, without doing some hard research. This idea of doing a story by looking all over the internet at tabloids & fan clubs and presenting it as a masterpiece is embarrassing. You get the feeling that this story was created by doing 2 hours or less research on the internet.
 
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felipemj;3761704 said:
Jamba, you didn't read what I wrote. The 40 million that differs the Guinness from previous numbers are from "estimations" of singles sellings (they said it were 104 million records, not albums). But the fact, that I already told and you didn't read also, is Billie Jean and Beat It(the best selling ones) had sold only 1 million each in USA until 1989. It would require a miracle to hit 40 million without any promotion and with the CD album coasting 10 bucks.

ps.: in Brazil CD singles don't even exist

(they said it were 104 million records, not albums) Well. felipemj, The Guinness Diamond award is for albums sold, not records, according to the Wikipedia quote I cited earlier.

So you are from Brasil??.
 
Sometimes objectivity crosses its limits to the point were it seems to become hatred/envy..even from so called fans as I can see..we don't need any more of that, it's enough with people like this so-called journalist, thank you. :smilerolleyes:
 
jamba;3761953 said:
(they said it were 104 million records, not albums) Well. felipemj, The Guinness Diamond award is for albums sold, not records, according to the Wikipedia quote I cited earlier.

So you are from Brasil??.

well, the source the wikipedia writer uses is http://web.archive.org/web/20080204051554/http://www.chiff.com/pop-culture/world-music-awards.htm which says 50 million albums. He/she clearly wrote what was in the head.
I'm unable to find articles from the time, like the guinness word, that is the only one that matters. I'm speaking from my memory, and I remember even the forums(I don't rememer if it was here or mjhispano) were talking about the album vs records thing

yes, I am from Brasil
 
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felipemj;3762012 said:
well, the source the wikipedia writer uses is http://web.archive.org/web/20080204051554/http://www.chiff.com/pop-culture/world-music-awards.htm which says 50 million albums. He/she clearly wrote what was in the head.
I'm unable to find articles from the time, like the guinness word, that is the only one that matters. I'm speaking from my memory, and I remember even the forums(I don't rememer if it was here or mjhispano) were talking about the album vs records thing

yes, I am from Brasil

Hi, felipemj, the Diamond Award is for one hundred million in sales. That is the definition of the Diamond Award. That's why Bill Wyman did not do his job b/c he does not even mention this prestigous award. At least he needs to discuss this and take issue with the World Music Awards and the Guinness Book of Records. Instead, he pretends it never happened. You can see the award given in London in 2006 on youtube videos. Instead of doing any research, Wyman relies on "a French music fan, Guillaume Vieira, who, in his off hours as a web developer, obsessively collects sales news from labels and official industry statements all over the globe."

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...l-a-hundred-million-copies.html#ixzz2Hcnx0uDH

Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on the World Music Awards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Music_Awards

The sales figures for the award are provided by this company, one that is not mentioned in Wyman's article at all.
"The World Music Awards is an international awards show founded in 1989 that annually honors recording artists based on worldwide sales figures provided by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)."
 
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This is what I am coming up with as far as Thriller sales.

First, Wikipedia gives Thriller as the best selling album with certified copies worldwide of 42.1 million, and with estimates of 51-65 million. However, these are figures referring to sales of CD's : "Markets' order within the table is based on the number of compact discs sold in each market."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

As we know, Thriller was issued in November, 1982 as a vinyl record album. So how many were sold before the shift went to CD's? And when did that shift occur, approximately? Wikipedia says Dire Straights was the first artist to sell 1 million CD's in 1985, and David Bowie was the first artist to convert all his music to CD's in 1989. When did Thriller get issued in a CD? I am not sure. But at least we have an approximate time line in the mid to late 80's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc

Ok, so how many vinyl albums of Thriller were sold?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_(album)
"Thriller was released on November 30, 1982, and sold one million copies worldwide per week at its peak." "Thriller was recognized as the world's best-selling album on February 7, 1984, when it was inducted into the Guinness Book of World Records.[48] It is one of only three albums to remain in the top ten of the Billboard 200 for a full year, and spent 37 weeks at number one out of the 80 consecutive weeks it was in the top ten. The album was also the first of three to have seven Billboard Hot 100 top ten singles, and was the only album to be the best-seller of two years (1983–1984) in the US."

My conclusion is that if we add the sales of Thriller in vinyl to the sales in CD's, the figure of over 100 million sold worldwide is entirely credible.
 
A reminder from The Guiness World Records.

Click to enlarge...

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/?action=view&amp;current=michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/th_michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>
 
jamba;3762103 said:
This is what I am coming up with as far as Thriller sales.

