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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I just really saddens me to think that this whole debacle will just silently fade into the background because there doesn't seem to be much that we can do. These songs will forever taint his legacy and the people responsible for it will be getting away with it, and richer for it, too :(

I honestly think that the only thing that we could possibly do is have these songs examined by a musicologist and get their expert opinion and then take that expert opinion along with the comparisons and alert the media. That seems to be the only thing that we can actually do without going to court which has been told over and over again would be futile :(
 
love is magical said:
The Estate is not completely out of debt yet. The Estate did re-negotiate much better terms (lower interest rate, loan consolidation, etc.) for the outstanding debt last year. It's pretty fair to say the finanical burden of the Estate is much lighter by now.
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OK, thanks for clearing that up! Hopefully with the burden off them slightly, they won't feel the need to completely profit-ize his work as much as they have in the past.

Arky, don't worry. They'll slip up and we'll have what we need. We know something's not right, and as soon as we have evidence of that, we'll make 'em pay!
 
Jesta said:
Arky, don't worry. They'll slip up and we'll have what we need. We know something's not right, and as soon as we have evidence of that, we'll make 'em pay!
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How? When? It's been 8 months...Where are we gonna find evidence?

Wow, I'm pessimistic today lol
 
Arklove said:
How? When? It's been 8 months...Where are we gonna find evidence?

Wow, I'm pessimistic today lol
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Don't worry, I'm oddly optimistic today... And I don't know. Good things come to those who wait, and we've developed amazing levels of patience because of this. They can't have their guard up forever. Someone will accidentally say something they shouldn't eventually. Heck, I'd be surprised if Frank's book didn't say something about the songs that would be at least somewhat contradicting.
 
One thing: the Estate didn't pay a penny for these songs. They were bought directly by Sony Music, which is why it was difficult for the Estate to have them removed. We just need to make sure the 9 remaining songs don't get released. Also, let's remember that Bad 25 has never been officially confirmed by the Estate or Sony, it is just a rumour at this point. The next release will most likely be the Cirque Du Soleil soundtrack, meaning there will then be six releases left: 1: This Is It soundtrack (retrofitted into contract) 2: Vision 3: Michael 4: Cirque Du Soleil Soundtrack. Remember it is only projects with Sony Music that come under that deal. This Is It was with Sony Pictures, the game is with Ubisoft etc.
 
We'll be seeing people misuse and abuse Michael's legacy for a long time. All of the greatest artists have it to happen to them, as it's the world we live in, a lot of corrupt people.

However, like we all know, the truth runs marathons. No doubt, in the next 20-50 years, with technology so increased, do you think we might see these proven fake by new scientific methods and techniques???

I think it's a very huge possibility.

I can't imagine an even more futuristic and musical generation than us falling for these tracks. They will have to find out eventually.
 
When I go to see the Cirque show on November 1st, I'll probably get sick if they play any of the Cascio songs :puke:
 
Arklove said:
I just really saddens me to think that this whole debacle will just silently fade into the background because there doesn't seem to be much that we can do. These songs will forever taint his legacy and the people responsible for it will be getting away with it, and richer for it, too :(

I honestly think that the only thing that we could possibly do is have these songs examined by a musicologist and get their expert opinion and then take that expert opinion along with the comparisons and alert the media. That seems to be the only thing that we can actually do without going to court which has been told over and over again would be futile :(
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And, the frustrating part is that no reputable musicologist will be willing to offer an opinion unless this is a court case. The musicologist is afraid of being sued for defamation.

Also, how many musicologists out there are really qualified to analyse singing voice, provided that most of them work majorly on copyright infringement cases.

I don't think there is much we can do with the songs already released in MICHAEL. I just hope that the Estate would consider the feedbacks from hardcore fans, like us and study the songs more carefully for future releases. Although I said I may not buy any future Michael Jackson album, I long for an album that blows my mind away deep in my heart.
 
Arklove said:
When I go to see the Cirque show on November 1st, I'll probably get sick if they play any of the Cascio songs :puke:
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I am really hoping they wouldn't do that. I honestly don't think they will, though.

I think they're going to stick to his hits, it'll be more of a This Is It styled show. That's what I'm hoping.
 
love is magical said:
And, the frustrating part is that no reputable musicologist will be willing to offer an opinion unless this is a court case. The musicologist is afraid of being sued for defamation.

Also, how many musicologists out there are really qualified to analyse singing voice, provided that most of them work majorly on copyright infringement cases.

I don't think there is much we can do with the songs already released in MICHAEL. I just hope that the Estate would consider the feedbacks from hardcore fans, like us and study the songs more carefully for future releases. Although I said I may not buy any future Michael Jackson album, I long for an album that blows my mind away deep in my heart.
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Yeah, that's true...I forgot about the expert opinion can only be expressed in court. Well, scratch that idea :(

Aniram said:
I am really hoping they wouldn't do that. I honestly don't think they will, though.

