Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Grent]

The funny thing is, there a lots of different believers. Some hear MJ throughout. Some hear MJ+Porte mixed. Some think only certain Cascio tracks are fake, but not all of them. Some don't even hear MJ but think they hear a 'heavily processed MJ'.

Of course there are also different doubters. But, at least since the latest leaks, they have one thing in common: it is not Michael Jackson singing in 95% of all 12 Cascio tracks. Many actually - like me - would immediately identify that it is not Michael Jackson at the release but had a hard time believing it really is Jason Malachi, just because they (we) could not accept that possibility (that really would be ridiculous, right?). Well, until we started to really listen to Malachi.

So if believers accuse doubters of wanting to hear Malachi ... well, that might even be the case. But we never wanted to not hear Michael Jackson on several songs from an official Michael Jackson record in the first place. And that is where almost every doubter started initially.

Screw Malachi. It simply is not Michael Jackson.

And to those who really think the family 'started this mess' ... many, including me, laughed at the family at first, because we simply couldn't believe fake songs would ever manage to get on an official Michael Jackson record. Then the shock - they were right.
After the release I remember seeing many posts of apologizing for slandering the family upfront.

It's like twins. The first time you see them, they look the same. The more you see them, the more differences you encounter that you had not seen before. Learn Jackson, learn Malachi. Think about why you fell for several fakes before. Be honest. Accept the unacceptable.


@lucilla:
I believe someone from the estate phoned JM's manager before the release. I think this is everything that is known so far.

 

[StellaJackson]

a quick question, sorry.

But did Sony or the Estate go to investigate JM before the album was finished? is this real or false?

Thad Nauden, who is Jason's manager, was contacted by both John Branca and at least one other person, possibly Howard Weizemann, in October of last year. That was several weeks before Breaking News streamed. He was also contacted by someone from Sony's marketing department shortly after. All this info was obtained from Thad's blog.

Edit: here is the link. There are several entries of interest in there. I encourage people to read it carefully.

http://stagerecordingspublishing.bl...-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=34

 

[Grent]

I think, time is on our side.
Malachi is/was due to release an album in late 2011. That might have been dropped. But maybe we'll hear some of it any time in the future.

MJ probably also recorded more material in 2007, maybe 2006, maybe 2008. We will eventually get our hands on that material. The more we get, the more the Cascio-material is becoming a lonely(, ugly) island and will eventually sink into it's own filth.

I actually feel befouled when I listen to Cascio material.

 

[kreen]

I ask out of all curiosity, just like anytime I hear someone say to me, 'Oh, that sounds like so and so..'...and I'd be like, 'Oh really, where do you hear it, because I don't hear it'....

Simple question.

If I understand correctly, you want me to point out to you parts of the songs that sound especially like MJ to me? I know it is useless, because no matter what I point out, the anti-Cascio people will deny there's any resemblance. I don't have the songs here, but I think Keep Your Head Up, form start to finish, sounds absolutely like MJ. From the « angry », « roaring » part in the middle (is it the bridge?), to the falsetto parts.

Breaking News sounds like MJ to me, but we were surprised at first by the fact the vocals are lower than we expected, and by his use of his own name, in the third person.

Monster sounds like MJ, except the part that goes something like « and they’re running, and they’re running »; maybe MJ’s vocals were so weak on that particular part that they had to fix it.

Anyway, this whole exercise is pointless : I’ve already explained above why such comparisons are futile.

I’ll just restate : the Cascios would have had to be incredibly crazy to come up with the hoax, and incredibly lucky to carry it out, and they’d have to have incredible power over an incredible number of people to keep it secret now. That’s a lot of “incredibles” for a couple of twenty-something kids.

 

[Lucilla]

@lucilla....not sure...I'd have to go back to the original statement...

Thanks

Your English is very comprehensible to me, but I don't know the answer to your question...

Thanks

@lucilla:
I believe someone from the estate phoned JM's manager before the release. I think this is everything that is known so far.