First, Wikipedia gives Thriller as the best selling album with certified copies worldwide of 42.1 million, and with estimates of 51-65 million. However, these are figures referring to sales of CD's : "Markets' order within the table is based on the number of compact discs sold in each market."
(...)
My conclusion is that if we add the sales of Thriller in vinyl to the sales in CD's, the figure of over 100 million sold worldwide is entirely credible.

friend, wikipedia isn't a primary source for nothing. It's copy paste and thoughting work. The dude that wrote it can't establish a criterial if the numbers aren't his. None of his sources for the numbers talk about cd or vinyl
 
Joe Vogel in his book said Thriller sold over 100 million and he spent so much time researching about Michael. I don't think it's impossible because since 1982 it has come out in different formats. I don't think Michael would get a special award for it if there wasn't truth to it. This was after the trial when people wanted to dismiss or downplay Michael's achievements.
 
felipemj;3762126 said:
friend, wikipedia isn't a primary source for nothing. It's copy paste and thoughting work. The dude that wrote it can't establish a criterial if the numbers aren't his. None of his sources for the numbers talk about cd or vinyl

By 'that dude" i assume you mean the link you gave to the Chiff source (http://web.archive.org/web/20080204051554/http://www.chiff.com/pop-culture/world-music-awards.htm), which is not the source in any of the Wikipedia links I just gave you.

The entry on the figures for CD sales has 3 different sources and none of them are the Chiff one you cited. You should check out the links I gave you at minimum before you argue against them. One is on best selling albums in general (not just MJ) and this is the first time it has been cited here. The other was about when CDs appeared to replace vinyl (not cited before either), and the last was to Thriller itself.

If you are not willing to do some investigation, it's not fair to pass judgment, as I am sure you will agree.
 
felipemj;3761704 said:
Jamba, you didn't read what I wrote. The 40 million that differs the Guinness from previous numbers are from "estimations" of singles sellings (they said it were 104 million records, not albums). But the fact, that I already told and you didn't read also, is Billie Jean and Beat It(the best selling ones) had sold only 1 million each in USA until 1989. It would require a miracle to hit 40 million without any promotion and with the CD album coasting 10 bucks.

ps.: in Brazil CD singles don't even exist

Where are you getting this that 40 million copies of Thriller as a single were sold? What is your source?
 
Another MJ hit piece by the same guy.

FRIDAY, JUN 26, 2009 09:26 PM EDT
Michael Jackson&#8217;s celebrity suicide
Born to stardom, he never knew what it was like to live or even behave normally
BY BILL WYMAN

CNN&#8217;s coverage of Michael Jackson&#8217;s sudden illness in the minutes before his death was reported captured nicely the way the media has treated him. Nutty people were allowed to talk at length, including a guy who kept saying his concerts in London were in 2010. (They were scheduled for next month.)

Wolf Blitzer looked into the camera to tell us earnestly that the head of the concert promotion company had told them that Jackson was in &#8220;tip-top shape,&#8221; and that he&#8217;d passed a health exam &#8220;with flying colors.&#8221;

Funny how an impossibly pampered 50-year-old guy in top-top shape could just keel over dead.

We&#8217;re supposed to live in an Age of Paparazzi. Isn&#8217;t it curious how stars nonetheless manage to die right before our eyes?

They do it with our complicity.

Born not just to celebrity but to stardom, Michael Jackson never knew what it was like to live normally, or even behave normally. He was drafted into the family&#8217;s musical act, the Jackson 5, while in elementary school, and taken to Motown records. He was taught how to live a manufactured image at the feet of Berry Gordy, who was quite good at such legerdemain.

If you&#8217;re 9 years old and born to be a star, such training will definitely turbocharge the marketing of your record sales; as for the fact that almost all the money from those sales went to your teacher and not you &#8230; well, that was his second lesson.

Trust, truth &#8230; these were concepts Michael Jackson learned early on didn&#8217;t have much worth. But of course he had his family, right?

His angry father beat him and his eight siblings with some determination, reputable biographers have told us. (Untrustworthy La Toya said that she and Michael were sexually molested, too.) On tour at age 10, Michael tried to sleep as his older brothers banged groupies in the motel rooms they shared. Then all the kids watched in wonder as their father took up with another woman and had a child with her.

Love, marriage, sex &#8230; Michael Jackson learned early that those didn&#8217;t mean much either. The Jackson 5 had a three-year run, not bad for a kid act. When the family, which realized it hadn&#8217;t made any money, left the label, a vengeful Gordy exacted as a price not just a brother &#8211; Jermaine, who, married to Gordy&#8217;s daughter, stayed at Motown &#8212; but even their name. When they moved to Columbia, they couldn&#8217;t use the name the Jackson 5.

Michael was all of 14.

In five years he collected himself, extracted himself from his father&#8217;s control and recorded two albums that would change the music industry. The best was the first: 1979&#8242;s &#8220;Off the Wall,&#8221; a groovy, irresistible stunner. Blithe and implacable, sparkling and protean, it displayed a lean talent, feline in his sexuality and relaxed in his blackness. The round-faced, broad-nosed charmer looking out from the album&#8217;s cover reeked not just of charm but confidence and, for the last time, normality.

