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Victory was Michael's biggest mistake

djlukesw

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I believe that Michael should have never listened to his parents to work with his brothers in 1984. He was at his absolute peak at that time. He just created Thriller, which became the biggest selling album, his music videos and the Motown 25 special were huge and he was extremely popular. Tabloids started to mock him, but not nearly as much as they did after 1985. He won all those grammy awards, he was good-looking, mysterious and cool at the same time and had a very creative time.
We don't know for sure what he would have done in 84 if he had refused his mother's request, but I am sure the outcome would have been better. Imagine a Thriller World Tour with all the energy he had. Michael could have become even bigger that he was and continue from there on.

I think the album Victory was a huge disappointment to his fans and to critics. Nobody cared for any of the songs, except maybe for State of Shock (which he could have released as a single while touring Thriller). His gigantic success of Thriller was slowed down by the Victory album and the tour. He wasn't giving his all, he didn't like the tour. He let down Europe and too much time passed until the release of Bad. His flame was still big in 87 of course, but not as big as it was in 83. He became freakier in the public eye and obviously had a hard time building on the success of the previous album. I think he missed the perfect time and suffered from that for the rest of his life (artistically). He always wanted to get back to who he was in 1983 and that never worked out. And of course he wouldn't have burned his head if he didn't work with his brothers.

I don't really want this to be a what if thread, I just want to point out that in my eyes he did his biggest mistake in his career here and never recovered from that. I think this was worse than some other artistic choices he made (e.g. Invincible, MGM concerts, lypsync etc.)
 
Artistically, sure I can I see it. MJ had a lotta great material that he left in the backburner. Triumph was a great album that deserved a more worthy sequel than Victory. Still, it's not all on MJ. The Freddie Mercury Collabs didn't work out, the Anka Collabs was left in the lurch. I don't think a Thriller tour or sequel was gonna happen anytime soon.
 
The Victory Tour was not Michael Jackson's biggest mistake because he did in his career bigger mistakes than that.

Besides, the Victory Tour acted in a way as a Thriller World Tour, and it helped increasing sales of his 'Thriller' album (because during the Victory Tour he performed songs from the 'Thriller' album).
 
djlukesw said:
I think the album Victory was a huge disappointment to his fans and to critics. Nobody cared for any of the songs, except maybe for State of Shock (which he could have released as a single while touring Thriller).
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Phil Collins cared about it, because he kinda copied One More Chance with his 1985 song One More Night. It sounds similar & even the title is almost the same. Janet also recorded One More Chance and released it on the deluxe book version of her early 1990s album Janet. I think she had it as a B-side too.
 
DuranDuran said:
Phil Collins cared about it, because he kinda copied One More Chance with his 1985 song One More Night. It sounds similar & even the title is almost the same. Janet also recorded One More Chance and released it on the deluxe book version of her early 1990s album Janet. I think she had it as a B-side too.
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A, interesting! I’ve never thought about the similarities between The Jacksons’ One More Chance and Phil Collins One More Night, but now that you mention it… sure, I can see it.

Janet released it as a B-side to If.
 
I wouldn't call the victory tour his biggest mistake. It was the biggest selling tour at that point. He didnt tour for Thriller officially because he didnt need to. That album was breaking records regardless. I would argue doing  that pepsi commercial was an actual mistake.
 
john branca mentioned in one of his instagram videos that michael was originally planning to do a solo tour for ‘thriller’, before he agreed to the ‘victory’ tour with his brothers. I’m not sure how true that is, given how michael felt about touring, but that would have been monumental - especially if it was a world tour. it would have had the highest attendance records to match the record sales.

the ‘victory’ tour was a flawed concept from the beginning because it was really capitalising off thriller’s success, not the album of the same name, which no songs were performed from.. it was michael’s celebration not his brothers. the people were there to see him. in fact, they had to scrap the mock argument that led into jermaine’s solo after the first few dates, because people were using this time to visit the bathroom (there was actually a joke about this on ‘the hughleys’ sitcom).

michael was outvoted on two crucial decisions; the pepsi commercial - in which he would sustain a life altering injury, and the ticket system that would threaten his reputation.

I’m glad we got some more performance footage of michael during this time when he was at his peak. however, I think the jacksons reunion should have ended with motown 25. michael had long outgrown the group by then. he should have been free to flourish as a solo artist.
 
It was understandable that his brothers wanted him to tour with them. Not only did they need the money, but they were his family and they had been performing together for so many years.

But his brothers were wrong to go against his wishes on how to manage the tour. Going with Don King and implementing that ridiculous ticket system were completely stupid decisions. Just goes to show that his brothers were money-hungry buffoons and MJ was absolutely correct to leave them after the tour.
 