Thanks

Thad Nauden, who is Jason's manager, was contacted by both John Branca and at least one other person, possibly Howard Weizemann, in October of last year. That was several weeks before Breaking News streamed. He was also contacted by someone from Sony's marketing department shortly after. All this info was obtained from Thad's blog.

Edit: here is the link. There are several entries of interest in there. I encourage people to read it carefully.

http://stagerecordingspublishing.bl...-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=34

Thanks a lot

 

[Grent]

I’ll just restate : the Cascios would have had to be incredibly crazy to come up with the hoax, and incredibly lucky to carry it out, and they’d have to have incredible power over an incredible number of people to keep it secret now. That’s a lot of “incredibles” for a couple of twenty-something kids.

I, and I'm not alone, believe it somehow happened.
They produced songs for MJ, had Malachi come to sing them for MJ to envision the songs better. MJ didn't get to record them ... (as if he ever would ... ). Now they thought, what to do with those songs. It just happened. I don't think it was planned beforehand. Maybe they even sent those songs in just to see how they are received. They may also have been suprised.

On the other hand ... why was Friedman so blatantly promoting these songs as "best" and "most complete" ?

 

[StellaJackson]

I, and I'm not alone, believe it somehow happened.
They produced songs for MJ, had Malachi come to sing them for MJ to envision the songs better. MJ didn't get to record them ... (as if he ever would ... ). Now they thought, what to do with those songs. It just happened. I don't think it was planned beforehand. Maybe they even sent those songs in just to see how they are received. They may also have been suprised.[/QUOTE

Personally I believe JM didn't come on to the scene until late 09. I also believe that some songs were not even written until after Michael died. Specifically, after TII movie was out...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

As far as executors goes business relationships does not matter. it doesn't matter if branca worked for him or not, it didn't matter if he was currently working or not. It's all about "who is able" to do that job. Michael could have listed Donald Trump as his executor just because he believed him to be a good businessman.

Did you actually listen to Branca before evoking any random businessman's name. I'll repeat it for you from Branca's mouth :" Michael had a lot of business advisors." In other words, not only one business advisor, not any business advisor, but business advisors who were dealing with Michael. Hence, Branca was not the only candidate there. True, Branca used to be Michael's friend, but Branca either terminated the contract with MJ or they actually both amicably terminated it as Branca stated it himself. It is completely logical that Branca was surprised because he knew many other business advisors were around and because thei rrelationship was not as it used to be. Michael and Branca clearly distanced fom each other (still according to Branca's words).

Did Michael Jackson want Branca to be his executor? Maybe. But is that a logical choice. Not in regards what happened between Branca and Michael: business split up.

Branca's statement just shows that he didn't know if Michael updated his will or not. Because there had been 7 years until the last will. It turns out he didn't update it. End of story.

Nobody disputes whether it was changed or not. I just said Branca got lucky Michael hadn't changed it, 'cuz from the moment Branca went away, he couldn't possibly imagine he would be the one to execute the will. And he's damn right to be surprised, as were all the people who found it out (still from Branca's mouth).

Now, despite the fact that they all knew Michael for decades and that they were surprised to find out who was the executor, you come up and say "no, I'm not surprised, I have a better logic" implying "than all of them".

and just as love is magical said if you look to MJ's plan it's obvious that Branca was put as an executor for his ability to do business deals. He's the guy that managed to fund and release Thriller, get MJ Beatles catalog and got him the deal with highest royalty rates.

Now you are undermining Michael's own abilities of making business decisions. According to Branca Thriller was Michael's idea to inject a million dollar in the video. All Branca did was suggest to release the making of. Beatles and Elvis were Michael's and Branca's joint moves (not only Branca's) and finally Michael selected Branca as the advisor, not Branca Michael. Michael was an excellent businessman and he knew where were the opportunities. If Branca wasn't aound, Michael would have been as successful as he has been. You give Branca too much credit and diminish Michael's genie. The proof of Michael genie is that from the moment Michael hasn't been here any more Branca made the most stupid move in MJ's entire career: release of the Cascio songs! How clever! NOT! With that move he was advizing more SONY than MJ's Estate.

