Unreleased Victory Tour footage leaks online!

Any Jackson 5 release would require an agreement with Jacksons/ their representatives / record companies who control rights and so on. One party might hold any possible release by not agreeing. So this is not solely in the hands of MJ Estate.

Sounds like you're right on the matter
And from what I understand, there's a facebook page for a release of the Victory Tour & here it is:
https://www.facebook.com/victorytour84

There's even a YT page made & it's in regards to the "Victory Tour Campaign"
And here's a link to their page

http://www.youtube.com/user/VictoryCampaign84
 
Maybe the estate can give us a more detailed view on this matter.
 
MJJsBADEraLady87;3896107 said:
"I can’t see the Estate ever releasing this, firstly because they seem intent on primarily marketing Michael post-Thriller, when he was lighter-skinned and therefore more commercially viable,


What a ridiculous comment! What makes him think that light skinned Michael is more marketable than dark skinned Michael? Does he accuse fans of racism? If light skinned Michael is more marketable how come Michael's best selling album was Thriller when his skin was still dark?

Thing is with Charles that he wants to turn everything into a race issue, but not everything is.



and secondly because it would actually be positive for MJ’s family, who the Estate overtly despise and sabotage at every possible opportunity."

LOL. Not the other way around? How did the Estate "sabotage" the family?


"What a surprise. ‘Rumours’ about Michael’s black relatives being greedy crooks, trying to profit from their brother’s death.

Blatant propaganda with absolutely no reliable factual basis.




But the Estate sabotaging the family isn't propaganda and has reliable facts to support? And again a subtle way of playing the race card: "Michael's black relatives"... As if criticizing them can only have to do with race.

The Estate has even put out statements mocking MJ’s relatives as conspiracy theorists and making nasty comments about how they were not included in MJ’s (questionable) will. The Estate is overlty antagonistic towards the Jacksons.
What "nasty comments" did the Estate make about MJ's relatives not being included in the Will (actually some of his relatives ARE included)? And well, those who make all kind of accusations about a conspiracy without evidence ARE conspiracy theorists.


The cover art for the Michael album is a disgrace and appears to have been designed with the specific intention of being as offensive as humanly possible. It depicts Joseph and Katherine surrounded by a leather belt, and Michael’s children at his memorial service, smiling upwards as hundred-dollar bills fall from the sky. Two naked children hover either side of MJ’s head and John Branca’s face appears in a mural of MJ’s supposed heroes, alongside James Brown and Martin Luther King.


I didn't like the Michael album cover. IMO it was ugly and cheap looking without any interesting artisic vision. But what evidence Charles has that it was intentionally offensive? Or that it was the Estate who told the artist what to draw and how to draw?

Michael Jackson was bigger in America during the Thriller era, but bigger internationally in later years after his skin became lighter. The trial destroyed MJ’s image in America but less so abroad, particularly in Japan and Europe. Which image of MJ is used to sell the Immortal Tour – the Estate’s biggest profit-making venture since MJ’s death? It’s MJ in the early 90s, with lighter skin. The computer game? Same. The ‘One’ show? Same."

LOL, so he realized it sounds stupid to say light skinned MJ is more marketable when he became the artist with the best selling album when he was dark skinned. To be honest this is quite offensive by Charles to both non-American fans and to Michael himself. As if non-US fans are racists who would not buy a concert just because Michael has darker skin in it.

I'm European and I was never any bit bothered by "dark skinned Michael". To me there is only one Michael I do not make a distinction between "black" and "white" Michael and never did. When I was a kid I had posters on my wall from every era. And I do not know any fan in my circle who are bothered by dark skinned MJ or who wouldn't buy a product just because it was from before the Bad era when his skin was darker.

And the US is still the biggest market so if the Estate wants to make a project successful they have to win over the US audience as well. And in the US OTW and Thriller era Michael was the most popular. So what does Charles talk about?

And it's pretty offensive to Michael to accuse the Estate of racist motives just because they put a pic of him on Immortal where his skin was lighter. What does Charles want? To earse every post Thriller Michael image? Michael has 7 adult solo studio albums, only two has "dark skinned Michael" on its cover. So will he accuse Michael of racism too?
 
It's from a VHS from a longtime fan (who's also the same person who shared the behind the scenes HIStory tour and black or white video footage) who shared it with a couple of fans but it got in the hands of the person who did the Youtube video

The estate DOES have it. The problem is the rights are owned by not just Michael, but also Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Randy. It's the same thing with Destiny Tour and Triumph Tour footage. If we want to see a release of the 1979-84 tours, the estate and the brothers are going to have to agree with each other's terms and conditions. so ivy is right
 
With all the different factors involved in getting it released, doubt we will ever see it in our lifetime.:(

Too many egos and hard feelings to get past.
 