Three years later, &#8220;Thriller&#8221; would take what became an epochal step forward in terms of commerciality. Viewed now, with the benefit of hindsight, we can see Jackson&#8217;s evolving physiognomy is symptomatic of an insecurity we didn&#8217;t think to question at the time.

His celebrity&#8217;s toll on his own and his family&#8217;s life became considerable. For some unaccountable reason, after &#8220;Thriller&#8221; he still lived at home, as his family busied itself with intrigues and cockamamie plans. One imagines him sitting in his room ignoring the knocks at his door as offers of millions came in to the family from across the country and around the world to do just about anything &#8212; anything, that is, that Michael would do too.

With the exception of Janet, his youngest sister, who somehow managed to extract herself and create her own extraordinary career, virtually every member of his family managed to blemish their reputations; among other things, more than one of the boys, their father&#8217;s sons, were charged with beating up their girlfriends or wives.

The story from that point is a bleak and unrelieved one. Superficial things: Michael&#8217;s ludicrous trappings and entourages; the fetishization of the armed militias marching around in his videos; tales of his supposed bizarre doings leaked to tabloids; the grasping grandiosity of his public appearances. Jackson had a flair for exploiting the tabloid celebrity he had, but that was a skill he shared with Anna Nicole Smith and Paris Hilton, and it probably shouldn&#8217;t be listed among his unique abilities.

More serious things: mismanaged tours; declining songwriting skills; ever-more erratic album releases.

Even more serious things: an entirely transfigured physical appearance, morphing from an engaging and handsome African-American man into a misshapen Eurasian woman; his skin bleached, his face resculpted; his nose, finally, needing to be practically taped onto his face. He left his race behind and, in a sense, his family too. (The nose, which seemed to have borne the brunt of his obsession with plastic surgery, was his father&#8217;s.)

The master of crossover had seemingly crossed over for good.

And finally, a black moral hole, and a descent into a double life as a sexual predator. You&#8217;ve heard about not taking candy from a stranger; Jackson&#8217;s candy took the form of literal amusement parks. There were nights of fun and sleepovers and inappropriate touching and &#8230;

Accusations were leveled many times; most cases were settled; one case, gone to trial, ended in an acquittal in Santa Maria in 2005.

In the obituaries, writers will savor Jackson&#8217;s talents, which were unquestioned; his ambition, which was otherworldly and a thing of awe; and his heyday, which lasted really just a few years, and encompassed perhaps two and a half albums. Others will reflect on the tragedies visited upon him and those he visited on others.

I think it&#8217;s fair to classify Kurt Cobain&#8217;s death as one brought on by medical problems, specifically the roiling interaction of depression and addiction. Jackson&#8217;s death is in this sense more purely a suicide, just as Elvis Presley&#8217;s was some three decades ago. Like Presley, Jackson at some point stepped through a door, closed it, and turned the key. What went on behind the door we&#8217;ll never know.

http://www.salon.com/2009/06/27/michael_jackson_crossover/
 
i know i'm not the first to say this, but we tend to give these stardom if we post their articles. i'd never be interested in posting them. i know you mean well, Jamba, but this thing doesn't need the publicity. let it write it's blogs in it's poor mom's basement. i would've deleted it before it had a chance to breathe air.
 
^Accusing Jackson of all these things and then he ends the article with "We'll never know." Well, if ya don't know it be best u STFU then, am I right? lol Clearly this guy knows nothin!
 
The point is that Michael is On TOP #1
As for the USA and Thriller - Then there was Off The Wall and then Came Thriller which launched MJ to the sky in the states... kind of like outside the US when BAD was released to Dangerous It all just bounced or rolled across the universe. Then he was launched to the moon.


---> J5, JACKSONS, SOLO ALBUMS, ETC. <--- --> OFF THE WALL<-- --> -THRILLER -*- BAD- <-- --> DANGEROUS --> HIStory --> BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR --> INVINCIBLE <---
Plus:
(Greatest Hits, Remixes, Collectors/Box-Sets, Singles, Digital Downloads, Differnces in promo albums via Countries, etc .) (Posthumous albums)
 
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It's always interesting to read journalist's history with MJ. So people who think that New Yorker review meant Sullivan's book was decent... no, it just shows that the same old journalists only find it acceptable to hear about Michael in the same ways they've always seen him.

Sullivan just solidifies the tripe and this guy seemed thrilled he got an excuse to reprint old BS about MJ without needing to find reasons for it.

This is why books like Sullivan's cause harm to MJ and why I find them indefensible.
 