Even after MJ's death he's the guy that made the biggest record deal as well as TII and Cirque deals. Branca is a deal maker and he's good in that regard. and there's nothing illogical to think that Michael would left the top entertainment lawyer for last 10 years as an executor of his estate to make the biggest deals. and I'm asking it again. If not Branca then who? Who do you think would be a better fit?

If there was no Ortega, Branca would be useless regarding This Is It. All other deals like Cirque du Soleil are just logical consequence of MJ's death. Many more opportunities are there as many would want to make some money off Michael's name, including Cirque du Soleil. If not Branca, who else you ask. I cannot answer to that question as I don't know other advisors, but I certainly know that Branca got lucky in all this mess.

Also when you look to his will (Look to his plan. Branca to make the deals, McClain to deliver artistically and Spiegel to manage the money. ) you will see that actually McClain who happens to be his friend from childhood, instrumental in Janet's success and had extensive success for 2 record companies is left in charge of the artistic part of Michael's legacy.

so this blame on Branca when there's another person involved is skewed in my opinion. That album wouldn't and couldn't get released if McClain didn't approve to it.

I haven't said anything else about others. Just about how lucky Branca was not to be crossed out from the will.

 

[StellaJackson]

Kreen - if you think Monster is sung by MJ, then you should listen to Let The Monster Go.

 

[Arklove]

If I understand correctly, you want me to point out to you parts of the songs that sound especially like MJ to me? I know it is useless, because no matter what I point out, the anti-Cascio people will deny there's any resemblance. I don't have the songs here, but I think Keep Your Head Up, form start to finish, sounds absolutely like MJ. From the « angry », « roaring » part in the middle (is it the bridge?), to the falsetto parts.

Breaking News sounds like MJ to me, but we were surprised at first by the fact the vocals are lower than we expected, and by his use of his own name, in the third person.

Monster sounds like MJ, except the part that goes something like « and they’re running, and they’re running »; maybe MJ’s vocals were so weak on that particular part that they had to fix it.

Anyway, this whole exercise is pointless : I’ve already explained above why such comparisons are futile.

I’ll just restate : the Cascios would have had to be incredibly crazy to come up with the hoax, and incredibly lucky to carry it out, and they’d have to have incredible power over an incredible number of people to keep it secret now. That’s a lot of “incredibles” for a couple of twenty-something kids.

The exercise isn't pointless, if you come in here posting, then clearly you want to talk about the issue...You make a lot of assumptions...It seems a lot of believers use this particular excuse as to why they don't want to point out where they hear MJ...But, you did a bit, and thanks for your response...I won't argue with what you hear or don't hear...To me, the whole thing is undebatable.....The thing is, I already know you think the songs sound like MJ, absolutely....I just want to know why...And I'm really not surprised that you can't be more specific...But that's fine

 

[Grent]

Personally I believe JM didn't come on to the scene until late 09. I also believe that some songs were not even written until after Michael died. Specifically, after TII movie was out...

You might be right. However JM working with Cascio before MJs death could explain the "working with MJ very soon" statement made by Malachi anytime before MJs death. The similarities of some Cascio tracks to Malachi's work could be explained by Malachi writing songs for MJ and trying to sneak them in via Cascio.

They might have worked on the fraud later on to improve. But I think it started in an innocent way.

 

[StellaJackson]

I, and I'm not alone, believe it somehow happened.
They produced songs for MJ, had Malachi come to sing them for MJ to envision the songs better. MJ didn't get to record them ... (as if he ever would ... ). Now they thought, what to do with those songs. It just happened. I don't think it was planned beforehand. Maybe they even sent those songs in just to see how they are received. They may also have been suprised.

On the other hand ... why was Friedman so blatantly promoting these songs as "best" and "most complete" ?

Because Friedman was given the exclusive on the songs existence in exchange for his support. It made it believable if Friedman said it because he was the one who broke the original story in 07 about MJ staying there. Look how desparately he tried to get Quincy to say it was MJ in that interview. Pathetic.

