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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I just don't know why people are making such a fuss about them knowing that MJ himself wasn't more puritanical. The point being, watching Michael in some videos could be even more shocking to kids than some of us here.
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Yep, and Michael loved the talk :

:ph34r:
 
I don't mind the images at all but it does seem to me that there's still a lot of serious discussion to be had about the Cascio songs and I have a feeling we may be wasting good time when we joke around so often.

Not saying it's bad to joke around here and there but we just can't let this thread turn into a complete joke, I think. Someone comes to see what's going on with the Cascio issue and just get pages and pages of suggestive Michael pictures. "What is this???"

I'm glad we're all normal here and trying to keep it real, though, and I know we've exhausted the topic a lot, but the fact remains that the truth isn't really out there yet and I think most of us still feel it needs to come out.

It's been almost a year now since Breaking News and I think it'd be good to spread the word about what they did with Michael's legacy during the time of the trial and the anniversary and everything. Maybe more people will listen?

BUMPER said something about comparisons are allowed if they're of BN, Monster or KYHU because those are all officially released songs? If they are allowed I think those comparisons should be posted and spread as much as possible because Sony shouldn't be able to do anything about them. Although, it's odd, they took down the "Making of Breaking News" movie which I don't think even had any MJ audio? I'm very confused about that issue... Seems as though it should be allowed yet they take it down regardless if it mentions anything about the songs being fake.

The entire situation is ridiculous. I have told many people about it and they all agree it's very messed up what has been done, but they don't think people care or will pay any attention... I think perhaps too much is going on in the world that everyone is so distracted and it is the perfect opportunity to get cash out of Michael's name. As much as possible as soon as possible. And a lot of people also seem to have this, "Yep, record labels do evil things like that all the time..." Yet they're not going to help spread the truth about it? ... It's so sad to me how these people who supposedly cared so much for Michael and he was such an inspiration are nowhere for him when people are abusing him and his legacy. And they won't even speak up a little bit about it. They need to wake up, in my opinion, it seems like they're not paying attention.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
But kids watching MJ grabbing explicitely his crotch is not suggestive?

MJ kissing L-M Presley both naked in the video is not suggestive?

2000 Watts or In the Closet lyrics are not suggestive?
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That's again apples and oranges. You can't compare art with posting all kinds of nude pics and saying things that are not suggestive, but straight in your face. If I came to this forum to read through threads and they would be plastered with all kinds of nudity and pr0n, I just wouldn't come back. I have an online friend who has little kids. And yes, she doesn't have much time for the internet, but if she spends some time on the net occassionally, she is also watching her kids most of the time, they are in the same room with her and sometimes sit on her lap. Obviously she wouldn't visit any pages with things like the things that have been posted in here, never with her kids around (probably not without them around either, but that's not the point). Now imagine she surfs a forum that is "kids safe" with her children on her lap and opens this thread.

Using common sense (and maybe also reading the rules, if that fails) wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Nobody was turning it into a porn site. My point was that this thread is as "porn" as MJ himself. So let's stop blowing things out of proportions.
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Ok, that's offensive. You can do things as art and with style, or you can do them because you want to look cool.
 
Also I want to mention, I don't think this issue is entirely about Michael, it's about injustice in general and are we going to allow record labels and companies or whoever it is to abuse the good people? It goes beyond Michael to all of society and the world, in my opinion, not only this situation but countless terrible things these major labels have done to artists and fans.
 
Milka said:
That's again apples and oranges. You can't compare art with posting all kinds of nude pics and saying things that are not suggestive, but straight in your face. If I came to this forum to read through threads and they would be plastered with all kinds of nudity and pr0n, I just wouldn't come back. I have an online friend who has little kids. And yes, she doesn't have much time for the internet, but if she spends some time on the net occassionally, she is also watching her kids most of the time, they are in the same room with her and sometimes sit on her lap. Obviously she wouldn't visit any pages with things like the things that have been posted in here, never with her kids around (probably not without them around either, but that's not the point). Now imagine she surfs a forum that is "kids safe" with her children on her lap and opens this thread.

