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Thread: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

   
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    This thread is indeed about LN, but we have to understand that the game the media plays is to make people think that MJ wasn’t trustworthy. Their portrayal of MJ as a liar opened the door for all those allegations that no rational person would otherwise believe. Once a liar, always a liar. And I agree that this is deeply rooted in racism. There’s a long history of portraying Black people as constantly lying and scheming.
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    look at emmet til story



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by 8701girl View Post
    I think it has to do with the Beatles and their catalogue
    that and whole lot of other stuff.



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    This thread is indeed about LN, but we have to understand that the game the media plays is to make people think that MJ wasn’t trustworthy. Their portrayal of MJ as a liar opened the door for all those allegations that no rational person would otherwise believe. Once a liar, always a liar. And I agree that this is deeply rooted in racism. There’s a long history of portraying Black people as constantly lying and scheming.
    The UK's 'Independent' paper today has an article about the 'Ellen' show, which makes some valid points, one of which is the obvious one that people (audiences) don't like being lied to. They like to think that TV chat presenters are 'like just like us' and 'on our side' as in 'we're all in this together and have a common understanding of things'.

    One thing the article doesn't mention is that the pandemic has made people globally much more acutely aware of 'fake news', in the sense that incorrect news about the virus can literally mean 'life or death' if the wrong advice is taken. I have a feeling that 'media figures' who are shown to be lying to the public will be much less tolerated than previously. Lies are not 'just fun and games' any more.

    Be kind, rewind: Why the tables have turned on Ellen DeGeneres

    ''Actually no, that’s not the truth Ellen,” was the sentence that set it all off. It came from actor Dakota Johnson, who was being interviewed by Ellen DeGeneres in November 2019 and had found herself the butt of one of DeGeneres’s jokes. If you’ve never seen clips of The Ellen DeGeneres Show, this is part and parcel of the hosts’ interview schtick: in her singsong patter, she throws out some awkward comments that make celebrities sweat a tiny bit, all in the spirit of the show. Here, the offhand joke was that Johnson hadn’t invited DeGeneres to her birthday party. But Johnson wasn’t biting.

    ........... Much of the recent outrage around Ellen stems from the fact that people don’t like to feel as though they’re being sold a lie. The very first allegations against DeGeneres weren’t regarding any form of strict misconduct per se – people said that she was, to put it bluntly, mean.

    .............The show’s kind core began to unravel quickly, with criticisms piling on thick and fast. Fans (me included) began a reckoning, not only with DeGeneres as a person but with Ellen as a format, too. These criticisms fit into a much broader cultural crisis around the ethics of popular talk shows, from The Jerry Springer Show to The Jeremy Kyle Show to the Tyra Banks Show, all of which have been retrospectively critiqued for exploiting vulnerable people. The cruelty of The Ellen DeGeneres Show, however, was far subtler. Ellen’s brand of entertainment veered away from the sensationalism of interpersonal conflict and instead opted for “feelgood” antics – but, to some extent, unkindness was still involved.

    “Most of the pranks on Ellen wouldn’t be funny if there wasn’t an audience,” a friend of mine recently said. And these pranks are, by and large, enacted on the unsuspecting public. In a clip viewed over 7 million times, DeGeneres plants a hidden camera in Jennifer Aniston’s dressing room and feeds Aniston lines for a conversation with an unsuspecting bike salesman. DeGeneres makes Aniston look silly – “that’s a really pretty bike… pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty,” Aniston says, as DeGeneres delivers instructions into her earpiece. Aniston also does things that would understandably make the bike salesman feel awkward, like asking him to scratch her back. The clip ends with Aniston being told to ask if he’s hitting on her, to which he replies that he isn’t but that he’d love to take her out to coffee. Suddenly, it’s revealed to the bike salesman that Aniston, multimillionaire of Friends fame, wasn’t actually interested in him, and he’s asked her out in front of millions. Surprise! There’s a live studio audience watching. You’re on The Ellen Show.