Some good comments to Wyman's 09 hitpiece:

Mark Straka
SATURDAY, JUN 27, 2009 10:18 AM EDT
An Obnoxious Reflex

Music has been an important part of people's lives since forever, and especially since recording and playback technology was introduced. The people who make the great music that becomes "a part of our lives"--just listen to a Time-Life commercial for some themed CD set--become significant others in our lives. Depending on the time, place, and circumstances, music and the musicians who made it become woven into the tapestry of our personal experience. For millions of people, Michael Jackson's music was strongly influential in just this way.

On another tack, there is an obnoxious reflexive tendency among Americans to tell each other what should and shouldn't be. There are always flocks of people who assert a presumed right to speak for the society and to steer it; people who assimilate to the role of thought police, moral police, cultural police, and who presume to tell others what is right and what is wrong, what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. We should, according to some, place the Dalai Lama (why? what has he ever done?) on a higher pedestal in our cultural pantheon than Michael Jackson, etc., kill fewer goats in sacrifice to Jackson, drink fewer and shallower libations, if any. The heights of the cultural pedestals, the numbers of animals to be sacrificed, the number of libations and the grade of drink are all apparently quantified with precision according to the societally recognized and certified achievement(s) of the socially certified hero or heroine, or wannabe, in question. The debate rages. Is this person, dead or alive, a bona fide "hero" in American terms? Is this person deserving of American worship? It is a messy "democratic" process determining who "we" should include among the idols in "our" pantheon. Out of the woodwork come thousands who would presume to tell the rest in dogmatic terms that this one is a real hero and deserves the pedestal and that one is no hero in this culture and deserves no pedestal, no worship, no mention. It is a cultural process akin to the religious processes of apotheosizing and excommunicating. Some would raise Michael Jackson to a kind of sainthood for his monumental artistic accomplishments and other mobs would pull him down, strip him of social credibility, trample on his name.

No matter how many crows come out to any funeral in America, and caw at the people who attend in respect and decency, no matter the crows that caw at Michael Jackson and at the people who eulogize him respectfully, his artistic achievements will stand like the rock of Gibraltar regardless of the birds that crap on it. One wonders why the crows bother to caw. It is the crows who are nameless and insignificant in this society and in this culture.

Michael Jackson's life was lived in the cruel public eye, and now his death is being done over cruelly. He seemed to well know that if he had been born with a white face he would have been left alone, his treatment would have been more akin to what Elvis received, and deservedly so.

Author Wyman writes of passing through doors, and this is a common metaphor analogous to how all people live their lives. I am surrounded by people who have made and continue to make questionable and self-destructive decisions--gone through doors and turned the keys--for an infinity of reasons, and many with results no less frightening than those had by Michael Jackson. Look at any addict, any drug, alcohol, or tobacco-addicted person in your life, and you'll be looking at the same common human weaknesses that destroy millions of people. If America can muster any human sympathy, Jackson's weaknesses will be forgiven.

But one thing is certain, his music speaks for itself and it will survive the test of time and all the social police in the land.
 
felipemj;3761704 said:
ps.: in Brazil CD singles don't even exist

You are partially wrong about that ...
man where have you been in the 80s and 90s?
until the 90s it was quite common to sell singles brazilian version of international artists including singles from MJ, in format vinyl, k7 and finally cd.for example was released here singles of YANA :
http://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-You-Are-Not-Alone-The-Remixes-Part-2/release/1700618

in the 80's was translated the song name on the cover and on the label lol
as you can see in the booklet brazilian single of "Beat it"
72094_146408782070619_8293466_n.jpg


I know a fan who bought some brazilian singles of MJ and I have a single from the Rolling Stones on vinyl. :ph34r:

of course today is different the things have changed... MP3!
but literally say that "don't even exist" you are talking nonsense -_-
 
FRIDAY, JUN 26, 2009 09:26 PM EDT
Michael Jackson&#8217;s celebrity suicide

^^^^ Truly horrible article:no: Maybe he was in need to get laid or something, no normal person would write such a garbage when somebody dies.

"Author Wyman writes of passing through doors, and this is a common metaphor analogous to how all people live their lives. I am surrounded by people who have made and continue to make questionable and self-destructive decisions--gone through doors and turned the keys--for an infinity of reasons, and many with results no less frightening than those had by Michael Jackson. Look at any addict, any drug, alcohol, or tobacco-addicted person in your life, and you'll be looking at the same common human weaknesses that destroy millions of people. If America can muster any human sympathy, Jackson's weaknesses will be forgiven.

But one thing is certain, his music speaks for itself and it will survive the test of time and all the social police in the land."

All the Bill Wyman's of this world will be forgotten when they are gone,and the only ones missing them is family, if they manage to get one, but Michael still lives on through his music years to come.

I love to watch documentaries of artists, and often see how lovingly other countries speaks and shows how one of their own managed to move masses with their contribution to the world. I hope someday US learns to do the same.
 
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