Using common sense (and maybe also reading the rules, if that fails) wouldn't be a bad idea.
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You are talking about comparing apples and oranges, yet you are missing the whole point: there is no porn inhere. Where do you see it? If crotch grabbing and miming to shag a girl in a video is art then you are comparing apples and oranges by calling these pics here porn.
 
Aniram said:
I don't mind the images at all but it does seem to me that there's still a lot of serious discussion to be had about the Cascio songs and I have a feeling we may be wasting good time when we joke around so often.

Not saying it's bad to joke around here and there but we just can't let this thread turn into a complete joke, I think. Someone comes to see what's going on with the Cascio issue and just get pages and pages of suggestive Michael pictures. "What is this???"

I'm glad we're all normal here and trying to keep it real, though, and I know we've exhausted the topic a lot, but the fact remains that the truth isn't really out there yet and I think most of us still feel it needs to come out.

It's been almost a year now since Breaking News and I think it'd be good to spread the word about what they did with Michael's legacy during the time of the trial and the anniversary and everything. Maybe more people will listen?

BUMPER said something about comparisons are allowed if they're of BN, Monster or KYHU because those are all officially released songs? If they are allowed I think those comparisons should be posted and spread as much as possible because Sony shouldn't be able to do anything about them. Although, it's odd, they took down the "Making of Breaking News" movie which I don't think even had any MJ audio? I'm very confused about that issue... Seems as though it should be allowed yet they take it down regardless if it mentions anything about the songs being fake.

The entire situation is ridiculous. I have told many people about it and they all agree it's very messed up what has been done, but they don't think people care or will pay any attention... I think perhaps too much is going on in the world that everyone is so distracted and it is the perfect opportunity to get cash out of Michael's name. As much as possible as soon as possible. And a lot of people also seem to have this, "Yep, record labels do evil things like that all the time..." Yet they're not going to help spread the truth about it? ... It's so sad to me how these people who supposedly cared so much for Michael and he was such an inspiration are nowhere for him when people are abusing him and his legacy. And they won't even speak up a little bit about it. They need to wake up, in my opinion, it seems like they're not paying attention.
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Released stuff are allowed, but the authors have right to request removing their stuff from the site.

By the way, if there were no joking talk inhere this thread would be dead by now.

Also, when I ask some believers to answer questions regarding the authenticity of the trtacks they don't answer. I am still waiting for korgnex to answer my question. Several members have reiterated the question, but he chose to ignore. Fine, nobody complained. It's his right not to answer. I don't see any disrespect of any member in the off topic talk.

If people want an update, they have their keyboards. All they have to do is ask a question and nobody will bite them, on the contrary people will answer them.
 
We aren't allowed to post comparisons and stuff like that here, right? I remember when it was allowed, there were much more discussion.
 
Pentum said:
We aren't allowed to post comparisons and stuff like that here, right? I remember when it was allowed, there were much more discussion.
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We are allowed to post comparisons here of all the officially released material. It is the other forum that forbids everything and ban everyone who doesn't want to be banned and don't ban people who request to be banned.
 
Pentum said:
We aren't allowed to post comparisons and stuff like that here, right? I remember when it was allowed, there were much more discussion.
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Exactly! The one thing that could possibly be considered 'proof' (as we all want proof) isn't even allowed anymore! I think we've done a great job at keeping this thread alive...The massive majority of the thread has been actual debate and Cascio song discussion. We've exhausted every single aspect of this issue. We offset some of the negativity with off topic talk, and it just happens to include sex. It's funny, entertaining and harmless. I don't see the big deal.

As I said before, I'd be more concerned with PPB and some of the negative things said about their family in this exact forum AND it's in public viewing! The controversy thread is not.
 
Arklove said:
Exactly! The one thing that could possibly be considered 'proof' (as we all want proof) isn't even allowed anymore! I think we've done a great job at keeping this thread alive...The massive majority of the thread has been actual debate and Cascio song discussion. We've exhausted every single aspect of this issue. We offset some of the negativity with off topic talk, and it just happens to include sex. It's funny, entertaining and harmless. I don't see the big deal.

As I said before, I'd be more concerned with PPB and some of the negative things said about their family in this exact forum AND it's in public viewing! The controversy thread is not.
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Well "sex" is a big word, it is always done in a suggestive way, otherwise it wouldn't be fun. I don't remember anyone saying openly "I wanna **** you baby."
 