    The show has other uncomfortable segments of a similar ilk, like “Ellen’s got your Facebook photos!”, where she unearths your (usually revealing) online pictures, and “Caught on the Ellen shop’s hidden camera!”, where audience members are given the opportunity to steal from the gift shop and then the incriminating footage is played on the big-screen. I remember cringing the first time I saw these segments but not quite knowing how to articulate why. Now, I do. Like many others, I’m asking myself whether such public shaming, with its deceptively jovial, “we’re all in this together” shadow, is actually just a bit cruel.

    Then comes politics. Last year, around the time of Dakota-Johnson’s-birthday-party-gate, DeGeneres came under fire after pictures emerged of her hanging out with George Bush, a former president who actively stood against same-sex marriage. After the backlash, she made a public statement on the show, saying: “I’m friends with George Bush. In fact, I’m friends with a lot of people who don’t share the same beliefs that I have… When I say, ‘Be kind to one another’, I don’t mean only the people who think the same way that you do. I mean be kind to everyone.”

    This sort of apolitical kindness, however, often overlooks discrimination and oppression – and seemed to be part of the culture behind the scenes of Ellen. One former black employee told Buzzfeed that at a work party, one of Ellen’s main writers said, “I’m sorry, I only know the names of the white people who work here.” When the same employee brought up issues of race and representation on the show, she said that her colleagues dubbed her the “PC police”. Another woman who worked there, meanwhile, said that senior staff failed to act after she learned a male colleague was earning double what she was for doing the same job. And this year, the show’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, which left many staff in the dark about their jobs and pay, also points towards a lack of consideration for workers’ rights. It seems absurd that behind the scenes, the makers of Ellen don’t seem to understand that “kindness” also means taking account of things like racism, sexism and working conditions.

    Since the news broke that The Ellen DeGeneres Show is under formal investigation, much speculation has surrounded whether DeGeneres will be replaced as the host, and if so, by whom. But it looks like the problem isn’t just about DeGeneres as an individual, and is instead a systemic one that plagues the whole Ellen business from the top down. There’s also been an attitudinal shift when it comes to daytime TV. Television and viewing habits are constantly evolving, and many things that audiences liked or found comfort in 10 years ago won’t necessarily be deemed likeable or comfortable now. This applies to the awkward pranks and ribbing that is so characteristic of Ellen but also to the ethos we’re sold through our screens – particularly in 2020, that “kindness” without politics isn’t good enough for many viewers.

    If there’s one thing the show’s executives can learn from this, it’s that when a brand (whether that’s a celebrity, a show, or, like Ellen, a blurry mix of the two) makes millions from a particular public image, viewers feel betrayed when that image is revealed to be false. Audiences wanted to believe that “be kind to one another” was a guiding principle on DeGeneres’s set. But in the words of Dakota Johnson, it seems that actually no, that’s not the truth, Ellen.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a9658171.html
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by NatureCriminal7896 View Post
    i didn't say all. i just said Europe. not only Europe but the USA media too. but more of it did and still come from Europe. no hate to anyone from europe. i'm not talking to you but the media/press when it come to michael. it been that way since the late 70's. really sad to know he been though that all his life. but he was strong though.
    You said

    "The Europe media always had a problem with Michael."

    If you didnt mean the whole continent you would have been better saying the names of the countries that you ment Theres alot of countries in europe!

    The medias game was to dehumanize mj. Typical racist lynching. Attack him to the point that when it came to lynching him the gen public didnt care or ask any questions because most had already been brainwashed.

    Theres a long list.
    Bleached skin,surgeries to be white.married white women cause he hated his race. Didnt father his own children and got "white" kids cause he wanted to be white. Was a weirdo.A germ freak.lived beyond his means greedy,ego riddled. If you degumanize someone to the point of them not been seen as a human being with feelings etc its so much easier to destroy them. Ask 1930's germany.
    Last edited by elusive moonwalker; 07-08-2020 at 12:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by elusive moonwalker View Post
    Not really. The british media is run by middle class public scool boys. The establishment, as with most things in the uk its who you know not what you know. Jobs for the boys! Mj didnt conform to what they wanted him to be. Now living in mainland europe there is a mark difference to the way mj is treated here compaired to the uk press.
    It will be interesting to see what female (middle class) opinion columnists who were so quick to condemn the (innocent) MJ in British newspapers will make of today's story about former Labour MP Eric Joyce. He's the long time (but not married) partner of a well known ('Sunday Times') female journalist. Joyce has previously tweeted in support of Hadley Freeman's book (not about MJ)- which illustrates a certain 'supportive network' between these people.

