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Weaning off

StacyJ

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I have a question.. Murray claims on the 23rd and 24th he used another combination of sleep aids to put MJ to sleep, because he was trying to wean MJ off of propofol. He claimed his other combos worked, but why on the 25th didn't it work? Does he know the answer to that?

Also someone posted this and it makes sense:

Dr. Murray's statement that he was weaning MJ off Propofol often nags at me. Did he say this just to make himself look better or was it true? I have a difficult time believing it to be true because of the Propofol Dr. Murray had stock piled. The other reason is that he would be weaning himself out of a job. He was hired to administer Propofol and if MJ didn't need it anymore why would he need to keep Dr. Murray around? On the night of his death Dr. Murray gave MJ other drugs plus the Propofol to supposedly wean him. Dr. Murray claimed his weaning regiment had worked on at least two previous occasions so either he was really being truthful or maybe something more sinister was at play. Why would the weaning work right away and then stop? I must admit to knowing nothing about this but wouldn't the weaning regiment have taken longer to work? I hope some of these questions will be answered at the trial.

Posted at 11:07 AM on Jan 15, 2011 by wow



So I'm not the only one thinking about that. It doesn't make sense. And if he was weaning him off why on June 15th he bought some more propofol?
 
He wasn't trying to wean him off of anything.

Murray freaked out about the symptoms MJ had on Father's Day, June 21st.

Instead of taking him to a hospital, which could have ended in him not going

to London with MJ, he improvised ( even more) with the meds.

during the following days.


That's what I think.
 
If he hadn't been giving it to Michael in the first place there would be no need to wean him off it. Murrey did what so many other quacks have done, he got him hooked and created a dependence on him, so that Michael would have to keep paying him.

Michael was always vulnerable and so many vultures entered his life and took advantage of that. It is just heartbreaking.
 
Just another lie.
Read about Propofol which Murray says Michael was addicted to, you'll see it has no potential for addiction.
While Lorazepam and other drugs Murray said he used to try to 'wean Michael off' has a very high potential to get patients addicted to it.


It's not that one could think Murray must be a complete moron... it's even for that too much so one can only think Murray worked by very own intention and or 'order' in what he did... and now wants to walk free cuz of 'dumbness'.
 
I thought twice about writing this, but I figured that the defense has read all the articles and blogs we did. Remember Susan Etok? She said that MJ asked her to supply propofol while in England and that she refused. The defense might call her to the stand and speculate that this is the reason Murray tried to wean him off, because he could not get the anesthetic in England.

Just my two cents...
 
Popescu said:
Mechi, it is addictive http://www.farleycenter.com/resources/articles/2009-07-07/spotlight-diprivan-and-propofol-addiction
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for that link but that's not reliable nor valid yet to talk really about addiction...

As far as I know yet they do have first tendencies in animal experiments (what is clearly mentioned in that article with the link you provided) and even then to convince me you'd have to show the sample (size quantity etc) experiments with setting, results and statistics to me?!
Sure in the light of the happenings around Michael Jackson some spotlight-addicted experts are talking without really saying something.

In research YET when we talk about diprivan/propofol we talk about ABUSE which is not the same as addiction. Ppl who 'abuse' it talk about it's giving them a strong feeling of relief. These ppl usually DO NOT feel an addiction means they are more reporting they feel free to use it or even not.
However Diprivan/Propofol is YET known to cause like almost NO side effects.
So we're discussing it MIGHT can create a psychological addiction (pretty funny the text you provided is here talking about a 'brain disease') means the drug is not creating a physical craving but maybe a psychological. As far as I've read myself to real researching reports nothing is proven yet. And it will always be hard to prove as you have to find ppl abusing it (and it is restricted very much)... you can not just give it to ppl and see how they'll respond.

Sure everybody loves the word addiction cuz it gets them more attention in the media and maybe with the general public... very drama... and surely with Michael an wanted created drama... but not really valid nor reliable for researchers... means not even close to what's known as the proven truth.

ok hope that explains my response.