Two other people commented on the site & said the following, although I won't add their names for privacy but anyways, here are their comments in reply to "Charles Thomson"

"I agree with you about them probably not releasing this because it will benefit the Jackson brothers.. But your theory of them shunning MJ’s darker complexion is a bit ridiculous.. especially when you consider that John McClain is black, and they used a painting of a dark skinned Michael for their 2010 “album”.

And another one: "Apparently, Michael’s Estate did have discussion about releasing Victory but the percentage of sales requested by the J’s was unreasonable. Rather than shades of skin tone or opinions about personal feelings, perhaps there are other reasons for holding back on this."
 
Once again Charles Thomson is full of shit. Also once again he displays his own hints of racism by referring to "Michael's black relatives", therefore implying that Michael himself was not black.

Anyway, it's great to see that footage of the Victory Tour exists in this quality. I hope that we get to see it in full some day.
 
Charles has lost touch with reality, unfortunately. It is sad because he once wrote a few great articles on MJ. Now he is very pro-Jacksons and turns everything that throws even the slightest shade on them into a conspiracy and a racial issue.

The reality of how Jacksons operate is well documented in books ("How I paid tribute to Michael Jackson", "Jackson family values") and in the story of Allgood shows (see Murray's last statement, for example). I imagine it would be very hard for the Estate to make a deal with Jacksons for a realistic revenue share.
 
The race comments are farcical. Who cares?! I don't want this because:
a) The Jacksons are all greedy leeches
b) It would waste a good release
c) It looked and sounded naff
d) Michael Jackson got away from those morons as fast as he could! He only agreed to do Motown 25 if he could do Billie Jean. very telling

This has NOTHING to do with race at all, and to imply that would be moronic. I just loathe the Jackson family, and their recent (or not so in some cases) actions have backed up my reasons on how I feel toward the "family".

"Tight knit, my ass" - MJ
 
MJJsBADEraLady87;3896107 said:
Now I don't know much about this guy by the name of Charles Thomson, although i'm sure some of you may have heard of him, but he' just commented on the damienshields.com website about the matter & this is what he had to say about it for the most part:

"I can’t see the Estate ever releasing this, firstly because they seem intent on primarily marketing Michael post-Thriller, when he was lighter-skinned and therefore more commercially viable, and secondly because it would actually be positive for MJ’s family, who the Estate overtly despise and sabotage at every possible opportunity."

"What a surprise. ‘Rumours’ about Michael’s black relatives being greedy crooks, trying to profit from their brother’s death.

Blatant propaganda with absolutely no reliable factual basis.

The Estate simply has no intention of ever releasing anything which will in any way benefit MJ’s relatives, who the Estate overtly despise, publicly criticise and constantly attempt to sabotage. The Estate has even put out statements mocking MJ’s relatives as conspiracy theorists and making nasty comments about how they were not included in MJ’s (questionable) will. The Estate is overlty antagonistic towards the Jacksons.

The cover art for the Michael album is a disgrace and appears to have been designed with the specific intention of being as offensive as humanly possible. It depicts Joseph and Katherine surrounded by a leather belt, and Michael’s children at his memorial service, smiling upwards as hundred-dollar bills fall from the sky. Two naked children hover either side of MJ’s head and John Branca’s face appears in a mural of MJ’s supposed heroes, alongside James Brown and Martin Luther King.

It’s true that John McClain is black, but it’s also true that he is powerless within the context of the Estate; a clear subordinate to John Branca. Let’s not forget, John McClain believed that the Cascio tracks were fake and was opposed to their inclusion on the Michael album. When one of the two executors believes the songs are fake and they get released anyway, that tells you how much Branca values his opinions when it comes to the decision-making process.

Michael Jackson was bigger in America during the Thriller era, but bigger internationally in later years after his skin became lighter. The trial destroyed MJ’s image in America but less so abroad, particularly in Japan and Europe. Which image of MJ is used to sell the Immortal Tour – the Estate’s biggest profit-making venture since MJ’s death? It’s MJ in the early 90s, with lighter skin. The computer game? Same. The ‘One’ show? Same."

What is pile of utter nonsense!

It's funnny he does not comment on MJ's relatives pathetic attempt to profit off MJ at all costs, from shamelessly exploiting his kids - look one has even attempted suicide - to launching fake tribute shows, supporting fake charities of Melissa Johnson, to filing frivolous lawsuits and even kidnapping their own participating mother to spice things up.

This dude is so delusional. he is just short of accusing MJ of bleaching his own skin because he despised being black or so he could appeal to whites. absolute stupid comment.

