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Michael - The Great Album Debate

KingMikeJ said:
So if you are 100% sure that it is Jason, what what your response be if Teddy released
a) handwritten lyrics
b) video footage of Michael recording

And before you say "these don't exist", I'm saying "What if?" Please give honest answers.
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Totally irrelevant because he never will.
 
StellaJackson said:
Totally irrelevant because he never will.
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This is exactly my point. You can't even give an honest answer. If you are 100% sure and you will never change your mind, why would he release anything?

EDIT: There is someone called "burn2nite" viewing this thread. They joined yesterday and have no posts...
 
i don't think jason malachi sounds like michael. i said that before. however, there are times in his songs where he really can fool people. what i'm trying to say is that when i listen to a full jason malachi song from the first second to last, he can't fool me. but, if you just give me a part of his songs where he got it right, i may be fooled.

let's not focus on jason and re-listen the Cascio tracks, what really get me wodering is the lack of easy flow described by me and ivy earlier. the "walk in the park" easiness in the first verse of RTT is absent in the Cascio tracks. when i listen to monster, i actually feel the vocalist struggled to keep up with the beats. listen to that running to escape it line, i feel the vocalist is rumbling through it.

i totally believe that jason malachi is not good enough to sound like michael jackson. but, can someone tell me whether michael jackson was bad enough to sound like the vocalist in monster or breaking news? the vocals in the cascio tracks are mediocre at best.
 
monster is speed up right? it seems a little rushed.

and if you think cascio songs lack easy flow, what do you think about jason's own songs?
 
KingMikeJ said:
This is exactly my point. You can't even give an honest answer. If you are 100% sure and you will never change your mind, why would he release anything?

EDIT: There is someone called "burn2nite" viewing this thread. They joined yesterday and have no posts...
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That is my honest answer. I'm not going to waste my time thinking about something that will never happen.
 
KingMikeJ said:
This is exactly my point. You can't even give an honest answer. If you are 100% sure and you will never change your mind, why would he release anything?

EDIT: There is someone called "burn2nite" viewing this thread. They joined yesterday and have no posts...
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how about people like me? if you don't mind, i'll answer your questions. if eddie cascio released hand written lyrics and michael singing any one of the 12 songs in his basement studios, then i'll thank him for clarifying the situation. the questions i have in my mind are answered. i'll attribute the vocal difference to studio editing, stacking and processing.

and, you don't make any point. i said it before that one particular member does not represent the whole fanbase. for one fan who won't change his/her mind, there are hundreds more who are willing to listen to eddie and are waiting for him to be forth coming.
 
StellaJackson said:
That is my honest answer. I'm not going to waste my time thinking about something that will never happen.
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Thank you again for proving my point. If some people (not all the doubters) such as Stella are 100% sure it is Jason and will never change their mind, why would Eddie release anything? More people would just harass him again claiming he faked the handwritten lyrics/video footage. I don't blame him for not releasing anything when people are acting like this.
 
We all know Monster is is speed up

The vocals may not match prefectly to the beat becuase when they were recorded...maybe monster sounded different than it sounded like today? it was slower. and chances are the original melody could have been played on piano, Who's to say the drums, guitar, and the "fresh 2010" beats werent added in at that time when MJ recorded the song.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
We all know Monster is is speed up

The vocals may not match prefectly to the beat becuase when they were recorded...maybe monster sounded different than it sounded like today? it was slower. and chances are the original melody could have been played on piano, Who's to say the drums, guitar, and the "fresh 2010" beats werent added in at that time when MJ recorded the song.
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All 12 songs are sped up.
 
KingMikeJ said:
So if you are 100% sure that it is Jason, what what your response be if Teddy released
a) handwritten lyrics
b) video footage of Michael recording

And before you say "these don't exist", I'm saying "What if?" Please give honest answers.
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Then I would change my mind. I wouldn't listen to them much though because I don't rate them as songs
 
Quoting this because it seems to have gotten lost in the discussion, I'd like to see an answer from someone.

ivy;3454356 said:
Pentum lets try something. From Monster. please tell me what lines are pasted over each other. tell me the cuts and where and how they are pasted over

You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes
You can find them when the letter’s bout to fall
He be waiting with his camera on focus

Everywhere you seem to turn
there’s a monster
When you look up in the air there’s a monster
Paparazzi got you scared like a monster, monster, monster

same from kyhu

She's working two jobs, keeping alive,
She works in a restaurant night and day,
She waits her life away,
She wipes her tears away.
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KingMikeJ said:
Thank you again for proving my point. If some people (not all the doubters) such as Stella are 100% sure it is Jason and will never change their mind, why would Eddie release anything? More people would just harass him again claiming he faked the handwritten lyrics/video footage. I don't blame him for not releasing anything when people are acting like this.
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It's not about me changing my mind because I know he won't ever show this stuff as I believe 100% that it doesn't exist. And if he he did, then I don't really think he'd be bothered about what I say on a forum. I doubt he's ever been here. Don't try and put the blame on fans like me for the behaviour of Eddie Cascio.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
We all know Monster is is speed up