    Ex-Labour MP Eric Joyce gets suspended jail sentence over child abuse image
    Former MP sentenced at Ipswich crown court to eight months in prison suspended for two years

    The former Labour MP Eric Joyce has been handed a suspended sentence after admitting to making an indecent image of a child.

    The 59-year-old ex-army major, who served as MP for Falkirk for more than a decade, was given an eight-month sentence, suspended for two years, and also ordered to complete 150 hours of unpaid work.

    The ex-shadow minister had a 51-second film on a device depicting “penetrative sexual abuse of very young children”.

    Joyce, of Worlingworth, Suffolk, who was on bail after being arrested in 2018, had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing at Ipswich crown court to the offence, which took place between August 2013 and November 2018. Joyce was ordered to sign the sex offender register after his admission.

    Edis also sentenced Joyce to a sexual harm prevention order, lasting until further order of the court. The ex-MP was also given an 18-day rehabilitation activity requirement and ordered to pay prosecution costs of £1,800.

    At an earlier court hearing in July, Judge Emma Peters warned Joyce that the offence crossed the custody threshold. She said the film, found on a device, “depicts a number of children”. “Some are quite young, one is said to be 12 months old,” she said. “Clearly a category A movie.”

    She explained that Joyce, who appeared at court in person, “says he accesses it via an email which he says was a spam email”. The judge added: “At the time he was drinking heavily and he has now undergone work with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and a psychotherapist.”

    Joyce served as shadow minister for Northern Ireland from June until November 2010 before resigning from the post after being banned from driving for a year when he admitted failing to provide a breath test.

    Joyce left Labour to serve as independent MP in 2012, before stepping down before the 2015 general election. He spent 21 years in the army, rising to the rank of major.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ld-abuse-image

    There's a certain amount of Twitter chat about it eg:
    'I'd like to know why his (partner) is keeping quiet. Bloody hope she's not standing by him.'

    'Ah so that's the reason for Twitter silence. One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems.'
    Last edited by myosotis; 07-08-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Another stop on the karma train. Choo chooo.



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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by myosotis View Post
    Leaving Neverland took a court case and showed only one side of it- and was rewarded by media institutions for doing so.

    Reed has already said that LN was 'greatly helped' by Oprah's backing. Celebs like Ellen subsequently piled in to support LN's one-sided stance, without ever mentioning the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', or that LN was subsequently shown to include outright lies.

    Celebs who are prepared to condemn anyone (especially) an innocent person (whether dead or alive) without due process of law are propagating a culture of media- led witch-hunts for clicks (money) and popular ('me too') support.

    Their stories of subsequent falls from grace only serve to illustrate that those who 'live by the sword, can die by the sword' ie they are not immune to being equally condemned without due process on the basis of one-sided media stories. It is hopefully a life lesson- treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.
    And it still can be a divine for MJ. It is a way that is being done to show how full of it those who are quick to judge the innocent can be and find themselves being prejudge or being expose. It is no fun when the rabbit turn the gun on them
    Last edited by terrell; 07-08-2020 at 06:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Quote Originally Posted by myosotis View Post
    It will be interesting to see what female (middle class) opinion columnists who were so quick to condemn the (innocent) MJ in British newspapers will make of today's story about former Labour MP Eric Joyce. He's the long time (but not married) partner of a well known ('Sunday Times') female journalist. Joyce has previously tweeted in support of Hadley Freeman's book (not about MJ)- which illustrates a certain 'supportive network' between these people.

    Ex-Labour MP Eric Joyce gets suspended jail sentence over child abuse image
    Former MP sentenced at Ipswich crown court to eight months in prison suspended for two years

    The former Labour MP Eric Joyce has been handed a suspended sentence after admitting to making an indecent image of a child.

