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Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

dmehta said:
The only conceivable reason why they'd edit in that short segment at the end of Billie Jean from another concert would be if the VHS at that point was damaged beyond repair. They couldn't leave that part on the DVD if it was severely damaged. So if they did edit in a very short segment from another gig in order to provide continuity and a full Billie Jean performance, then I don't see the problem. And I don't see why the Estate have to tell the public "by the way, 30 seconds of the concert is edited in from another date". It makes no sense for them to state that publicly.
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I agree, but it's really sloppy editing, because MJ's arms and legs aren't in the same position, it's like he takes one more step again.

This whole VHS business. MJ performances are often ripped from VHS, before we had rebroadcasts and stuff on digital TV or DVDs, look at HIStory Gothenburg (late 90s) or even those Bad Tour VHSs, they've stood by the test of time and likely only ripped recently.

Then again, I remember Royal Brunei initial leak by Ekie wasn't very good quality rip with oversaturated colours. BlackSheepDownUnder did a good job re-ripping it with cleaner resolution and Dorian did a good job restoring it.

"Preference of Other Concerts"
Well I think Barcelona is a very good performance. The ending is better than Wembley July 23 or this unknown location as well; MJ does shuffle tap, spins and does the shuffle tap again before going on his toes, haven't seen any other location with these moves.

Does anybody have Marbella amateur?
 
we can see that the Wembley positions have the same cable, the same positions are never moved to another place on stage.

fds.jpg

ss.jpg


That means that small snippet Billie Jean is not Wembley
 
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True the cables weren't moved from 14th to 16th, but they were moved by the 23rd, I see a vertical cable similar to this unknown concert. There's 6 days in between the 16th and the 22nd so they probably reset parts of the stage a bit.

It might be a later date of Wembley like August 26 or 27. July 23 is too bad quality to be sure but I don't see any cable.

And no that's a different cable from the others, it's thinner and comes from that box right behind the lights. The big black line running perpendicular in the unknown concert is the wire in question, so there are two cables not just one behind the light. I think it's possible this is July 22nd or August 26, or 27, we can't rule these out just yet.
 
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Frankyboy5 said:
True the cables weren't moved from 14th to 16th, but they were moved by the 23rd, I see a vertical cable similar to this unknown concert. There's 6 days in between the 16th and the 22nd so they probably reset parts of the stage a bit.

It might be a later date of Wembley like August 26 or 27. July 23 is too bad quality to be sure but I don't see any cable.

And no that's a different cable from the others, it's thinner and comes from that box right behind the lights. The big black line running perpendicular in the unknown concert is the wire in question, so there are two cables not just one behind the light. I think it's possible this is July 22nd or August 26, or 27, we can't rule these out just yet.
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billie jean this fragment is not Wembley, is another concert.
Wembley 23 is discarded. :)

vlcsnap-2012-10-02-20h56m12s236.png
 
it's not Barcelona or Rome either.

Any pictures of August 26 or 27?
 
Sarcasim: Oh I see now, the lines are different in one spot compared to others.. Horrible, horrible.. Unwatchable now!
...................................
The ONLY time a concert wont beedited will be when htere is no footage to edit it with.. Go buy any concert, Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake, USHER, Even MJ's DVD tour. They are all edited.. And yes they will label is "Lady Gaga Madison Square Garden" even though there may be 1.5 minutes total fom other places..

No one complanes about Dangerous tour? WHY? Because Michael approved it? I mean come on, lay off this issue a bit.

If it were not edited and they left a scrambled tape issue, these same people would b*tch even more about the quality.. Either way it seems fans cannot find a reason to be happy with anything anymore.

Even on the biggest released footage in litterally in over a decade, we still find ourselves stuck with posts of debbie downers..

Im starting to think people post just because its easier to create interest and conversation in an argumentative form than spreading positivity.. Im not sure if these people are just trying to find a faster way to look on the left of the screen to see there post number go up or what..

Even if this concert was PERFECT with a double sided DVD of hours of extra footage, we'd hear "I don't know why they picked this picture for the cover".. "when you go to chapter 3 it starts 3 seconds into the song".. "Double sided DVD's suck because fingerprints get everywhere, and dont last long.. It's all conspiracy from Estate so we have to re-buy"


We can find flaws and consiracy theories in anything.. I mean tupac was on stage just months ago!!! was it really a hologram? lol
 
^ which is why I sometimes prefer Amateur-filmed concerts, tho their quality is often crap.

And of course a lot of fans complained about the Dangerous Tour Bucharest.

And @scrambled tape issue - Nope, we would at least see some parts of it. There's some scanlines in Queen Live Aid 1986 yet ppl still like the performance nonetheless.