I think they're going to stick to his hits, it'll be more of a This Is It styled show. That's what I'm hoping.
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I thought I heard somewhere that some of the songs on the soundtrack would be from the 'Michael' album...Of course, that doesn't mean the Cascio songs, but it doesn't exclude them, either lol...Hopefully, they wouldn't dare. :)
 
Aniram said:
I am really hoping they wouldn't do that. I honestly don't think they will, though.

I think they're going to stick to his hits, it'll be more of a This Is It styled show. That's what I'm hoping.
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Ditto, though I remember Jamie King stating in an interview that they're using unreleased music as well, as a way to surprise the audience. But from what I've seen, the show does seem to be This Is It incarnate. If it comes to London (which I'm hoping for) I'll get tickets right away. Unfortunately I can't go to Canada to see the show :(
 
I wonder if they'll just be using a whole bunch of elements from various demos and stuff while sticking mainly to his hits.

I wouldn't be surprised if like, say, Behind The Mask or Hollywood Tonight show up a little bit, but I think they'll be smart to stay away from the controversial tracks, when many in the audience would feel like vomiting.

And it wouldn't sound very much like Michael among all the other stuff. :lol:

But yeah, I think it'll be This Is It-styled with, like you guys said, a few surprises thrown in. But hopefully no Cascio surprises! :lol:

I can just picture, they all start dancing to Burn 2 Nite, it makes it's premiere there. :lmao:

Sorry, sorry, I'm just kidding!!!

I LOVE the Beatles' LOVE album, though, it was done so well, if there's an album released in that style, of Michael, I will flip out with excitement! And I think it's already basically confirmed. :D
 
I know they never would due to copyright, but I would go insane if they sampled this! (skip to 2:45):


Love that sequence! I've forgotten, has the Cirque album been announced yet?
 

^^ That's a clearer version :)

How long until these Cascio songs are leaked? Also when was STTR recorded and was BOJ '08?
 
I think STTR was around '99, before Invincible, and BOJ was '08, yeah, maybe finished in '09, I don't know.
 
dam2040 said:

^^ That's a clearer version :)

How long until these Cascio songs are leaked? Also when was STTR recorded and was BOJ '08?
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That's a remixed version from the Japanese trailer, and unfortunately it cuts about half the instrumental from the actual game. Plus, the soundtrack doesn't have the beatboxing, so there's no real full and clear music for that part of the game, which is really sad :(
 
Jesta said:
That's a remixed version from the Japanese trailer, and unfortunately it cuts about half the instrumental from the actual game. Plus, the soundtrack doesn't have the beatboxing, so there's no real full and clear music for that part of the game, which is really sad :(
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That's a shame :( I like that version though :)
 
StellaJackson said:
One thing: the Estate didn't pay a penny for these songs. They were bought directly by Sony Music, which is why it was difficult for the Estate to have them removed.
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The thing is, we really don't know for sure who paid for these tracks and how much. Some say Sony, others say the Estate. I still don't know where that 5 million figure came from. It seems more like a rumour to me. Someone said it and we're all repeating it. Also, somehow I don't see Sony releasing anything without the Estate's approval. All we know is that allegedly one of the executors was against the tracks and tried to have them removed. Afterall it was the Estate who released a public statement assuring the songs are authentic.
 
Aniram said:
I think STTR was around '99, before Invincible, and BOJ was '08, yeah, maybe finished in '09, I don't know.
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EXACTLY!!! Thanks Aniram, you sir have just proven for me that they are definately fake. Michael's voice changes the believers say...well it changed back a year later!!
 
Well we knew that Hold My Hand was recorded in 2008, so.... Yeah.
 
Willy said:
Afterall it was the Estate who released a public statement assuring the songs are authentic.
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Yes, without naming the so-called forensic musicologists. Who can trust a statement like that? People need to beware of information attributed to 'the best musicologists in the world'. A musicologist who has done good, solid work would insist that his or her name be attached to that work, even if it's controversial.

It's just yet another red flag that people have just swallowed like it's acceptable.

I'd like to know one reason why they couldn't name these people.
 
Willy said:
The thing is, we really don't know for sure who paid for these tracks and how much. Some say Sony, others say the Estate. I still don't know where that 5 million figure came from. It seems more like a rumour to me. Someone said it and we're all repeating it. Also, somehow I don't see Sony releasing anything without the Estate's approval. All we know is that allegedly one of the executors was against the tracks and tried to have them removed. Afterall it was the Estate who released a public statement assuring the songs are authentic.
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John McClain was the one who was against the tracks, and contacted Thad Nauden (Jason's manager) several weeks before Breaking News was streamed. The key to this whole issue may very well lie in what was said during that conversation. Although it was probably just a denial. Having said that though, I'm fairly certain Nauden knows it is Jason.
 
dam2040 said:
The cascio songs are real.
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And if they don't believe us, we will make them see the light!