The vocals may not match prefectly to the beat becuase when they were recorded...maybe monster sounded different than it sounded like today? it was slower. and chances are the original melody could have been played on piano, Who's to say the drums, guitar, and the "fresh 2010" beats werent added in at that time when MJ recorded the song.
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Good point,what's to say vocals were not changed to fit with the instrumentation they added?
 
ivy said:
first step outside the comparison audios - they are myopic in nature as they only focus on certain parts and certain words.

put jason malachi room 2 breath on play. close your eyes and listen till the end. forget vibrato etc and whether he sounds like michael or not. just pay attention to how he spaces his words. do you hear that he clearly separates his words? such as sometimes - you - need - to - step - outside - the - game.. continue listening the song. does it start to bug you in the end? do you get the feel that the spacing is annoying? finish the song

now play keep your head up. again don't worry about the voice , vibrato etc.. you are listening to the spacing. close your eyes. does it a lot more closely spaced? do you hear the ties the singer does? such as "shecries-s-s-sinside" listen to the end.. do you get that "easy flow" feel?

malachi - let me let go - again spacing.. do you hear the clearly separated words.

do I even have to write monster? it even sounds like it has been sung in one breath - I know it isn't and the faster up is making it feel like that.

listen to any michael jackson songs and you'll see that his words are more closely spaced and even tied to each other. for example he would be saying "ilove-e-you-u-more" like it's one word , that's what I keep calling "flow"

listen to any malachi songs and you'll see that his words are obviously spaced and his singing style sounds like " i - love - you - more" and have a stop and go feeling , lacking flow and seems like struggling

it's a overall feel you get and it's really hard to describe..

I'm hearing different techniques and different ability levels.

edited to add: you can even try justin timberlake's cry me a river and jason's acapella of it on youtube. if you compare jason's version you'll again hear that his words are more spaced then justin's are. and justin has flow and jason doesn't.
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Thanks, Ivy, for your view point...I'll have to carefully listen to the areas you mentioned when I get home from work to see if I can hear what you're hearing...(I doubt it lol)...Just cuz you say you're hearing different ability levels and what not, and I completely disagree...Also, I can't just ignore vibrato, pronunciation, singing style, snorts, etc...They are there....! If you say the comparisons are myopic in nature, well then just taking into consideration the 'flow' that you're speaking of, is sorta ignoring all the other things I've pointed out, no?

But I will take a listen and I appreciate you explaining what you hear :)
 
KingMikeJ said:
Quoting this because it seems to have gotten lost in the discussion, I'd like to see an answer from someone.
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Ok, maybe they are not copy,pasted just sung with a different singer. Not every line would be copy paste.
 
In Monster or any Cascio track
Give me lines where you hear Michael Jackson clearly, I'm yet to find one and the 'mama say' line is SO fake,the way it goes deep :rofl:
 
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Let's pretend this happened for a second. Who knows? Maybe it did happen...

Eddie hears about the controversy surrounding the songs so he signs up (or gets someone else to sign up) at a few fan forums to see what exactly people are saying. He sees a few people saying "I KNOW it is Jason. I will NEVER change my mind". I can understand why he would choose not to release anything. If they will never change their mind, what would be the point of him providing proof? Some people would just say he faked the proof.

Lets also think for a moment maybe he does have video footage of the songs being recorded. What if Michael said to him, "I don't like being filmed while recording, please don't show this footage to anyone". Do you expect Eddie to betray his friend's wishes just to prove something to the fans? I don't.
 
KingMikeJ said:
Do you expect Eddie to betray his friend's wishes just to prove something to the fans? I don't.
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Yes I would given what he has already did.

Would I also be right in saying people who think Cascio songs are real used 2000 watts as an excuse as to why Michael sounds so different?
 
You can't put links to Cascio material here. But for the record, there is not one line in that song that is performed by Michael Jackson. Also why would they change the vocals to fit new instrumentation? Surely you would make the music fit the vocals? Sounds like a bit of an excuse to me.
 
KingMikeJ said:
Let's pretend this happened for a second. Who knows? Maybe it did happen...

Eddie hears about the controversy surrounding the songs so he signs up (or gets someone else to sign up) at a few fan forums to see what exactly people are saying. He sees a few people saying "I KNOW it is Jason. I will NEVER change my mind". I can understand why he would choose not to release anything. If they will never change their mind, what would be the point of him providing proof? Some people would just say he faked the proof.

Lets also think for a moment maybe he does have video footage of the songs being recorded. What if Michael said to him, "I don't like being filmed while recording, please don't show this footage to anyone". Do you expect Eddie to betray his friend's wishes just to prove something to the fans? I don't.
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There are thousands of fans who petitioned against these songs. The suggestion that he wouldn't show proof that could stop allegations of criminal activity against him because of a couple of fans on some forums is ridiculous. He already betrayed Michael. Why does no one question the suggestion that Michael ordered all takes to be destroyed because he was so happy with the songs? But at the same time, we are told they are demos/guide vocals. Then the computer than the songs were saved on was broken. Why do people fall for this?
 