So we can't post comparisons to the newly leaked Cascio songs and such. Sucks.
 
Is someone able to repost Tpi's comparisons of the 3 released tracks? I have them but not on this computer. Let's get them back out again if they are allowed.
 
StellaJackson said:
Is someone able to repost Tpi's comparisons of the 3 released tracks? I have them but not on this computer. Let's get them back out again if they are allowed.
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As long as they contain legally released material they are allowed. What is not allowed is either illegal downloading of released songs or any streaming or downloading of stolen music as well as their tiniest snippets.
 
If anyone was hoping that these people will come to their senses and abandon the Cascio songs, for everyone's sake, then I think that hope is dead now. I really don't know what they are thinking, but apparently they have no problem with these songs and they are not afraid of any consequences whatsoever. On the contrary, it appears that the inclusion of "Monster" and "BN" is to popularize and make people familiar with them. It may be a part of promotion campaign for "Michael". Be prepared for more Cascio crap in the future.

It still amazes me that it's all happening, that we have a Michael Jackson cd on which someone is pretending to be Michael Jackson. It's unreal yet it's true. Who could have predicted all of this, say in 2007 when this Malachi guy poped up, that in 3 years' time Michael would be dead and this guy would be replacing him on his official records. There was that fake, internet "7even" album but no one could have possibly predicted everything thats happened since last November.

You know, when they streamed "Breaking News" my reaction was rather calm, there was no outrage. Of course, I was shaking my head in disbelief when I heard the song but I kinda knew immediately what had happened - The Cascios faked the songs and Sony/Estate was neglect enough to obtain them and stream it as MJ. I was absolutely convinced that it was just a matter of hours/days before everything is solved and the frauds are exposed to the public. I actually thought it was gonna be quite entertaining, just sit and watch the perpetrators being caught red-handed. But nothing like that happened, on the contrary, we got the Estate's statement and the final track listing and you know the rest.

It's absolutely disgusting what they did to Michael but it's not only about him anymore. It baffles me that you can pull off a scam like that, on a global scale and get away with it. Everybody seems to have buried their heads in the sand. And I must say I'm kind of dissapointed with the lack of action from fans/doubters. For example, Isn't it weird that there are tons of forums, blogs and sites about such a nonsense as the death hoax is and there is none (bar fakemichael.com which hasn't been updated in ages)about this fairly important issue? We may not be able to resolve it in court but I feel we haven't done everything we could to help the truth to come out. I really think that the best thing we could do right now is to inform, to spread the word, especially now with the trial on the way when there will be lots and lots of internet/media coverage. We have the whole internet to use but we limit ourselves only to a few mj forums that regular people don't visit. We could organize ourselves into a group, create a site on which the whole sitution we're in would be fairly described and translated into as many languages as possible and then we could spread it on every place on the internet we could think of. Plus, we could email it to the media outlets, investigative journalists around the world. The more people learn about it the bigger chance for the truth to come out. Thats what the Cacios are afraid of when they erase the comparison clips. We just need to find the right domino block and push it and the rest will topple over.
 
On a side note, I'm trying to add a pic in another thread but it says I don't have permssion to post attatchments. Anyone know why that is?
 
Willy said:
If anyone was hoping that these people will come to their senses and abandon the Cascio songs, for everyone's sake, then I think that hope is dead now. I really don't know what they are thinking, but apparently they have no problem with these songs and they are not afraid of any consequences whatsoever. On the contrary, it appears that the inclusion of "Monster" and "BN" is to popularize and make people familiar with them. It may be a part of promotion campaign for "Michael". Be prepared for more Cascio crap in the future.

It still amazes me that it's all happening, that we have a Michael Jackson cd on which someone is pretending to be Michael Jackson. It's unreal yet it's true. Who could have predicted all of this, say in 2007 when this Malachi guy poped up, that in 3 years' time Michael would be dead and this guy would be replacing him on his official records. There was that fake, internet "7even" album but no one could have possibly predicted everything thats happened since last November.