 

[kreen]

I think, time is on our side.
Malachi is/was due to release an album in late 2011. That might have been dropped. But maybe we'll hear some of it any time in the future.

MJ probably also recorded more material in 2007, maybe 2006, maybe 2008. We will eventually get our hands on that material. The more we get, the more the Cascio-material is becoming a lonely(, ugly) island and will eventually sink into it's own filth.

I actually feel befouled when I listen to Cascio material.

When you bring Malachi into the equation, the hoax theory becomes even more unbelievable. He’s a part-time singer who works as a security guard or something. The only way it would have made any sense for him to go along with such a risky, crazy endeavour would have been either the publicity he would get, or the money.

He can only get publicity if he admits he’s the impersonator, which he hasn’t done, so that can’t be it.

The other possibility is money. But of course, people around him : his family, friends, wife, his wife’s family, friends and exes -- basically dozens of people – would realize if small-time, amateur singer Jason suddenly became a millionaire, quit his day job and bought a mansion, flush with ill-gotten money from the Cascios. And unless I’m mistaken, that hasn’t happened. In fact, the guy is still trying to release his indie, small-time, no-money CDs on the Internet.

If he made any money from this, someone should tell him.

 

[StellaJackson]

You might be right. However JM working with Cascio before MJs death could explain the "working with MJ very soon" statement made by Malachi anytime before MJs death. The similarities of some Cascio tracks to Malachi's work could mean that Malachi wrote songs for MJ and tried to sneak them in via Cascio.

They might have worked on the fraud later on to improve. But I think it started in an innocent way.

I think those comments from Jason were just him being an arrogant so and so to be honest. He used to come out with all kinds of crap, but I see where you're coming from and it is a possibility that should be considered.

 

[Grent]

When you bring Malachi into the equation, the hoax theory becomes even more unbelievable. He’s a part-time singer who works as a security guard or something. The only way it would have made any sense for him to go along with such a risky, crazy endeavour would have been either the publicity he would get, or the money.

He can only get publicity if he admits he’s the impersonator, which he hasn’t done, so that can’t be it.

The other possibility is money. But of course, people around him : his family, friends, wife, his wife’s family, friends and exes -- basically dozens of people – would realize if small-time, amateur singer Jason suddenly became a millionaire, quit his day job and bought a mansion, flush with ill-gotten money from the Cascios. And unless I’m mistaken, that hasn’t happened. In fact, the guy is still trying to release his indie, small-time, no-money CDs on the Internet.

If he made any money from this, someone should tell him.

You clearly didn't read my other post where I explained that Malachi is not needed upon doubters to be sure that it is not Michael Jackson singing. => http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Album-Debate?p=3504910&viewfull=1#post3504910

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

But those 12 songs DO sound like MJ. Well actually, we haven't heard them all in full, but what I've heard sounds like MJ -- with background vocals often brought to the fore, to cover up for incomplete, imperfect vocals. Of course, the voice on the songs also resembles that of MJ impersonator Malachi, but that says more about his uncanny vocal resemblance than about the possibility an implausible, far-fetched hoax.

If to you those 12 songs are sung by Michael Jackson because you hear Michael Jackson's voice as the lead vocal, then there is no debate. To me it is not Michael Jackson's voice. There is no common ground. It is just as if I said that Barry White sang in "The Manhattans", when it is clearly not Barry White.

 

[Grent]

I think those comments from Jason were just him being an arrogant so and so to be honest. He used to come out with all kinds of crap, but I see where you're coming from and it is a possibility that should be considered.

That's right. He also advertised himself (as a 'stranger') on maxjax. That was pretty lame.
I think we are quite far away from solving the puzzle. Except the fact that the Cascio tracks are horrible fakes and Malachi can be heard on the records.

 

[Grent]

It is just as if I said that Berry White sang in "The Manhattans", when it is clearly not Barry White.