StellaJackson said:
You can't put links to Cascio material here. But for the record, there is not one line in that song that is performed by Michael Jackson. Also why would they change the vocals to fit new instrumentation? Surely you would make the music fit the vocals? Sounds like a bit of an excuse to me.
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Thanks for telling me about the link :) Also, You are right, they surely would have changed the instrumentation to go with the vocals? surely?
 
I just had a thought. All in Your Name was not destroyed,we have seen it. Why was the Cascio stuff deleted then? Same with some studio clips that appear on ebay for plenty of money
 
dam2040 said:
Yes I would given what he has already did.

Would I also be right in saying people who think Cascio songs are real used 2000 watts as an excuse as to why Michael sounds so different?
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Yes, even though 2000 Watts (and Shout for that matter) sounds like Michael. The Cascio tracks don't. It's one excuse after the other.
 
dam2040 said:
I just had a thought. All in Your Name was not destroyed,we have seen it. Why was the Cascio stuff deleted then? Same with some studio clips that appear on ebay for plenty of money
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I don't believe it was really deleted. That's just a lie so that they don't have to show anything that would prove it's Michael. We know it's a lie because they have multiple takes that they worked with in protools.
 
StellaJackson said:
You can't put links to Cascio material here. But for the record, there is not one line in that song that is performed by Michael Jackson. Also why would they change the vocals to fit new instrumentation? Surely you would make the music fit the vocals? Sounds like a bit of an excuse to me.
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don't you think all these speed up, fit the vocals to the new music etc, weakens Jason singing argument? Because Jason is pretty much alive and around and so what's stopping him from recording the songs as they were intended?

so your theory is that they get Jason who cannot mimic Michael properly, record him in a slower pace multiple times, then they go all through these takes cut and paste word by word even removing his spaces, giving him flow and adding breaths etc and also they rewrite the music at that time and modify the vocals such as by making them faster etc to fit the songs.

do you see how some of your arguments are so contradicting?
 
And in all fairness, the whole thing about the song takes being destroyed was put through ONLY by Taryll Jackson. No-one else has supported that claim and there is no evidence to suggest that what he said was true.
 
ivy said:
monster is speed up right? it seems a little rushed.

and if you think cascio songs lack easy flow, what do you think about jason's own songs?
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I think Jason's own songs are very mediocre. I don't like the songwriting neither. The sonic quality of his songs is not up there. Unless there is a drastic improvement in the way his albums are produced, don't count me a fan.

I don't need people to convince me that Jason is not good enough. I actually think he's quite awful. Now, I would like people to convince me that Michael could actually sound so bad in those months in NJ.

I'm not holding Michael to a superhuman level. I know he's imperfect. It's just that I have never ever heard any bad studio recording from him. He's a naturally talented vocalist who received continuous training and with 40 years of studio recording experience. You gave him a microphone, he knew how to work it. Being a good vocalist is woven into his being.

KingMikeJ said:
Let's pretend this happened for a second. Who knows? Maybe it did happen...

Eddie hears about the controversy surrounding the songs so he signs up (or gets someone else to sign up) at a few fan forums to see what exactly people are saying. He sees a few people saying "I KNOW it is Jason. I will NEVER change my mind". I can understand why he would choose not to release anything. If they will never change their mind, what would be the point of him providing proof? Some people would just say he faked the proof.

Lets also think for a moment maybe he does have video footage of the songs being recorded. What if Michael said to him, "I don't like being filmed while recording, please don't show this footage to anyone". Do you expect Eddie to betray his friend's wishes just to prove something to the fans? I don't.
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You deliberately ignored people like me. There are people who stress that they are willing to listen to him. So, people like me do not deserved to be clarified? For the third time, people have strong conviction like Stella, do not represent the whole fanbase. It's foolish to assume that no one will give Eddie's explanation any consideration.

As for Michael did not prefer to be filmed and Eddie is honoring a friend's wish. Do you seriously think Michael was proud of Breaking News the way it was and would have released it? I'm sorry. But, the whole album was not what Michael would have approved. We know it in our hearts. But, we let all our desire to hear "new" music justifies such posthumous releases. Michael's legacy does not depend on new music. If you think the Cascio tracks do nothing to damage Michael's catalog, that's fine. But, the Cascio tracks do nothing to honor Michael's near perfect catalog.
 
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ivy said:
don't you think all these speed up, fit the vocals to the new music etc, weakens Jason singing argument? Because Jason is pretty much alive and around and so what's stopping him from recording the songs as they were intended?

so your theory is that they get Jason who cannot mimic Michael properly, record him in a slower pace multiple times, then they go all through these takes cut and paste word by word even removing his spaces, giving him flow and adding breaths etc and also they rewrite the music at that time and modify the vocals such as by making them faster etc to fit the songs.

do you see how some of your arguments are so contradicting?
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There isn't new music. Just new production. It is the tempo of the entire songs that was increased. Not the vocals.
 
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