You know, when they streamed "Breaking News" my reaction was rather calm, there was no outrage. Of course, I was shaking my head in disbelief when I heard the song but I kinda knew immediately what had happened - The Cascios faked the songs and Sony/Estate was neglect enough to obtain them and stream it as MJ. I was absolutely convinced that it was just a matter of hours/days before everything is solved and the frauds are exposed to the public. I actually thought it was gonna be quite entertaining, just sit and watch the perpetrators being caught red-handed. But nothing like that happened, on the contrary, we got the Estate's statement and the final track listing and you know the rest.

It's absolutely disgusting what they did to Michael but it's not only about him anymore. It baffles me that you can pull off a scam like that, on a global scale and get away with it. Everybody seems to have buried their heads in the sand. And I must say I'm kind of dissapointed with the lack of action from fans/doubters. For example, Isn't it weird that there are tons of forums, blogs and sites about such a nonsense as the death hoax is and there is none (bar fakemichael.com which hasn't been updated in ages)about this fairly important issue? We may not be able to resolve it in court but I feel we haven't done everything we could to help the truth to come out. I really think that the best thing we could do right now is to inform, to spread the word, especially now with the trial on the way when there will be lots and lots of internet/media coverage. We have the whole internet to use but we limit ourselves only to a few mj forums that regular people don't visit. We could organize ourselves into a group, create a site on which the whole sitution we're in would be fairly described and translated into as many languages as possible and then we could spread it on every place on the internet we could think of. Plus, we could email it to the media outlets, investigative journalists around the world. The more people learn about it the bigger chance for the truth to come out. Thats what the Cacios are afraid of when they erase the comparison clips. We just need to find the right domino block and push it and the rest will topple over.
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I agree with you, but there are two main reasons why it can't work:

first - the fans are divided

second - as long as the Estate considers them genuine fighting against those tracks is just as if we fought against MJ himslef

Without any trace like worktapes etc and thanks to the Estate, yes the Cascio can get away with it. SONY is the least responsible in this case. They paid 250 millions for those tracks! It is "normal" that they protect their investment, any business would do so.
 
Bumper the 250 millions was the 10 project deal with the Estate. 1:TII soundtrack. 2:Vision 3: Michael plus 7 more by 2017. the Cascio tracks were bought seperately by Sony for around a quater of million per track at best estimate. They went straight to Sony with those songs, thus bypassing the Estate.
 
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StellaJackson said:
Bumper the 250 millions was the 10 project deal with the Estate. 1:TII soundtrack. 2:Vision 3: Michael plus 7 more by 2017. the Cascio tracks were bought seperately by Sony for around a quater of million per track at best estimate. They went straight Sony with those songs, thus bypassing the Estate.
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Ok for the amount, but regarding the authenticity, no one can register those songs legally unless the Estate recognizes them as genuine. So the Estate is unavoidable on this matter as far as I know.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Ok for the amount, but regarding the authenticity, no one can register those songs legally unless the Estate recognizes them as genuine. So the Estate is unavoidable on this matter as far as I know.
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But therein lies the catch. They weren't registered until after they were purchased. Sony signed on the dotted line for 12 contemporary MJ songs from a seemingly reliable source without doing their research. I doubt either Sony or the Estate have ever looked into that June 27th listing as even by the albums release, that was all that was registered. And it is impossible that the Cupeta versions could have been included there. I'm certain it was just music and possibly the Porte versions of some songs - at least the ones written before Michael's death and originally recorded by Porte.
 
StellaJackson said:
But therein lies the catch. They weren't registered until after they were purchased. Sony signed on the dotted line for 12 contemporary MJ songs from a seemingly reliable source without doing their research. I doubt either Sony or the Estate have ever looked into that June 27th listing as even by the albums release, that was all that was registered. And it is impossible that the Cupeta versions could have been included there. I'm certain it was just music and possibly the Porte versions of some songs - at least the ones written before Michael's death and originally recorded by Porte.
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I however think that legally it is impossible to bypass the Estate. Imagine the number of imitators that would claim to possess MJ songs. Without the Estate's recognition as genuine songs no song can be registered under MJ's name.

Because of the Estate's lack of vigilance the songs passed as genuine. The Cascios got lucky here and SONY duped.
 
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