SocietyofLight%21Saiou.jpg


... Yeah, excuse the anime references. I might be making a few of 'em.
 
^^ I love season four of GX!! It's sad that it never got dubbed though, and according to the US dub, Jaden's soul was destroyed to make room for the fusion of Yubel and the Supreme King... Wow, it's weird I remember all of that!

@love, I do not, unfortunately.

EDIT: It's apparently "Babel 2" and "Akira" after a Google search.
 
Willy said:
Sadly, at this point it seems that no one is really interested in revealing the truth about these songs. No one except the doubters of course, but even they (we, as I count my self as one of them) are kind of apathetic and helpless. I see no "lets fight back and do something about it" attitude. The rest of the fans have either moved on and is no longer bothered by the controversy and the possibility of fake tracks being released on a MJ album or fully accepted these songs as Michael Jackson's, often putting a spoke in doubters' wheel.
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this all based on the assumption that the songs are fake. if the truth is that the songs are real ,there's nothing to be revealing.

The Jacksons, how naive was it to think that they do nothing about it because of the upcoming trial? Now, that they are planning on making the tribute concert during the very same trial. How silly of us. Futhermore they will probably be seeking Estate's permission for the concert so I see how they don't want to mess with the Estate and therefore don't bring up the fake songs allegations.
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jacksons NEVER did anything about these songs. They just tweeted about it and that's all. they had more opportunities at hand then a regular fan such as the probate court but they never tried to do anything. I know some people were hopeful that they would do something and thought that Murray trial was a factor but it wasn't. Katherine was releasing statements that supported HTWF and giving testimonies, Randy was enjoying their lawsuit against AEG staying live and going forward. There was no action in regards to this debate. It was nothing but a twitter rant. A lot of doubters did ALOT more than the Jacksons about this issue.

The press, they never took the authenticity issue seriously. I guess the idea of an impostor singing on the first posthumous Michael Jackson album was too far-fetched for them. Shame but I still think they can play a part in revealing the truth if only we could interest them in the issue.
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Press didn't take the Jackson's seriously and just a reminder no legit press would print allegations unless there's evidence that can back it up. Think it like defamation - saying a person is a fraud is a defamation and the possible defense is the "truth" - meaning that proving that what you say is the truth. Unless you can come up with such proof do not expect media to make fraud / fake accusations, the max they will do is to report the "controversy" and that's all.

so, here we are, August 8th, nine months after the controversy broke. I really wonder how, when or if the whole thing is going to end. I'm sick of it but I can't let it go. For now it seems that unless something unexpected happens we will be dealing with it for a long time, forever maybe.
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unless a new evidence comes up - such as a lawsuit with proof or any release of any reported proof from Cascio/ Estate / Sony side, this is pretty much how it will end. You'll have controversy and people with differentiated opinions about these songs.

Willy said:
The thing is, we really don't know for sure who paid for these tracks and how much. Some say Sony, others say the Estate. I still don't know where that 5 million figure came from. It seems more like a rumour to me. Someone said it and we're all repeating it. Also, somehow I don't see Sony releasing anything without the Estate's approval. All we know is that allegedly one of the executors was against the tracks and tried to have them removed. Afterall it was the Estate who released a public statement assuring the songs are authentic.
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I too wonder where did those $5 million number came from
 
ivy said:
this all based on the assumption that the songs are fake. if the truth is that the songs are real ,there's nothing to be revealing.



jacksons NEVER did anything about these songs. They just tweeted about it and that's all. they had more opportunities at hand then a regular fan such as the probate court but they never tried to do anything. I know some people were hopeful that they would do something and thought that Murray trial was a factor but it wasn't. Katherine was releasing statements that supported HTWF and giving testimonies, Randy was enjoying their lawsuit against AEG staying live and going forward. There was no action in regards to this debate. It was nothing but a twitter rant. A lot of doubters did ALOT more than the Jacksons about this issue.



Press didn't take the Jackson's seriously and just a reminder no legit press would print allegations unless there's evidence that can back it up. Think it like defamation - saying a person is a fraud is a defamation and the possible defense is the "truth" - meaning that proving that what you say is the truth. Unless you can come up with such proof do not expect media to make fraud / fake accusations, the max they will do is to report the "controversy" and that's all.



unless a new evidence comes up - such as a lawsuit with proof or any release of any reported proof from Cascio/ Estate / Sony side, this is pretty much how it will end. You'll have controversy and people with differentiated opinions about these songs.



I too wonder where did those $5 million number came from
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The press had no problems printing allegations about Michael without any evidence to back it up. Also, it isn't an assumption that the songs are fake. It is an absolute undeniable fact. Jason is the lead vocalist. The songs sound identical to him and not like Michael at all, coupled with motive, a huge number of red flags and the total inability of anyone to provide evidence that Michael had anything to do with these songs. 9 months later and still not one believer can tell us one part of any song that they think sounds like Michael.
 
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