And the mystery footage is not Leeds or Liverpool either.
 
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I don't think people are complaining as such. More so they're just doing a bit of detective work to try and sort out exactly what it is we have here. I love the attention to detail.
 
KOPV said:
Sarcasim: Oh I see now, the lines are different in one spot compared to others.. Horrible, horrible.. Unwatchable now!
...................................
The ONLY time a concert wont beedited will be when htere is no footage to edit it with.. Go buy any concert, Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake, USHER, Even MJ's DVD tour. They are all edited.. And yes they will label is "Lady Gaga Madison Square Garden" even though there may be 1.5 minutes total fom other places..

No one complanes about Dangerous tour? WHY? Because Michael approved it? I mean come on, lay off this issue a bit.

If it were not edited and they left a scrambled tape issue, these same people would b*tch even more about the quality.. Either way it seems fans cannot find a reason to be happy with anything anymore.

Even on the biggest released footage in litterally in over a decade, we still find ourselves stuck with posts of debbie downers..

Im starting to think people post just because its easier to create interest and conversation in an argumentative form than spreading positivity.. Im not sure if these people are just trying to find a faster way to look on the left of the screen to see there post number go up or what..

Even if this concert was PERFECT with a double sided DVD of hours of extra footage, we'd hear "I don't know why they picked this picture for the cover".. "when you go to chapter 3 it starts 3 seconds into the song".. "Double sided DVD's suck because fingerprints get everywhere, and dont last long.. It's all conspiracy from Estate so we have to re-buy"


We can find flaws and consiracy theories in anything.. I mean tupac was on stage just months ago!!! was it really a hologram? lol
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I complain about Bucharest dvd. I don't like it much. Michael's performance is amazing thought.

If they say that they leave the concet untouched then they should to that and not edit it. I personally think that the Wembley concert on the dvd is the best concert I have ever seen but it doesn't make the dvd perfect. :)
 
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so approx 15 seconds? That's what's causing all this hoopla?
In all honesty, i was too busy enjoying the show to be bothered with what position wires and what not was in.
So, it's on the basis of 15 seconds and moving wires that people deem the estate as liars?
 
(Snaps) Wembley DVD is not 100% from 16th (mixed) afterall? Come and see Billie Jean.

First of all, I used to believe that the DVD's completely unedited just like the Estate promised. But after someone on a Chinese website pointed out that there were something wrong about the Billie Jean dance, I checked it out frame by frame using VirtualDub, and I found this.

In the Billie Jean dance, you can see there's a black hat coming from nowhere on the stairs, and a light changed its way. (It was discovered by EMoXin.)
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/emoxin/2__.jpg
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/emoxin/2__.jpg

And here's what I found using VirtualDub with FULL FRAME RATE (you can do the same). In frame 174520 and 174521 (where the camera changed its angle), you can see that Michael's hands are at different places.
http://img170.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20121003/19/65818214201210031956097525849516006_000.jpg
(Can you see this snap? I uploaded it to a Chinese website.)

This made me a little annoyed, so the ending of Billie Jean that we see is probably from Wembley 15th. Feel free to examine it yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I still like this DVD, but if there's really something wrong, we had to check it out, right?

Edit: Sorry, I've just seen that someone has already discovered Billie Jean problem.
 
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Wembley July 16, 1988 - DVD Mixed!!!

*Removed
 
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ByReyberHDVideos said:
we can see that the Wembley positions have the same cable, the same positions are never moved to another place on stage.

fds.jpg

ss.jpg


That means that small snippet Billie Jean is not Wembley
Click to expand...

Good observation! I didn't even noticed the cables when I watched.
 
Pimboli said:
so approx 15 seconds? That's what's causing all this hoopla?
In all honesty, i was too busy enjoying the show to be bothered with what position wires and what not was in.
So, it's on the basis of 15 seconds and moving wires that people deem the estate as liars?
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If you get bored reading this, just ignore comments and ready. Thank you :D
 
ByReyberHDVideos said:
If you get bored reading this, just ignore comments and ready. Thank you :D
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that's easier said than done. Since the announcement months ago, this board has been all about criticizing the dvd and the quality, and now after the dvd is out, the quality discussion goes on everywhere. Just look at the download section. It's been invaded by "look at my remastered version, it's better" or "how do we improve" threads. If the quality discussion was kept to just one thread, then sure i could and would just stay away, but i cant just do that, because that discussion and the unsatisfied people are all over the board with their comments. Ignoring is not an option, lol
 
Yes, that gig is addictive, but why So.ny havent re-released some of the docs from Bad and about Bad era (like Legend Continues), or bonuses on the Wembley DVD?