Here's for example a link to a report really presenting valid and reliable information about Diprivan:
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/diprivan-side-effects.html
note they mention sample with size, how they got the sample etc. and they do mention the number in percent how often in the sample these things happened etc. etc. plus they give the literature link on which they did rely on and where you can follow the complete research.
Just an example for real experts publicizing.
 
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If my memory is right then Murrays girlfriend with the baby said Murray spent 6 nights/week at Michaels house.It means Michael could manage without propofol.Maybe he could take a sleepless night if he wasn´t going to the rehearsals the day after.
 
Well I admitt I have lost a bit track on following research on propofol abuse due to circumstances in my private life in the last three or four months... so there might is more than I know.
But if there is then I'd like make myself a picture of how they have found out what...
 
Looking at pictures from TII during that time, Mike didn't look well to me. He looked way too thin in my opinion. If I could see it, I'm sure Murray saw it. Murray knew Mike wasn't well and he knew the drugs he was giving him was making MJ sick. He kept giving them to him though. And for him to say that he did nothing wrong boggles my mind.
 
the only known addictions releating to diprivan is ppl who injected a huge amount of times during the day. theres the info about the rush they get when they come around and normally involved drs who have access to it. this sort of addiction is not relevent to MJ .there is no phyiscal addiction like with opiates where u go through withdrawl if u dont get the drug etc. thats why ppl state its not physically addictive. any possbile addictions are irrelvent to mj it was used to sleep on a night. no one was injecting 30 times a day to get the rush when u come around. so its irrelvent

murray bought all those benzos at the same time as the diprivan. it was not something he brought in when he thought mj was getting" addicted" to the diprivan he has no problem giving someone highly addcitve benzos for god knows how long yet when it comes down to it he caims mj gets addcited to something that u cant get physcally addicted to
 
"Propofol is a short-acting anaesthestic used for inducing and maintaing generl anaestesia. It has no affinity to opiate-, benzodiazepin-, or NDMA-receptors and thus should have no potential for abuse or addiction, which are always associated with the risk of overdosing like Fentanyl or ketamine. There are only two publications describing propofol abuse. In both cases propofol was used for its sedative and relaxing property. Other possible motives for propofol abuse are sexual illusions and disinhibitions during awakening from the narcotic-induced sleep"

Cases of propofol abuse:none used propofol the way MJ reportedly used it during the History tour. injections are the pattern in those cases. Ratner was sedating MJ for long hours , at least that what a mini clinic and two doctors traveling with him would indicate. But with Murray obvioulsy nothing was similar to what happened in 1997
 
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How was Murray weaning MJ off of propofol by giving him highly addictive benzos?

and if Murray thought MJ had a problem why didn't he tell AEG he needed rehab or to see a sleep specialist?
 
StacyJ said:
How was Murray weaning MJ off of propofol by giving him highly addictive benzos?

and if Murray thought MJ had a problem why didn't he tell AEG he needed rehab or to see a sleep specialist?
Click to expand...

 because then there would go Murray's payment of 150.000 dollars a month....and he was not giving that up. ..IMO...Murray is just saying that to blame Michael....
 
xthunderx2 said:
[/B] because then there would go Murray's payment of 150.000 dollars a month....and he was not giving that up. ..IMO...Murray is just saying that to blame Michael....
Click to expand...

If Murray truly cared, if MJ asked him about propofol for sleep, Murray should've said ' no way'. Murray should've said it's not safe for that and I have no idea on how to use it. Let me help you by suggesting a sleep specialist etc.. It was Murray's duty to help his patient find a safe method of sleeping. Murray failed at that duty.
 
hilliver said:
If he hadn't been giving it to Michael in the first place there would be no need to wean him off it. Murrey did what so many other quacks have done, he got him hooked and created a dependence on him, so that Michael would have to keep paying him.

Michael was always vulnerable and so many vultures entered his life and took advantage of that. It is just heartbreaking.
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i agree :yes:...:(
 
you can't get addicted to propofol...so Murray didn't try to do anything...
 