MJ today is in the news for the all the wrong reasons because of his relatives who refuse to work for a living, and insist on leeching off their deceased brother,one way or the other, till the end of time.

It's mind-boggling their sense of entitlement specially when MJ left behind 3 fragile children, who are pretty much on their own.
 
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mj_brainiac;3896145 said:
The estate DOES have it. The problem is the rights are owned by not just Michael, but also Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Randy. It's the same thing with Destiny Tour and Triumph Tour footage. If we want to see a release of the 1979-84 tours, the estate and the brothers are going to have to agree with each other's terms and conditions. so ivy is right

And I suspect the Brothers would/will be requesting the lion share of the royalties, if the release ever does see the daylight!


MJJsBADEraLady87;3896147 said:
"And another one: "Apparently, Michael’s Estate did have discussion about releasing Victory but the percentage of sales requested by the J’s was unreasonable. Rather than shades of skin tone or opinions about personal feelings, perhaps there are other reasons for holding back on this."

Here we go!
 
MJJsBADEraLady87;3896147 said:
Two other people commented on the site & said the following, although I won't add their names for privacy but anyways, here are their comments in reply to "Charles Thomson"

"I agree with you about them probably not releasing this because it will benefit the Jackson brothers.. But your theory of them shunning MJ’s darker complexion is a bit ridiculous.. especially when you consider that John McClain is black, and they used a painting of a dark skinned Michael for their 2010 “album”.

And another one: "Apparently, Michael’s Estate did have discussion about releasing Victory but the percentage of sales requested by the J’s was unreasonable. Rather than shades of skin tone or opinions about personal feelings, perhaps there are other reasons for holding back on this."

I wouldn't be surprised if the Js asked for $40b.
 
That skin tone comments pretty much offensive to everybody. Fans, general public and Estate are accused of being racist. You are right that there are some people who make everything a race issue. If you criticize Jacksons, somehow suddenly it got something to do with the skin color and you are racist. I have seen people call Estate "white Estate" against "black family". They ignore the fact that Estate does have a black co- Executor who happens to be childhood friends with Jacksons and at least two "black family" members Jackie and Taj are consultants to the Estate. apparently none of them counts. apparently it is also okay to call people racist with no factual proof.

I have seen Charles accuse fans of posting mainly post-Vitiligo photos aka "white" of Michael and finding white Michael sexy over the black Michael with afro. That's not only offensive to the fans but to Michael as well.

The Michael album cover shows a dark skinned Michael , Michael Jackson One is a drawing which looks more pink than anything. I don't get how anyone can look to that and determine whether that's a "light skin" or a "dark skin" Michael. So if anything the covers etc have been equally light and dark skinned.

Estate's focus on post- thriller era can be explained by Thriller 25 has been released in Michael's lifetime and chronologically it's the turn for Bad 25, Dangerous 25, History 25 and Invincible 25 - aka "the lighter skin" years. Also as I said Estate is representing Michael and obviously a lot more focused - as it should be - on his solo career.

Putting racism aside, let's look to factual business information we know & learned.

Jackson 5 name is controlled by Motown - now Universal. They have control over some songs too and they do their own releases. Jacksons name is not a trademark or copyright of MJ Estate. Estate - Mann lawsuit has shown us that at times brothers worked for Joe's production company, hence some rights are owned by Joe. However there was nothing to show Michael (and probably brothers as well) gave up their image and likeliness rights. So even someone has the rights to the recordings, pictures etc. they still need to get permission from the other parties to use their image and likeliness in a release. there are ongoing lawsuits with old managers such as Demann.

So even if this concert DVD was at Estate's possession in wonderful quality, a release would require to
- get permission to use the name Jacksons
- get permission to use everyone's image and likeliness
- clear the use songs across Motown, CBS and Sony
- get permission from parties that might have all or some rights - family, producers, promoters and record companies

It's not an easy job. As I said before even an anti-Estate person can hold up any possible Jacksons release by not agreeing to terms and conditions.
 
That skin tone comments pretty much offensive to everybody. Fans, general public and Estate are accused of being racist. You are right that there are some people who make everything a race issue. If you criticize Jacksons, somehow suddenly it got something to do with the skin color and you are racist. I have seen people call Estate "white Estate" against "black family". They ignore the fact that Estate does have a black co- Executor who happens to be childhood friends with Jacksons and at least two "black family" members Jackie and Taj are consultants to the Estate. apparently none of them counts. apparently it is also okay to call people racist with no factual proof.

I have seen Charles accuse fans of posting mainly post-Vitiligo photos of Michael and finding white Michael sexy over the black Michael with afro. That's not only offensive to the fans but to Michael as well.