There were so many great tv docs about BAD tour like from MTV... and they are forgotten somewhere on VHS in fans collections on the shelves in their rooms?
 
Pimboli said:
that's easier said than done. Since the announcement months ago, this board has been all about criticizing the dvd and the quality, and now after the dvd is out, the quality discussion goes on everywhere. Just look at the download section. It's been invaded by "look at my remastered version, it's better" or "how do we improve" threads. If the quality discussion was kept to just one thread, then sure i could and would just stay away, but i cant just do that, because that discussion and the unsatisfied people are all over the board with their comments. Ignoring is not an option, lol
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For my part I am more than satisfied love the DVD quality is good and the audio or talk, what we are doing is just watching it on combined snippet billie jean, it is not if the quality is bad or good.
Just inquire, we lose nothing with it. :)
 
Has anyone noticed how MJ performed MITM with the Billie Jean socks in L.A ?
 
Anyone saw in TWYMMF when Michael kicks near at Sheryl Crow, he hits her arm unintentionally lol
 
dmehta said:
The only conceivable reason why they'd edit in that short segment at the end of Billie Jean from another concert would be if the VHS at that point was damaged beyond repair. They couldn't leave that part on the DVD if it was severely damaged. So if they did edit in a very short segment from another gig in order to provide continuity and a full Billie Jean performance, then I don't see the problem. And I don't see why the Estate have to tell the public "by the way, 30 seconds of the concert is edited in from another date". It makes no sense for them to state that publicly.
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Well...being MJ`s private copy I can really imagine him rewinding that segment a lot for practise/studying his moves. Just imagine him playing it at home for own use or a friend asking "Mike, please, rewind and let me see that again...". He would have done it.. LOVE
 
Moonwalker.Fan said:
Yes, that gig is addictive, but why Sony havent re-released some of the docs from Bad and about Bad era (like Legend Continues), or bonuses on the Wembley DVD?

There were so many great tv docs about BAD tour like from MTV... and they are forgotten somewhere on VHS in fans collections on the shelves in their rooms?
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Becuase The old documentaries wouldn't sell enough to make it worth their effort. The DVD is Full and does contain bonuses. Plus We are getting a brand new documentary, Spike Lees BAD25 and the DVD will have an extra hour of behind the scene bonus footage added. Sony already gave us tons of extras .. They could have just released the Album with some bonus songs for the 25th Anniversary. We got much much more than we ever expected. 3 CDs a Wembley Concert DVD, extra goodies and the Spike Lee documentary is coming. (Something to look forward to.) :)
 
^ what do you mean an extra hour of bonus footage's? How long is the documentary ?
 
I really wonder WHY the tape became at the stage it is. Although watching it too many times will probably wear it down this was likely a direct second generation copy from the Umatic or Beta tape directly. Compare that with the all concert recordings we've had for so many years which are VHS recordings from TV broadcasts. Unless MJ tried to make the tape worse quality...

Hey, maybe that's a possibility, he wanted NO full Bad Tour 88 concert to be seen by anyone so the quality was bad on purpose. lol not that I believe that but just a fun theory ;)

The vast majority of videos we've got were recorded on a format none other than VHS. And many times they have been well converted into 480i. HIStory Gothenburg and Bad Tour Yokohama are prime examples. Sure both are nearly 10 years apart, but they are almost on par in video quality. Both suffer the same artifacts like halos and green/yellow tint but still...

Then again DWT Santiago amateur version was filmed by local TV crew and stolen and copied many times which has damaged the tape. Last year a higher quality (possibly master) was leaked.

I still am not convinced the estate has July 15 umatic. They must have a lot of videos but these are individual songs from different concerts, like Bad from July 15, TWYMMF from July 15, Dirty Diana from Madison Square Garden.
 
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Frankyboy5 said:
I still am not convinced the estate has July 15 umatic. They must have a lot of videos but these are individual songs from different concerts, like Bad from July 15, TWYMMF from July 15, Dirty Diana from Madison Square Garden.
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They most likely have full New York 88 concerts because Michael's and Tatiana's kiss can be seen in Spike Lee's Bad 25 documentary.
 
Moonwalker.Fan said:
Yes, that gig is addictive, but why So.ny havent re-released some of the docs from Bad and about Bad era (like Legend Continues), or bonuses on the Wembley DVD?

There were so many great tv docs about BAD tour like from MTV... and they are forgotten somewhere on VHS in fans collections on the shelves in their rooms?
Click to expand...

BAD AROUND THE WORLD would have been an excellent bonus feature to put on the DVD...
 
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