    The 59-year-old ex-army major, who served as MP for Falkirk for more than a decade, was given an eight-month sentence, suspended for two years, and also ordered to complete 150 hours of unpaid work.

    The ex-shadow minister had a 51-second film on a device depicting “penetrative sexual abuse of very young children”.

    Joyce, of Worlingworth, Suffolk, who was on bail after being arrested in 2018, had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing at Ipswich crown court to the offence, which took place between August 2013 and November 2018. Joyce was ordered to sign the sex offender register after his admission.

    Edis also sentenced Joyce to a sexual harm prevention order, lasting until further order of the court. The ex-MP was also given an 18-day rehabilitation activity requirement and ordered to pay prosecution costs of £1,800.

    At an earlier court hearing in July, Judge Emma Peters warned Joyce that the offence crossed the custody threshold. She said the film, found on a device, “depicts a number of children”. “Some are quite young, one is said to be 12 months old,” she said. “Clearly a category A movie.”

    She explained that Joyce, who appeared at court in person, “says he accesses it via an email which he says was a spam email”. The judge added: “At the time he was drinking heavily and he has now undergone work with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and a psychotherapist.”

    Joyce served as shadow minister for Northern Ireland from June until November 2010 before resigning from the post after being banned from driving for a year when he admitted failing to provide a breath test.

    Joyce left Labour to serve as independent MP in 2012, before stepping down before the 2015 general election. He spent 21 years in the army, rising to the rank of major.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ld-abuse-image

    There's a certain amount of Twitter chat about it eg:
    'I'd like to know why his (partner) is keeping quiet. Bloody hope she's not standing by him.'

    'Ah so that's the reason for Twitter silence. One rule for them and another for the rest of us it seems.'
    Very intresting. I didbt know about his wife. And a suspended sentence!! Says it all

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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]


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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]


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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Sweet justice for Michael while those against him are getting burned for it. HA! Sweet, sweet justice.
    SUPPORTER/FAN of MICHAEL JACKSON & NARUHINA

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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    From today: Birds of a feather.... (Kravitz and HBO)



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And with regard to Ellen (hmmmm) :

    Ellen DeGeneres TV show to make workplace changes after probe of culture

    ........“I’m also learning that people who work with me and for me are speaking on my behalf and misrepresenting who I am and that has to stop,” she added.

    She said she was glad that her production team was “finally having conversations about fairness and justice. We all have to be more mindful about the way our words and actions affect others.”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN24V3UH
    Last edited by myosotis; 09-08-2020 at 02:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

    Another journalist - Maureen Dowd- who supported LN being dragged on twitter today (for other reasons), this time by no less than H Clinton:

    It’s hard to fathom, but it has been 36 years since a man and a woman ran together on the Democratic party ticket, writes @MaureenDowd (NY Times Opinion)
    Hillary Clinton@HillaryClinton
    Either @TimKaine and I had a very vivid shared hallucination four years ago or Maureen had too much pot brownie before writing her column again.
    with some nice twitter follow up comments like these:
    I want to thank @HillaryClinton for her tweet about Maureen Dowd. Seeing Secretary Clinton give that shark-jumping old hack the skewering she richly deserved gave me the jolt of energy I needed to shake off my isolation funk and get out of bed.
    and
    We need term limits for journalists
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What did Dowd say about LN? She wrote a NY Times Opinion piece called 'The King of Pop and Perversion' published on 16 Feb 2019, and also did an interview on 22nd Feb 2019 referring to her 'friend Maureen Orth at Vanity Fair'. From the interview :

    It’s interesting because my friend Maureen Orth did some groundbreaking stories on Michael Jackson.

    She did. At Vanity Fair.

    Vanity Fair 20 years ago. And she would tell me at the time about the vicious reaction of Michael Jackson fans, and she’d say it would be worse the next day because the ones from Europe weighed in, you were really in trouble.
    https://www.vox.com/2019/2/22/182354...e-kara-swisher

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/o...neverland.html
    Last edited by myosotis; 09-08-2020 at 02:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland" [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]


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