The Michael album cover shows a dark skinned Michael , Michael Jackson One is a drawing which looks more pink than anything. I don't get how anyone can look to that and determine whether that's a "light skin" or a "dark skin" Michael. So if anything the covers etc have been equally light and dark skinned.

Estate's focus on post- thriller era can be explained by Thriller 25 has been released in Michael's lifetime and chronologically it's the turn for Bad 25, Dangerous 25, History 25 and Invincible 25 - aka "the lighter skin" years. Also as I said Estate is representing Michael and obviously a lot more focused on his solo career.

Putting racism aside, let's look to factual business information we know & learned.

Jackson 5 name is controlled by Motown - now Universal. They have control over some songs too. Jacksons name is not a trademark or copyright of MJ Estate. Estate - Mann lawsuit has shown us that at times brothers worked for Joe's production company, hence the rights are owned by Joe. However there was nothing to show Michael (and probably brothers as well) gave up their image and likeliness rights. So even someone has the rights to the recordings, pictures etc. they still need to get permission from the other parties to use their image and likeliness. there are ongoing lawsuits with old managers such as Demann.

So even if this concert DVD was at Estate's possession in wonderful quality, a release would require
- get permission to use name Jacksons
- get permission to use everyone's image and likeliness
- clear the use songs across Motown, CBS and Sony
- get permission from parties that might have all or some rights - family, producers, promoters and record companies

Still I think it's doable.
 
Still I think it's doable.

I didn't say it's undoable, I said it's not solely under Estate's control so asking and complaining why Estate doesn't release this isn't fair. Also for example if Randy Jackson who happens to be extremely anti-Estate and anti-executors say "nope you can't use my likeliness not for million years" you can kiss goodbye to any Jacksons release. The sad truth is that Estate and Jacksons always don't get along.
 
I didn't say it's undoable, I said it's not solely under Estate's control so asking and complaining why Estate doesn't release this isn't fair. Also for example if Randy Jackson who happens to be extremely anti-Estate and anti-executors say "nope you can't use my likeliness not for million years" you can kiss goodbye to any Jacksons release. The sad truth is that Estate and Jacksons always don't get along.

Well, fortunately money can make people change their minds. The Jackson's could get positive attention and get a certain amount of royalties for each sold bluray.

Besides, releasing this for their brother's fans should be a motive too.
 
I am sorry but this Charles Thompson dude has lost his goddamn mind. Please scroll up to Ivy's post for a more sensible explanation on why it is hard to produce a Victory Tour release.

I was shocked. I never realized he went in for these racial theories to explain everything. He seems to be one of those people who really do not understand the will & trust and why the will is valid from a legal standpoint. He does not understand the Jacksons and does not understand the estate.

Further, Michael being popular in Europe after he became lighter is another foolish statement. When racial discrimination was rampant in the US, where did Thompson think the intelligent African-American writers, the talented dancers/singers ran to perform and live? Yes Thompson it was in Europe where they were recognized, could live in hotels, could ride in the front of the bus, could amass great wealth.

Also, he forgets that it was with Off The Wall that Michael began to move more into a type of music that was "his own." The birth of Thriller and his short stories all brought solo Michael to vast cultures. He was no longer a part of the Jackson 5. Therefore, by the time he went on the Bad tour all these cultures already knew him from the exposure made by Thriller. It makes sense for the estate to focus on the Michael that became super global. Why should the estate promote the Jackson 5, when they have a lot of solo Michael to work with?
 
How about the Estate just blurs Brothers' faces on the video and cuts out all the performances where Jermaine is the lead singer? Hmm...
 
Further, Michael being popular in Europe after he became lighter is another foolish statement.

I became a fan during Thriller release. Michael was one of the black people who was able to cross boundaries and break racial barriers. He was pretty much popular in Europe during Thriller and when he had "dark skin". It's diminishing what Michael achieved (breaking racial barriers) when anyone says he became popular because he got whiter.
 
We gotta get our hands on this!! I'd love to see this.. We get this and a good history.. Release all mj solo tours on a compilation set with special features... Boom Pure awesomeness
 
How about the Estate just blurs Brothers' faces on the video and cuts out all the performances where Jermaine is the lead singer? Hmm...

Funny!!! I wonder if that is possible? They use computer technology and erase all the brothers and their voices, and then keep Michael and his voice, and the instrumentation from non-Jacksons.

Maybe each brother was asking for millions and after the estate looked at what all parties would get, Michael would end up with about 500,000. For them to give the brothers a lot of money, they have to know that millions of fans will buy this footage. Based on the fact that Bad 25 sales were less than the estate expected, I don't think they will gamble with a deal where the brothers request too much money. They will end up doing a lot of work and end up with petty cash.
 
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