Are you sure? Do you have any videos of Barry not recording for The Manhattans ?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Nobody?
ok, sorry for my english

 

[StellaJackson]

When you bring Malachi into the equation, the hoax theory becomes even more unbelievable. He’s a part-time singer who works as a security guard or something. The only way it would have made any sense for him to go along with such a risky, crazy endeavour would have been either the publicity he would get, or the money.

He can only get publicity if he admits he’s the impersonator, which he hasn’t done, so that can’t be it.

The other possibility is money. But of course, people around him : his family, friends, wife, his wife’s family, friends and exes -- basically dozens of people – would realize if small-time, amateur singer Jason suddenly became a millionaire, quit his day job and bought a mansion, flush with ill-gotten money from the Cascios. And unless I’m mistaken, that hasn’t happened. In fact, the guy is still trying to release his indie, small-time, no-money CDs on the Internet.

If he made any money from this, someone should tell him.

Jason is a cop. He released his Critical album, after numerous delays, just a couple of months before the Michael album came out. In fact, some of his stuff, which had been around for years, wasn't registered with the US copyright office for the first time until only one day after the 'Ason' compilation material was registered by Eddie. Since his website was hacked, he has removed it, along with all his social networking accounts and has made no attempt to defend his position. Even his wife deleted her facebook after the album came out. I could tell you a lot more about Jason but this isn't the place. I doubt he will ever release any more music of his own. He got his wish, which was to "be" Michael. And just because he hasn't bought a mansion doesn't mean he hasn't made good money from Eddie.

 

[Lucilla]

And to those who really think the family 'started this mess' ... many, including me, laughed at the family at first, because we simply couldn't believe fake songs would ever manage to get on an official Michael Jackson record. Then the shock - they were right.
After the release I remember seeing many posts of apologizing for slandering the family upfront.

.

Some believers would rather lose an arm than admit the Jacksons were right :fear:

You are excused

They apparently "investigated", and that's a big word, before the streaming.

you little arrogant

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

If I understand correctly, you want me to point out to you parts of the songs that sound especially like MJ to me? I know it is useless, because no matter what I point out, the anti-Cascio people will deny there's any resemblance. I don't have the songs here, but I think Keep Your Head Up, form start to finish, sounds absolutely like MJ. From the « angry », « roaring » part in the middle (is it the bridge?), to the falsetto parts.

Breaking News sounds like MJ to me, but we were surprised at first by the fact the vocals are lower than we expected, and by his use of his own name, in the third person.

Monster sounds like MJ, except the part that goes something like « and they’re running, and they’re running »; maybe MJ’s vocals were so weak on that particular part that they had to fix it.

Anyway, this whole exercise is pointless : I’ve already explained above why such comparisons are futile.

I’ll just restate : the Cascios would have had to be incredibly crazy to come up with the hoax, and incredibly lucky to carry it out, and they’d have to have incredible power over an incredible number of people to keep it secret now. That’s a lot of “incredibles” for a couple of twenty-something kids.

And I said I can accept some discrepancies, but on 12 songs?! Too many flaws for someone like MJ, sorry.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

yu lidle awogent

Sorry, what did you say? I think it's your English.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Kreen and Grent

Your screen names are like Iran and Iraq, can you change them, it's confusing.

 

[Lucilla]

Sorry, what did you say? I think it's your English.

Well, you'll understand this I think it's universal :flip:

But anyway, thanks for the correction

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Well, you'll understand this I think it's universal :flip:

But anyway, thanks for the correction

You have one finger in the middle of your hand??? Wow! It's amazing

 

[Chamife]

[youtube]M4Sg_A0A16c[/youtube]

A compilation of quotes from Michael.

These quotes and The Cascio songs don't go together, IMO.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

[youtube]M4Sg_A0A16c[/youtube]

A compilation of quotes from Michael.

These quotes and The Cascio songs don't go together, IMO.

With all the copy pastes, surely the Cascios "created" a "Monster"!

 

[Chamife]

With all the copy pastes, surely the Cascios "created" a "Monster"!

I call them the Fi(c)ascio's.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I call them the Fi(c)ascio's.

And the "smartest" business advisor allowed all this.