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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love is magical said:
I agreed with you. The album actually performed well enough for Sony and the Estate. Selling 2 million copies worldwide with such lukewarm promotional effort is a testament of the strength of the Michael Jackson brand. This 10-song album is economical and makes total business sense. Sony tested the water and saw how the Cascio tracks are accepted. I'm sure more mediocre post-2009 productions will be included in future posthumous releases.

I mentioned in another thread that there is a disconnect between fans' expectation and the Estate's motive. To me, I'd prefer the Estate to safeguard Michael's legacy by putting artistic quality ahead of profitability. Yet, both Sony and the Estate put financial gains atop of their priority lists.

It puzzles me when I see some are blaming fans for the lack of promotion on this album. Isn't it apparent by now that it's exactly what Sony planned to do - maximize profits and minimize investments?
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I have little faith left in any of the estates future decisions. I'm sure they will treat the rest of Michael's unreleased material with similar contempt. I just hope to God they're not going to use any more fake vocal tracks in the future.

They would be foolish to try this again. They got away with it once - a second time will be pushing it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I can't wait until the next album comes out, with more Cascio songs. It's gonna be great.


I'd still like a bit of an explanation as to why these songs still sound incomplete as opposed to the named imposters songs on his own album. Why would they do that?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
Yes.

The idea of somebody hiring a vocal impersonator to fill in the gaps on half-finished songs and then trying to pass it off as a complete piece of work is disgusting and a massive insult to Michael's legacy and to his fans.
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Exactly. I would enjoy the songs much much more if they are straightforward with the fact that these songs are incomplete and X, Y, Z are credited in the LEAD VOCALS.

Instead of including these incomplete songs in the album, they could include these songs (written by Michael Jackson, A, B and C and performed by X, Y and Z) as bonus features.

Of course the value of Michael Jackson songs (written and performed by the one and only Michael Jackson) is much higher than songs written by Michael Jackson, A, B and C and performed by X, Y and Z. Sony would never take this route.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Absolutely nothing incomplete about them. Incomplete would be Michael's version of Fall Again. Or Monkey Business. Or I Like The Way You Love Me.

There's absolutely nothing incomplete about these songs. No mumbled lyrics. No gaps. No repeated verses. NOTHING.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

They are obviously incomplete in the way that Michael would have reworked them, rewritten parts, etc. Just because there's a full set of vocals doesn't make the songs complete.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Absolutely nothing incomplete about them. Incomplete would be Michael's version of Fall Again. Or Monkey Business. Or I Like The Way You Love Me.

There's absolutely nothing incomplete about these songs. No mumbled lyrics. No gaps. No repeated verses. NOTHING.
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I hear you. To me, Hollywood Tonight sounds incomplete.

You can tell I still struggle with myself on what to believe. One thing I'm sure is that I don't hear Michael enough. (MY OPINION)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I can't wait until the next album comes out, with more Cascio songs. It's gonna be great.
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For Michael Jackson's legacy? You're right. It's great to see these amazing works of art stand alongside Billie Jean, Remember The Time and They Don't Care About Us in his discography. That's just what his legacy deserves. Well said.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I actually think some of these Cascio tracks are better than what's on Invincible, and that's my second favorite album. What does that say, samhabib? I think it's just fine for his legacy.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
They are obviously incomplete in the way that Michael would have reworked them, rewritten parts, etc.
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And your evidence for saying this is what exactly?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
They are obviously incomplete in the way that Michael would have reworked them, rewritten parts, etc. Just because there's a full set of vocals doesn't make the songs complete.
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Why do you think they are obviously incomplete? How about Hollywood Tonight and Another Day?

In terms of the song structure, both HT and AD have repeated verses and choruses and no bridge. It's obvious that Michael didn't complete recording the songs.

The Cascio tracks, on the other hand, sound more complete than HT and AD.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
I actually think some of these Cascio tracks are better than what's on Invincible, and that's my second favorite album. What does that say, samhabib? I think it's just fine for his legacy.
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I think it's tantamount to watching a bunch of vultures pick at his corpse. What does that say?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
And your evidence for saying this is what exactly?
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Because it's been said a hundred times that these are demos from the Cascio basement? Is it not obvious that they're incomplete? What about all the little background noises? What about the processing, manipulation, autotuning? They are obviously incomplete, wow!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

How can they be demos from the basement when they were sold as a cappellas? Demo a cappellas not being completed? Nothing makes sense. There are NO autotune on the tracks, only ending on BN. Manipulation? Where?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
Because it's been said a hundred times that these are demos from the Cascio basement? Is it not obvious that they're incomplete? What about all the little background noises? What about the processing, manipulation, autotuning? They are obviously incomplete, wow!
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Oh yes, because the Cascios told you. Forgive me for not believing them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@Pentum

Er... Just release the vocals? I'd imagine releasing an a capella, regardless of whether it's a demo or not, is not that hard to do, especially in a studio.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Pentum said:
How can they be demos from the basement when they were sold as a cappellas? Demo a cappellas not being completed? Nothing makes sense. There are NO autotune on the tracks, only ending on BN. Manipulation? Where?
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Demo acapellas makes complete sense.