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Salami said:
We got Torture, that’s a success in my book.
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All of the songs on the album are great, although you have to sequence Be Not Always at the end because it doesn’t work right in the middle.

Wait and The Hurt in particular are grade-A material. Fans don’t give those songs any attention only because MJ doesn’t sing them. Although he does adlibs on Wait and cowrote The Hurt.
 
djlukesw said:
I believe that Michael should have never listened to his parents to work with his brothers in 1984. He was at his absolute peak at that time. He just created Thriller, which became the biggest selling album, his music videos and the Motown 25 special were huge and he was extremely popular. Tabloids started to mock him, but not nearly as much as they did after 1985. He won all those grammy awards, he was good-looking, mysterious and cool at the same time and had a very creative time.
We don't know for sure what he would have done in 84 if he had refused his mother's request, but I am sure the outcome would have been better. Imagine a Thriller World Tour with all the energy he had. Michael could have become even bigger that he was and continue from there on.

I think the album Victory was a huge disappointment to his fans and to critics. Nobody cared for any of the songs, except maybe for State of Shock (which he could have released as a single while touring Thriller). His gigantic success of Thriller was slowed down by the Victory album and the tour. He wasn't giving his all, he didn't like the tour. He let down Europe and too much time passed until the release of Bad. His flame was still big in 87 of course, but not as big as it was in 83. He became freakier in the public eye and obviously had a hard time building on the success of the previous album. I think he missed the perfect time and suffered from that for the rest of his life (artistically). He always wanted to get back to who he was in 1983 and that never worked out. And of course he wouldn't have burned his head if he didn't work with his brothers.

I don't really want this to be a what if thread, I just want to point out that in my eyes he did his biggest mistake in his career here and never recovered from that. I think this was worse than some other artistic choices he made (e.g. Invincible, MGM concerts, lypsync etc.)
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You hit it right on the head my friend,I feel the same way,he couldn't give off the wall a tour, because of his brothers and he couldn't give thriller a tour because of his brothers, his career had so much potential back then,but his so called brothers and so called father wanna mess him up when he was on top
 
Moonwalker50 said:
You hit it right on the head my friend,I feel the same way,he couldn't give off the wall a tour, because of his brothers and he couldn't give thriller a tour because of his brothers, his career had so much potential back then,but his so called brothers and so called father wanna mess him up when he was on top
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I get your point but what do you mean by “so called”? Were they not his family or something??
 
I think Michael made much bigger mistakes in his career than this, and most of them happened in the 1990s and 00s.
 
Look it was impossible to tour, manufacturers would have not have been able to catch up with the selling rate if he had done a thriller tour ☺️
 
Agonum said:
A, interesting! I’ve never thought about the similarities between The Jacksons’ One More Chance and Phil Collins One More Night, but now that you mention it… sure, I can see it.

Janet released it as a B-side to If.
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Are you familiar with the some of the singles the funk band Bar-Kays released in the 1980s or Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean? That's basically what Phil did with One More Night, lol. But the Jacksons were doing the same thing and so were a lot of other artists. All Night Dancin' is basically a sped up version of Harvest For The World by The Isley Brothers. Give In To Me is Alone Again by Dokken. The chorus of Shake Your Body came from the long version of Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up, plus there's another song that came out not long after Marvin's called Let Me Party With You by Bunny Sigler and it didn't just copy the chorus. It sounds more like Got To Give It Up than Robin Thicke's song Blurred Lines that he got sued by Marvin's estate for. Janet's song Let's Wait Awhile is Daisy Jane by America, and no it's not a sample. The vocal arrangement comes from Daisy Jane, but the original writers are not credited.
 
mack77 said:
Even if he had not settled and fought in 1993, there would still be people who say he was guilty, no matter what a court determined. He was acquitted in 2005, but it didn't stop new false claims
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Sure a small number of people might still believe it but by not fighting it, it leaves the possibility that he might be guilty and that he has simply paid off the boy to keep him quiet.

That 93 case attached itself to MJ for the rest of his life.

I believe that 2005 would not have happened if MJ had fought and won in 93.
 
Robbsaber01 said:
I wouldn't call the victory tour his biggest mistake. It was the biggest selling tour at that point. He didnt tour for Thriller officially because he didnt need to. That album was breaking records regardless. I would argue doing  that pepsi commercial was an actual mistake.
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working for pepsi was a mistake
sugar isnt good for children
“This is important for readers to understand, because seeing all of this marketing is impacting how children eat, and the poor dietary habits that kids are developing will carry forward throughout their lives and impact their health in the long term,” Mulligan said.
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