StacyJ said:
If Murray truly cared, if MJ asked him about propofol for sleep, Murray should've said ' no way'. Murray should've said it's not safe for that and I have no idea on how to use it. Let me help you by suggesting a sleep specialist etc.. It was Murray's duty to help his patient find a safe method of sleeping. Murray failed at that duty.
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I ask the same question too and if Murray was worried about MJ been a drug addict why did he not have MJ drug test every week to ensure MJ not taking any other drug,
Why did he not recommend a sleep specialist for MJ to work on getting him well?
 
Why did he not recommend a sleep specialist for MJ to work on getting him well?
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he became a sleep specialist once he knew mj was suffering insomnia , his qualifications were two visits to clinic specialised in sleep disorders in Houston, he became an anaesthetist once he heard about propofol and immediately he purchased single dose vials and started his training process on MJ .

He was willing to say anything to be hired regardless of him being fully aware of his inability to do what he was OFFERING to do.
 
Soundmind said:
he became a sleep specialist once he knew mj was suffering insomnia , his qualifications were two visits to clinic specialised in sleep disorders in Houston, he became an anaesthetist once he heard about propofol and immediately he purchased single dose vials and started his training process on MJ .

He was willing to say anything to be hired regardless of him being fully aware of his inability to do what he was OFFERING to do.
Click to expand...

Sadly I think you're right. But I have a question. Was Murray a cardiologist that actually did surgery? if so then that means his patients were using propofol/anesthesia correct? I wonder if Murray sedated his own patients or did he use an anesthesiologist? His answer would be very telling. I hope it's brought up during trial.
 
StacyJ said:
Sadly I think you're right. But I have a question. Was Murray a cardiologist that actually did surgery? if so then that means his patients were using propofol/anesthesia correct? I wonder if Murray sedated his own patients or did he use an anesthesiologist? His answer would be very telling. I hope it's brought up during trial.
Click to expand...

Yes, he has done surgery! I remember hearing that he also had a women patient that died on him during surgery!
 
StacyJ said:
Sadly I think you're right. But I have a question. Was Murray a cardiologist that actually did surgery? if so then that means his patients were using propofol/anesthesia correct? I wonder if Murray sedated his own patients or did he use an anesthesiologist? His answer would be very telling. I hope it's brought up during trial.
Click to expand...

Good question!!!




bluetopez said:
Yes, he has done surgery! I remember hearing that he also had a women patient that died on him during surgery!
Click to expand...

I also remember reading about it. But it is strange that the press did not talk much about it. I do not know, but I guess this was not confirmed and the press has not done a thorough investigation on this. (???) :scratch: :thinking:
 
Murray is/was internist and cardiologist. He is not dumb, just greed.
 
Ashtanga said:
Good question!!!






I also remember reading about it. But it is strange that the press did not talk much about it. I do not know, but I guess this was not confirmed and the press has not done a thorough investigation on this. (???) :scratch: :thinking:
Click to expand...

why would the press talk about it. they only do pro murray
 
elusive moonwalker said:
why would the press talk about it. they only do pro murray
Click to expand...

:yes:


I know. This is the big work of TMZ and others. :bugeyed :puke:

What I meant was that it was not much reported in the press. But I think this story of "the patient women on him that died during surgery" has to do with the father of Murray, I was reminded of that today. I remember I was told that his father was a doctor that a patient died during surgery, I do not remember the story. :scratch:

Anyway, if was a patient of Murray, I think the family of this patient should come and talk about the negligence of Murray.

Well, any information about the Murray is sooooo vague.... :doh: :bugeyed
 
StacyJ said:
I wonder if Murray sedated his own patients or did he use an anesthesiologist? His answer would be very telling. I hope it's brought up during trial.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone normally 'controls' sedation using propofol whilst at the same time carrying out a procedure, because you cannot monitor a patient properly whilst 'operating'..this is why dentists for example would need to bring in a separate anaesthetist (anaesthesiologist). Plus if something goes wrong you need enough qualified people to take effective rescue / resuscitative actions.
 
I don't think Michael had an addiction. Maybe he was becoming dependent on it, cause he was using the drug to sleep. I don't know how much time Murray was injecting Michael with Propofol, but I read he bought about 230 bottles of it.
 
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