And yes, there is autotune on Keep Your Head Up, Stay, and Breaking News at least! I can hear chops and processing all over them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Do you know what auto tune is?

Again, I do not believe the a cappellas are demos. There are no signs of them being demos other than "low quality" which anyone can make using any software.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
I actually think some of these Cascio tracks are better than what's on Invincible, and that's my second favorite album. What does that say, samhabib? I think it's just fine for his legacy.
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Each to his own.

Let's not compare a specific track to a whole album. While one might argue Privacy is the weakest track on Invincible. But still, the vocal delivery of Privacy is way better than any one of the Cascio tracks. Also, there are masterpiece like Speechless, Butterflies, Whatever Happens, Threatened on Invincible.

I'd say Invincible is a superior album just because of the above four songs I mentioned (MY OPINION).

I just wanna say anything that Michael Jackson worked on and approved himself is way better than the post-2009 productions. Michael Jackson was the producer of his producers.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Yes, I know what autotune is. Listen to I Like The Way and Stay. I'm a producer. I have heard lots of tracks before they were autotuned and after.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Could you point out to me what part in KYHU you say is auto tuned?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@Pentum - I know this is a funny question but can you define "demos" versus "finished tracks" to me. I want to understand what you mean by them
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@Pentum: Sure, I think the first verse has autotune/pitch correcting software used, and throughout the song in places. Personally, I feel that most of the album has been tweaked in this way, so it sounds appropriate for release.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I mean songs where you can tell the singer isn't really trying his best in many parts of the songs. Like the Dangerous demos (ITC, KTF, etc). A person unsure what to sing, like In The Back. Maybe some mumbling here and there.

The songs to me sounds like they were fully completed. Listen to All I Need - what parts in this song says "this is a demo"? None.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Pentum said:
The songs to me sounds like they were fully completed. Listen to All I Need - what parts in this song says "this is a demo"? None.
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Maybe it was just about finished, or practically finished?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
Maybe it was just about finished, or practically finished?
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But, all along, some are saying the vocals are bad because Michael was not singing full out because they are demos.

Isn't it contradictory to suggest that the demos are practically complete, but the vocals are bad becase the demos are in rough stage?

So, what is it? Nearly complete demos? Or, rough demos at the beginning stage?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I'd like to say that Michael wasn't actively and professionally recording during that time i.e. not in a studio everyday hoping that the next vocal will make it onto an album. He was at a friend's house. He was having fun, messing around. These songs in their original state weren't meant to be released. They would've been more polished, both in instrumentation and vocals, in London...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@love is magical: I think they're demo recordings, nearing the completed state. In that Earth Song demo, he's not singing 'all out' like in the final recording. He's not even screaming it at all.

Of course, Michael would have rerecorded the vocal to perfection, but who knows if he was even going to revisit them or was just going to save them for his insane vault of beautiful music he wasn't sharing while he was alive.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
@love is magical: I think they're demo recordings, nearing the completed state. In that Earth Song demo, he's not singing 'all out' like in the final recording. He's not even screaming it at all.

Of course, Michael would have rerecorded the vocal to perfection, but who knows if he was even going to revisit them or was just going to save them for his insane vault of beautiful music he wasn't sharing while he was alive.
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In the Earth Song demo, even Michael was not singing "all out"; yet, his voice was strong and sounded unmistakenly the beautiful distinctive Michael Jackson voice.

We all heard demos of In the Back, We've Had Enough, Beautiful Girl and Fall Again. All of these demos are not as complete as the Cascio demos. All of these demos consist of the typical Michael's mumbling, humming and incomplete lyrics; yet, the vocals are strong and sounded unmistakenly Michael Jackson.

No one has yet to provide a satisfactory explanation on why Michael sounded different only during the Cascio recording sessions.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You don't think the fact that the trials had just ended mid-2005 and he had been hospitalized several times, had serious back problems, was spending more time than ever with his children, was out of the country, etc. affected his voice whatsoever, 2007 being not even two years after all of that?

Michael was very strong, but he was also fragile and went through times where he just plain wasn't fit, physically, and that will affect your singing voice. You can't compare some demo from the 80's or 90's to 2007, really, after a recording career from the late 60's-now he could have been so exhausted after EVERYTHING that had been happening in his life, maybe it was taking a while to get his rhythm completely back?

Honestly, it doesn't sound far from his normal self. It seems like these doubters are just waiting for him to sound bad or different and then just all out say it's fake, then point out where Jason Malachi sounds like that, too, and say they're the same, when there are tons of other parts that sound nothing like Jason.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ But when you listen to him in TII in 2009, sounds like classic Michael Jackson to me...Human Nature and IJCSLY are among some of the best live vocal performances I've ever heard from him...And Hold My Hand was recorded in 2007 as well....
 
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